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Rush Distance Comparisons - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Vei
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2845 Posts
August 05 2010 22:53 GMT
#41
Alright awesome thanks, this is very useful since I only have like 32 1v1s player and very few on Delta Quadrant (although a disproportionately large number on X'NC heh). Looks like the closespawns on DQ are extremely close, which is what it felt like in the few games I played. I play Zerg so basically if the rush distance is at least crossspawn LT length I feel safe to 14pool15hatch, if not then I 1base. X'NC seems to be just a little under crossspawn LT so it's probably "safe" timing wise, but the openness of the nat makes it really tricky to defend so I'm still undecided on what to do... actually I just looked at the map and it has the Kulas-like double choke for some reason, f that. Still good to know it's a fairly long walk.

And for 2v2, yeah choke to choke would be pretty useful, although for rushing strats I think main-to-main would give a more accurate idea of the actual travel time (some chokes are fairly far away from the main). And then allied main to allied main would be useful for knowing the response time (not all maps are shared bases). Thanks a lot for the 1v1 data!
www.justin.tv/veisc2 ~ 720p + commentary
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
August 05 2010 23:25 GMT
#42
Delta Quadrant is freaky close quarters any way you look at the chart. I haven't had many games on it compared to time with the beta maps, but as a fellow Zerg player I suspect spine crawlers can hold down the natural if you use them for defense.

And for X'NC, I (in gold league) just expo early and put the pressure on because the nat and whatever you pick for a third base are just out there, hanging in the wind. I favor lings+roach and try to keep Terran or Protoss from expanding.

Even though the naturals on Xel'Naga Caverns are open and forked like Kulas, look at the nat2nat for Kulas--those bases are a skip away from each other. I really don't seem to get Kulas in 1v1, I have nothing voted down either, but maybe other people vote it down.
Camila_br
Profile Joined April 2004
Brazil529 Posts
August 05 2010 23:28 GMT
#43
How about adding flying distance and reaper distance?
"Do you really want chat rooms?"
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
August 06 2010 00:25 GMT
#44
Those numbers are all available from the analyzer, true, but for this hand-made rush distance chart I was trying to keep it simple and pretty.

I'll do a full ladder analysis when I put out the next major version of the analyzer with fun new features, and it'll have all the fly distance/cliff-walker distance stats, too.
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
September 09 2010 03:14 GMT
#45
I think I need to print this out, that is how helpful it is!
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
October 14 2010 19:50 GMT
#46
Updated OP with the 2010-10-14 ladder, including Shakuras Plateau and Jungle Basin.
imyzhang
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada809 Posts
October 14 2010 19:59 GMT
#47
wow, never realized shakuras had such a long distance between bases. great info, keep it up! =]
bleh
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
October 14 2010 20:55 GMT
#48
On October 15 2010 04:59 imyzhang wrote:
wow, never realized shakuras had such a long distance between bases. great info, keep it up! =]


Good point, I discussed SP but didn't comment on rush distance compared to the other maps! I put a blurb in about that, thanks
Vei
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2845 Posts
October 14 2010 21:10 GMT
#49
Sweet, I love your graphs. I'm a little unclear on what the top-to-bottom rush distances are on Shakuras though? Like Topleft to Bottomleft and Topright to bottomright.
www.justin.tv/veisc2 ~ 720p + commentary
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
October 14 2010 21:12 GMT
#50
Awesome update and analysis of Shakuras. This is probably one of my most 'read' posts on TL, I refer back to it all the time to compare rush distances and what not.
Logo
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-14 21:55:28
October 14 2010 21:52 GMT
#51
On October 15 2010 06:10 Vei wrote:
Sweet, I love your graphs. I'm a little unclear on what the top-to-bottom rush distances are on Shakuras though? Like Topleft to Bottomleft and Topright to bottomright.


There are no top-left to bottom-left, etc. rush distances because Blizzard explicitly disabled those spawn possibilities. Which is why there weren't long, skinny 4 player maps in BW, because the engine didn't allow that.

EDIT: oh, and thanks Logo! I plan to update after any map pool changes, but I give it some time to settle. Like, new Desert Oasis didn't last long.
Soulxfire
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia52 Posts
October 14 2010 23:50 GMT
#52
ahh... i will always like scrap station...
Die Terran Die! because Protoss and Zerg are cooler than you.
Pezeteros
Profile Joined July 2010
Greece7 Posts
October 15 2010 00:20 GMT
#53
Very nice thread.

Didn't know you couldn't spawn both left or both right on SP.

Kidna wish they could make the same restriction for close positions for LT and metalopolis too.
GagnarTheUnruly
Profile Joined July 2010
United States655 Posts
October 15 2010 00:37 GMT
#54
If you've got time, I'd like to see a featured iCCup map or two on the scale as well. I'm curious how different they are.
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
October 15 2010 01:02 GMT
#55
--- Nuked ---
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
October 15 2010 01:21 GMT
#56
thanks to whoever bumped this, hadn't seen it yet!

this is awesome, tnx
MinoMino
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway1103 Posts
October 15 2010 01:38 GMT
#57
Oh nice, I must've missed this the first time around. Well done. Also, I haven't played SC2 recently and had no idea close spawns on Shakuras were disabled, so thanks for the heads up.

Gotta love Scrap Station.
Blah.
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
October 15 2010 04:18 GMT
#58
On October 15 2010 09:37 GagnarTheUnruly wrote:
If you've got time, I'd like to see a featured iCCup map or two on the scale as well. I'm curious how different they are.


That could be cool. Maybe one of the iCCup map makers could provide the analyzer data for a couple of representative maps from their October pool? You gotta have the unlocked map file to run the analyzer on it. If they hit me up I'll make a bonus iCCup graph.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 04:38:05
October 15 2010 04:35 GMT
#59
Pretty funny to look at this and think about how much people complain about Steppes rush distance being way too small and how Metalopolis is the best map in the pool, when Metalopolis close spawns have the shortest rush distance.

Edit: Could you put the Shakuras close-close spawns up there for reference? The ones that aren't allowed.

I have heard they are abysmally short and that is the reason they were removed.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
October 15 2010 06:26 GMT
#60
On October 15 2010 13:35 Ketara wrote:
Pretty funny to look at this and think about how much people complain about Steppes rush distance being way too small and how Metalopolis is the best map in the pool, when Metalopolis close spawns have the shortest rush distance.

Edit: Could you put the Shakuras close-close spawns up there for reference? The ones that aren't allowed.

I have heard they are abysmally short and that is the reason they were removed.


At least on Metalopolis its a 1/3 chance of the close spawns, so its harder for someone to commit to something cheesy.

The shortest spawns main2main on Metalopolis are 111 map cells apart, and the disabled spawns on Shakuras Plateau are only 102 map cells apart, which is short, sure, but real problem is that the naturals are like two bases in love, making out in the sides of the map they're so close.
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