• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:41
CEST 03:41
KST 10:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed10Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll4Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Who will win EWC 2025? The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Starcraft in widescreen A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 684 users

DeA Analyzes 2v2, SC and SC2

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Xeris
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Iran17695 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-27 21:03:22
June 27 2010 21:03 GMT
#1
This article was written by Fnatic.Moutas, better known as DeA, one of the top 2v2 players in the BW scene. He compares 2v2 in SC2 and SC!

The article can be found here:



Introduction


The first phase of the StarCraft II Beta has come and gone. Many lucky members of the online gaming community, including myself, have had the opportunity to play “the most anticipated game of all time”, as many gamers throughout the world believe. From day one up until the final hours of the beta, Blizzard kept us on our toes with numerous patches and balance updates that continuously changed the way StarCraft II was to be played. This game rightfully has set out to take its own unique place in the gaming community as a highly competitive e-sport, and most of us wouldn’t expect less from the successor of one of the most famous computer games of all time, StarCraft: Brood War.

Now is a good time to take a break and look back at what we have experienced during the few months of the beta stage. There are many articles, threads and discussions that cover the 1v1 section of StarCraft II, where players analyze strategies and debate on possible changes that may benefit the game. I believe that, due to the amount of these discussions, an article focused yet again on 1v1 would just recycle what has already been said numerous times by other members of the community, and make little to no impact on the current state of the game. Instead, I will attempt to cover and provide some “food for thought” on an equally important game type that most people may not consider as competitive.


Team Games


The 2v2 games have had their fair share of attention within the competitive StarCraft scene for many years now. Ladders, clan leagues and even the Korean Pro League have supported this type of team game, and in return we have viewed some very interesting matches and unique strategies that simply cannot be seen in solo games (Nada/Rock vs Boxer/GoRush anyone?). It is often considered as a stepping stone for beginners that enjoy playing StarCraft without having that much pressure compared to a 1v1 game. At the same time, the great depth of 2v2 and the numerous scenarios that may arise during a match makes this game type truly unique and equally as hard to learn and master as 1v1.

During the era of StarCraft: Brood War I considered myself as a 2v2 player. Competing on the most famous ladders such as ICCup, PGTour and WGTour was extremely fun, as it allowed me to learn a lot about the game while playing with and against the top players at the time. Once the beta came out, my natural instinct was to find out as much as possible about 2v2 in StarCraft II and the changes that came along with the new release. Quickly though I was disappointed, as I found out that the new features in team games had greatly destroyed some of the most important characteristics that describe team play. Communication, co-operation and individual player skill, are all core elements of not only 2v2 but team games in general, whether it be soccer, ice hockey or Counter-Strike. These elements have become less significant or even non-existent in StarCraft II, and I believe there is one key word that is responsible for this…



Sharing


In StarCraft II team games, you can share everything. Units, buildings, resources, bases, whatever a player requires from his/her team-mate can be easily passed over. This isn’t limited to the game’s elements that appear on the screen; you can also “share” your skills and mechanics in a not-so-apparent way. Although these features might allow players to develop new strategies and tactics, at the same time they remove some of the most essential elements of team games. Let’s look at the new features that have been implemented in StarCraft II and focus on how they affect the quality of 2v2.


a) Shared Control


By enabling shared control, players on the same team are allowed to command not only their own units and structures, but also those of their allies. At first this may seem like a good thing, but the fact is that the importance of co-ordination and communication has been severely degraded because of this feature. Players are no longer required to perform actions upon request from their ally. It has simply become an “I will do it myself” environment, which is clearly a characteristic of solo play. It doesn’t mean much if there are two or more players in the team. The fact that you can control the units of other players as if they were your own does not promote or encourage teams to develop good teamwork.

In order to become a top 2v2 team in SC:BW, players must not only know strategies, build orders and responses to possible outcomes, but they must also develop their collaboration skills so that they can synchronize their attacks perfectly, avoid flanks from the opposing team and provide help to their ally when needed. These things, amongst others, are what set apart the good teams from the bad ones. They are all traits that are necessary when playing with an ally. Since SC2 is a competitive game, 2v2 should be about two players responsible of their respective races, performing their own specific tasks while at the same time acting in unison towards a common goal; to defeat the opposing team. When a player can be in charge of both armies, the element of co-operation is negated and any notion of team work is simply bypassed, just so that no mistakes are made during the heat of battle due to miscommunication. If we also take into consideration that players can select hundreds of units within one control group, and that both players in a team always spawn at the closest spots (something that will be discussed later on), then it’s almost certain that one player will take full control of both armies once the troops of both team members meet up, which is extremely easy to do. For me, this does not display teamwork at all.

Another use of this feature that I believe steers the game in the wrong direction is when players “share their skills” with their allies. This can easily be understood with an example:

A 2v2 team consists of a Zerg player named “Zee” and a Terran player named “Tee”. Zee is an experienced veteran with decent mechanics, whereas Tee is new to the game and has very limited knowledge. Once their match begins, they plan to quickly attack their opponents. Tee rushes to Reapers while Zee opts for Zerglings and Banelings. Tee has produced units sooner than Zee and attacks first, but due to the fact that he is a beginner, his control is very sloppy and his harass isn’t very effective. This is where Zee decides to “share his skill”. Both players enable shared control and now the Terran’s Reapers can be controlled by Zee, who successfully harasses the opposing team’s mineral lines. At the same time, Zee is also producing a Zergling army which is quickly followed up by Banelings. Meanwhile, Tee isn’t participating in the battles at all. He is limited to keeping up the Reaper production so that Zee can continue pressuring their opponents. After a few minutes, the game ends with our hero team claiming victory thanks to the efforts of only one player. In a similar way to the example above, players can share their skills for numerous tasks, such as taking control of your ally’s scouting worker or repositioning your team-mate’s troops while they’re under attack.

The problem with the given example is that both players no longer have distinct roles that they are solely in charge of, nor are they equally contributing to their team. One player has intentionally taken over and executed tasks that should normally be carried out by his/her ally. If you think about other competitive team sports, such as a doubles match in tennis, a game of basketball or even Counter-Strike, this type of scenario never occurs. All players within the team have their own set of “tools” (tennis rackets, hands, etc) and they have their own unique skills (excellent backhand, good jump-shot, etc). When a tennis or basketball player possesses the ball, it is up to them to execute their role perfectly (return the ball to the opposite court, score a 3-pointer, etc) and their team-mates depend on them to do their part. Players are only capable of executing their role based on what they know. There is no such thing as “lending my serve skills” or “let me borrow your hands so I can score 3-pointers easier”. In team games, all players depend on each other and each player is a necessary figure within the team. If a player fails, then the team suffers. That is what team games are about. In StarCraft II, there is no such dependency. A bad player doesn’t weaken the team as it should. An army controlled by a beginner can easily be operated by an expert team-mate on a level much higher than the player’s capability. Why let your ally struggle with a task, such as microing a group of Mutalisks, when you can do it better yourself? They say “a team is only as good as its weakest member”. That is clearly not the case when playing 2v2 in StarCraft II.


b) Shared Resources


The next feature on our list of things to examine is shared resources. After the 5-minute mark, players are allowed to exchange any amount of minerals or gas with their allies without any additional cost. This feature greatly encourages teams to abuse the element of “feeding” which, in a similar way to shared control, could turn all team games, including 2v2, into a one-man show. Feeding occurs when one player of the team continuously sends resources to the other player that has been assigned the role of actually playing the game. So instead of 2v2, the game evolves into a 1v1 match where the designated “players” create enormous armies much faster than usual. They aren’t required to expand since they have their allies to do that for them. Timing is gone out the window, as players can no longer know what units are being massed or when to expect a sudden attack. This style of play could possibly become the only option available for 2v2 teams, and that clearly isn’t good news for a competitive game.

Not long ago, a member of the Team Liquid forum named “Vexx” created a topic about this subject that highlights the problems that occur due to this feature and the reasons why it destroys team games in StarCraft II. I couldn’t agree more with this post, so instead of rewriting things in my own words, I believe it would be best to read the full article here.

Another creative aspect of 2v2 games that has become extinct in SC2 because of shared resources is the tactic I like to call “translating”. This term describes the actions carried out by one player of a team (usually a player that has some sort of advantage) in order to balance the game or generate an advantage for their ally. Here are a few examples that demonstrate creative “translating” play by two teams in SC:BW (team 1 is ZT and team 2 is ZP):

• If the ZT team rushes and greatly damages the opponent Zerg player, a portion of the Protoss army can be sent to the Zerg ally for protection, which will allow the Zerg to recover. The Protoss player can also choose to counter-attack and damage an opponent, since they will have a much smaller army than Protoss.

• If Z1 has 10 Mutalisks and Z2 has only 5, the Zerg player of team 1 can use his/her Mutalisks to harass the Protoss mineral line and production facilities, so that the Terran player can slowly gain an economic and army advantage over the Protoss player.

Example 2 is one of the most standard “translations” that occur during a 2v2 game. The Z1 player may lose some Mutalisks and be on par with the Zerg opponent (both of which are on 1 base), but that previous Mutalisk advantage has now been “translated” into a Terran advantage over the Protoss, which greatly tilts the game into the ZT team’s favor.

Sharing resources is an uncreative and easy solution that can be carried out by basically anyone (beginners and experts) that wants to balance the game or gain an edge, and which in return makes team games extremely dull and boring to play. In SC:BW, teams went from attacking to defending and then back again, just so that they can get that much needed advantage in 2v2. The top teams could estimate the situation in any given circumstance and know exactly when they should attack or defend. This constant back and forth is what made 2v2 such a competitive game and also interesting to play, as there was so much action going on during the match, probably more than in 1v1 games. In SC2, there is no need for players to find unique tactics or special ways to utilize their army in order to create or nullify an advantage. With the shared resources feature, a couple of clicks generates the same result. Just send X amount of minerals or gas to your ally and you have successfully balanced the game, without having to think much about it. Even 1v2 scenarios can be avoided by sending out a few minerals to allies that have no main structure left. This no longer gives teams a good enough reason to quickly eliminate an opponent.


c) Spawning Positions


Some of you may have noticed that in 2v2 players no longer spawn at random locations. Obviously, on a shared bases map, players are meant to spawn right next to their ally, which is perfectly fine. But on all other 2v2 maps, such as Lost Temple or Metalopolis, players are always close to their allies and far away from their opponents (for example on Lost Temple, one team always spawns at the north and west bases, whereas the other team spawns at the east and south bases). This new pattern occurs on all maps, and it limits the possible strategies that can be used in 2v2. When playing 1v1 on a map with 4 starting locations, players respond differently and use specific strategies when their opponent is located at the X, Y or Z base. This results in a different style of gameplay every time. Shouldn’t 2v2 also feature this? Why were random positions removed from 2v2 in SC2?

In SC:BW players would spawn at random starting locations. If your base was close to your ally’s base, you could use strategy A or B. If you and your ally were at cross-positions (for example, one player at north and other at south on LT), strategy C or D would be a better option. This made 2v2 more interesting to play as there were numerous strategies that could be applied for any number of circumstances. An excellent example of a 2v2 map fully utilizing this pattern is “Iron Curtain”, which was used in the Korean Pro League a few years ago. This map is split by walls and minerals into two sections, left and right, and players were either on the same side of the map with their ally, or on opposite sides with an opponent. Teams had to take into consideration many variables when playing on this map (where is my ally, what races are my opponents, what to do if the opponent on my side is race X?) and this resulted in some very interesting matches and unique strategies.


Conclusion


Honestly, I am greatly disappointed in the way that 2v2, and all other team games, have turned out to be in SC2. A game of endless creativity, where players would often think outside the box and develop excellent teamwork to compete on a higher level, has now become an uninteresting game that is hardly a challenge to play. The basic elements that made 2v2 such a competitive game and entirely different than 1v1 no longer exist in StarCraft II. Teams are no longer required to find their own way of communicating, co-operating and planning ahead so that their strategies will shine through. By sharing your skills with allies, there are no longer any weaknesses that can be utilized by the opposing team to their benefit. The newly implemented functions are what steer the game into a direction where eventually there will be only one way to play team games. “Sharing” is what has truly hurt the competitive 2v2 scene.

With all these new added features, I’m left wondering what was so wrong with team games in SC:BW that required them to be altered so much. Changes shouldn’t be made just for the sake of it, especially when in SC:BW, 2v2 has been proven countless times to be an extremely competitive game type, probably on the same level as 1v1 matches.

For me, there is only one solution; remove shared control along with shared resources, and also make players spawn at completely random starting locations.

Now is the time for Blizzard to listen up and hear for once what the top 2v2 players have to say about the development of what could be the most competitive computer game of all time, StarCraft II.



*Special thanks to Tenryu, my main SC:BW ally and good friend, for helping me complete this article
twitter.com/xerislight -- follow me~~
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-27 21:24:02
June 27 2010 21:14 GMT
#2
On June 28 2010 06:03 Xeris wrote:
c) Spawning Positions


Some of you may have noticed that in 2v2 players no longer spawn at random locations. Obviously, on a shared bases map, players are meant to spawn right next to their ally, which is perfectly fine. But on all other 2v2 maps, such as Lost Temple or Metalopolis, players are always close to their allies and far away from their opponents (for example on Lost Temple, one team always spawns at the north and west bases, whereas the other team spawns at the east and south bases). This new pattern occurs on all maps, and it limits the possible strategies that can be used in 2v2. When playing 1v1 on a map with 4 starting locations, players respond differently and use specific strategies when their opponent is located at the X, Y or Z base. This results in a different style of gameplay every time. Shouldn’t 2v2 also feature this? Why were random positions removed from 2v2 in SC2?

In SC:BW players would spawn at random starting locations. If your base was close to your ally’s base, you could use strategy A or B. If you and your ally were at cross-positions (for example, one player at north and other at south on LT), strategy C or D would be a better option. This made 2v2 more interesting to play as there were numerous strategies that could be applied for any number of circumstances. An excellent example of a 2v2 map fully utilizing this pattern is “Iron Curtain”, which was used in the Korean Pro League a few years ago. This map is split by walls and minerals into two sections, left and right, and players were either on the same side of the map with their ally, or on opposite sides with an opponent. Teams had to take into consideration many variables when playing on this map (where is my ally, what races are my opponents, what to do if the opponent on my side is race X?) and this resulted in some very interesting matches and unique strategies.


This, imo, is everything that was wrong with BW 2v2 and why they removed it. If you start too far away from your ally, the game comes down to massing low-tech units. Watch the 2v2 EU vs US game going on right now. A BW 2v2 would never reach this tech level.

Also, SC2 improves the balance since ZZ no longer beats everything and you no longer even need a zerg.
Chronocide
Profile Joined August 2007
United States126 Posts
June 27 2010 21:22 GMT
#3
I was really hoping this article would contain some unique insight into SC2 2v2 instead of being just another rambling complaint. disappointed
"I quickly scanned the area, and saw no observers, so I locked-down as many scouts as I could with my Ghosts, and ordered one to nuke them" -mrxak
Alou
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States3748 Posts
June 27 2010 21:29 GMT
#4
Seems like DeA is just looking at the situation negatively. Yes, things have changed and certain things are no longer possible, but new things are also possible. 2v2 is still fun and competitive as the current 2v2 show match demonstrates. I disagree with this article.
Life is Good.
Tenryu
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States565 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-27 21:42:49
June 27 2010 21:41 GMT
#5
On June 28 2010 06:14 jalstar wrote:
Also, SC2 improves the balance since ZZ no longer beats everything and you no longer even need a zerg.



Umm.. i havent played SC2 yet but i can tell you that in SC1 ZZ isnt unbeatable. Actually infact, me and my allies best matchup is vs ZZ, not to mention ive won alot 1v2's vs ZZ. I enjoy playing vs ZZ more then any other matchup because i know im going to win. So try to comment on things you know first.
http://myanimelist.net/profile/Understar
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10006 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-27 21:54:54
June 27 2010 21:44 GMT
#6
progamer lvl zz is unbeatable
and i also think shared ressources + unit control should be removed, their just silly commands that blizz added to the game in order to show that they actually did something
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
June 27 2010 21:44 GMT
#7
On June 28 2010 06:41 Tenryu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2010 06:14 jalstar wrote:
Also, SC2 improves the balance since ZZ no longer beats everything and you no longer even need a zerg.



Umm.. i havent played SC2 yet but i can tell you that in SC1 ZZ isnt unbeatable. Actually infact, me and my allies best matchup is vs ZZ, not to mention ive won alot 1v2's vs ZZ. I enjoy playing vs ZZ more then any other matchup because i know im going to win. So try to comment on things you know first.


Proleague banned ZZ, it was not balanced at a high level so I don't care if you beat 2 newb zergs by yourself.
Kyouya
Profile Joined January 2008
Mexico318 Posts
June 27 2010 21:47 GMT
#8
On June 28 2010 06:22 Chronocide wrote:
I was really hoping this article would contain some unique insight into SC2 2v2 instead of being just another rambling complaint. disappointed

Yes i feel the same, also like the Jalstar says you no longer need a zerg in the team to be "competitive", or the godly ZZ this is a really good feature IMO, now you can team with any race and be a very good combo.
Strike First, Strike Hard, Show No Mercy.
Tenryu
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States565 Posts
June 27 2010 21:51 GMT
#9
Ok, if u guys say ZZ was imba in SC1 then so be it. But that has nothing to do with this article. This article speaks about the new features that are implemented into teamplay for SC2, Shared Resources, Shared Control and the spawning locations on the maps. Neither of these new features have anything to do with the balancing of the team matchups. The balancing of the team matchups are within the new units implemented in the SC2 itself.
http://myanimelist.net/profile/Understar
cubert
Profile Joined June 2010
Russian Federation94 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-27 22:18:19
June 27 2010 22:17 GMT
#10
Strange to hear from top-level player example from "a". I don't think that shared control is bad, when players has the same level.
I absolutely agree with "b" and "c". It's not wc3, where players shared around 100 gold or gas, because sharing all resourses isn't good deal.
I don't like also this turtling maps (twilight, scorched, coalition), which kills 2x2 action. Most of games ends on one battle in the center.
But 2x2 in sc2 is still funny, here is more strategies and usable units than in bw.

no longer need a zerg

Without zerg you will get much troubles, when your opponents kill one of you with proxy reapers and fast lings. 50%+ TZ make this in the ladder.
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
June 27 2010 22:23 GMT
#11
I think the resource sharing would be fine if they implemented a sort of "tax" like how Age of Empires II did it. In that game, for example, if you wanted if you sent 100 wood to your ally, he'd only get ~60 wood.

In that game you'd also need a marketplace to do it (which prevented resource trading at the beginning of the game because you needed the feudal era I believe to build it), and you could also research ways to lower the tax tariffs, (aka after first research, tax would be lowered from 40% to 20%, then again from 20% to 10%, and finally no tariff at all like in SC2).

I realize it'd be a little too complex for SC2 and thus a flat rate that doesn't change throughout the game and can be used whenever (well after the first 5 minutes) would be ideal. I think if you transfer 100 minerals, the ally should get around 75. 25% lost is equal to the 25% lost from constructing buildings and cancelling, seems like a good number. That way it'd only be used in desperation or to develop timing attacks, rather than one player go pure econ and another go pure army.
Lemure
Profile Joined March 2010
189 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-27 22:34:22
June 27 2010 22:32 GMT
#12
I think feeding ruins 2v2 or any team matches, feeding was what made team games boring in WC3, at 3v3 or higher it gets even more ridiculous. It's one thing to give someone extra resources to build extra mutas or to rebuild their destroyed Nexus but it completely ruins it if one player mainly gathers resources to feed the other player who is mainly massing units.
Xeris
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Iran17695 Posts
June 27 2010 22:39 GMT
#13
On June 28 2010 06:44 jalstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2010 06:41 Tenryu wrote:
On June 28 2010 06:14 jalstar wrote:
Also, SC2 improves the balance since ZZ no longer beats everything and you no longer even need a zerg.



Umm.. i havent played SC2 yet but i can tell you that in SC1 ZZ isnt unbeatable. Actually infact, me and my allies best matchup is vs ZZ, not to mention ive won alot 1v2's vs ZZ. I enjoy playing vs ZZ more then any other matchup because i know im going to win. So try to comment on things you know first.


Proleague banned ZZ, it was not balanced at a high level so I don't care if you beat 2 newb zergs by yourself.


Considering you can count on your hands the number of non-Koreans that played professionally in Korea, so basically you're just saying that you have no idea of the skill of the players or of the community that this entire article is geared towards. None of us are ever going to match Koreans pros, but we can match with non Korean pros, and this article is aimed at that segment of the population.
twitter.com/xerislight -- follow me~~
petered
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1817 Posts
June 27 2010 22:46 GMT
#14
Appreciate the thoughts but disagree with the analysis.

Your first point (a) is a non issue at higher levels. It will always advantageous to split up focus as much as possible in order to get as much APM as possible between the two players. On the ladder, where this may be an issue, I highly doubt that players will give over control of their units for the most part, since it wouldn't be any fun for them. Besides, the player who is good would have to be way way better than both his opponents, since he is responsible for so many more tasks.

I can see (b) being an issue, but it will at least create some interesting strategies, which you didn't acknowledge at all.

For the most part I think (c) is a good thing, actually. Close positions are really pretty boring since the game is all about attacking and counterattacking with tier one units. The set position thing really opens up a whole new aspect of macro in 2v2s.

This, my friends, is the power of the Shikyo Memorial for QQ therapy thread. We make the world a better place, one chainsaw massacre prevention at a time.
Kyhol
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2574 Posts
June 27 2010 22:50 GMT
#15
Dea, heh, more like DegAy.
Yeah this is sort of a hatefest, but i agree with some parts. I don't like the sharing of minerals or the unit control. It's easy to stop this is tournaments though, as long as blizzard imposes something where u can see if they turn it on.
Wishing you well.
TBO
Profile Joined September 2009
Germany1350 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-27 22:52:51
June 27 2010 22:51 GMT
#16
shared control is imo not much of an issue as the way it is implemented is pretty bad and leads to more confusion than it helps in most situations.

Shared Resources is definitely something they should consider removing though or at least impose a tax on it or something. I mean right now this 5 Minute countdown is already completely arbitrary and inconsequential, showing they know that there is some problem in the early game - and if there is a problem in the early game with it, it isn't just vanishing after 5 minutes.
kAra
Profile Joined September 2004
Germany1361 Posts
June 27 2010 22:52 GMT
#17
agreed on everything, 2x2 just got soooooo much easier lets hope they wont keep it that easy
mada mada dane
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10006 Posts
June 27 2010 22:53 GMT
#18
impose a tax..? this is sc not sim city
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
TBO
Profile Joined September 2009
Germany1350 Posts
June 27 2010 22:54 GMT
#19
well the 5 minute thing is as arbitrary as a tax.
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
June 27 2010 22:59 GMT
#20
Close spawn positions for allies is an improvement. As for the other points, I don't really have an opinion.
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Monday
00:00
#40
CranKy Ducklings184
EnkiAlexander 79
davetesta38
rockletztv 33
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 210
RuFF_SC2 147
Livibee 97
CosmosSc2 41
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 739
MaD[AoV]35
Icarus 9
Britney 0
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm125
League of Legends
Cuddl3bear3
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 210
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox466
Mew2King105
AZ_Axe81
Other Games
summit1g13225
shahzam1084
Day[9].tv832
ViBE247
C9.Mang0190
Maynarde144
Trikslyr69
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3139
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH166
• OhrlRock 1
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4041
• TFBlade773
Other Games
• Scarra1256
• Day9tv832
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
14h 19m
Replay Cast
22h 19m
The PondCast
1d 8h
OSC
1d 11h
WardiTV European League
1d 14h
Replay Cast
1d 22h
Epic.LAN
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
CSO Contender
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Online Event
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Esports World Cup
6 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.