EPTThe Roach is whats wrong with SC2. - Page 20
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peckham33
United States267 Posts
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Ideas
United States8161 Posts
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newbcake
United States57 Posts
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peckham33
United States267 Posts
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Mnijykmirl
United States299 Posts
They build roaches? You build marauder. That's as complicated as it gets. And it turns out to be annoying and boring and slow. | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
Lets examine each matchup again and why there are overwhelming reasons to be massing 3 certain units: PvT: The reason people are massing marauders is pretty simple. Mech is really really really difficult, because stalkers with blink and immortals just overpower tanks so quickly. I mech every game TvP, but it's not easy, and I feel like vs superior players I don't stand a chance. Therefore, we're left with 2 other options, bio and air. With the slow effect and easy massability, marauders are just superior to marines in almost every way, and air is a risky strategy that gives mixed results. Therefore, people make maras. PvZ: Roaches are completely ridiculous in this matchup. Without immortals it's very very difficult to deal with mass roach, although stalkers do ok with micro. Right now people are basically forced into immortals because there's just no way to deal with roaches so cost effectively. Likewise, zerg is rather forced into roaches because zealots are so much stronger vs lings than they used to be. ZvT: This is by far the worst offender. The reasoning is simple, marauders are so ridiculously good vs roaches that terran can't fight roach without them. Also, nothing else counters roaches. Siege tanks do ok, but they're only good in siege mode which means you're very limited in your mobility if you rely on them. Stimmed marines with medivacs actually do quite well, but banelings and fungal growth really prohibit the use of pure marine, and also it's very hard to survive earlygame if you have nothing but marines. So pretty much if zerg makes roach, terran has to make maras. If terran doesn't make maras, zerg has to make roach with the exception of pure marine medivac, in which case other units are needed, but you still probably want to be getting roach too. Nerfing all 3 units is perfectly viable, but you have to nerf all 3. Right now marauders need to be nerfed to bring variety to TvP. However, if you nerf maras you need a way to deal with gateway units better. Mech does fine, but not vs immortals. Therefore you have to nerf immortals to make that matchup balanced. However, if you nerf immortals, you really need to nerf roaches because otherwise zerg can roach spam ZvP even more than they already do and completely dominate. Nerfing roaches makes mech more viable TvZ, and brings more flavor to that matchup. It actually works out quite well as you can see =D | ||
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Nal_rAwr
United States2611 Posts
On April 06 2010 10:55 Ideas wrote: blizzard reads TL a bunch, this thread has definitely been seen by now. well despite the number of pages, its only been a day since the thread was created | ||
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ExoCorsair
United States48 Posts
On April 06 2010 07:54 Antpile wrote: The reaver was WAY better designed though. It was slow so it required another unit to move it around, it was very vulnerable to attack, and there were nifty tricks that you could do to reduce scarab damage like baiting a shot a single unit and then dashing in to kill it before it could fire again or leading a scarab off away from the rest of your army. On the flip side, you got many of those "oooh, aaah" moments from the crowd because one good reaver hit did enough damage that it could lead to devastating results. The colossus is a very poor replacement from the interesting-to-watch standpoint. It requires no micro to use, is very mobile, and there's really no micro that you can use against it other than focus firing it or maybe trying to spread your units out a bit. It also doesn't have that "oomph" that the reaver had. Instead, it just has a very high and steady dps to many units at once. Boooorrring. So true. I think that the Colossus could be fixed by just only allowing it to attack ground, as opposed to units, and have a longer attack animation (and also the possibility to choose the manner in which the lances move?). Though, it still wouldn't be as neat to watch as Reaver micro, but better than the current Colossus. | ||
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
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SirNeb
United States243 Posts
Anyways, the reason why I bring up the story is that if enough influential players agree with the issue at hand, then Blizzard will possibly listen. But I would be impressed if they are willing to remove a unit and add another, that would really show their commitment to really make this really a kickass game. Honestly, even w/ war3, I thought it just had so much potential to take over BW at the time, but they were not willing to take more time on it to make it better. SC2 is definitely quite impressive so far, way more than war3 ever was for me. So I would love to see this game ship and be just AWESOME. | ||
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Deviation
United States134 Posts
On April 06 2010 11:23 Reborn8u wrote: What about just nerfing the special qualities of these units, like making the maurader slow down attack an upgrade, the immortal hard shield, and the roach healing? That would make them even more boring. I say buff Roach healing and nerf its standard characteristics. Nerf Marauder and Immortal standard statistics. | ||
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NiGhT_mArE
United States35 Posts
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
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Chronopolis
Canada1484 Posts
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USn
United States376 Posts
On April 06 2010 11:27 SirNeb wrote: I remember Tillerman made a pretty legendary post in the war3 beta forum back in the days. Bob Pardo who was the war3 designer replied to it. Tillerman influenced a few changes to the final game, such as free 1st hero and I think lumbers being a larger role in resources. But unfortunately, some of the fundamental stuff, Pardo was not willing to change because Blizzard was too deep into the hole, such as making changes to "creeps killing". I mean I'm not hating on War3, I think it does gear toward certain audiences and it's a great game for all I know. I was just a bit disappointed that while Blizzard go with the logan of "Ship when it's done" but they did not address all the fundamental problems and shipped the game anyways. Understandable but still disappointing. Anyways, the reason why I bring up the story is that if enough influential players agree with the issue at hand, then Blizzard will possibly listen. But I would be impressed if they are willing to remove a unit and add another, that would really show their commitment to really make this really a kickass game. Honestly, even w/ war3, I thought it just had so much potential to take over BW at the time, but they were not willing to take more time on it to make it better. SC2 is definitely quite impressive so far, way more than war3 ever was for me. So I would love to see this game ship and be just AWESOME. I'm pretty curious as to what was in this... can't find it on the internet with my searching thus far. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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Kleander
United States334 Posts
require an armory to build marauder nerf zealots and make hard shell an upgrade at robo facility and then start the REAL balancing of the game | ||
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eMbrace
United States1300 Posts
On April 05 2010 10:52 JadeFist wrote: Why are these threads always written by tier 1 icon users... you actually judge people by their post count? 0_o | ||
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peckham33
United States267 Posts
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