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Most decent/good players I know focus on getting the queen up as fast as possible. Zerg economics are governed by larva production. You usually don't need a good drone pump like in SC1 as much if you were able to start off well.
Some points to note:
1) Scout/find timings your opponent looks to exploit
Instead of churning larva away from drone production, spine crawlers or "static" defense may be a better decision. You can continue drone production while still maintaining some sort of defensive capability. Terrans have the advantage of using hellions or banshees to harass. I've seen players make an additional queen to cope with this type of fast-tech harass (I've seen it work against 1 or 2 void rays, but it may be risky if they bring in the phoenix).
Questions you can ask: What do their buildings point at? Should I be afraid of some reapers, an mmm push, helion harass, banshees, vikings?
These point towards when you should tech, drone pump, and make units.
2) Deciding on your own timing
My earlier zerg games ended up with a ton of minerals (1-2k) when I lost, even though I was using up every bit of larva. I had too many drones, so I needed to move up my own unit-pump mode timing. If you can take initiative in a game (You have this more often first in PvZ, second in TvZ), Your next 2-3 waves of larva pops are going to decide what your tech is at that moment. Then it might be a ping-pong of unit/tech decisions.
ie: You make mass lings, he makes a colossus, you get corrupters, he has stalkers, you then transition to broodlords.
Obviously I'm leaving out quite a bit, but based on your tech, you see you'll need more gas but not as much minerals compared to some builds (ie: Roach/hydra/infestor). This governs how many drones/units and their timings.
TL;DR Make drones when you're not able to make the units you need. Take extra drones and make static defense so you can get the tech you need. Make units to defend stuff if you don't think you have enough.
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On May 11 2010 04:54 Chill wrote:
I think the answer is pretty obvious. Make as few units as possible until you need them. I'm not sure what you want out of this thread...
My immediate reaction. Just scout man. I mean why would you make units if you don't need them.
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On May 11 2010 05:08 Saracen wrote:Gonna post this again because it seems relevant... Show nested quote +On May 02 2010 18:35 Saracen wrote:
Rules of Droning (ZvP/T):
1. You do not talk about droning
2. You DO NOT talk about droning
3. If you kill his fighting units, build drones
4. If you kill his workers, build fighting units
5. When the game begins, start droning
6. If he rushes you, stop droning and defend, then go to 3
7. If he is on one base, you only need a number of drones equal to one base saturation. Then, build fighting units.
8. If he starts expanding, either build all drones or all units.
a) If you build all drones, you are sAviOr. Saturate your second base. Then, build fighting units.
b) If you build all fighting units, you are YellOw. Keep building fighting units. Then kill him.
In my head, Chris Rock is going through this list: "there is no sex in the champaign room..."
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Basically the same as in Brood War. It's pretty instinctual if you've played a lot of Zerg in Brood War at a C- or above level. Not really sure exactly when I switch between production.
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On May 11 2010 05:08 Saracen wrote:
7. If he is on one base, you only need a number of drones equal to one base saturation. Then, build fighting units.
You gotta change this one up if you're playing vs T because of mules. It's more like saturation + some.
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Don't be afraid to build a couple spine crawlers. Those + Queen can stop just about any early stuff they can throw at you. Also remember that Toss and Zerg early units are melee attackers so the less sides of a building that are exposed the harder the time they will have to bring it down.
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On May 11 2010 06:31 OrtegaPeru wrote:
Don't be afraid to build a couple spine crawlers. Those + Queen can stop just about any early stuff they can throw at you. Also remember that Toss and Zerg early units are melee attackers so the less sides of a building that are exposed the harder the time they will have to bring it down.
why build them if you don't need them?
i guess if you're starting and you're having trouble scouting and multi-tasking... but it's still not an ideal way to learn.
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Making spine crawlers you don't need isn't as bad for zerg as other races, you can reposition them later to become useful, such as defending 3rd expos or setting up a contain.
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On May 11 2010 05:08 Saracen wrote:Gonna post this again because it seems relevant... Show nested quote +On May 02 2010 18:35 Saracen wrote:
Rules of Droning (ZvP/T):
1. You do not talk about droning
2. You DO NOT talk about droning
3. If you kill his fighting units, build drones
4. If you kill his workers, build fighting units
5. When the game begins, start droning
6. If he rushes you, stop droning and defend, then go to 3
7. If he is on one base, you only need a number of drones equal to one base saturation. Then, build fighting units.
8. If he starts expanding, either build all drones or all units.
a) If you build all drones, you are sAviOr. Saturate your second base. Then, build fighting units.
b) If you build all fighting units, you are YellOw. Keep building fighting units. Then kill him.
How to play Zerg in 8 simple rules. Nice.
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you made a big error saying that other races don't have to choose whether to make workers or units. if (in a perfect world) everyone is keeping their money at 0, theres going to be a choice where that money goes regardless of race.
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On May 11 2010 07:07 Destro wrote:
you made a big error saying that other races don't have to choose whether to make workers or units. if (in a perfect world) everyone is keeping their money at 0, theres going to be a choice where that money goes regardless of race. If nexus is no longer producing, next 50 minerals goes towards a probe. It's pretty simple.
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for the entire game? i find this hard to believe protoss players do not stop making probes.
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On May 11 2010 07:07 Destro wrote:
you made a big error saying that other races don't have to choose whether to make workers or units. if (in a perfect world) everyone is keeping their money at 0, theres going to be a choice where that money goes regardless of race.
It is different for Zerg. Protoss and Terran can build multiple units plus workers at the same time. Zerg have to decide if they are dedicating their larvae to workers or units. It's a very different dynamic.
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This is actually the first thing I plan on working on when I've finished with this semester and can play consistently. I'm going to set some arbitrary scout timings, and after each game write down what I saw when I scouted, and what came after. Once I start finding consistent patterns and can accurately predict what my opponent is doing, and know the timings, I can start figuring out when to drone, when to get units, and when to tech.
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On May 11 2010 04:54 Chill wrote:
I think the answer is pretty obvious. Make as few units as possible until you need them. I'm not sure what you want out of this thread...
Uh... the answer might be simple but achieving it is a topic worth talking about. I'm not sure what you're contributing to this thread...
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I figure if I losing some drones to harassment is alright if I build 15 more then my opponent.
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Just build drones AND spine crawlers (there's never enought of them and they are your best friends). When you feel confortable build units, attack, GG.
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On May 11 2010 07:23 Destro wrote:
for the entire game? i find this hard to believe protoss players do not stop making probes.
For T or P player the decision to make workers is easy. Do not stop until you have 3 expansions worth of fully saturated mineral, that is around 60-80 workers.
P can constantly produce probes and have three gates constantly pumping out units while teching.
Z mechanics in SC forces players to decide if they want drone or units and the player must factor in many different scenarios to decide. Judging from previous posters the decision seems rather complex for Z players.
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There is a major difference between NA and KR in terms of this, IMO.
Fact is, you can either drone or push at any given juncture. Now, in SC2, I think it is almost always safer to drone unless you're under attack. Many US players choose to press the issue instead, and they end up losing. It's just easier to completely overwhelm your opponent with a hive tech army later on, and all you have to do is keep your opponent from expanding too much or harassing/killing you. Just remember that when you're producing fighters, you're cutting off your worker production--your opponent isn't.
Korean Zerg is SO much more powerful because they buy time with sunkens and speedlings until lair tech, then buy more time with speedlings and hydralisks until hive tech, and they are able to put together a hydralisk/brood lord/infestor combo off of two base play (because they droned so hard), against which Terran and Protoss don't really have a good answer right now, IMO.
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EPT
