Alright awesome thanks, this is very useful since I only have like 32 1v1s player and very few on Delta Quadrant (although a disproportionately large number on X'NC heh). Looks like the closespawns on DQ are extremely close, which is what it felt like in the few games I played. I play Zerg so basically if the rush distance is at least crossspawn LT length I feel safe to 14pool15hatch, if not then I 1base. X'NC seems to be just a little under crossspawn LT so it's probably "safe" timing wise, but the openness of the nat makes it really tricky to defend so I'm still undecided on what to do... actually I just looked at the map and it has the Kulas-like double choke for some reason, f that. Still good to know it's a fairly long walk.

And for 2v2, yeah choke to choke would be pretty useful, although for rushing strats I think main-to-main would give a more accurate idea of the actual travel time (some chokes are fairly far away from the main). And then allied main to allied main would be useful for knowing the response time (not all maps are shared bases). Thanks a lot for the 1v1 data!

dimfish

United States663 Posts

August 05 2010 23:25 GMT

#42

Delta Quadrant is freaky close quarters any way you look at the chart. I haven't had many games on it compared to time with the beta maps, but as a fellow Zerg player I suspect spine crawlers can hold down the natural if you use them for defense.

And for X'NC, I (in gold league) just expo early and put the pressure on because the nat and whatever you pick for a third base are just out there, hanging in the wind. I favor lings+roach and try to keep Terran or Protoss from expanding.

Even though the naturals on Xel'Naga Caverns are open and forked like Kulas, look at the nat2nat for Kulas--those bases are a skip away from each other. I really don't seem to get Kulas in 1v1, I have nothing voted down either, but maybe other people vote it down.

Camila_br

Brazil529 Posts

August 05 2010 23:28 GMT

#43

How about adding flying distance and reaper distance?

dimfish

United States663 Posts

August 06 2010 00:25 GMT

#44

Those numbers are all available from the analyzer, true, but for this hand-made rush distance chart I was trying to keep it simple and pretty.

I'll do a full ladder analysis when I put out the next major version of the analyzer with fun new features, and it'll have all the fly distance/cliff-walker distance stats, too.

Antares777

United States1971 Posts

September 09 2010 03:14 GMT

#45

I think I need to print this out, that is how helpful it is!

dimfish

United States663 Posts

October 14 2010 19:50 GMT

#46

Updated OP with the 2010-10-14 ladder, including Shakuras Plateau and Jungle Basin.

imyzhang

Canada809 Posts

October 14 2010 19:59 GMT

#47

wow, never realized shakuras had such a long distance between bases. great info, keep it up! =]

dimfish

United States663 Posts

October 14 2010 20:55 GMT

#48

On October 15 2010 04:59 imyzhang wrote:
wow, never realized shakuras had such a long distance between bases. great info, keep it up! =]

Good point, I discussed SP but didn't comment on rush distance compared to the other maps! I put a blurb in about that, thanks

Vei

United States2845 Posts

October 14 2010 21:10 GMT

#49

Sweet, I love your graphs. I'm a little unclear on what the top-to-bottom rush distances are on Shakuras though? Like Topleft to Bottomleft and Topright to bottomright.

Logo

United States7542 Posts

October 14 2010 21:12 GMT

#50

Awesome update and analysis of Shakuras. This is probably one of my most 'read' posts on TL, I refer back to it all the time to compare rush distances and what not.

dimfish

United States663 Posts

October 14 2010 21:52 GMT

#51

On October 15 2010 06:10 Vei wrote:
Sweet, I love your graphs. I'm a little unclear on what the top-to-bottom rush distances are on Shakuras though? Like Topleft to Bottomleft and Topright to bottomright.

There are no top-left to bottom-left, etc. rush distances because Blizzard explicitly disabled those spawn possibilities. Which is why there weren't long, skinny 4 player maps in BW, because the engine didn't allow that.

EDIT: oh, and thanks Logo! I plan to update after any map pool changes, but I give it some time to settle. Like, new Desert Oasis didn't last long.

Soulxfire

Australia52 Posts

October 14 2010 23:50 GMT

#52

ahh... i will always like scrap station...

Pezeteros

Greece7 Posts

October 15 2010 00:20 GMT

#53

Very nice thread.

Didn't know you couldn't spawn both left or both right on SP.

Kidna wish they could make the same restriction for close positions for LT and metalopolis too.

GagnarTheUnruly

United States655 Posts

October 15 2010 00:37 GMT

#54

If you've got time, I'd like to see a featured iCCup map or two on the scale as well. I'm curious how different they are.

Randomaccount#77123

United States5003 Posts

October 15 2010 01:02 GMT

#55

--- Nuked ---

Subversion

South Africa3627 Posts

October 15 2010 01:21 GMT

#56

thanks to whoever bumped this, hadn't seen it yet!

this is awesome, tnx

MinoMino

Norway1103 Posts

October 15 2010 01:38 GMT

#57

Oh nice, I must've missed this the first time around. Well done. Also, I haven't played SC2 recently and had no idea close spawns on Shakuras were disabled, so thanks for the heads up.

Gotta love Scrap Station.

dimfish

United States663 Posts

October 15 2010 04:18 GMT

#58

On October 15 2010 09:37 GagnarTheUnruly wrote:
If you've got time, I'd like to see a featured iCCup map or two on the scale as well. I'm curious how different they are.

That could be cool. Maybe one of the iCCup map makers could provide the analyzer data for a couple of representative maps from their October pool? You gotta have the unlocked map file to run the analyzer on it. If they hit me up I'll make a bonus iCCup graph.

Ketara

United States15065 Posts

October 15 2010 04:35 GMT

#59

Pretty funny to look at this and think about how much people complain about Steppes rush distance being way too small and how Metalopolis is the best map in the pool, when Metalopolis close spawns have the shortest rush distance.

Edit: Could you put the Shakuras close-close spawns up there for reference? The ones that aren't allowed.

I have heard they are abysmally short and that is the reason they were removed.

dimfish

United States663 Posts

October 15 2010 06:26 GMT

#60

On October 15 2010 13:35 Ketara wrote:
Pretty funny to look at this and think about how much people complain about Steppes rush distance being way too small and how Metalopolis is the best map in the pool, when Metalopolis close spawns have the shortest rush distance.

Edit: Could you put the Shakuras close-close spawns up there for reference? The ones that aren't allowed.

I have heard they are abysmally short and that is the reason they were removed.

At least on Metalopolis its a 1/3 chance of the close spawns, so its harder for someone to commit to something cheesy.

The shortest spawns main2main on Metalopolis are 111 map cells apart, and the disabled spawns on Shakuras Plateau are only 102 map cells apart, which is short, sure, but real problem is that the naturals are like two bases in love, making out in the sides of the map they're so close.