Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 719

On April 08 2011 12:34 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Ok guys everyone chill out a bit and enjoy this slick dance group

On April 08 2011 11:49 Mailing wrote:


And what idra is saying is that protoss doesn't have to do this. They have extremely safe openings that work for a large number of builds. They have an extremely simple unit composition that works against just about any zerg composition. The only thing protoss players have to do to reach MC's level is to practice micro and macro mechanics..

On April 08 2011 14:49 Shen_ wrote:
It's funny because I've always also made the religious analogy to Day9's mantra but in other sense.

The attitude (which I find offensive btw) reminds me too much of the worst aspects of religion. Religion traditionally told you to always blame yourself, and never blame the system. When an overworked dark ages peasant had a bad crop some year he would still be screwed over by the king taxes, then a priest would come and tell him that he probably didn't work or pray hard enough to deserve good crops and if for some reason you didn't sin at all, then there's original sin as an universal fall-back. He should also not complain about the king's decisions, because he is, after all, God's chosen; so the problem must be on your side buddy, because God is all seeing and he is regulating everything up there in the sky, even though you don't hear from him. The system is balanced by categorical imperative so blame yourself. And while this attitude may be useful for personal improvement at some level, sometimes you have to get an angry crowd, storm the castle and behead the king, or you are a sucker and have wasted your life. I find it specially offensive when nerds are the ones doing this because I hold them to a higher standard of critical thinking.

In my opinion the answer lies somewhere in the middle, I think people should practice moderation, a healthy combination of training and bitching. That is why I can't sympathize with Day9's and Tyler's position at all, because they give shit to Idra for practicing this moderation that I find healthy (he trains a lot -when he is not too frustrated- and he bitches in his relax time -interviews being relax time-, IMHO this is perfect and if everybody did this we would have the same quality in games and Blizzard would patch more drastically, which we need IMHO. Developers are creatures of inertia ("If it ain't broken, don't fix it" is the number one rule of commercial development) and public reaction is the best kind of feedback they have to determine if something is slightly defective or just broken. Personally I'm sure the conformity of some community leads is encouraging Blizzard to patch slower from day one. Sound people may find this statement idiotic but no matter how big and and isolated a corporation is, a continuous pat in the back from a huge community has to affect you.

On April 08 2011 14:52 Skrelt wrote:

"Religion can never reform mankind because religion is slavery." - Robbert Green Ingersoll

That said and tyler said we must chill, how you guys doin?? :p

On April 08 2011 15:03 dtz wrote:
Other than the fact that balance discussions are boring longwinded and sometimes pointless, the fact that tyler and day9 were quite dismissive of IdrA's argument is probably influenced heavily by IdrA's history as well.

They have known IdrA for a very long time now and know that whining comes naturally from him ( and Artosis). A trip down the TL memory lane will show us various threads and arguments that points to this fact. Had it been someone like Morrow or some other cool headed zergs making that argument, pretty sure that they would be happy to entertain it to a certain extent.

That said, considering the lifespan of SC2, it's pretty safe to say that many doors remain to be opened ( zvp in bw was imbalanced for years, Terran was the weakest race for the longest time). It is just the fact that there are so much money floating around that people(pros) are hasty to make conclusion and generalization because it affects their livelihood.

On April 08 2011 14:49 Shen_ wrote:
It's funny because I've always also made the religious analogy to Day9's mantra but in other sense.

The attitude (which I find offensive btw) reminds me too much of the worst aspects of religion. Religion traditionally told you to always blame yourself, and never blame the system. When an overworked dark ages peasant had a bad crop some year he would still be screwed over by the king taxes, then a priest would come and tell him that he probably didn't work or pray hard enough to deserve good crops and if for some reason you didn't sin at all, then there's original sin as an universal fall-back. He should also not complain about the king's decisions, because he is, after all, God's chosen; so the problem must be on your side buddy, because God is all seeing and he is regulating everything up there in the sky, even though you don't hear from him. The system is balanced by categorical imperative so blame yourself. And while this attitude may be useful for personal improvement at some level, sometimes you have to get an angry crowd, storm the castle and behead the king, or you are a sucker and have wasted your life. I find it specially offensive when nerds are the ones doing this because I hold them to a higher standard of critical thinking.

In my opinion the answer lies somewhere in the middle, I think people should practice moderation, a healthy combination of training and bitching. That is why I can't sympathize with Day9's and Tyler's position at all, because they give shit to Idra for practicing this moderation that I find healthy (he trains a lot -when he is not too frustrated- and he bitches in his relax time -interviews being relax time-, IMHO this is perfect and if everybody did this we would have the same quality in games and Blizzard would patch more drastically, which we need IMHO. Developers are creatures of inertia ("If it ain't broken, don't fix it" is the number one rule of commercial development) and public reaction is the best kind of feedback they have to determine if something is slightly defective or just broken. Personally I'm sure the conformity of some community leads is encouraging Blizzard to patch slower from day one. Some people may find this last statement idiotic but no matter how big and self-sufficient a corporation is, a continuous pat in the back from a huge community has to affect you.

On March 30 2011 07:53 EvilTeletubby wrote:

NEXT POST ABOUT RELIGION GETS A GUARANTEED 2 DAY BAN


Back on topic guys.

On April 08 2011 15:06 IdrA wrote:

you realize morrow too says zerg is fucking terrible? especially zvp
as does just about every other high level zerg

On April 08 2011 15:17 Baffels wrote:


I always wanted to know why Morrow switched, guess he wasn't happy not being broken

On April 08 2011 15:06 IdrA wrote:

you realize morrow too says zerg is fucking terrible? especially zvp
as does just about every other high level zerg

On April 08 2011 12:34 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Ok guys everyone chill out a bit and enjoy this slick dance group
+ Show Spoiler +

On April 08 2011 13:54 Hashbaz wrote:
Just want to say it's been fantastic having Sean back these past couple of weeks, and at full attention now that his thesis is done. The show was missing something vital without him.

On April 08 2011 15:06 IdrA wrote:
you realize morrow too says zerg is fucking terrible? especially zvp
as does just about every other high level zerg

On April 08 2011 02:44 Dommk wrote:
Pretty silly to talk about balance, especially after the nomination show today.

Kyrix said Protoss is Zergs easiest to beat Race when he was chosen by XXXXXX. Check/Losira both said they preferred to play Protoss over Terran (well Losira said he was going to choose Protoss). John + Doa said that the general census among top Korean Zergs (during the broadcast) is that they would rather play against a Protoss than Terran.

If Protoss is "broken" you wouldn't get people like Kyrix, Losira and Check preferring to play against Protoss than Terran.Something over there is changing, time will tell.

On April 08 2011 15:06 IdrA wrote:

you realize morrow too says zerg is fucking terrible? especially zvp
as does just about every other high level zerg

On April 08 2011 14:59 Defacer wrote:



First the imbalance discussion; now religion?

Come on guys. I just found out Genki Sudo started a hot new dance crew. Can't we all just rejoice in that?

On April 08 2011 15:45 Rayansaki wrote:


And even then, protosses kept pilling up to be chosen in the end. 4 protosses and Nestea in the last 5 to be chosen. Meanwhile, all terrans evaporated fast. Why is that?