EPTCurrent State of Early Game Zerg - Page 2
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Nilanth
United States5 Posts
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Headshot
United States1656 Posts
On August 13 2010 14:09 Ghin wrote:and by "Top Zerg players" you must mean idra. Did you not see Sheth's writeup? | ||
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Yttrasil
Sweden651 Posts
An example of a unit that would be cool and solve some issues for me and also very fun. It should be built from the hatchery after you get for example roach warren(with some extra features also), cost 50/50(be 1 supply!!) or 25/75 be something like a weaker roach(give some plus vs armoured?) but with some weakish anti air also to help your queens in need maybe also with that you should be able to use the queens energy(25 or so) to queue up more than 1 at the same time from the hatchery if you want to build them faster plus it's a way to neglect you missing the inject larva from time to time. Also maybe have an ability to move while burrowed which you get automatically to be able to scout people. Maybe even give it an ability to dig under cliffs(both the burrow and under cliff thing for another 50/50 maybe or just for free?). Now that would be a fun not overpowered unit that will help you somewhat against tough banshee/void ray rushes if you have some spare energy on a queen also help you get rid of all the excess energy on a queen. Would be really cool to use it late game as a unit to mass when you have so many queens with full energy and as it only takes 1 supply also an option not having to rush to hydra every game IF fast banshee or voidray are coming to get any kind of mobile anti air before that. Just a stupid suggestion for a unit that would add diversity to the bland boring zerg race, it would really open up for at least some kind of different plays at the start as zerg and not force us to go always the same path. Any opinions? | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10947 Posts
With roaches/speedling you could hold of really lots of stuff... It's just.. Oh, he has 1 Air-Unit... Even if i have enough Units and Creepspread to fend everything off with spedlings and slow banelings/roaches, i can never ever leave my base until i get Hydras. Yeah, you can try to scout it.. Good luck with that, they both can build everywhere they fucking want and whiteout overlordspeed your not even sure to see anything. Why can a Toss 4 Gate and be save from everything? Why can a Terran just mass MM and be save from everything? Zerg just needs the abilitie to produce Hydras just "in case" the enemy decides to build a flying unit because else it's not just a harass unit, it's a unit of insta-gg. | ||
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tacrats
476 Posts
On August 13 2010 21:18 Velr wrote: The only thing that makes Zerg boring is the need fort he T2 tech. With roaches/speedling you could hold of really lots of stuff... It's just.. Oh, he has 1 Air-Unit... Even if i have enough creep to fend it off, i can never leave my base until i got some Hydras. its not really the air that sucks, its the cloaked banshees. staying at t1 would get you raped by them. give overlords detection back. remove overseers from the game or make them upgrade for 50/50 ands till have changling and contaminate. The overseer is just ANOTHER thing zerg has spend a crapload of gas on once he finally hits t2. | ||
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f0rk
England172 Posts
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TerranHater
18 Posts
it's not seriously Scan -How much time does it take to use it? Prolly 1 second or less -Do you lose food over it? NO -Is it guaranteed scouting? YES, meaning you WILL mostly likely see what your opponent is doing -Do you REALLY lose mineral? NO, since you use your energy to use it and it doesn't come directly out of the mineral you currently have Overlord -How much time does it take for the overlord to get to the opponent's base? ohhh i don't know... but by the time you get there, it'll prolly die cuz of marine. If P, then no. Later by stalker -Do you lose food over it? Hell yea -Is it guaranteed scouting? NO, cuz marine can sack that thing before it even touches the edge of the base -Do you REALLY lose mineral? yes you dumb bitch, you take exactly 100 mineral directly from my mineral and press s and v to make that shit. and if sacked, then i have to make another one | ||
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sowosamma
Germany8 Posts
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jabberwokie
Canada142 Posts
ling -> ling, hydra -> ling, hydra, infestor -> ling, hydra, infestor, broodlord > The rest get 3 bases! | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
Early game is fine for me, my biggest problem is mid-game push with Collossi or HTs for P and some other terran pushes. If the P push with Collossi your hydras will get raped and you need air (and even with air it's hard to hold) or ultras (who take a lot of time and ressource to get), HTs are a problem too. In general I think Z lack something to defend against those units. | ||
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Latham
9590 Posts
Decrease burrow build time and cost to 50/50. Revert Overlord speed back to 100/100. Make Lair not build for 80 fucking seconds, 60 or 40 plz. Give roaches 2 starting armor but stay with the 2 food crap or make them have the speed upgrade from the get-go. Maybe make roaches upgrades cheaper. Maybe decrease queen build time. Remove the "Light" armor type from the hydralisk. Make them only Biological, so hellions won't rape them any way they want. Remove the "Armoured" armour type from the Spine Crawler, leaving them only with Structure and biological, so we'll be able to defend against maras and stalkers early pushes. Right now, once you hit Lair, you have to waste so many fucking resources on upgrades it's ridiculous. If you commit to burrowed roaches, you won't have anything to fall back on since you just wasted 100/100(speed) + 100/100 (burrow) + 150/150 (burrow move) + 200/200 (overlord speed) and god knows how much more on overseers etc. just to have a shot at defending a midgame push -.- | ||
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Phrencys
Canada270 Posts
Most terran MULE, especially vs zerg since it's basically impossible to wall-in for zerg until you get lings/roachs, so terran can just sac an SCV or marine to scout freely. On the topic of zerg early game, what I would like to see is not necessarily a decrease in queen's build time, but perhaps make queen available without a spawning pool (like protoss don't need a gateway to chrono boost). Being able to build a queen sooner would allow more diverse builds since it would certainly be viable to queen+pool at like 12 drones instead of systematically going FE because zerg can't afford to tech/crank enough of their weaksauce units with 1base. | ||
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Melt
Switzerland281 Posts
If the opponent goes heavy air (void or banshee) i find that Infestors counter air much better than Hydras, especially because they can attack cloaked Banshees (Fungal Growth) and stop any air from just dodging your ground forces. They will also often be able to stop Voidrays from keeping up their charged beams when you fungal them correctly. And concerning the scouting abilitys; position your Overlords proberly, position your Zerglings properly and hold the Xelnaga Towers. The problem is, that this only work on big Maps, because you can still build some units if you see them move out. The thing that's imba with Zerg is the inability to withstand a Mechball or Tossball, even if you scouted it, without loosing too much economy. It's just a balancing act and if you estimated incorrectly, you will be dead. It doesn't matter whether you droned up too much or made too much army. Especially against Terran, you won't be able to counter attack if you have much of an army left, cuz of their insane turtle power. Anything but the exact balance will loose you the game and getting that balance is often depending on instinct. | ||
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Tazza
Korea (South)1678 Posts
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eivind
111 Posts
On August 13 2010 16:38 Swede wrote: If you're not scouting in a similar fashion to this then that is the reason you're failing: Whow you are a genious! Now I can scout everything with slow moving OLs! Well except ANY player that actually places supply depots / pylons around his base. Any decent Terran player should stop OLs from scouting anything vital by just building the base correctly. Especially on maps with large starting areas. | ||
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Azile
United States339 Posts
On August 13 2010 21:52 Phrencys wrote: @TerranHater: Scan costs 270 minerals, because then you're not MULEing. You seem confused as to what 'cost' means. You are making a choice when scanning between scouting and receiving 270 minerals over a period of time. It doesn't cost you anything. At no point in the game will you ever say "well shit i'd like to scan right now but I can't cause I only have 50 minerals". | ||
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tacrats
476 Posts
On August 13 2010 21:52 Phrencys wrote: @TerranHater: Scan costs 270 minerals, because then you're not MULEing. false. | ||
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Bair
United States698 Posts
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Nyth
Netherlands19 Posts
The zerg in SC2 have a very reactive playstyle. And especially in the early early game taking the wrong route as zerg can be extremely punishing. Much more so than with T or P. | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
On August 14 2010 00:25 Azile wrote: You seem confused as to what 'cost' means. You are making a choice when scanning between scouting and receiving 270 minerals over a period of time. It doesn't cost you anything. At no point in the game will you ever say "well shit i'd like to scan right now but I can't cause I only have 50 minerals". I don't know if most Z are in denial or just don't understand economics or what. Scan costs: 270 minerals over time OPPORTUNITY COST. It COSTS minerals. There is no way to say otherwise. OR 100 minerals + mining time of 1 scv immediate OPPORTUNITY COST. It COSTS minerals. Sac your overlords. T is already doing it with scans. Play both sides and you'd understand. When I get Z I sac plenty of overlords. Just like I sac plenty of mules/supply drops to get info. | ||
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