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On August 14 2010 01:11 KenShi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 07:11 GodIsNotHere wrote:On August 12 2010 07:18 ig0tfish wrote:
ITT: Nerf Terran to oblivion and buff zerg and protoss. Pretty much, looks like he basically shortened that other guys post. Uh not really. If you read the post at all you would have noticed that~ I've been gone for the last 2 days so i couldnt read all of your posts, but if you give me an actual arguement against my changes i can actually explain my reasoning instead of just stupid posts like this.
please explain why 2 roaches for 1 larva is necessary and how implementing such an idea wouldn't drastically upset the current balance of larva management.
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On August 14 2010 01:38 mahnini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 01:11 KenShi wrote:On August 13 2010 07:11 GodIsNotHere wrote:On August 12 2010 07:18 ig0tfish wrote:
ITT: Nerf Terran to oblivion and buff zerg and protoss. Pretty much, looks like he basically shortened that other guys post. Uh not really. If you read the post at all you would have noticed that~ I've been gone for the last 2 days so i couldnt read all of your posts, but if you give me an actual arguement against my changes i can actually explain my reasoning instead of just stupid posts like this. please explain why 2 roaches for 1 larva is necessary and how implementing such an idea wouldn't drastically upset the current balance of larva management.
Honestly that change I didn't spend that much thought on so i can see the faults in the change espically for the larva management part of. To be honest though 2 supply roaches are terrible and 1 supply roaches are too good. Pretty much i just thought of 1.5 roaches and thats how i got the idea. Too be honest roaches in general are a terribly designed unit so anything could be better then what they are now~
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Please explain why you would make the Terran macro mechanic more punishing without changing the Protoss one.
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This is pretty much nerf terran, buff zerg, and get rid of the good counter to infestors for protoss..
Since I play Protoss, I thought it would be weird to comment on the terran stuff (Thors MELT to void rays...since their ROF is so slow AoE damage is acceptable). But feedback doing damage is AWESOME. I like it a lot...and I haven't ever heard someone say that it's OP, so I think you're just mad it can kill an Infestor in one hit =P. Against terran, I've never heard someone rage about feedback...the only unit it can kill in one hit is the raven, which I guess is a big deal, but if the raven has full mana I don't think the terran would mind that much, as he probably isn't that good anyway.
charge's build time is fine in my opinion, if it came earlier it would be a lot more difficult for marauder balls to put on early pressure, as chargelots counter marauders quite well, and I think it would be really OP. And Archons are joke units anyway unless you're going against bio, but if they have only a bio ball when you can get archons, storm is a lot better...
OP: I bet you play zerg, and it probably felt really good to write this, but whining about terrans having easier macro is just the state of the race. Zerg micro is a joke, without infesstors, but their macro is really hard, I get that, but the mule thing just make me think that you don't think it's fair that terran have it so easy while you have to vomit larve every 30 seconds or so. If you can't keep up, and think terran's OP, change races. Btw, Original Poster and Over Powered both being OP is reallly confusing on a starcraft forum. just sayin.
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On August 14 2010 01:47 MythicalMage wrote:
Please explain why you would make the Terran macro mechanic more punishing without changing the Protoss one.
As the Protoss one is 50x deeper in terms of builds and timings then the Terran Macro mechanic. The Protoss mechanic also punishes you for using it in rapid succession as in general that could be better used on key structures and in general better timings. However the terran macro mechanic isn't useful in specific timings and in general it doesnt punish you at all for not using it. Its more of a bonus then a macro mechanic.
TLDR: The protoss mechanic already punishes you for not using it wisely while the terran one doesnt~
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On August 14 2010 01:53 KenShi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 01:47 MythicalMage wrote:
Please explain why you would make the Terran macro mechanic more punishing without changing the Protoss one. As the Protoss one is 50x deeper in terms of builds and timings then the Terran Macro mechanic. The Protoss mechanic also punishes you for using it in rapid succession as in general that could be better used on key structures and in general better timings. However the terran macro mechanic isn't useful in specific timings and in general it doesnt punish you at all for not using it. Its more of a bonus then a macro mechanic. TLDR: The protoss mechanic already punishes you for not using it wisely while the terran one doesnt~
The Terran does, and it's obvious you haven't played Terran. So, when I hit up a mule regularly, I am getting a steady controllable income that makes for controlled unit production. When I spam up a bunch, I have a big dip, and then a huge spike of income which leads to non optimal unit production, and generally floating resources as you can't spend the "spike" fast enough. It punishes you, just not as obviously.
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please explain why having 200/200 energy MULEs and using them at once is a problem yet having 2000/2000 resources and warping 20 stalkers in at once isn't.
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On August 14 2010 01:59 MythicalMage wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 01:53 KenShi wrote:On August 14 2010 01:47 MythicalMage wrote:
Please explain why you would make the Terran macro mechanic more punishing without changing the Protoss one. As the Protoss one is 50x deeper in terms of builds and timings then the Terran Macro mechanic. The Protoss mechanic also punishes you for using it in rapid succession as in general that could be better used on key structures and in general better timings. However the terran macro mechanic isn't useful in specific timings and in general it doesnt punish you at all for not using it. Its more of a bonus then a macro mechanic. TLDR: The protoss mechanic already punishes you for not using it wisely while the terran one doesnt~ The Terran does, and it's obvious you haven't played Terran. So, when I hit up a mule regularly, I am getting a steady controllable income that makes for controlled unit production. When I spam up a bunch, I have a big dip, and then a huge spike of income which leads to non optimal unit production, and generally floating resources as you can't spend the "spike" fast enough. It punishes you, just not as obviously.
No it doesn't punish you. Its blindfully easy to do and whether you mule or not it really isnt effective UNLESS ITS 20-40 SUPPLY IN THE EARLY GAME. Once you reach midgame or lategame it really doesnt matter if you mule constantly or not as again you have enough income to not make it matter and then you can just cast down 8 mules and boom, you have the same amount of money you would have had as if you did it constantly~ It really does not punish you at all if you dont mule regularly.
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On August 14 2010 02:05 mahnini wrote:
please explain why having 200/200 energy MULEs and using them at once is a problem yet having 2000/2000 resources and warping 20 stalkers in at once isn't.
Because ones a macro mechanic thats supposed to increase macro while the other one is macroing in general.
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On August 14 2010 02:07 KenShi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 01:59 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 01:53 KenShi wrote:On August 14 2010 01:47 MythicalMage wrote:
Please explain why you would make the Terran macro mechanic more punishing without changing the Protoss one. As the Protoss one is 50x deeper in terms of builds and timings then the Terran Macro mechanic. The Protoss mechanic also punishes you for using it in rapid succession as in general that could be better used on key structures and in general better timings. However the terran macro mechanic isn't useful in specific timings and in general it doesnt punish you at all for not using it. Its more of a bonus then a macro mechanic. TLDR: The protoss mechanic already punishes you for not using it wisely while the terran one doesnt~ The Terran does, and it's obvious you haven't played Terran. So, when I hit up a mule regularly, I am getting a steady controllable income that makes for controlled unit production. When I spam up a bunch, I have a big dip, and then a huge spike of income which leads to non optimal unit production, and generally floating resources as you can't spend the "spike" fast enough. It punishes you, just not as obviously. No it doesn't punish you. Its blindfully easy to do and whether you mule or not it really isnt effective UNLESS ITS 20-40 SUPPLY IN THE EARLY GAME. Once you reach midgame or lategame it really doesnt matter if you mule constantly or not as again you have enough income to not make it matter and then you can just cast down 8 mules and boom, you have the same amount of money you would have had as if you did it constantly~ It really does not punish you at all if you dont mule regularly.
You're speaking from what? Certainly not experience. So according to you, you can support the same number of buildings constantly producing units with or without muling? Well, I guess macro ISN'T a skill I need to have.
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On August 14 2010 02:05 mahnini wrote:
please explain why having 200/200 energy MULEs and using them at once is a problem yet having 2000/2000 resources and warping 20 stalkers in at once isn't.
To be fair, 2000/2000 isn't enough to afford 20 Stalkers, and having 20 Warp Gates ready to do this will happen in 1 out of probably a million games, and will probably never happen at high level because that would either require 1) upwards of 6 functioning and mining bases to support that level of production or 2) absolutely terrible macro.
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On August 14 2010 02:16 MythicalMage wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 02:07 KenShi wrote:On August 14 2010 01:59 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 01:53 KenShi wrote:On August 14 2010 01:47 MythicalMage wrote:
Please explain why you would make the Terran macro mechanic more punishing without changing the Protoss one. As the Protoss one is 50x deeper in terms of builds and timings then the Terran Macro mechanic. The Protoss mechanic also punishes you for using it in rapid succession as in general that could be better used on key structures and in general better timings. However the terran macro mechanic isn't useful in specific timings and in general it doesnt punish you at all for not using it. Its more of a bonus then a macro mechanic. TLDR: The protoss mechanic already punishes you for not using it wisely while the terran one doesnt~ The Terran does, and it's obvious you haven't played Terran. So, when I hit up a mule regularly, I am getting a steady controllable income that makes for controlled unit production. When I spam up a bunch, I have a big dip, and then a huge spike of income which leads to non optimal unit production, and generally floating resources as you can't spend the "spike" fast enough. It punishes you, just not as obviously. No it doesn't punish you. Its blindfully easy to do and whether you mule or not it really isnt effective UNLESS ITS 20-40 SUPPLY IN THE EARLY GAME. Once you reach midgame or lategame it really doesnt matter if you mule constantly or not as again you have enough income to not make it matter and then you can just cast down 8 mules and boom, you have the same amount of money you would have had as if you did it constantly~ It really does not punish you at all if you dont mule regularly. You're speaking from what? Certainly not experience. So according to you, you can support the same number of buildings constantly producing units with or without muling? Well, I guess macro ISN'T a skill I need to have.
What the hell are you talking about? Yes you can support generally the same amount of units without muling. Obviously muling helps, but first off it doesn't fufill its role of being a mechanic that takes more apm. Second off it doesnt punish Terrans enough if they don't do it constantly enough. It's supposed to be an APM sink, but if it doesnt fufill its only role then why is it in there? Theres a reason once it hits mid game that Terrans have about 150 energy on there CC's and thats because it really doesnt matter enough to waste APM on that abillity. Pretty much right now its a bonus not a fundamental skill that terrans need to have~
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On August 14 2010 02:28 KenShi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 02:16 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 02:07 KenShi wrote:On August 14 2010 01:59 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 01:53 KenShi wrote:On August 14 2010 01:47 MythicalMage wrote:
Please explain why you would make the Terran macro mechanic more punishing without changing the Protoss one. As the Protoss one is 50x deeper in terms of builds and timings then the Terran Macro mechanic. The Protoss mechanic also punishes you for using it in rapid succession as in general that could be better used on key structures and in general better timings. However the terran macro mechanic isn't useful in specific timings and in general it doesnt punish you at all for not using it. Its more of a bonus then a macro mechanic. TLDR: The protoss mechanic already punishes you for not using it wisely while the terran one doesnt~ The Terran does, and it's obvious you haven't played Terran. So, when I hit up a mule regularly, I am getting a steady controllable income that makes for controlled unit production. When I spam up a bunch, I have a big dip, and then a huge spike of income which leads to non optimal unit production, and generally floating resources as you can't spend the "spike" fast enough. It punishes you, just not as obviously. No it doesn't punish you. Its blindfully easy to do and whether you mule or not it really isnt effective UNLESS ITS 20-40 SUPPLY IN THE EARLY GAME. Once you reach midgame or lategame it really doesnt matter if you mule constantly or not as again you have enough income to not make it matter and then you can just cast down 8 mules and boom, you have the same amount of money you would have had as if you did it constantly~ It really does not punish you at all if you dont mule regularly. You're speaking from what? Certainly not experience. So according to you, you can support the same number of buildings constantly producing units with or without muling? Well, I guess macro ISN'T a skill I need to have. What the hell are you talking about? Yes you can support generally the same amount of units without muling. Obviously muling helps, but first off it doesn't fufill its role of being a mechanic that takes more apm. Second off it doesnt punish Terrans enough if they don't do it constantly enough. It's supposed to be an APM sink, but if it doesnt fufill its only role then why is it in there? Theres a reason once it hits mid game that Terrans have about 150 energy on there CC's and thats because it really doesnt matter enough to waste APM on that abillity. Pretty much right now its a bonus not a fundamental skill that terrans need to have~
This is one thing that is true that really needs to be pointed out. In the mid/late game, MULE's are almost useless and more of a waste because Scans are more valuable. Once you get your mineral lines fully saturated, then MULE's are basically unnecessary. MULE's main edge is the early game where T can't match P or Z worker production, but once you catch up, MULE's are an edge above the other two races in terms of mineral income.
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On August 14 2010 02:28 KenShi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 02:16 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 02:07 KenShi wrote:On August 14 2010 01:59 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 01:53 KenShi wrote:On August 14 2010 01:47 MythicalMage wrote:
Please explain why you would make the Terran macro mechanic more punishing without changing the Protoss one. As the Protoss one is 50x deeper in terms of builds and timings then the Terran Macro mechanic. The Protoss mechanic also punishes you for using it in rapid succession as in general that could be better used on key structures and in general better timings. However the terran macro mechanic isn't useful in specific timings and in general it doesnt punish you at all for not using it. Its more of a bonus then a macro mechanic. TLDR: The protoss mechanic already punishes you for not using it wisely while the terran one doesnt~ The Terran does, and it's obvious you haven't played Terran. So, when I hit up a mule regularly, I am getting a steady controllable income that makes for controlled unit production. When I spam up a bunch, I have a big dip, and then a huge spike of income which leads to non optimal unit production, and generally floating resources as you can't spend the "spike" fast enough. It punishes you, just not as obviously. No it doesn't punish you. Its blindfully easy to do and whether you mule or not it really isnt effective UNLESS ITS 20-40 SUPPLY IN THE EARLY GAME. Once you reach midgame or lategame it really doesnt matter if you mule constantly or not as again you have enough income to not make it matter and then you can just cast down 8 mules and boom, you have the same amount of money you would have had as if you did it constantly~ It really does not punish you at all if you dont mule regularly. You're speaking from what? Certainly not experience. So according to you, you can support the same number of buildings constantly producing units with or without muling? Well, I guess macro ISN'T a skill I need to have. What the hell are you talking about? Yes you can support generally the same amount of units without muling. Obviously muling helps, but first off it doesn't fufill its role of being a mechanic that takes more apm. Second off it doesnt punish Terrans enough if they don't do it constantly enough. It's supposed to be an APM sink, but if it doesnt fufill its only role then why is it in there? Theres a reason once it hits mid game that Terrans have about 150 energy on there CC's and thats because it really doesnt matter enough to waste APM on that abillity. Pretty much right now its a bonus not a fundamental skill that terrans need to have~
Muling is like taking an expansion. With it you can support more unit production, and without it you can support less. So yes, it does affect things drastically if you don't MULE, and if you MULE in a spike. Otherwise, Pros would just MULE when they had the time. The reason Terrrans save up energy, and I'd like replays or at least the general build the Terran was going, is for scans. Late game Terrans going anything other than pure bio don't need minerals any more, or rather don't need many minerals, so they save up for scans. It is a fundamental skill if you want to have enough stuff to win.
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On August 14 2010 02:31 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 02:28 KenShi wrote:On August 14 2010 02:16 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 02:07 KenShi wrote:On August 14 2010 01:59 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 01:53 KenShi wrote:On August 14 2010 01:47 MythicalMage wrote:
Please explain why you would make the Terran macro mechanic more punishing without changing the Protoss one. As the Protoss one is 50x deeper in terms of builds and timings then the Terran Macro mechanic. The Protoss mechanic also punishes you for using it in rapid succession as in general that could be better used on key structures and in general better timings. However the terran macro mechanic isn't useful in specific timings and in general it doesnt punish you at all for not using it. Its more of a bonus then a macro mechanic. TLDR: The protoss mechanic already punishes you for not using it wisely while the terran one doesnt~ The Terran does, and it's obvious you haven't played Terran. So, when I hit up a mule regularly, I am getting a steady controllable income that makes for controlled unit production. When I spam up a bunch, I have a big dip, and then a huge spike of income which leads to non optimal unit production, and generally floating resources as you can't spend the "spike" fast enough. It punishes you, just not as obviously. No it doesn't punish you. Its blindfully easy to do and whether you mule or not it really isnt effective UNLESS ITS 20-40 SUPPLY IN THE EARLY GAME. Once you reach midgame or lategame it really doesnt matter if you mule constantly or not as again you have enough income to not make it matter and then you can just cast down 8 mules and boom, you have the same amount of money you would have had as if you did it constantly~ It really does not punish you at all if you dont mule regularly. You're speaking from what? Certainly not experience. So according to you, you can support the same number of buildings constantly producing units with or without muling? Well, I guess macro ISN'T a skill I need to have. What the hell are you talking about? Yes you can support generally the same amount of units without muling. Obviously muling helps, but first off it doesn't fufill its role of being a mechanic that takes more apm. Second off it doesnt punish Terrans enough if they don't do it constantly enough. It's supposed to be an APM sink, but if it doesnt fufill its only role then why is it in there? Theres a reason once it hits mid game that Terrans have about 150 energy on there CC's and thats because it really doesnt matter enough to waste APM on that abillity. Pretty much right now its a bonus not a fundamental skill that terrans need to have~ This is one thing that is true that really needs to be pointed out. In the mid/late game, MULE's are almost useless and more of a waste because Scans are more valuable. Once you get your mineral lines fully saturated, then MULE's are basically unnecessary. MULE's main edge is the early game where T can't match P or Z worker production, but once you catch up, MULE's are an edge above the other two races in terms of mineral income.
Ish, but yeah that's generally true.
Actually, what would be nice would be an improved MULE, perhaps that could mine gas or perhaps that was just better overall, but had some punishment for using more than one at once. A cooldown is a bit much as it punishes worrying about burrowed/cloaked units (He moves one group of burrowed roaches, so you save up until you have turrets for example), but I dunno. Terran is really wierd as their main form of detection in the field, so to speak, early to mid game is the scan which is tied to their macro mechanic, the MULE.
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On August 14 2010 02:34 MythicalMage wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 02:28 KenShi wrote:On August 14 2010 02:16 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 02:07 KenShi wrote:On August 14 2010 01:59 MythicalMage wrote:On August 14 2010 01:53 KenShi wrote:On August 14 2010 01:47 MythicalMage wrote:
Please explain why you would make the Terran macro mechanic more punishing without changing the Protoss one. As the Protoss one is 50x deeper in terms of builds and timings then the Terran Macro mechanic. The Protoss mechanic also punishes you for using it in rapid succession as in general that could be better used on key structures and in general better timings. However the terran macro mechanic isn't useful in specific timings and in general it doesnt punish you at all for not using it. Its more of a bonus then a macro mechanic. TLDR: The protoss mechanic already punishes you for not using it wisely while the terran one doesnt~ The Terran does, and it's obvious you haven't played Terran. So, when I hit up a mule regularly, I am getting a steady controllable income that makes for controlled unit production. When I spam up a bunch, I have a big dip, and then a huge spike of income which leads to non optimal unit production, and generally floating resources as you can't spend the "spike" fast enough. It punishes you, just not as obviously. No it doesn't punish you. Its blindfully easy to do and whether you mule or not it really isnt effective UNLESS ITS 20-40 SUPPLY IN THE EARLY GAME. Once you reach midgame or lategame it really doesnt matter if you mule constantly or not as again you have enough income to not make it matter and then you can just cast down 8 mules and boom, you have the same amount of money you would have had as if you did it constantly~ It really does not punish you at all if you dont mule regularly. You're speaking from what? Certainly not experience. So according to you, you can support the same number of buildings constantly producing units with or without muling? Well, I guess macro ISN'T a skill I need to have. What the hell are you talking about? Yes you can support generally the same amount of units without muling. Obviously muling helps, but first off it doesn't fufill its role of being a mechanic that takes more apm. Second off it doesnt punish Terrans enough if they don't do it constantly enough. It's supposed to be an APM sink, but if it doesnt fufill its only role then why is it in there? Theres a reason once it hits mid game that Terrans have about 150 energy on there CC's and thats because it really doesnt matter enough to waste APM on that abillity. Pretty much right now its a bonus not a fundamental skill that terrans need to have~ Muling is like taking an expansion. With it you can support more unit production, and without it you can support less. So yes, it does affect things drastically if you don't MULE, and if you MULE in a spike. Otherwise, Pros would just MULE when they had the time. The reason Terrrans save up energy, and I'd like replays or at least the general build the Terran was going, is for scans. Late game Terrans going anything other than pure bio don't need minerals any more, or rather don't need many minerals, so they save up for scans. It is a fundamental skill if you want to have enough stuff to win.
No offence, but please just admit that your wrong. I get where your coming from, but you cannot compare the macro mechanics for Protoss and Zerg to Terran. Pros have 150+ energy as Terran because they forget to do it because honestly it isnt important. They dont "save up" energy on purpose they just forget to do it and then there like "huzzah" 12 mules~ Also mules in the mid/late game dont effect how much stuff you have. They dont gain gas and having an extra rax producing marines in the lategame doesnt mean much. I'm not saying its useless im saying it doesn't create extra APM and urgency for Macroing as Terran.
EDIT: for your above post unless i totally read it wrong i didn't put a cooldown on Scans only on mules
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So like it depends on the player, obviously, but into the midgame, I'd say MULEing consistently is super important for steady unit production. In late game, you're likely floating resources anyway, so it isn't as big of a deal. AND for mech play, you want it for scans. But yeah, as a macro mechanic, it fails as it loses utility. That's what I was trying to say: Give it a reason for existing in late game. As a Terran player, I can attest that if I forget to MULE even two times, I notice it in the ability to make units in the early game. Mid to late game, it becomes a bit fuzzy.
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So... a lot of Zerg players think that Terran is imba, but I don't think IdrA himself would condone these changes. I think even he would think that these changes are ridiculous.
Mutas are still a counter vs thors, you just have to have a little better micro and better spread.
Hellions weren't ment to be a good general unit, they were built (I'm assuming) with the intent of harass and micro intensive play, they counter plenty of unit comps as long as the unit comp of your army and control of your units are decent.
Turrets, Spore crawlers, cannons... all intent on making it very risky to do harass, the amount of damage they do to air is all intentional, you nerf the turrets like that then a group of 6 or so mutas can come in, rape your mineral line, then leave with very minimal losses since the space is too cramped by the base to put too much static defense.
I don't know how you can justify the nerf too the auto turrets,
Sensor towers are fine as is, since it tells you (the opponent) the range of what they cover, so good players will make it a priority to knock those out if the secrecy of troop movement is important to their composition.
Roaches being a 1.5 unit would end all ZvP games in the first 6 minutes.
Infestors spells are fine as is, they have plenty of very versitile spells, they don't need an additional.
That fast of a charge would make 1 base templar zlot very Very op because of the timings, if you do this then you just need 2 HT's and a big zlot ball and you rape the marine marauder ball of the terran, since this early in the game, it is so tiny, and if they go in with the feedback, makes med evacs pointless, and removes any possibility of damaging a unit with a HT, makes it a significantly weaker unit in regards to defending drops.
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On August 14 2010 02:47 Fractle wrote:
So... a lot of Zerg players think that Terran is imba, but I don't think IdrA himself would condone these changes. I think even he would think that these changes are ridiculous.
Mutas are still a counter vs thors, you just have to have a little better micro and better spread.
Hellions weren't ment to be a good general unit, they were built (I'm assuming) with the intent of harass and micro intensive play, they counter plenty of unit comps as long as the unit comp of your army and control of your units are decent.
Turrets, Spore crawlers, cannons... all intent on making it very risky to do harass, the amount of damage they do to air is all intentional, you nerf the turrets like that then a group of 6 or so mutas can come in, rape your mineral line, then leave with very minimal losses since the space is too cramped by the base to put too much static defense.
I don't know how you can justify the nerf too the auto turrets,
Sensor towers are fine as is, since it tells you (the opponent) the range of what they cover, so good players will make it a priority to knock those out if the secrecy of troop movement is important to their composition.
Roaches being a 1.5 unit would end all ZvP games in the first 6 minutes.
Infestors spells are fine as is, they have plenty of very versitile spells, they don't need an additional.
That fast of a charge would make 1 base templar zlot very Very op because of the timings, if you do this then you just need 2 HT's and a big zlot ball and you rape the marine marauder ball of the terran, since this early in the game, it is so tiny, and if they go in with the feedback, makes med evacs pointless, and removes any possibility of damaging a unit with a HT, makes it a significantly weaker unit in regards to defending drops.
I think IdrA would like these changes and alot of Zerg players would. Heck i think Protoss and Terran players would enjoy these changes~
Muta's dont counter Thors at all, this whole "spread them out thing is a joke in so many different ways. First off if you have a large amount of mutas its impossible to spread them in pretty much 90% of engagements with the 10 range of the thor. Second off you still get splash damage on about 3 of the mutas even if you have a single thor. If you have more then 4+ thors it doesnt even matter if you spread them or not cause there still gonna get oblitterated. Also while your spreading there marines tear up your mutas enough so that it doesnt matter. Pretty much it doesnt matter in 95% of scenarios.
Uh thats the point? There a complete hard counter unit that sucks balls against every other units. No they dont counter several different unit compositions they super hard counter light units and again suck balls against every other units.
Uh again thats the point?
Uh read the post?
Uh again thats the point? There range is too long as it covers too much space to avoid the range of the tower?
Uh not really? Considering it didn't work like that with 1 supply roaches i dont get where your coming from?
I guess fungal growth and a terrible mind control spell is a great spellcasting unit with diversity?
Uh you kinda adressed the problems in your response? Archons shouldn't be a joke unit and zealots with charge should soft counter a 1.5 unit ball as the protoss has the tech advantage?
Also its extremely obvious you have never played BW.
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On August 14 2010 01:38 mahnini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 01:11 KenShi wrote:On August 13 2010 07:11 GodIsNotHere wrote:On August 12 2010 07:18 ig0tfish wrote:
ITT: Nerf Terran to oblivion and buff zerg and protoss. Pretty much, looks like he basically shortened that other guys post. Uh not really. If you read the post at all you would have noticed that~ I've been gone for the last 2 days so i couldnt read all of your posts, but if you give me an actual arguement against my changes i can actually explain my reasoning instead of just stupid posts like this. please explain why 2 roaches for 1 larva is necessary and how implementing such an idea wouldn't drastically upset the current balance of larva management.
What if roahces morphed from zerglings costing 1 supply? I agree the 2 roaches from 1 larva is a bit nuts, but zerg larva management is balanced at best with perfect spawn larva management. Pure speedlings are able to fend off 4gate at your expo, and taking the time to get roaches if they morphed from lings could help a protoss who knows what hes doing (as opposed to zerg just cranking roaches on 1.5 supply to amove a heavy zlot/sentry 4gate). ZvT will actually have a point to early agression aside from bling bust since you can hace a roach at the terran wall before a hellion pops, and still expand normally. Early game is a lot more open for zerg.
Unless we just put roaches 1 larva 1.5 supply (which is much less creative), we can do it this way :D
otherwise those changes are whack to say the least.
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EPT
