• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 23:16
CET 05:16
KST 13:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)8Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns6[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) WardiTV Winter Cup WardiTV Mondays SC2 AI Tournament 2026 OSC Season 13 World Championship
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution
Brood War
General
Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I would like to say something about StarCraft BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Mechabellum Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Psychological Factors That D…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1907 users

[SC2 Map] Neo Kulas Ravine

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
VelRa_G
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada304 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-10 21:29:19
June 10 2010 01:56 GMT
#1
Hello TLers! Inspired by the SC2 Map Redesign contest, I have revised Kulas Ravine.

When Blizzard's map designers made Kulas Ravine, I believe they set out to create a map that had it all. The result? A map with TWELVE destructible rocks, TEN watchtowers, and HUNDREDS of doodads on top of a complex terrain that, theoretically, would provide players with a versatile and extremely fun map.

I don't believe that Blizzard achieved this. Less is often more, and players reacted to Kulas Ravine (largely) negatively before balance issues were considered.

The redesign process began with the following beliefs:

1) The natural expansions are very difficult to defend. Located far from mains, exposed, and vulnerable to aggressive cliffing, it was common to see one base play in beta.

2) The middle area of the map is cramped and tricky. Players often feel safer to remain in their bases than to move into the middle. The middle should be easier and more rewarding to navigate.

3) Performance issues are more frequent on Kulas Ravine than other 1v1 maps, since it is large and full-action busy with animated doodads and lots of them. Removing significant numbers to increase performance without undermining the beauty of the map is necessary to alleviate these issues.

Neo Kulas Ravine 2.0
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Old version (with original changes marked):
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Major Changes:

+ Show Spoiler +
1) Destructible rocks into high ground expansion have been removed. Ramps on the inside 3 and 9 to the high ground expansions have also been removed. Players now have an in-base natural expansion. The mineral line has been repositioned so that it is more vulnerable to harass from the low-ground. Neo Kulas Ravine supports games that proceed into mid- and late-game, but still rewards well-executed early game aggression.

2) The 12 and 6 high-grounds are now smaller and have been pushed out of the middle of the map. The terrain around the central watchtowers has been revised. The middle portion of the map is significantly larger, able to accomodate large armies. The accessibility of the two watchtowers makes it look and feel like a proper battlefield.


Minor Changes:
+ Show Spoiler +

1) Hundreds of doodads and 90% of animated doodads have been removed. I bet you didn't notice.

2) The little patches of water outside of the inside 3rd expansions have shrunk. The cliffs beside the high yield expansions have also slightly reduced in size. These changes further increase the size of the middle.

3) The cliffs beside the high yield expansions no longer support units.

4) The 3rd inside mineral line has been repositioned so that it is less exposed to cliffing, but is still exposed.

5) Removed two watchtowers at 12 and six and centered the remaining. The remaining watchtowers now have vision of two expansions.


Version 2.0 changes:

+ Show Spoiler +
1) Got rid of pesky tree at top right choke.

2) Shifted the central watchtowers and 12 and 16 cliffs further from the middle to open it up more yet.

3) Pocket behind 3rd expansion now has a doodad and building blockers to prevent proxies in that location. Players have other options for cheese if they insist, but this one was far too out of the way.


In conclusion, I believe that Neo Kulas Ravine allows for funner and more balanced games than the original. I will listen to your comments and modify the map accordingly.

Response to feedback:

+ Show Spoiler +
- There have been mixed responses to the in-base expansion, but the feedback is generally good. I stand behind the decision, since there is currently no map in the ladder pool with one and Kulas Ravine is a very suitable map for it. Additionally, as the metagame develops and players learn to counter aggressive builds with economic ones, this sort of change will be desired in the same way it was in BW on maps like Colisseum 2.
- I wholly disagree that the new design poses more of a problem for zerg than the original.
- Thanks to all! I will have a playable download soon so you can feel the changes! For now, let me know if you agree with these changes and feel that Blizzard should revise Kulas Ravine along these lines.


Poll: Blizzard should revise Kulas Ravine along these lines

No (28)
 
80%

Yes (7)
 
20%

35 total votes

Your vote: Blizzard should revise Kulas Ravine along these lines

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No


Nuda Veritas
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
June 10 2010 02:03 GMT
#2
i like it alot, when beta comes back up i believe ill give it a try
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
jamesr12
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1549 Posts
June 10 2010 02:03 GMT
#3
hate in base expansions, I say put the ramp back but other then that I like it. Really like what you did with the middle, I might make it even more it open by moving the side towers closer to the gold expansions. And remove the damn tree at the top right starting postion choke, that thing is so anoying
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306479
andeh
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States904 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-10 02:12:03
June 10 2010 02:03 GMT
#4
i like it, the easy 3 bases obviously resembles colloseum2 in a way
any map that doesnt encourage 1 base play is good
RogerChillingworth
Profile Joined March 2010
Chad3099 Posts
June 10 2010 02:05 GMT
#5
I like how you got rid of the destructible rocks to your high-ground natural. Not sure how I feel about the change to the mineral patches' location, though. Could open up a just-as-annoying door of abuse. Much better overall, though.
Zombee
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany69 Posts
June 10 2010 02:06 GMT
#6
not sure about that inbase expo either, despite that it really looks like 10 times better than the original
AssuredVacancy
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1167 Posts
June 10 2010 02:06 GMT
#7
Maybe make the in base expo mineral only? Seems really easy to get 6 gas in this, and so gas heavy builds like mass muta might become overpowered.
We spend our youth attaining wealth, and our wealth attaining youth.
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
June 10 2010 02:09 GMT
#8
Nice. Liking it. E-mail it to blue
t3tsubo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada682 Posts
June 10 2010 02:12 GMT
#9
I liked the original kulas ravine, it was probably the most avant garde and new out of all the blizzard maps even if there was room for abuse. All it did was promote a much later expansion unless one could really defend an expo properly.
Silent12ill
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States358 Posts
June 10 2010 02:12 GMT
#10
map looks great studying it anyways just to get used to making pre game plans of areas to hold for my best interest
BlitZl0l
Profile Joined May 2010
United States32 Posts
June 10 2010 02:13 GMT
#11
Like:
High ground changes
More open battlefield
Destructible rocks gone
Large choke outside of nat

Dislikes:
May be too zerg friendly (consider roating and scooting back the expo a bit to allow easier assault)
Area behind nat is just cheese alley
Owned.
slowmanrunning
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada285 Posts
June 10 2010 02:13 GMT
#12
Someone needs to show this to blizzard, on the remotest chance they decide to use this instead of kulas ravine.

HATE THAT MAP

Neo Incineration zone next?
I aim to become a hydralisk and then stop posting, cause I don't wanna be a queen...
Deleted User 31060
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
3788 Posts
June 10 2010 02:15 GMT
#13
these changes look very well informed and address many of the common exploits of this map, good job sir.
Peaked at C- on ICCUP and proud of it! @Sunyveil
Zombee
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany69 Posts
June 10 2010 02:19 GMT
#14
not sure about that inbase expo either, despite that it really looks like 10 times better than the original
awol
Profile Joined March 2008
Australia79 Posts
June 10 2010 02:32 GMT
#15
Looks great! Kulas Ravine is one of my favourite maps, these changes improve it vastly. Without the rocks, I think people will just take the inbase expo, so that may change the way this map is played..
I ain't no superstar.
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
June 10 2010 02:49 GMT
#16
The one thing I don't like is the removal of the rocks on the other side of your in-base base (really dont know how to say it). I do like how you can take that expo easy now because there's no rocks in your base to slow you down but I don't like it how its invincible. Just my thoughts.
FortuneSyn
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
1826 Posts
June 10 2010 03:03 GMT
#17
Excellent!!!! I can really tell that you always had the flaws of the original kulas in mind when redesigning the map. Very focused and well-informed changes.

The middle looks so much better, and it will be so fun to experiment with this new in-base natural. I really like it.
prodiG
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada2016 Posts
June 10 2010 03:09 GMT
#18
I like this a lot more than the original, nice work
ESV Mapmaking Team || http://twitter.com/prodiGsc || Real talk, I don't have time to sugar-coat it for you sir
Wr3k
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2533 Posts
June 10 2010 03:13 GMT
#19
This is worse than before for Z, without the rocks providing a ground path to the other expansions Z has no way to safely get a 3rd vs terran or defend their own 3rd due to cliff drops.
FortuneSyn
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
1826 Posts
June 10 2010 03:20 GMT
#20
On June 10 2010 12:13 Wr3k wrote:
This is worse than before for Z, without the rocks providing a ground path to the other expansions Z has no way to safely get a 3rd vs terran or defend their own 3rd due to cliff drops.


I don't see how the cliff is more of a problem now than it was before. Taking the gold mineral as third that's farther away from T is always another option, and creep can be safely spread to there.
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
AI Arena Tournament
20:00
Swiss - Round 1
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft509
RuFF_SC2 213
NeuroSwarm 171
FoxeR 43
Ketroc 28
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 2322
Shuttle 161
Noble 21
Bale 3
Dota 2
monkeys_forever202
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 798
Counter-Strike
summit1g8362
fl0m4575
m0e_tv310
minikerr36
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King68
Other Games
tarik_tv6039
ViBE118
PiLiPiLi13
Liquid`Ken10
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick51714
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 99
Other Games
BasetradeTV96
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 16
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV680
League of Legends
• Doublelift7173
• Scarra2008
• Stunt178
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
8h 45m
ByuN vs Percival
Percival vs Rogue
Percival vs Classic
ByuN vs Classic
ByuN vs Rogue
Classic vs Rogue
IPSL
15h 45m
DragOn vs Sziky
Replay Cast
1d 4h
Wardi Open
1d 7h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 12h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
All Star Teams
5 days
INnoVation vs soO
sOs vs Scarlett
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
[ Show More ]
All Star Teams
6 days
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-10
Big Gabe Cup #3
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.