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On May 23 2010 06:48 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 05:51 Two_DoWn wrote:On May 23 2010 01:16 Uriel_SVK wrote:On May 23 2010 00:59 SichuanPanda wrote:
Ever since WoW came out it seems like Blizzard has forgot how to do networking or hire competent networking staff. Every single week without fail WoW comes down for 'some maintenance' as a network admin myself I can safely say a load-balanced network appropriate to the number of users connecting should not need weekly maintenance or even monthly maintenance, in fact the only thing I have ever to do with servers I run is a restart every now and then, which takes ~ 15 minutes per server. With remote server consoles you can easily restart all your servers simultaneously. But yet Blizzard still finds a way to take WoW servers offline every week, every Tuesday for extended periods of time.
Sadly, it appears that this trend is moving towards SC2 already in Beta. Now don't get me wrong extended down times in a Beta are to be expected. I guess. I say this because Blizzard knows EXACTLY how many users are connecting because they know how many keys they have given out as well as access logs etc. - that said and as a result should easily be able to determine how much network access is needed to support the users, massive random server lag shouldn't happen. But it did in WoW Beta and first few days of release, and we can almost be 100% assured it will in SC2. This also comes with the random 'service updates' which Blizzard releases in both games already quite frequently, on WoW these are server side completely and you don't even download a patch. However every time, every single time Blizzard releases a patch on WoW there's extended downtime for 'an forseen issue' - I really hope this trend is not continuing into SC2. N Patch 13 was major patch thad did somes changes to improve latency and lag. Might be something went wrong there. I think most patches in the future will have nothing to do with this type of changes. For the weekly maintenance - its pretty common for every MMO not just WOW, so i dont believe it wold be because of Blizzard staff incompetence lol you just said that blizzard improved lag in the new patch. No, he said that Patch 13 was a major patch which made changes to improve latency and lag. That is all true. There were changes done in hopes of it helping. We should all be extremely excited that Blizzard is doing this. I think a lot of people don't quite understand what it is that caused this, so I will do my best to make it in a more easily understood way. Basically, the old sort of networking stuff that Blizzard had (TCP) was a slow, outdated, silly sort of network thing to use. Lots of other games use UDP, and as a result, they have much better ping and way less lag. We have wanted Blizzard to modernize their games and go to UDP, but they have just stuck with TCP. Now, they are ready to make the change to UDP. This is suuuuch a good thing. Sure, its buggy and messed up now, but it will be much better later on. This is an investment in a much better online environment in the days to come.
I'm not sure I would call TCP slow or outdated compared to UDP. They're both layers that run on top of the basic Internet Protocol that allows packets of data to be send across the internet. IP fundamentally does not make guarantees about those packets actually arriving, which is where something like TCP comes in. It tries to 'fake' a more reliable connection by doing things like send acknowledgments if packets are received and resending things if they aren't acknowledged.
UDP is a much thinner layer on top of the Internet Protocol, adds ports to distinguish different connections on the same computer and that's about it. So it retains the basic 'no guarantees' nature of IP. What games using UDP usually really means is not that they don't want they extra layer reliability, but rather that they want to build that layer themselves. With TCP you can't decide when to not resend a packet or if you want to slow down the connection or not if some packets get lost; TCP decides it for you.
So its not so much that UDP is better than TCP, by itself it is actually worse. It's that UDP allows for a TCP equivalent tuned towards a game to be build on top of it.
Sorry if I'm being pedantic, felt like sharing what I remembered from my networking class. 
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Yeah, I'm just going to wait until they clear this mess up to play any more. During patch 11 I got a ridiculous amount of crashes, forcing me to do hard shut-downs and ultimately frying my power source and a harddrive.
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On May 23 2010 09:22 Aether wrote:
Yeah, I'm just going to wait until they clear this mess up to play any more. During patch 11 I got a ridiculous amount of crashes, forcing me to do hard shut-downs and ultimately frying my power source and a harddrive.
Holy crap that's terrible. And I thought disconnecting all my placement matches was a huge deal
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On May 23 2010 09:22 Aether wrote:
Yeah, I'm just going to wait until they clear this mess up to play any more. During patch 11 I got a ridiculous amount of crashes, forcing me to do hard shut-downs and ultimately frying my power source and a harddrive.
Your problems are bigger than sc2 ^^
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I think I know what happened, I remember that they said they were making hardware upgrades. I believe they were ripped off by some overseas dealer and are using 1990's refurbished server equipment.
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lol school: 'UDP is much faster than TCP because there's no extra overhead for error-checking above the packet level. For this reason, games that require constant fast transmission of data (such as player coordinates in a fast-paced shooter) will use UDP.'
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On May 23 2010 07:21 teamsolid wrote:
Is anyone else getting S2_MASTER_SERVER_ERROR or some shit like that every time they search a game?
yesiree bob, so annoying I wanted to pwn some noobs today
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On May 23 2010 09:56 Tone_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 09:22 Aether wrote:
Yeah, I'm just going to wait until they clear this mess up to play any more. During patch 11 I got a ridiculous amount of crashes, forcing me to do hard shut-downs and ultimately frying my power source and a harddrive. Your problems are bigger than sc2 ^^
No, they definitely weren't. The repeated hard shut-downs caused power surges with caused my power source to start fluctuating output very badly. I took it in and tested each of the outputs and where they worked perfectly the day before there were massive fluctuations in the output of half of plugs with my +2 completely shutting off. This was definitely the result of power surges as a result of the repeated crashes.
Every single crash was a direct result of SC2.
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Aether, were you overclocking or using modded parts? I honestly can't think of way that a piece of software could cause what you are describing.
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Is the S2MASTER_SERVER_ERROR_INVALID_DATA a B.Net issue or is it me? Sorry for having to ask just wondering.
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On May 23 2010 11:30 Aether wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 09:56 Tone_ wrote:On May 23 2010 09:22 Aether wrote:
Yeah, I'm just going to wait until they clear this mess up to play any more. During patch 11 I got a ridiculous amount of crashes, forcing me to do hard shut-downs and ultimately frying my power source and a harddrive. Your problems are bigger than sc2 ^^ No, they definitely weren't. The repeated hard shut-downs caused power surges with caused my power source to start fluctuating output very badly. I took it in and tested each of the outputs and where they worked perfectly the day before there were massive fluctuations in the output of half of plugs with my +2 completely shutting off. This was definitely the result of power surges as a result of the repeated crashes. Every single crash was a direct result of SC2.
Wait, so you were using beta software and it crashed? Fuck blizzard, those inconsiderate pricks, how dare they allow this to happen!
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Furthest I got was a loading screen buy my opponent never loaded....
then S2MASTER_SERVER_ERROR
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no and no (to the overclocking/modding question, although I AM overclocking now heh.) It wouldn't have been caused _directly_ by the software, I think it probably would've been the result of a voltage spike during one of the crashes. I mean, it could be random coincidence, but that is highly unlikely IMO. Patch 11 was causing tons of people's games and computers to lock up completely, and right after a long string of in-game system failures the previously flawless powersource starts emitting wild fluctuations and shutting itself down.
A crash/outage can cause a spike, which can damage the power source, which can then damage other components in-turn. It may be highly unlikely but it's certainly not impossible and that seems to be what happened. I just seem to have won the bad-luck lottery on this one.
Who knows, there's a chance that a lightning bolt happened to strike somewhere near me and that caused the surge. There's no way to be 100% certain but all of the evidence points pretty strongly in one direction. I should probably get a power bar with a surge protector, really.
edit - it could even just be that the PSU was on its way out and the extra demand from the increased CPU activity pushed it over the edge. It was about 4 years old, although I had also never had any problems with it. Like I said, I don't think it was a direct result of the game, but the crashes and the PSU failure are related somehow.
Some connectors were working normally, the +12 was fluctuating badly, and another was not registering at all.
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On May 23 2010 12:20 sith wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 11:30 Aether wrote:On May 23 2010 09:56 Tone_ wrote:On May 23 2010 09:22 Aether wrote:
Yeah, I'm just going to wait until they clear this mess up to play any more. During patch 11 I got a ridiculous amount of crashes, forcing me to do hard shut-downs and ultimately frying my power source and a harddrive. Your problems are bigger than sc2 ^^ No, they definitely weren't. The repeated hard shut-downs caused power surges with caused my power source to start fluctuating output very badly. I took it in and tested each of the outputs and where they worked perfectly the day before there were massive fluctuations in the output of half of plugs with my +2 completely shutting off. This was definitely the result of power surges as a result of the repeated crashes. Every single crash was a direct result of SC2. Wait, so you were using beta software and it crashed? Fuck blizzard, those inconsiderate pricks, how dare they allow this to happen!
Is there any point to your post or do you just like to make sarcastic, aggressive, idiotic, and utterly pointless comments in a discussion of which you're not a part and of which you have no understanding?
I didn't express any kind of outrage or blame blizzard for anything, someone explained that they thought the problem was unrelated to the patch and I expounded on the situation, nothing more. If you're just going to spew idiocy, don't bother talking at all please, you haven't contributed anything to the discussion.
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Unreliable? Unusable more like.
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hope they give us another week of beta for this
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On May 23 2010 12:45 Aether wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 12:20 sith wrote:On May 23 2010 11:30 Aether wrote:On May 23 2010 09:56 Tone_ wrote:On May 23 2010 09:22 Aether wrote:
Yeah, I'm just going to wait until they clear this mess up to play any more. During patch 11 I got a ridiculous amount of crashes, forcing me to do hard shut-downs and ultimately frying my power source and a harddrive. Your problems are bigger than sc2 ^^ No, they definitely weren't. The repeated hard shut-downs caused power surges with caused my power source to start fluctuating output very badly. I took it in and tested each of the outputs and where they worked perfectly the day before there were massive fluctuations in the output of half of plugs with my +2 completely shutting off. This was definitely the result of power surges as a result of the repeated crashes. Every single crash was a direct result of SC2. Wait, so you were using beta software and it crashed? Fuck blizzard, those inconsiderate pricks, how dare they allow this to happen! Is there any point to your post or do you just like to make sarcastic, aggressive, idiotic, and utterly pointless comments in a discussion of which you're not a part and of which you have no understanding? I didn't express any kind of outrage or blame blizzard for anything, someone explained that they thought the problem was unrelated to the patch and I expounded on the situation, nothing more. If you're just going to spew idiocy, don't bother talking at all please, you haven't contributed anything to the discussion.
Well you were acting like Blizzard and SC2 personally shit all over your hard drive and power supply. I've never heard of a hard shutdown (using the button on the front of your PC) causing "power surges" before in my life, it sounds like your components were going bad anyway.
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On May 23 2010 13:44 sith wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 12:45 Aether wrote:On May 23 2010 12:20 sith wrote:On May 23 2010 11:30 Aether wrote:On May 23 2010 09:56 Tone_ wrote:On May 23 2010 09:22 Aether wrote:
Yeah, I'm just going to wait until they clear this mess up to play any more. During patch 11 I got a ridiculous amount of crashes, forcing me to do hard shut-downs and ultimately frying my power source and a harddrive. Your problems are bigger than sc2 ^^ No, they definitely weren't. The repeated hard shut-downs caused power surges with caused my power source to start fluctuating output very badly. I took it in and tested each of the outputs and where they worked perfectly the day before there were massive fluctuations in the output of half of plugs with my +2 completely shutting off. This was definitely the result of power surges as a result of the repeated crashes. Every single crash was a direct result of SC2. Wait, so you were using beta software and it crashed? Fuck blizzard, those inconsiderate pricks, how dare they allow this to happen! Is there any point to your post or do you just like to make sarcastic, aggressive, idiotic, and utterly pointless comments in a discussion of which you're not a part and of which you have no understanding? I didn't express any kind of outrage or blame blizzard for anything, someone explained that they thought the problem was unrelated to the patch and I expounded on the situation, nothing more. If you're just going to spew idiocy, don't bother talking at all please, you haven't contributed anything to the discussion. Well you were acting like Blizzard and SC2 personally shit all over your hard drive and power supply. I've never heard of a hard shutdown (using the button on the front of your PC) causing "power surges" before in my life, it sounds like your components were going bad anyway.
You're over-exaggerating, and need to calm down.
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Signed on to play a few games just now.
First game went fine for a few minutes, starting lagging, froze, then dropped.
Second game was fine early game, starting getting some pretty bad lag problems midgame, but we still managed to finish it.
Third game just froze and dropped midgame.
It was slightly better than earlier today but the issues are still apparent. very annoying but looks like I'll just put off the beta for the rest of the night. Time to venture back to the bottom of the iccup ladder.
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I just played 2 games. One was a cg, and one was a 1v1 placement game. No lag, but I dropped from both. Fortunately it says I still have 5 placement matches left.
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EPT
