On August 14 2010 04:22 Powster wrote: I surrender every single PvP game I join now. I had thoughts of quitting starcraft 2 from how bad PvP is and some thoughts of switching to zerg but then I realized I could just surrender at the start and made the game a lot more fun for me lol..
So you can go back to your standard void cheese?
Dear god man are you reading what you write? PvP is literally the only matchup a toss player goes into where it is a direct comparison of macro skill, micro skill, scouting, positioning, and strategy. If you can't survive long enough to reach the midgame, you need to re-evaluate how early you tech and what defensive strategy you are using or learn to play a more aggressive, micro intensive early game.
On August 14 2010 06:19 juraigamer wrote: Just played a pvp, so freaking bogus. Even with scouting.
Zealots beat immortals, but if they rushed cheese rays your dead. Stalkers beat cheese rays, but immortals say your dead.
Rinse, repeat, bullshit. It's like I can't build a unit composition unless it's balanced, but then stalker spam just micros around half my army. Also the immortal range is crap.
Don't let them get to void rays and win in 5 minutes by using all in strats. Problem solved though it just encourages more PvP bullshit.
I wish there were some other way to play PvP, but everytime I try anything different (1 gate robo, 1 gate stargate), essentially anything that isn't just 2 gate zealot or 4 gate push, i just lose. I just don't see a defense to the 4 gate that isn't 4 gating yourself and then trying to hold off pressure. I guess maybe getting sentries early to block ramp but then youre just containing yourself. It's a shitty matchup that needs to be fixed.
On August 14 2010 05 14 2010 05 SoL[9] wrote: I almost agreed with all comments, but i would like to see a good protoss player post here (Nony).
My idea is for you use warpgate you should upgrade the pylon to. What i mean is you do normal upgrade for warpgate but them when with finish it you should upgrade the plyon that you want for warp in the units. That upgrade should cost 50/50 something like that. That would change PvP and other mu´s to. But i think with this the game could be a litle more complex.
Quote myself because i really want to know what you guys think about this. This would change 100% the all in in PvP
Depending on how you work the upgrade, it would either change nothing, or ruin warp gates for the other match ups.
I have yet to play a game in pvp that has gone over 10 minutes. Usually people just go heavy stalker or heavy zealot and then whoever wins that battle wins the whole game. The games need to be longer instead of revolving solely around build order, who gets warpgates researched faster, etc.
He could have made a zealot as his core warped in, and with that zealot handled all of the pylons before the enemy warp gate tech finished...
Erm, hate to say it, but zealots don't do 100 damage per hit. Plexa was pretty much correct - you make gas, you lose. :|. (there were 4 proxy pylons with another probe OTW)
One idea is making pylons "fragile" so when they warp in they take 4x damage instead so workers and small unit counts can take em early game. Having warp-in in pvp is like having several 100mineral cancelable nydus worms 4min into the game pop up into your base and even if 1 survives you lose.
The other problem is zlots are soooooooo slow and there is no way to kill enemy workers. Chronoboost should be able to be used on zealots for 25energy to make them move 100% faster for 15seconds basically in the area of a common base. This would help immensely, although since you can mineral float workers in... sigh. Maybe make minerals not targetable unless you can see them but still allow refinery's to be placed?
He could have made a zealot as his core warped in, and with that zealot handled all of the pylons before the enemy warp gate tech finished...
Erm, hate to say it, but zealots don't do 100 damage per hit. Plexa was pretty much correct - you make gas, you lose. :|. (there were 4 proxy pylons with another probe OTW)
I don't know, core's build time is 50, warp gate is 140... 100 minimum with chronos? that's 150 total, and a zealot takes 33. Of course, he isn't going to just make a ton of zealots, but if he just had a couple he could have handled the situation.
The other problem is zlots are soooooooo slow and there is no way to kill enemy workers.
...
although since you can mineral float workers in... sigh. Maybe make minerals not targetable unless you can see them but still allow refinery's to be placed?
This is the real problem. Zealots are just insanely slow and it makes no sense what so ever for balance OR lore.
On August 14 2010 04:41 travis wrote: im gettin pretty high diamond, and i think it's mostly fine. there are tons of things that can be done if the game actually goes far enough to involve tech.
my primary problem with it is that mass zealots are way OP to start the game, stalkers aren't good enough vs zealots early game - im not even sure why this is lol
dont agree at all.
1. the game very rarely goes far enough to involve tech 2. IF the game goes far enough collosus > all. and its not even close. the on with more colloxen wins. isnt surprising considering the collosus is like the tank in TvT just way more mobile.
Meh, its not that simple and cut and dry. You can have less colossus and still win. What I've been doing is setting up a flank with immortals in warp prisms. When he moves out, I can warp in a bunch of units and set up a pretty rough flank that colossus have a hard time dealing with.
If you're just crashing two armies together, yeah, the dude with more colossus is gonna win. If you're playing around with positioning and flanking, it isn't that dry.
I did not read all of the reps, but could we not come up with the optimal build for P? I am talking about a build that either wins you a game, or forces your opponent into a counter that you can counter yourself... too tiried to think, so hypothetically speaking: ex: if 2gate > 4 gate zealot > 3gate robo etc etc...
So, we start of with 2 gate because it forces a 2 gate back, so no more rock paper scissors, you have an optimal opening that wont get you gayed. Than follow with 1 robo and go into colossi i.e. to try to win the colossi battle...
Anyway, just trying to give an example, but we can turn this thread into a productive one by developing a series of transitions that forces your game onto the opponent, or wins if he does not respond (hope i made sense, these are just examples of the flow I am asking for, not actual strats).
edit: I am actually starting to think about walling off your choke with a gateway (150), to prevent the pylon probe from coming in, and to allow you to safely robo play (or if you are so certain he will 4gate or expand - to dt).
On August 14 2010 05 14 2010 05 SoL[9] wrote: I almost agreed with all comments, but i would like to see a good protoss player post here (Nony).
My idea is for you use warpgate you should upgrade the pylon to. What i mean is you do normal upgrade for warpgate but them when with finish it you should upgrade the plyon that you want for warp in the units. That upgrade should cost 50/50 something like that. That would change PvP and other mu´s to. But i think with this the game could be a litle more complex.
Quote myself because i really want to know what you guys think about this. This would change 100% the all in in PvP
Depends. If that effect Protoss in mid/late game that was simple to fix. Every time you did a "upgrade" plyon that cost less minerals/gas.
With this Protoss would be alot more complex and more strategy wise.
no, its not rock rock.. its: rock rock paper paper scissors scissors:D is a solid opening a bad thing?
also, to answer u directly, imho, yes rock rock is better than rock paper scissors. Whoever is better at rock will win.... rock paper scissors = whoever guesses right wins. I like the whoever is better part more, so in that case, I hope Blizzard does hire me.
To state it again, I hate doing the same thing all the time, but given our current circumstances, I find it better than gambling.... dont you?
EPT
