EPTWhat about not clustering big balls of banelings I think you need to give move command in much bigger distance, let's say in the corner on the map, so they won't cluster.
[G] Baneling Magic Boxes - Page 5
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
What about not clustering big balls of banelings I think you need to give move command in much bigger distance, let's say in the corner on the map, so they won't cluster. | ||
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ktimekiller
United States690 Posts
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
On August 26 2010 13:54 12th_milkshake wrote: Hello new here, i was about to post somethign simlar to this - thought i was all clever and such. but there you go. i was exploring this to slove the emp zealot problem vid below if it adds anything to this. if not i'll go back into my corner. :s I like the vid. It shows just how small the magic box is for ground units. I bet four ultras wouldn't be able to use it effectively. | ||
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Azile
United States339 Posts
On August 26 2010 19:02 ktimekiller wrote: I think we can all agree that this thread degenerated into a retard fight with those who do not seem to understand the concept of the magic box Must be nice to be given the authority to speak for thousands of people eh? Oh wait no, you just gave your opinion and then added "I think we can all agree" before it to make it sound like it's something more than just that: your opinion. As much as I enjoy learning about and using little tweaks like these to play better.. the names that keep being slapped on shit to make it sound more important are getting old. Just seeing someone say "tech-switch" makes me want to punch an infant.. and it probably won't be very long before it's the same way with "magic box" too. Quick someone come up with a technical description for attack move so that can be thrown around in every post too. | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
On August 27 2010 02:59 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: I like the vid. It shows just how small the magic box is for ground units. I bet four ultras wouldn't be able to use it effectively. Just did some testing The box is exactly 6 sensor towers wide and high for ground units, and 7 for air units. So anything that you can fit within a 6x6 sensor tower box, will keep formation as long as you click outside of the virtual rectangle formed by these units. Unlike SC1, the units actually have to fit within the box, and not merely be selected by such a box. In SC2, if a unit is too far out, and part of it falls outside of the box, units will break formation. Larva, buildings, sieged tanks, and so on, any unit that is incapable of executing a move command, will not work for the box in SC2, though a trapped unit does work. mutas that are grouped together with a trapped unit stack significantly better than mutas alone, with a larva, or an overlord. each move command will then cause them to stack, although they unstack rather fast if ever left without command for a couple of seconds or if told to attack something, and not immediatly told to move afterward. | ||
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RyanRushia
United States2748 Posts
good find  | ||
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mytent
United States156 Posts
For e.g., marines vs banelings, marines can be very cost efficient with the right micro, that protects against the AOE damage. But people rarely do this against siege tanks/colossi etc. anywho, just random ramblings. NICE FIND!!! XD | ||
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Xswordy
United Kingdom425 Posts
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Silmakuoppaanikinko
799 Posts
On February 17 2011 08:41 morimacil wrote: Necrophile.Just did some testing The box is exactly 6 sensor towers wide and high for ground units, and 7 for air units. So anything that you can fit within a 6x6 sensor tower box, will keep formation as long as you click outside of the virtual rectangle formed by these units. Unlike SC1, the units actually have to fit within the box, and not merely be selected by such a box. In SC2, if a unit is too far out, and part of it falls outside of the box, units will break formation. Larva, buildings, sieged tanks, and so on, any unit that is incapable of executing a move command, will not work for the box in SC2, though a trapped unit does work. mutas that are grouped together with a trapped unit stack significantly better than mutas alone, with a larva, or an overlord. each move command will then cause them to stack, although they unstack rather fast if ever left without command for a couple of seconds or if told to attack something, and not immediatly told to move afterward. In all honesty, I never ever saw this trick used or heard from it, wonder why it hasn't gotten on, tank splash radius isn't that big and it doesn't do full damage in the entire aoe either, seems like a game-winning manoeuvre to me. | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
And hey, I dont think that its outdated information, or thats its become useless, or irrelevant. If anything, more people should know about it, and use it. That small video demonstrates how much more effective it can be to spread them out. I made that video before doing the research on the size of magic boxes though. Now I believe that the best way to micro banelings, or even zerglings, or marines, or whatever, groups of small units vs siege tanks, would be to first either spread them out manually, or through a patrol command, and then once that is done, to select several small groups, small enough to fit within the 6x6 box, and thus not to break formation, and send all of those small groups separately at the tanks, or wherever you want to send them. This would be superior to patroling them, and then sending them in, because if you select a group too big for the magic box, then they will clump up at least slightly, even if you tell them to go to a location far behind where you want them to actually go. Where as if you were familiar enough with the exact size of a magic box, then you could easily select a group, tell it to go exactly where you want it to go (while remaining in spread out formation), and then do the same with the rest of your units. | ||
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ProtossGirl
England123 Posts
Basically, patrol lings, stop them then run them into tank line, you lose 1 ling per tank instead of 20-50 lings. Also use it for banes, which i guess is very similar and doesn't require an entire novel to discuss :D | ||
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dc302
Australia576 Posts
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Grezzz
United Kingdom78 Posts
One thing to consider is that if you spread out your banelings it stands to reason that their effectiveness against marines will become diminished. Sure, more banelings will survive against the tanks, but the remaining banelings will be spread out and be more likely to arrive at the marines one at a time, making them much easier for marines to focus down rather than one large ball arriving at the same time. | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
The main problem is when your banelings die before reaching the target. Against marines only, spreading them out does limit their potential, but only slightly. Against marines and tanks though, spreading them out greatly increses their effectiveness. Like litteraly, the number of banelings that die before reaching a target can go from 100% of them, to just 1 per tank. Making it really super effective to spread them out. Eachb tank shot kills on average 3-4 banelings, and severely hurts the others when they are clumped together. So if hes got like 3 tanks, and you have 15 banelings, its likely for 60% of your banelings to die before even getting within firing range of the marines if they clump. If you spread them out, then only 3 banelings would die, so then 80% of your banelings would reach firing range of the marines, instead of only 40%. In that scenario, spreading them out means twice the amount of banelings reach firing distance of the marines, so even though they are slightly less effective due to being spread out, its still a whole lot better. Im wondering what the best way would be to train at the size of the SC2 magic box, to be able to instantly select a group of banelings the closest possible to the maximum size allowed by the magic box, and split them appart, from a group of randomly spread out banelings in motion. Is anyone good at making maps with specific functions? Making a map with a ton of banelings rolling around on patrol, where you select a few and order them to move, and the map then tells you at what percentage of the maximum magic box size your box was, or if you went overboard, and then resets, that could really be a super helpful map to practice on, though Id imagine it would be quite a challenge for anyone trying to make it. One other possible method, though way less than optimal, is just to give repeated move commands to a group. If its above the magic box size, it will begin to clump together on the first move command, and eventually, once it clumps enough to fit inside a magix box, then if you have been giving out constant move commands, the newest move command will over ride the old one, no longer be a move command to a group too big for the box, and then they will stop clumping. Anyone from broodwar know how ppl back then trained to incorportate magic box size into their brain, for like blanket storms or whatever? | ||
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