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[D] Why divisions aren't comparable - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
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RivalryRedux
Profile Joined July 2009
United States173 Posts
August 24 2010 18:19 GMT
#61
On August 24 2010 20:22 theSAiNT wrote:

You're agreeing with what I'm saying. Your explanation says that in ABSOLUTE terms, a larger gap in skill leads to a larger gap in points. Therefore, the points should be comparable between divisions.


You don't compare silver points to diamond points because they can have the same or larger skill gaps but their divisions are obviously going to be so much weaker that they're point values aren't directly comparable.

The points are NOT comparable between divisions if the same gap in skill does not always lead to the same gap in points. Which is what the OP is talking about. The OP is saying that in some divisions, having 1000 points is worth more than in other divisions.


That's wrong because a gold player could have the same separation from 99 bronze players that Dayvie has from the rest of his division. You wouldn't consider the gold players 1400 points to be equivalent to dayvie's though..

No it's not. The system was not designed for local competition. Matchmaking is completely independent of your division. It doesn't matter what division you're in when you click 'find match'. Nobody has presented any announcement from Blizzard or evidence otherwise.
Again, this contradicts the OP's conclusions.


I'm pretty sure Rob Pardo used the words "local competition" in his Blizzcon presentation when discussing the division/league system. When I googled it an article said the same thing.


In short, matchmaking will be more friendly to newcomers and pro-gamers alike, featuring leagues that players will automatically be assigned to after playing a few games. Blizzard wants to encourage “local competition” by putting you in your “skill neighborhood” in order to facilitate fun and competitive games


http://www.sc2blog.com/2010/02/09/battle-net-2-0-preview-welcome-to-the-starcraft-2-beta/



No, we have no way of knowing what your opponents MMR is. You assume that it's close to their rating but that's just an assumption, there's no reason to believe that 200 games is enough to stabilize everything. The points you gain or loose is thus irrelevant for the discussion, the only points that we can use are the points that your opponents gained or lost since we can assume that your own MMR didn't change massively between games. If you look at the players that beat you they all had around 500-700 points and gained 12-14 points which is perfectly reasonable. Any small discrepancies are easily explained by the 2 day delay and small changes in your own MMR. The points lost by your opponents also seem reasonable. I'd say everything looks as expected.


You need to tell me how you think points are awarded if I'm going to put anything your saying in to context. I would guess that you think that it's (Your Points vs their MMR) that determines your point gain or loss but I don't know so I'll wait before addressing that.
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
August 24 2010 19:03 GMT
#62

My question is: Looking at diamond divisions with good representation on the Top 200 list, within a division are there cases where the ordering by points is wildly out of whack with the ordering of those same people on the Top 200 list?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
August 24 2010 19:38 GMT
#63
On August 22 2010 02:43 Animostas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 00:05 Alexstrasas wrote:
Btw how come there are different divisions? I mean why not make a single diamond league?


If's sort of a silly thing to help the noobies. When you're judged by with smaller group of people, it isn't as demoralizing.

Think of it like this, is it feels worse to be judged as #30 out of 50 people? Or #300 out of 500?

I don't know if this is true. Having different divisions is probably just a statistical tool that Blizzard is using to get a measure of balance in the game. Probably...
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
August 24 2010 19:55 GMT
#64
The more I think about it the more I think that Blizzard may not be revealing anything about the way it ranks players because doing so would not benefit them. It may make us mad and give us proof that the game is unbalanced.

Perhaps the game has race tiers like in Age of Empires 3.
Quoted From Cyclohexane's Quick Reference Guide
Civilization Tiers – The Power Rating system also rates the civilizations in tiers. When playing a multiplayer game, the civilization used is also rated in that game. All Spanish players, for example, will affect the ranking of the Spanish civilization by winning or losing games. The civilization ranking looks something like this (only two civilizations are used to keep the example simple):
Spanish Tier 3 (level 25+)
Spanish Tier 2 (level 10-24)
British Tier 3
British Tier 2
Spanish Tier 1 (level 0-9)
British Tier 1
This ranking is dynamic and is updating constantly throughout a day, adjusting to game results.
In the example above, Spanish tier 3 (levels 25+) is rated the highest while British tier 1 (levels 0-9) is rated the lowest. A player using a higher ranked civilization who defeats a player using a lower ranked civilization will gain slightly fewer points, and vice versa. The idea being that players that use the civilization that wins the most will be more likely to win the game, and so will earn fewer points.


Head to the sheet on Power Ranking if you want to learn more about how other ladders have worked.
http://allthingsmiscellaneous.110mb.com/index_files/Downloads/Files/HTML copies/AOE3 TWC TAD Quick Reference.htm
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
August 24 2010 20:17 GMT
#65
On August 25 2010 04:55 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
The more I think about it the more I think that Blizzard may not be revealing anything about the way it ranks players because doing so would not benefit them. It may make us mad and give us proof that the game is unbalanced


I think it's more because they view their matchmaking system as a matter of particular competitive advantage vs. other multiplayer RTS games, either in its current state or in terms of where they're hoping to go with it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
Runnit
Profile Joined April 2010
United States31 Posts
August 24 2010 21:15 GMT
#66
Big long first post with a complete lack of understanding about the bonus pool.

The bonus pool is used to try and compensate for lack of games played. It has no bearing on the league, division, or rating.

Someone who plays more will have a smaller pool then one that doesn't play as often.

The points you win or lose will be based on how many points you have in your pool then factoring in the favored.

You need to collect data from people who have 0 pts in their bonus pool to accurate gauge how the points system works.
I see what you did there
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