EPTEarly,Mid,Late Game Race Dominance - Page 2
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
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DonBotwin
Canada15 Posts
Zerg lategame > all in my experiance but it's very hard to get there without staying ahead all game. Tanks shoot super fast and way better AI than sc1, they can't really be dealt with effectively to be dealt with effectively without either holding their numbers back through constant roach/ling pressure to keep numbers down or broodlords (the only reasonably effective way to draw tank fire for your roaches/lings is by using broodling, several tanks melt ANY ground army even with limited support). My personal final verdict: T>P all phases of the game, there's usually 1 scary protoss push but in general ghosts > protoss. P=Z all phases of the game T>Z early-mid game, Z>T lategame All advantages can be overcome through many other areas of personal skill/strategy, except incineration zone, that map is pretty rofl for the swarm -_-; | ||
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allyourbase
United States243 Posts
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
On June 05 2010 03:20 Backpack wrote: They're all balanced IMO. Isn't that the idea? ahhh, there can never be enough optimism  | ||
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TelecoM
United States10668 Posts
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
ZvP Early: Z Mid: Even Late: P Z has the luxury of either early pressure or drone powering early. Once P can tech void rays/collosi and/or build up for a push, P catches up. At the same time, however, Z still has lots of harrass options and is strong vs the P army on open ground if they've scouted well and built an army. I think things swing slightly to P late game when P has secured a third, is able to construct critical masses of void rays/collosi and sentries to split an army. They also have extremely fast reinforce with warp gates. ZvT Early: T Mid: Z Late: T T has a lot of harass or all-in options early which can sometimes be tough to scout. Zerg usually has a midgame timing when muta harass or other map control is easy and zerg can safely macro a bit. Late game, the high damage output and range of many T units makes an extremely tough ball to crack which usually has to be combated indirectly. | ||
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Zoltan
United States656 Posts
On June 05 2010 04:23 MoreFasho wrote: I'm pretty sure I shouldn't even respond to this, but whether or not your ZvT lategame analysis is correct (I do happen to disagree) you can't possibly believe that ling hydra broodlord is a good unit composition against tank viking thor, you need like 6-8 tanks to hold off infinity lings and hyras and the vikings and thors will then just clean up the broodlords (which are good units, but only when they can be defended). Also to talk about map control with hydras and broodlords AND map control makes no sense, those are the slowest units for zerg, those are NOT map control units. Even though hydra bl is slow- on creep hydras are pretty fast. Zerg should be able to have creep on most of the map. All the zerg should be doing is surrounding the terran on 2 (or even 3) bases, and forcing him to try to push out against the broodlords. The only chance terran has is a slow march into zerg territory( slowly moving tanks forawrd while covering them with vikings). The vikings cant go farther than tank range because they will get killed by hydras. Not impossible but also not easy, with the zerg being able to do serious damage to the T back line if the T overextends to far. In retrospect the balance is fairly even, but i do think that Z has the advantage simply because they can take more bases faster than the terran player can, and is more mobile once set up on 3+ bases. | ||
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sage22
7 Posts
On June 05 2010 05:42 3clipse wrote: I can only speak for zerg matchups, of course. ZvP Early: Z Mid: Even Late: P Z has the luxury of either early pressure or drone powering early. Once P can tech void rays/collosi and/or build up for a push, P catches up. At the same time, however, Z still has lots of harrass options and is strong vs the P army on open ground if they've scouted well and built an army. I think things swing slightly to P late game when P has secured a third, is able to construct critical masses of void rays/collosi and sentries to split an army. They also have extremely fast reinforce with warp gates. ZvT Early: T Mid: Z Late: T T has a lot of harass or all-in options early which can sometimes be tough to scout. Zerg usually has a midgame timing when muta harass or other map control is easy and zerg can safely macro a bit. Late game, the high damage output and range of many T units makes an extremely tough ball to crack which usually has to be combated indirectly. I completely agree with this. I play protoss and was a high level diamond player (before wipe... not that that says all that much) PvZ For me this matchup was really just all about scouting. Lings come out earlier than Zeals and ling all ins or run-by's can be a pain to deal with if you aren't properly walled. Towards the mid game I'd give Z a slight advantage but that's mainly due to the power of muta harass. P needs to scout constantly to see if that expo is coming up and how many gasses are up in the main. By the late game if I've reached critical mass of Colossi (Coloxen?) then that's pretty much gg for the zerg. PvT I'd say: Early: T - Reaper or Marauder harass Mid: P - 4 gate, 3 gate robo, VR rush, 3 gate phoenix Late: T - Critical mass in tanks > any ground army. And protoss air generally has a hard time vs T due to Vikings and Marines Early game it can be a huge gamble for protoss. Standard play has P not wall off and go for a quick cyber -> stalker. This is fine if he reaper rushes you, but I've been caught off guard with a proxy marauder before and as you all know a marauder will slap a stalker silly. You basically have to hold off until your next zeal comes but sometimes they will basically all in with those marauders and then what can you do? Stalkers dont work and zealots get kited. Towards Mid game the matchup swings back in favor of the Protoss as there are plenty of options available and their army is just now starting to get scary. Late, unless the P pulls a complete techswitch and calls in the Protoss air fleet, they will just get annihilated by siege tanks + ghost support. And really to fund a heavy air tech switch P needs 3+ bases. If the T goes MMM, it is much much easier to deal with, but those damn tanks really screw up everything. TvZ Early: T Mid: Z Late: T (unless Z gambles and goes for BLs) If you haven't seen them, search for qxc vs sheth. These replays show without a shadow of a doubt that late game Z ground army has NO chance whatsoever against an entrenched T. I believe sheth threw 3 200/200 armies at qxc. Sheth lost his army every time (including ultras) while qxc dropped something like 10 supply and qxc had like 16 siege tanks just chillin in his main not even in the fight. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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