On April 25 2012 10:41 mjnbowlgod wrote: MLG was...is and will be better then dreamhacks to come, and speaking of which IPL as well
How do you know this? Oh, that's right, you have no idea and are talking completely out of your ass.
Its pretty common sense actually... if you atually watched the events.........Let me see.... this dreamhack I spent 50 mins inbetween games waiting to see subpar foreighners go at it....meanwhile I had MLG with top notch code S players going at it with insane production with no down time, atually they filled it in with awesome commentary. the dreamhack finals was its saving grace, oh and thank the crowd for the finals.
I liked Dreamhack more than MLG last weekend...sorry or ruining your theory.
you wanna know what it is......its because mlg charged 10$ for there event , they plan on making esports something bigger then it already is, unfortuanatly the price tag rubbed alot of people the wrong way, not everyone is capable of understanding the concept behined it.
Can't tell if you're trying to insult me on purpose or not. I'l let it go and try to explain, bear with me as i'm not too good at articulating what I mean all the time.
So I didn't buy the MLG pass doodad because I didn't think it was a good choice of my money. Dreamhack Eizo was on at the same time and i figured I would end up watching more of that anyway. The simple reason being I enjoy watching Foreigners whenever i can, and any other time I watch the GSL. I don't have the money or time to spend on all these tournaments. So when i see a $10 tournament with 8 invites and then I see a huge lan with a ton of players that happens to be free...you can probably guess by now which one I'm going with. I think a lot of others went the same route.
Everyone has different price ranges and tastes. After all, if we were all the same earth would be pretty boring.
ok...so you couldn't afford the better tournament and that's why you think the free one was better
Like price has anything to do with just about anyone. Going to the cinema here costs me nearly 20$, thats before popcorn and stuff.
Most people just prefer tournaments with atmoshpere and relateable players. For the "pure" Skill-Tournament there is allready the GSL. In the end i just don't see why i would watch this MLG... I can watch GSL every day to get nearly the same over this pretty unique event that Dreamhack Eizo was (i didn't like day 1 much tho, had troubles finding games.. Sunday was pure awesome).
First person view, interaction between top players in korea? 2v2 tournament, its almost like a homestory cup for koreans. Also, you get to watch everyone play everyone, so nobody gets by on the back of one matchup or a lucky draw.
On April 25 2012 12:30 Femari wrote: So to summarize this shitstorm, Nony preferred MLG because he is a fan of the game SC2. People disagreed and said DH was better. Then endless arguing. I think I got this right?
But I think what it comes down to is Nony is a fan of the game first and foremost. While the people who like the live crowd and the storylines are fans of the scene (game+other shit). And I think that's what he's trying to say.
Either way I'm glad a new SOTG is coming soon.
or simply: NonY is fan of SC2, the rest is fan of ESPORTS.
I am here for the Kpop.
This thread is the show. What show? It's a show about nothing.
I wish Starcraft would show more of the korean culture than just Kpop. "What do you mean kochujang", you may ask. Well, I think we need much more exposure of KDRAMA!
"But I only like Starcraft!". Never despair. You can have both!
"But I need my regular dose of Kpop". No problem, this should ease the transition.
"Thanks!" You're welcome.
What drama is that last clip from? That was awesome!
And I think there are tons of KDrama fans in the forums, there are KDrama fans everywhere.
On April 25 2012 16:03 ceaRshaf wrote: In a simpler way to put it, MLG doesn't bring anything new, they just makes it good. DH is getting ESPORTS bigger.
by running a MLG like tournament...
Seriously people, both events were kick ass in their own regard. They were two completely different tournaments.
On April 25 2012 16:03 ceaRshaf wrote: In a simpler way to put it, MLG doesn't bring anything new, they just makes it good. DH is getting ESPORTS bigger.
Hmm, I dunno anything new DH brought besides seeing sase bully and humiliate a 12 year old on stream. Can't say I've ever seen that before.
On April 25 2012 16:03 ceaRshaf wrote: In a simpler way to put it, MLG doesn't bring anything new, they just makes it good. DH is getting ESPORTS bigger.
The Arena is more new and different than anything Dreamhack has ever done..
On April 25 2012 12:30 Femari wrote: So to summarize this shitstorm, Nony preferred MLG because he is a fan of the game SC2. People disagreed and said DH was better. Then endless arguing. I think I got this right?
But I think what it comes down to is Nony is a fan of the game first and foremost. While the people who like the live crowd and the storylines are fans of the scene (game+other shit). And I think that's what he's trying to say.
Either way I'm glad a new SOTG is coming soon.
or simply: NonY is fan of SC2, the rest is fan of ESPORTS.
I am here for the Kpop.
This thread is the show. What show? It's a show about nothing.
I wish Starcraft would show more of the korean culture than just Kpop. "What do you mean kochujang", you may ask. Well, I think we need much more exposure of KDRAMA!
On April 25 2012 12:30 Femari wrote: So to summarize this shitstorm, Nony preferred MLG because he is a fan of the game SC2. People disagreed and said DH was better. Then endless arguing. I think I got this right?
But I think what it comes down to is Nony is a fan of the game first and foremost. While the people who like the live crowd and the storylines are fans of the scene (game+other shit). And I think that's what he's trying to say.
Either way I'm glad a new SOTG is coming soon.
or simply: NonY is fan of SC2, the rest is fan of ESPORTS.
I am here for the Kpop.
This thread is the show. What show? It's a show about nothing.
I wish Starcraft would show more of the korean culture than just Kpop. "What do you mean kochujang", you may ask. Well, I think we need much more exposure of KDRAMA!
Awesome, thanks. The only sageuk I have watched is The Princess' Man and Tree with Deep Roots. Do you recommend it then?
Lol, actually no. The first and the last part of the series was good but the middle part had a tiring love-triangle which ruined the series for me. Did you like The Princess' Man? I must admit I stopped watching that series halfway through, because the love story got really annoying. Some did like it though, so perhaps you are more inclined to like Gye Baek than me. I have heard good things about Tree with Deep Roots, which I will watch in the near future.
Anyway, I wrote this recommendation list recently. Perhaps you will find something interesting: + Show Spoiler +
Jumong - A blend between history and myth. It depicts the rise of the nation Goguryeo (Jumong being the founder). A long, but very, very epic story. Despite being 80 episodes, you never get bored.
Sangdo - A story about the legendary merchant Im Sang-ok. A one-of-a-kind drama. Really well written and the overall message (morale and money) is not condensing but fits the mood of the series.
Joseon X-Files - The best mystery/period drama I have seen. I curse the broadcasters for not putting this on DVD.
Conspiracy in the court - A story about 3 persons who are involved in a fight to change the unfair caste system in late Joseon. Accurate depiction of history and has almost no fluff. Only 8 episodes, but is packed with more stuff than a regular 20 episode period drama. Not easy to watch, but very rewarding.
Iljimae - My favorite fluff series. A lot of nonsense with an excellent Lee Jun-ki.
I remember tylers vlogs talking about how important it was to create stories for the tournament player that we can relate to, i guess it was just fake talk
On April 25 2012 12:30 Femari wrote: So to summarize this shitstorm, Nony preferred MLG because he is a fan of the game SC2. People disagreed and said DH was better. Then endless arguing. I think I got this right?
But I think what it comes down to is Nony is a fan of the game first and foremost. While the people who like the live crowd and the storylines are fans of the scene (game+other shit). And I think that's what he's trying to say.
Either way I'm glad a new SOTG is coming soon.
or simply: NonY is fan of SC2, the rest is fan of ESPORTS.
I am here for the Kpop.
This thread is the show. What show? It's a show about nothing.
I wish Starcraft would show more of the korean culture than just Kpop. "What do you mean kochujang", you may ask. Well, I think we need much more exposure of KDRAMA!
Awesome, thanks. The only sageuk I have watched is The Princess' Man and Tree with Deep Roots. Do you recommend it then?
Lol, actually no. The first and the last part of the series was good but the middle part had a tiring love-triangle which ruined the series for me. Did you like The Princess' Man? I must admit I stopped watching that series halfway through, because the love story got really annoying. Some did like it though, so perhaps you are more inclined to like Gye Baek than me. I have heard good things about Tree with Deep Roots, which I will watch in the near future.
Anyway, I wrote this recommendation list recently. Perhaps you will find something interesting: + Show Spoiler +
Jumong - A blend between history and myth. It depicts the rise of the nation Goguryeo (Jumong being the founder). A long, but very, very epic story. Despite being 80 episodes, you never get bored.
Sangdo - A story about the legendary merchant Im Sang-ok. A one-of-a-kind drama. Really well written and the overall message (morale and money) is not condensing but fits the mood of the series.
Joseon X-Files - The best mystery/period drama I have seen. I curse the broadcasters for not putting this on DVD.
Conspiracy in the court - A story about 3 persons who are involved in a fight to change the unfair caste system in late Joseon. Accurate depiction of history and has almost no fluff. Only 8 episodes, but is packed with more stuff than a regular 20 episode period drama. Not easy to watch, but very rewarding.
Iljimae - My favorite fluff series. A lot of nonsense with an excellent Lee Jun-ki.
I actually loved The Princess' Man, and I liked the romance as well. So maybe I will like Gye Baek!
Joseon X-Files is one of the greatest shows I have ever seen. I agree with you completely on that one.
I think I will watch Conspiracy in the Court, as it is short and I love accurate depictions of history. Thanks for the list.
On April 25 2012 16:03 ceaRshaf wrote: In a simpler way to put it, MLG doesn't bring anything new, they just makes it good. DH is getting ESPORTS bigger.
The Arena is more new and different than anything Dreamhack has ever done..
The one thing MLG had is good players. IPL4 had x10 more than that and has been already forgoten. Why? Because the production value was not that high (casters, crowd, coverage, etc). So no, a tournament doesn't need only good players to make it good. It's like me saying the only good tournament is where miss Spore (or what's her name) is hired as an announcer because I like blonde chicks. It's that arbitrary.
A tournament is a sum of many characteristics. SC2 is just the main one, and DH was not that behind MLG in that regard eighter.
On April 25 2012 16:03 ceaRshaf wrote: In a simpler way to put it, MLG doesn't bring anything new, they just makes it good. DH is getting ESPORTS bigger.
The Arena is more new and different than anything Dreamhack has ever done..
The one thing MLG had is good players. IPL4 had x10 more than that and has been already forgoten. Why? Because the production value was not that high (casters, crowd, coverage, etc). So no, a tournament doesn't need only good players to make it good. It's like me saying the only good tournament is where miss Spore (or what's her name) is hired as an announcer because I like blonde chicks. It's that arbitrary.
A tournament is a sum of many characteristics. SC2 is just the main one, and DH was not that behind MLG in that regard eighter.
Who has forgotten about IPL4? I think you are projecting. IPL4 had amazing games and amazing players, didn't have hardly any foreigners go deep besides stephano, and still was the best tournament I have seen in a while (other than GSL). It doesn't matter if the production wasn't there. Of course this is all subjective.
My whole post was in response to you saying that MLG never does anything new, only better. Spring Arena was a 8 man round robin tournament with a new format and first person views for each player. How is that not trying anything new? MLG is trying new things, much more than Dreamhack has done. Whether they succeeded or not in your view is beside the point. Your assertion regarding MLG was flat out wrong.
On April 25 2012 16:03 ceaRshaf wrote: In a simpler way to put it, MLG doesn't bring anything new, they just makes it good. DH is getting ESPORTS bigger.
The Arena is more new and different than anything Dreamhack has ever done..
The one thing MLG had is good players. IPL4 had x10 more than that and has been already forgoten. Why? Because the production value was not that high (casters, crowd, coverage, etc). So no, a tournament doesn't need only good players to make it good. It's like me saying the only good tournament is where miss Spore (or what's her name) is hired as an announcer because I like blonde chicks. It's that arbitrary.
A tournament is a sum of many characteristics. SC2 is just the main one, and DH was not that behind MLG in that regard eighter.
good games can save a tournament. NASL Season 1 finals is the perfect example of this. They had a ton of production issues, but the epic series between Puma and MC saved that tournament.
Getting the best players should yield you the best games. That is the single most important thing for an sc2 tournament. Day 2 of DH was so much better than Day 1 because the games were way better and we didnt have Sase beating a 12 year old. r
And IPL 4 has been forgotten already because it was about 3 weeks ago and other tournaments have happened.
And yes, IPL 4 had the best line up outside of Korea. BUT they didn't do the best job of showing it. One stream of that open bracket wasn't enough. This past weekend, MLG showed every single game and gave the player POV's. MLG did a way better job at showcasing that top talent than IPL did. MLG had better casters and did better coverage than IPL did so... yeah.
By saying MLG only had good players, you are being incredibly short sighted. This past arena brought the best analysis we have seen in a sc2 tournament with the race specific analysts.
And no, great players are not as arbitrary as liking miss Sporrer. The players are the whole fucking purpose of the tournament. How the fuck can you actually say that having the best players in the world is as arbitrary as having a random chick as a host?
Players are not everything. That's it! They may be the most important (though casters might top that) they just are not everything.
How many of you watched the Iron Squid? Even if you did it's because we are nerds talking on this forum. But overall it did not have good ratings because despite having a SICK lineup it was very badly produced. Good casters + good players is not enough to bring interest. And it was free.
On April 25 2012 18:25 ceaRshaf wrote: Players are not everything. That's it! They may be the most important (though casters might top that) they just are not everything.
How many of you watched the Iron Squid? Even if you did it's because we are nerds talking on this forum. But overall it did not have good ratings because despite having a SICK lineup it was very badly produced. Good casters + good players is not enough to bring interest. And it was free.
I think the only reason more people didn't watch Iron Squid is because it had almost 0 advertising/hype on TL. Was it ever on the front page or anything? I really don't understand how that tournament didn't do way better, it had a better lineup than Dreamhack ez and a very good prize pool. Probably just because it is online.
On April 25 2012 18:25 ceaRshaf wrote: Players are not everything. That's it! They may be the most important (though casters might top that) they just are not everything.
How many of you watched the Iron Squid? Even if you did it's because we are nerds talking on this forum. But overall it did not have good ratings because despite having a SICK lineup it was very badly produced. Good casters + good players is not enough to bring interest. And it was free.
One, I didn't say players were everything. I said they were the purpose of the tournament. No players, no tournament. Simple as that. The better the players, the higher caliber of play, the better the games, the better the entertainment. The games are the most important thing in tournaments, no questions about it. Once again I will bring up NASL Season 1. People hated Gretorp's casting, yet he casted the finals and it was epic as hell because the games were so sick.
And Iron Squid has done very well. The biggest things that kept it from having more viewers are: One, its an online tournament. Online tournaments aren't going to bring in the numbers offline tournaments do. Two, the games were old. People have less interest in watching games that are irrelevant to the current meta game. This also goes to show how important the games are. Three, the time the tournament airs. Its been middle of the week, middle of the day in the US. You aren't going to get huge numbers then. Yeah, they had rebroadcasts, but its a rebroadcast. They were far from a optimal broadcasting time.
And it wasn't badly produced. You need to realize the English stream was the secondary stream. The french stream had some great production. The English stream was like the glhf stream of DH.
Oh and it was group stages. How about you wait to see the actual finals, which will be offline in Paris?
On April 25 2012 18:25 ceaRshaf wrote: Players are not everything. That's it! They may be the most important (though casters might top that) they just are not everything.
How many of you watched the Iron Squid? Even if you did it's because we are nerds talking on this forum. But overall it did not have good ratings because despite having a SICK lineup it was very badly produced. Good casters + good players is not enough to bring interest. And it was free.
Ironsquid failing had a lot more to do with old replays being casted, I remember at some point they had a sick tvz that on paper looks amazing, but it was played before the ghost nerf. Production might have had to do with it, but for the most part iron squid suffered from old replays, I remember the streaming numbers being quiet decent for the first few shows, but I stopped watching because I'm not interested in another metagame that is so outdated.
MLG had better players and casters, I don't think anyone can argue against that. But I still don't get why we keep comparing the two. The fact that sc2 is so big that we had two events on one weekend is actually really cool. Dreamhack was an open tournament (which is something that is actually quiet new to europe in terms of sc2 as most competitions are either invites or have online qualifiers) with a live audience. MLG was a small arena with the best players in the world. Both were amazing events and had their pros and cons, MLG is still controversial because it's ppv but I still feel like people don't understand these arenas. They are not the same as mlg events, they are not big events and comparing them to huge offline events like ipl/dh is just wrong. Essential mlg is only doing these arenas to a) substain themselves without investor money and b) solve some of the issues the pool play system had l ast year. Even if the arena had a free stream I'd still play 10 bucks for each of them just because they fly the players in. No other league does that at all and I think people underestimate how much this helps. Half the korean teams don't have the financial to sent their players anywhere. Also people seem to forget that MLG is the only league without a huge company behind it. Gom has gretorp tech and lord knows what behind them, thats why they don't need that many sponsors. IPL has IGN who would probably fine with IPL not making profit and just look at it as a marketing campaign. NASL has a private investor and they stated multiple times that they just wanna do an esports league and aren't too keen on making profit. DH is a lot smaller then mlg in terms of people working there and what not, plus they only got into event production about a year ago. So honestly if mlg needs some money to actually turn this into a buisness model and not something that relies on insane growth, I'm happy to pay.
On April 25 2012 18:25 ceaRshaf wrote: Players are not everything. That's it! They may be the most important (though casters might top that) they just are not everything.
How many of you watched the Iron Squid? Even if you did it's because we are nerds talking on this forum. But overall it did not have good ratings because despite having a SICK lineup it was very badly produced. Good casters + good players is not enough to bring interest. And it was free.
Ironsquid failing had a lot more to do with old replays being casted, I remember at some point they had a sick tvz that on paper looks amazing, but it was played before the ghost nerf. Production might have had to do with it, but for the most part iron squid suffered from old replays, I remember the streaming numbers being quiet decent for the first few shows, but I stopped watching because I'm not interested in another metagame that is so outdated.
MLG had better players and casters, I don't think anyone can argue against that. But I still don't get why we keep comparing the two. The fact that sc2 is so big that we had two events on one weekend is actually really cool. Dreamhack was an open tournament (which is something that is actually quiet new to europe in terms of sc2 as most competitions are either invites or have online qualifiers) with a live audience. MLG was a small arena with the best players in the world. Both were amazing events and had their pros and cons, MLG is still controversial because it's ppv but I still feel like people don't understand these arenas. They are not the same as mlg events, they are not big events and comparing them to huge offline events like ipl/dh is just wrong. Essential mlg is only doing these arenas to a) substain themselves without investor money and b) solve some of the issues the pool play system had l ast year. Even if the arena had a free stream I'd still play 10 bucks for each of them just because they fly the players in. No other league does that at all and I think people underestimate how much this helps. Half the korean teams don't have the financial to sent their players anywhere. Also people seem to forget that MLG is the only league without a huge company behind it. Gom has gretorp tech and lord knows what behind them, thats why they don't need that many sponsors. IPL has IGN who would probably fine with IPL not making profit and just look at it as a marketing campaign. NASL has a private investor and they stated multiple times that they just wanna do an esports league and aren't too keen on making profit. DH is a lot smaller then mlg in terms of people working there and what not, plus they only got into event production about a year ago. So honestly if mlg needs some money to actually turn this into a buisness model and not something that relies on insane growth, I'm happy to pay.
DH has been using an open system for their summer and winter events since it started how do you think actionjesus became known. And it's also been stated ipl has to turn a profit and it's not like DH can run losses either.
EPT
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