Love this idea. If they could add shield battery to the nexus mana or something that would be awesome. Terran has two mechanics, zerg has two mechanics so why not protoss?

Plexa

Aotearoa39261 Posts

August 14 2010 22:13 GMT

#162

On August 14 2010 07:06 travis wrote:

Show nested quote +

this isn't true
gas only costs 75
that isn't going to cost you the game

mass zealot/proxy zealot is great against bad players
but as players get better and better
they will get better at better at balancing economy with defense, and they will still defend whatever zealots u throw at them while teching at an appropriate speed (which will be faster than you tech)

Yea just so people are clear, at that point everyone who I had played who went gas and kept teching lost. And for good reason, you can't tech in PvP safely. Any one gate strat should die in the current environment. The korean warpgate all in isn't terribly difficult to beat - but if the protoss is clever and just starts warping in units close to you rather than in your base, life can get tricky.

PvP is all about whoever can make the most units at the moment. Fall behind in units and you lose map control, which means he can put up proxy pylons and camp you until he gets enough units to break you. I'm still trying to find a good balance between economy and units, but here are some of my pvp's from today.

http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/sc2_reps/stroggos1.sc2replay
http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/sc2_reps/stroggos2.sc2replay

The 2nd game is particularly stupid.

pavs

Canada26 Posts

August 14 2010 22:31 GMT

#163

In my experience(500 diamond Protoss) any PvP that goes longer than ten minutes is all about who can get out more collossi out and contain the other one in his base. I think that the main problem with the matchup is that Protoss have no hard counter to collosi except for immortals which get picked off ridiculously fast because of their weak range. Anyone have any good counters to collossi?

Also the shield battery idea is interesting but wouldn't it unbalance PvT and PvZ a lot?

mikx

United States16 Posts

August 14 2010 22:39 GMT

#164

I think it would be great if you could use the forcefield of a Sentry to cover up pylons and cannons (they would visually fit under it somewhat). For pylons it would shutdown the power field, which would both disable proxy gateways for 15 seconds as well as kill zealots/stalkers in warp in transit.

Cannons wouldn't get powered inside the field and also shutdown - same if you would cover their powering pylon.

I think you can already cover units with enough forcefields, maybe add an easier way to trap at least probes - to have it easier to surrond a proxy probe with slow zealots.

This change would create a got defender advantage as it buys you time both against proxy and cannon rushes, defenders usually have more pylons closeley together and overlapping (so it's hard to use offensive in early game) while allowing for some fun late game micro action (dropping 6 sentries and shutting down an entire base for 15 seconds or so, killing a huge re-enforcement warp in in transit with a hero sentrie covering a critical frontline pylon, etc).

Tozar

United States245 Posts

August 14 2010 22:45 GMT

#165

Every PvP I play begins with a sigh...

I knew this warpgate cheese would be a problem months ago, it is just too easy to do. The sad thing is it is a prefferable alternative to the mass collossi play you see when both sides tech.

qoolqop

Sweden71 Posts

August 14 2010 23:12 GMT

#166

lower nexus manapool so it punishes the one who isnt using it actively

shazbot

Canada5 Posts

August 15 2010 00:00 GMT

#167

As far as the 2 gate proxy builds are concerned the easiest thing I find to do is that once you scout and see nothing in the tosses base lay down a forge instead of a cyber core or another gateway. This way you won't be able to keep up in production since he has most likely laid down more gateways than you already and the stalkers won't hit hard enough to kite he will eventually wear you down. With a forge as long as you get your first tower up in a good position you should be able to hold off any kind of push, two towers if you have to. Once this is done you can continue to build normally.

Obviously you should still be building zealots out of your first gateway and build another gateway if the pressure continues. After the pressure is done and over hes basically gone all in and should also have no defenses inside his base. Try to sneak a few zealot past his proxy into his base even while hes pressuring if you can and interupt his probe line for the win. Often times people who do this build will try to void ray immediately after. Setup one well placed tower in your mineral patch and a few stalkers and you should be able to easily handle this and have quite the economical advantage to easily win. I know most people don't like using stationary towers as a form of defense but with all-ins such as this one extremes can be dealt with extremes. You just have to push pass his pressure and you should win the game assuming you are a half competent player.

shouri

90 Posts

August 15 2010 00:05 GMT

#168

Past 8 games have been all protoss, it really kills the desire to play honestly.

Jenslyn87

Denmark527 Posts

August 15 2010 00:10 GMT

#169

Could someone post a replay of a well-executed 4 gate warp-in push? Would like to see