Z v T: Current situation and comparison to BW - Page 59

On August 28 2010 02:08 lowkontrast wrote:
I think Zerg and Protoss will be at the level of Terran when the expansions come out. They will both have more units and more opportunities to hard counter the Terran players with these new units. After all, you are comparing Starcraft II to Starcraft: Brood War, and not Starcraft.

On August 28 2010 02:12 EppE wrote:
So we have to wait 12-18 months?

On August 28 2010 02:55 ubiquitousnewt wrote:
In searching for "opening" strategies to use as zerg, I have come to the conclusion that we have very, very few options.:
Terrans use reapers, MMM, viking OL hunting, siege tank walking, mech & tech with SCV heals, early & fast nukes, cloaking...and on and on.
Zerg have a sneaky nidus and mass banelings, both of which are really only good if you can catch a terran with his pants down.

A zerg player only has a shot at beating terran if he grossly outskills him. In case of a tie, zerg loses by a large margin; it is really that simple. Add in the grotesque amount of attention to macro zerg requires...bleh. Yes; they're no fun.

Suggested fixes?
-Make the infestor die, but give you permanent control of the opponents unit, sort of a suicide style. That 12-second thing sucks hard.
-Spawn larva is a massive pain. Give the bloody queens spawn larvae on autocast. If SCVs can autorepair, it's not too much to ask. Either that or make it so you can recast multiple times ala mules.
-Boy do OLs suck compared to supply depots or pylons. I dunno, have them reflect 25% of the dmg they take from air units maybe, so one darn viking can't take out 20 of them & force "gg."
-Give the zerg some sort of deadlock-breakers to break up these massive turtles that Terran has. In BW, we had spawn broodling, scourges, defilers, MASSIVE damage from infested terrans (laboriously acquired via a base-theft I might add), nice splash dmg from lurkers ...blah blah blah. They took all that away, and gave us roaches, banelings, and 35-hp dmg FG to work with. Bollocks.
-In general, consider giving zerg units more autocast abilities, so you don't have to be in 5 places with 10 hotgroups at once.

Terran players got no fear right now...why should they when the absolute worst thing you can throw at them is a REALLY expensive T3 ultralisk or four? Barring a patch I'm moving over to protoss after YEARS of playing zerg; this current team is a mess, and I'm tired of losing to players who aren't as good as I am.

QQ

On August 15 2010 10:49 Z3kk wrote:
It's just harder to be "good" as a Zerg, but at the highest level of play, I think Zerg players are able to deal with Terrans (though the issues are still there).

Greetings, citizens of the Koprulu sector! StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty is celebrating its one-month anniversary and we’re extremely excited to witness the amazing community that’s come together around the game. To that end, we want you to know we are hard at work on the first feature and balance patch, and expect to have it completed and available by the middle of September. Patch 1.1 will contain a number of improvements including additional mod features, Editor improvements and bug fixes, some custom game improvements, support for NVIDIA’s 3D Vision, and more. We'd also like to share some specific plans for this patch with you.

To begin, we've heard a lot of feedback from our global community about standardized hotkey options. We're happy to announce that in patch 1.1 we are going to make the Standard (US) and Standard for Lefties (US) hotkey options available in all regions.

Balance Changes

We have several balance changes in store. One general change we're making is that friendly units will no longer provide vision after being killed. Enemy units previously revealed will no longer be targetable. Now let's break down the additional balance changes we're implementing.

Maps

We're going to be adding destructible rocks to the Desert Oasis map to make natural expansions easier to protect. In addition, the center map watchtower area is being narrowed.

Protoss

We have two key changes in mind for the zealot: the build time is being increased from 33 to 38 seconds, and the warpgate cooldown is being increased from 23 to 28 seconds. Zealot rushes are currently too powerful at various skill levels, particularly those that rely on rapidly assaulting an enemy base from nearby "proxy" gateways. We feel the window players have to scout for and fend off this rush is too small. We also want to address the problem of protoss being able to dump minerals a bit too quickly with the combination of warpgates and Chrono Boost.

Terran

There are several changes in the works for terrans. Reapers against zerg are stronger than expected. Due to the zealot build time increase, reapers would be a bit problematic in combination with proxy barracks, bunkers, and/or marauders against protoss. Therefore, we have decided to increase the build time of reapers as well from 40 to 45 seconds. Fast reaper + bunker, or fast marine + bunker rushes are problematic against zerg. Although this rush would never outright destroy the zerg player, we feel zerg suffers too much of a disadvantage from either having to cancel the fast expansion, or getting trapped inside the main base for too long, so we are also increasing the bunker build time from 30 to 35 seconds.

Siege tanks in large numbers are performing too well in all matchups. In the mid- to late-game, siege tanks are too dominant against all ground units. We want a small set of light and unarmored ground units to perform better against siege tanks. With this in mind, we're changing the Siege Mode damage of the siege tank from 50 to 35, +15 vs. armored; to correspond with this, damage upgrades will be changed from +5 to +3, +2 vs. armored. This change reduces the base damage of the siege tank against light and unarmored units, as well as the splash damage.

Battlecruisers currently lack good counters from the ground and still perform very well against a wide array of unit types. We're aware that it is not easy to get battlecruisers out for the cost, but at the same time, it is possible in both 1v1s and team games to create stalemate situations to bring them out. Overall, we feel that battlecruisers are too strong for their cost, and the terran-forced stalemate situations are causing less interesting gameplay. We will be lowering their damage against ground units from 10 to 8.

Zerg

Ultralisk damage is being decreased from 15, +25 vs. armored to 15, +20 vs. armored. This reduction is comparable to the changes being made to the battlecruiser and siege tank. Like the battlecruiser, ultralisks are simply too powerful for the cost, even though they are difficult to muster. Also, in combination with other units, ultralisks are difficult to counter from the ground. The ultralisk building attack (Ram) is being removed because the damage rate is too similar to its normal attack, which will be used against buildings instead. When ultralisks target tightly packed smaller buildings such as supply depots, the Ram attack is actually outputting considerably less overall damage than its normal attack, as Ram only hits a single target.

And Beyond...

We are reading your posts on the forums and creating lists of features and bugs to address in future patches. We have mid- to long-term plans to further evolve the Custom Game experience, and soon, enhance our social features with the addition of chat channels. We will be sharing more specific information in the coming weeks. As with all of our previous games, we will support StarCraft II for many years to come. Your feedback and participation is critical in making this not only the best game it can be, but also the most engaged gaming community in the world. We look forward to the implementation of patch 1.1, as well as sharing our plans for our future gameplay and Battle.net features.

We'll see you online!

On August 27 2010 19:46 kckkryptonite wrote:


QFT

Most of the people defending the T probably have never even touched Zerg, let alone have had some matches at the diamond level; as Zerg, there are so little solid options you have against T, one slip-up and you get steam rolled.

On August 27 2010 18:36 TempeL wrote:
I dont think that people realise how retarded this matchup really is. We all will think about how broken zvt was in the begining when we think about it in a couple of years. I'm amazed that people still think "zerg just gotta be more creative".

And i dont agree with zerg have an advantage in mid/late game, its just more even.

On August 28 2010 07:54 shadowy wrote:
Situation Report: Patch 1.1 and Beyond

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/692221#blog


Some much needed changes are comming.

On August 28 2010 17:22 Tachion wrote:
What do they have to cry about? ZvT remains largely untouched. Reapers may appear a little slower but there is still a long time before Zerg gets a spire/roach speed.
The timing window where you have +1 carapace and they don't have +1 vehicle weapons can be awfully small. They may not even push out until they've upgraded it now, which could be good for the Zerg if their regular timing push is delayed or weakened.
Using ground vs tanks is still incredibly ineffective, and hydras will still get steamrolled by them, extra shot required or not. They could always make a bunch of igniter hellions to compensate.