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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On April 08 2011 12:34 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Ok guys everyone chill out a bit and enjoy this slick dance group Holy shit, that's Genki Sudo! Genki Sudo was a notorious and brilliant MMA fighter know for his flying grappling attacks and taunting his opponents with dance moves. He competed at a vary high level, including the UFC. Check it out: | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On April 08 2011 11:49 Mailing wrote: And what idra is saying is that protoss doesn't have to do this. They have extremely safe openings that work for a large number of builds. They have an extremely simple unit composition that works against just about any zerg composition. The only thing protoss players have to do to reach MC's level is to practice micro and macro mechanics.. Their simple unit composition makes PvP very volatile. You can say that is their 'unsafe' matchup. To be fair, I'm not familiar enough with all the match-ups to say which is 'the worst'. | ||
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Seldon
90 Posts
The attitude (which I find offensive btw) reminds me too much of the worst aspects of religion. Religion traditionally told you to always blame yourself, and never blame the system. When an overworked dark ages peasant had a bad crop some year he would still be screwed over by the king taxes, then a priest would come and tell him that he probably didn't work or pray hard enough to deserve good crops and if for some reason you didn't sin at all, then there's original sin as an universal fall-back. He should also not complain about the king's decisions, because he is, after all, God's chosen; so the problem must be on your side buddy, because God is all seeing and he is regulating everything up there in the sky, even though you don't hear from him. The system is balanced by categorical imperative so blame yourself. And while this attitude may be useful for personal improvement at some level, sometimes you have to get an angry crowd, storm the castle and behead the king, or you are a sucker and have wasted your life. I find it specially offensive when nerds are the ones doing this because I hold them to a higher standard of critical thinking. In my opinion the answer lies somewhere in the middle, I think people should practice moderation, a healthy combination of training and bitching. That is why I can't sympathize with Day9's and Tyler's position at all, because they give shit to Idra for practicing this moderation that I find healthy (he trains a lot -when he is not too frustrated- and he bitches in his relax time -interviews being relax time-, IMHO this is perfect and if everybody did this we would have the same quality in games and Blizzard would patch more drastically, which we need IMHO. Developers are creatures of inertia ("If it ain't broken, don't fix it" is the number one rule of commercial development) and public reaction is the best kind of feedback they have to determine if something is slightly defective or just broken. Personally I'm sure the conformity of some community leads is encouraging Blizzard to patch slower from day one. Some people may find this last statement idiotic but no matter how big and self-sufficient a corporation is, a continuous pat in the back from a huge community has to affect you. | ||
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Skrelt
Netherlands306 Posts
On April 08 2011 14:49 Shen_ wrote: It's funny because I've always also made the religious analogy to Day9's mantra but in other sense. The attitude (which I find offensive btw) reminds me too much of the worst aspects of religion. Religion traditionally told you to always blame yourself, and never blame the system. When an overworked dark ages peasant had a bad crop some year he would still be screwed over by the king taxes, then a priest would come and tell him that he probably didn't work or pray hard enough to deserve good crops and if for some reason you didn't sin at all, then there's original sin as an universal fall-back. He should also not complain about the king's decisions, because he is, after all, God's chosen; so the problem must be on your side buddy, because God is all seeing and he is regulating everything up there in the sky, even though you don't hear from him. The system is balanced by categorical imperative so blame yourself. And while this attitude may be useful for personal improvement at some level, sometimes you have to get an angry crowd, storm the castle and behead the king, or you are a sucker and have wasted your life. I find it specially offensive when nerds are the ones doing this because I hold them to a higher standard of critical thinking. In my opinion the answer lies somewhere in the middle, I think people should practice moderation, a healthy combination of training and bitching. That is why I can't sympathize with Day9's and Tyler's position at all, because they give shit to Idra for practicing this moderation that I find healthy (he trains a lot -when he is not too frustrated- and he bitches in his relax time -interviews being relax time-, IMHO this is perfect and if everybody did this we would have the same quality in games and Blizzard would patch more drastically, which we need IMHO. Developers are creatures of inertia ("If it ain't broken, don't fix it" is the number one rule of commercial development) and public reaction is the best kind of feedback they have to determine if something is slightly defective or just broken. Personally I'm sure the conformity of some community leads is encouraging Blizzard to patch slower from day one. Sound people may find this statement idiotic but no matter how big and and isolated a corporation is, a continuous pat in the back from a huge community has to affect you. "Religion can never reform mankind because religion is slavery." - Robbert Green Ingersoll That said and tyler said we must chill, how you guys doin?? :p | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On April 08 2011 14:52 Skrelt wrote: "Religion can never reform mankind because religion is slavery." - Robbert Green Ingersoll That said and tyler said we must chill, how you guys doin?? :p First the imbalance discussion; now religion? Come on guys. I just found out Genki Sudo started a hot new dance crew. Can't we all just rejoice in that? | ||
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dtz
5834 Posts
They have known IdrA for a very long time now and know that whining comes naturally from him ( and Artosis). A trip down the TL memory lane will show us various threads and arguments that points to this fact. Had it been someone like Morrow or some other cool headed zergs making that argument, pretty sure that they would be happy to entertain it to a certain extent. That said, considering the lifespan of SC2, it's pretty safe to say that many doors remain to be opened ( zvp in bw was imbalanced for years, Terran was the weakest race for the longest time). It is just the fact that there are so much money floating around that people(pros) are hasty to make conclusion and generalization because it affects their livelihood. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On April 08 2011 15:03 dtz wrote: Other than the fact that balance discussions are boring longwinded and sometimes pointless, the fact that tyler and day9 were quite dismissive of IdrA's argument is probably influenced heavily by IdrA's history as well. They have known IdrA for a very long time now and know that whining comes naturally from him ( and Artosis). A trip down the TL memory lane will show us various threads and arguments that points to this fact. Had it been someone like Morrow or some other cool headed zergs making that argument, pretty sure that they would be happy to entertain it to a certain extent. That said, considering the lifespan of SC2, it's pretty safe to say that many doors remain to be opened ( zvp in bw was imbalanced for years, Terran was the weakest race for the longest time). It is just the fact that there are so much money floating around that people(pros) are hasty to make conclusion and generalization because it affects their livelihood. you realize morrow too says zerg is fucking terrible? especially zvp as does just about every other high level zerg | ||
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relyt
United States1073 Posts
On April 08 2011 14:49 Shen_ wrote: It's funny because I've always also made the religious analogy to Day9's mantra but in other sense. The attitude (which I find offensive btw) reminds me too much of the worst aspects of religion. Religion traditionally told you to always blame yourself, and never blame the system. When an overworked dark ages peasant had a bad crop some year he would still be screwed over by the king taxes, then a priest would come and tell him that he probably didn't work or pray hard enough to deserve good crops and if for some reason you didn't sin at all, then there's original sin as an universal fall-back. He should also not complain about the king's decisions, because he is, after all, God's chosen; so the problem must be on your side buddy, because God is all seeing and he is regulating everything up there in the sky, even though you don't hear from him. The system is balanced by categorical imperative so blame yourself. And while this attitude may be useful for personal improvement at some level, sometimes you have to get an angry crowd, storm the castle and behead the king, or you are a sucker and have wasted your life. I find it specially offensive when nerds are the ones doing this because I hold them to a higher standard of critical thinking. In my opinion the answer lies somewhere in the middle, I think people should practice moderation, a healthy combination of training and bitching. That is why I can't sympathize with Day9's and Tyler's position at all, because they give shit to Idra for practicing this moderation that I find healthy (he trains a lot -when he is not too frustrated- and he bitches in his relax time -interviews being relax time-, IMHO this is perfect and if everybody did this we would have the same quality in games and Blizzard would patch more drastically, which we need IMHO. Developers are creatures of inertia ("If it ain't broken, don't fix it" is the number one rule of commercial development) and public reaction is the best kind of feedback they have to determine if something is slightly defective or just broken. Personally I'm sure the conformity of some community leads is encouraging Blizzard to patch slower from day one. Some people may find this last statement idiotic but no matter how big and self-sufficient a corporation is, a continuous pat in the back from a huge community has to affect you. This was posted back on page 646. On March 30 2011 07:53 EvilTeletubby wrote: NEXT POST ABOUT RELIGION GETS A GUARANTEED 2 DAY BAN Back on topic guys. Better keep the religion out of here  . And i agree with Tyler, we should just chill. | ||
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Baffels
United States1486 Posts
On April 08 2011 15:06 IdrA wrote: you realize morrow too says zerg is fucking terrible? especially zvp as does just about every other high level zerg I always wanted to know why Morrow switched, guess he wasn't happy not being broken  Dancing made me smile though  | ||
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relyt
United States1073 Posts
On April 08 2011 15:17 Baffels wrote: I always wanted to know why Morrow switched, guess he wasn't happy not being broken I'm pretty sure he said he switched because zerg fits his playstyle better than terran. | ||
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juicy
Australia145 Posts
On April 08 2011 15:06 IdrA wrote: you realize morrow too says zerg is fucking terrible? especially zvp as does just about every other high level zerg Zerg *is* terrible IdrA. BW and SC2 engines, specifically unit interaction, cannot even be compared. How anyone say "if BW can be perfectly balanced, so can SC2" is beyond me. | ||
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KevinIX
United States2472 Posts
On April 08 2011 12:34 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Ok guys everyone chill out a bit and enjoy this slick dance group + Show Spoiler + this one is actually my favorite: | ||
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BryanSC
United States455 Posts
On April 08 2011 13:54 Hashbaz wrote: Just want to say it's been fantastic having Sean back these past couple of weeks, and at full attention now that his thesis is done. The show was missing something vital without him. Really? Personally I find him to be the one who consistently contributes the least to the show. Perhaps it may feel like he filled a role just because Geoff wasn't there. I'd rather have Idra than Day9 on the show, or at the very least have Idra become a permanent member. | ||
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hadhubhi
30 Posts
On April 08 2011 15:06 IdrA wrote: you realize morrow too says zerg is fucking terrible? especially zvp as does just about every other high level zerg When Artosis interviewed him during the ST house tour, July made similar comments about balance. He basically compared it to being trapped in a well. As a spectator (as a non-pro player, balance doesn't really impact my game), balance is really only interesting to me as a "story" in SC2: the Esport. I'm relatively agnostic about whether imbalance exists or doesn't exist, but it is always fascinating to hear pros talk about it. Even Tyler's comments about the silliness of the discussion or Day[9]'s relative dismissal of the topic are really interesting. I'm not really sure what people expect to hear. Tyler and Day[9] think that talking about balance is dumb. They make that opinion on the show (and here). We listen to the show because we want to hear their opinion on things (or at least I do). What do you want them to do, just sit there and humor Idra? Just let him talk? They don't really care, so don't expect them to fake it. I certainly wouldn't want that in SotG. But like I said, I also like to hear Idra's opinion on things. I can see how he would be personally upset (it's his livelihood, so it is damn important to him). But as an observer, I don't see any real reason to get worked up either way. But back on to important and chill topics! I feel that I should direct the thread to further Genki Sudo related videos. + Show Spoiler + The awesome-ist of the choreographies: and then one in New York http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDOPNLzEFH0&NR=1 It is hilarious to see the reaction of the people in the background as these men in business suits go slow-mo running through. In the Mind Shift video, there's a hilarious scene as they're running through a playground where some of the kids like point and laugh at them. And then all the New Yorkers who try to pretend that there isn't a group of grown men dancing in slow motion in the second video. | ||
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Rayansaki
Portugal1266 Posts
On April 08 2011 02:44 Dommk wrote: Pretty silly to talk about balance, especially after the nomination show today. Kyrix said Protoss is Zergs easiest to beat Race when he was chosen by XXXXXX. Check/Losira both said they preferred to play Protoss over Terran (well Losira said he was going to choose Protoss). John + Doa said that the general census among top Korean Zergs (during the broadcast) is that they would rather play against a Protoss than Terran. If Protoss is "broken" you wouldn't get people like Kyrix, Losira and Check preferring to play against Protoss than Terran.Something over there is changing, time will tell. And even then, protosses kept pilling up to be chosen in the end. 4 protosses and Nestea in the last 5 to be chosen. Meanwhile, all terrans evaporated fast. Why is that? | ||
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dtz
5834 Posts
On April 08 2011 15:06 IdrA wrote: you realize morrow too says zerg is fucking terrible? especially zvp as does just about every other high level zerg I do realize that. I did not comment on whether it was balanced or not. I was merely suggesting the possible reasons why day9 and tyler were reluctant to get into balanced discussion with you in the podcast. That it was more due to your history instead of them thinking your points are not valid. Which is why i said that if it was morrow you said all of your points in the podcast, they might have had different reaction. I didn't say that you are the only zergs who are "whining" | ||
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FortyOzs
189 Posts
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Skrelt
Netherlands306 Posts
On April 08 2011 14:59 Defacer wrote: First the imbalance discussion; now religion? Come on guys. I just found out Genki Sudo started a hot new dance crew. Can't we all just rejoice in that? I did ask how everone whas doing Dancing is cool and stuff but its kinda hard to talk bout imo. Atleast i never talk about cause i just whatch it ^^ | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On April 08 2011 15:45 Rayansaki wrote: And even then, protosses kept pilling up to be chosen in the end. 4 protosses and Nestea in the last 5 to be chosen. Meanwhile, all terrans evaporated fast. Why is that? Because all the Terrans picked Terrans? The Protoss weren't obviously going to pick Protoss, and Kyrix, even though he said Protoss is the easiest to beat race for Zerg, picked Losira. There was a lot of reasoning behind who was picked and why by some players (past drama, won't spoil any of it), and with no early Protoss players being chosen, for some it made no sense to pick a Protoss and have to prepare for 3 different match ups when they could just pick a Terran or Zerg and only prepare for two... If LosirA was at a stage where he was going to pick a Protoss then I'm sure NesTea would have as well. | ||
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thee telescopes
321 Posts
Some times you guys need to remember that we are all one. | ||
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