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On November 17 2010 21:51 kojinshugi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2010 21:35 Shakes wrote:I'm not sure whether Painuser was being serious or sitting there with a massive trollface in that banshee/DT discussion. I thought Geoff was going to tell him he was the only person more wrong than Artosis.  Painuser was 100% correct though. What difference does it make economically whether you build a dark shrine for 150/250 over 100 seconds, or research cloak for 200/200 over 110 seconds? What difference does it make whether you build a Starport with a Tech Lab that lets you do this, or if you get a Twilight Council that lets you do this? The ability to research Blink or zealot legs is something you get along the way to your cloaked unit, just like the ability to make Ravens is something you get along the way to your cloaked unit as Terran. Actually, there IS a difference, and it penalizes the Terran. That starport is locked down to a tech lab for 110 seconds, whereas a Dark Shrine warping in doesn't take any production capacity away.
How is that production capacity away from the starport when you can still make those bansees and ravens? And the fact that the banshee can come from anywhere makes you need to prepare for it more than for DT's because you can't just have one cannon at your front and some saved scans in case he drops them in your base.
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On November 17 2010 22:11 Tripal wrote:
How is that production capacity away from the starport when you can still make those bansees and ravens? And the fact that the banshee can come from anywhere makes you need to prepare for it more than for DT's because you can't just have one cannon at your front and some saved scans in case he drops them in your base.
You can't have a reactor on the starport, halving your medivac/viking production.
I don't think DTs are better than Banshees, I'm just saying Geoff was making a ridiculous argument by saying the Dark Shrine is a building whereas Cloak is "just" an upgrade. The fact that the Dark Shrine is a building is actually a benefit production-wise. You can hide it away anywhere on the map, whereas a Terran base with a starport + active tech lab is pretty much a guarantee of cloak being researched. It doesn't impede your production in any way (other than resources spent).
Rushing to Banshee is obviously safer than rushing to DTs, but getting to DTs as part of an overall strategy isn't a huge problem, as long as you plan to get either Blink or Charge or HTs.
On November 17 2010 22:09 Mahavishnu wrote:
...and, it has begun...
What has begun? The discussion over things said on the podcast, in the thread dedicated to the podcast?
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I believe the issue with incontrol dropping out is to do with buffering. His connection can't keep up with the extended periods of talk(upload reliant), and will drop out when his transmit rate can't match his upload speeds
His connection recovers when
a. he stops talking
b. hes dropped out for a period of time (similar to a)
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is it just me or podcasts is downloading 210 B/s rate? >_<
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I feel like protoss in a TvP deffinitely gets punished harder for mistakes. But I don't like how Tyler says the unit compositions for protoss are harder to ''make''? You have an observer so you can ''counter'' the unit composition of the terran player perfectly. Terran doesn't have such intel 100 percent of the time.
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It seems complexitygaming website is down for me...
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On November 17 2010 23:07 AyJay wrote:
It seems complexitygaming website is down for me...
Use the Filefront mirror. Link is a page or two back.
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''Every time a Protoss player goes 2 gate robo...like...1 base, and gets an observer. That's fantastic, that's a great way to open. And then it's just like, I'm gonna expa-*spits out drink* COLOSSUS!!!111!! COLOSSUS!!'
R.O.F.L
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Download is not working currently, been trying 5 minutes :/
Edit - Download started going at 200kb/sec after several mins of waiting
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On November 17 2010 23:08 kojinshugi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2010 23:07 AyJay wrote:
It seems complexitygaming website is down for me... Use the Filefront mirror. Link is a page or two back.
http://www.filefront.com/17524888/SotG - 11.16.10.mp3
That's the link posted on the page for a faster download, as the original link seems to be having trouble at the moment.
Edit: Deleted repetition.
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Just a post here to say thanks for that pod cast. I'm used to it now, even a little addicted i have to say, and it's really fun and entertaining.
I just have one demand here, don't know if it's hard to do or not. As i listen to the podcast usually on my old mp3 reader and can't listen to all the show in one session, it's a real pain to fast forward with that crappy stuff. Would it be possible to separate the file a little ?
I don't think we need chapter and all ( and i don't want to gave you guys more work ) but actually simply separate the cast by 30 min or 1h00 parts would be really great for me. Hope my English's not so bad to make my point clear enough here.
I don't know maybe it's useless too everybody expect me, in that case i'll go without it. ^^
Anyway keep it up guys, thanks again, i'll be listen to the new pod cast now.
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Thanks for the casts! Listened to every one so far...
PS: Rather than calling it "front loaded damage", I call it "Alpha" or "Alpha-Strike" i.e. the first shot by all units, the moment the armies collide...
Where as front loaded damage sounds more like what a reverse-void-ray might be like...
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I'm "only" 85 minutes into the podcast so far, but I just wanted to post that I loved having PainUser on. Putting aside that he's one of my favorite players to cheer for, he seems to "fit" in; he's outgoing and not shy, very willing to jump in the conversation. The kind of qualities that make a fantastic guest. I'd love to have him on again, especially on the "post event" shows.
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On November 18 2010 00:30 mcbrite wrote:
Thanks for the casts! Listened to every one so far...
PS: Rather than calling it "front loaded damage", I call it "Alpha" or "Alpha-Strike" i.e. the first shot by all units, the moment the armies collide...
Where as front loaded damage sounds more like what a reverse-void-ray might be like...
I was just going to post the same thing. Also, alpha strike is one reason why the zealot isn't nearly as good in practice as the stats would lead one to believe - as they don't actually have one.
I thought the whole zealot discussion was quite interesting as a protoss player as I've heard painusers perspective from a lot of zerg/terran players. I do love the zealot and I use them all the time in all matchups but they aren't much more than tanks/lingkillers. They may have extremely high dps on paper but in practice any damage they do is just a bonus.
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I downloaded the complexity link first, and it was 1hr 35 mins, and cuts out while Tyler is speaking. I saw a lot of people saying the complexity link is a bit fucked (would explain why it took 45 minutes to download as well ^^) and got the mirror.
3 hours?! Holy Check. Not that I'm complaining, mind, it's awesome.
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Front loaded damage is used often in WoW theorycrafting. It's a pretty apt term for SC2 as well.
Colossi, siege tanks, blings are front-loaded. If you manage to put them in a position where they deal damage, the hard part is over.
Broodlords/carriers/BCs need to do sustained damage for a period of time. They do a lot of damage but not immediately. Most melee units also count as this because they're limited by how many of them can surround a target.
Middle-of-the-road units like stalkers/mutas/rines scale from sustained damage in small numbers to front-loaded in huge numbers.
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On November 17 2010 23:04 Endorsed wrote:
I feel like protoss in a TvP deffinitely gets punished harder for mistakes. But I don't like how Tyler says the unit compositions for protoss are harder to ''make''? You have an observer so you can ''counter'' the unit composition of the terran player perfectly. Terran doesn't have such intel 100 percent of the time.
Terran doesn't need it. Stim marauders & marines. Later, bring some medivacs and vikings. You've mastered TvP at it's current state. Gg
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On November 17 2010 15:50 voss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2010 15:46 desrow wrote:On November 17 2010 15:18 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On November 17 2010 14:23 Kisra wrote:On November 17 2010 14:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
we are recording now. 2 hours or so + upload time and you got yourself a podcast Don't suppose there's any chance of you remaining in Korea and getting a shot at casting some GSL games? Part of me wanted Tasteless or Artosis to get in purely to open up that avenue - you're an awesome guy to listen to and one of the few people my friends who don't follow SC as much as I do recognise, mostly for being funny, entertaining, and enormous. I wanted to but it didn't work out with the red tape so hopefully in the near future but not this season. Maybe it's because I'm french canadian but... didn't work out with the red tape ??? Anyone wanna explain? Red tape is a way of describing policies and procedures. eg. Anything to happen in the defence force industry takes ages to get past all of the paperwork / reviews / security etc. So iNcontrol meant that because of policies / regulations that gomtv have, he wasn't able to get into casting (probably at such short notice).
Thank you sir
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can you guys please aim for 4 hours next time? 3 hours of Day9, Incontrol and Tyler arguing about extended series et al just doesnt sate my hunger. No troll, no joke..... i want more!!!!!
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I was laughing my ass off at Tyler/Incontrol vs Painuser on Banshee vs DT
Incontrol and Tyler were like "what the fuck...."
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EPT
