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SC2 Tool - Hits to Kill Chart - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
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MajicPanda
Profile Joined March 2010
70 Posts
April 01 2010 21:18 GMT
#41
On April 02 2010 05:58 Badjas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2010 05:47 MajicPanda wrote:
On April 02 2010 04:23 Badjas wrote:
Bug report: currently a drone takes 233.33 hits to kill a mothership


And this is an issue why? lol

5dmg - 2armor = 3dmg per hit
350hp + 350shields = 700
700 / 3 = 233.33

I don't think drones can attack air, and a mothership most definitely hovers in the air.


No site has Mothership classified as a Air for a modifier.. not sc2armory, not liquipedia. Someone would need to confirm the classification of this unit as ground or air.
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MajicPanda
Profile Joined March 2010
70 Posts
April 01 2010 21:20 GMT
#42
On April 02 2010 05:52 L wrote:
Ultralisks are taking 35 shots to kill each other. I think Kaiserblades are outprioritizing headbutt for the calculation.


Headbutt targets buildings only, no? I know it's not listed on my site, but I'm pretty sure that's the mechanic.

Ok, so originally I wanted this to be a "quick" guide for people who already knew strategy and whatnot, but a lot of people seem to be asking a lot of questions regarding the reason for things.. so I"ll try to output more information so the damage calculations and whatnot are more understandable. Maybe tomorrow.
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MajicPanda
Profile Joined March 2010
70 Posts
April 01 2010 21:36 GMT
#43
By popular request....... chart now shows both units attacking each other stats.
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MajicPanda
Profile Joined March 2010
70 Posts
April 02 2010 07:01 GMT
#44
A lot more unit data added to page so it's easier to see what's going on.
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MajicPanda
Profile Joined March 2010
70 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-02 08:13:52
April 02 2010 07:48 GMT
#45
On April 02 2010 04:23 Badjas wrote:
Bug report: currently a drone takes 233.33 hits to kill a mothership

Nice job on the presentation, it looks pretty. A few comments, the interface is geared to giving information on two units, and then there's the single bit of information in the number of shots it takes to kill the other unit. This information is most useful in comparison to other unit combinations. By itself it doesn't say that much. Ah wait I read your comment and now I tried out that extra button you made that shows more damage calculations. Presentation in a sorted list please? :D

Besides the number of shots it takes to kill the unit, it would be informative if you would indicate the number of shots it takes the other way around, and then add a number of efficiency:

For the numbers, I will assume that regeneration is already compensated for.

It takes a zergling 18 hits to kill a hydra.
It takes a hydra 2,92 hits to kill a zergling. But it makes more sense to say that three shots kill a zergling, as that last 0,08 bit of a shot goes completely lost.
A zergling costs 25 minerals, 0 gas
A hydra costs 100 minerals, 50 gas
Attacking a hydra with a zergling, ignoring range versus melee advantage, and partial damage/healing and the like, can be given an efficiency rating. Either you give minerals and gas a separate rating, or you could value gas as double the worth of minerals or any other weight. If taken separate, the efficiency in minerals would be:
0,648888889 = (100*3)/(25*18)
mineral efficiency of zergling attacking hydra = (hydra mineral * hydra hits to kill a zergling) / (zergling mineral * zergling hits to kill a hydra)
gas efficiency would yield a divide by zero. If I were to weigh gas twice the value as minerals, I would get an efficiency of zergling attack a hydra:
1,33333 = ((100+2*50)*3)/((25+2*0)*18)
when gas is equal worth to minerals:
1=((100+50)*3)/((25+0)*18)
That is a perfect balance, I guess by design.

If such a score could be incorporated, that'd be neat.

Edit: oopsie, I made a mistake. You'll have to take attack cooldown into account in the efficiency rating. With the zergling/hydra example you'll see then, I predict, that the zergling is more efficient than the hydra, but if you factor in melee versus ranged it should balance out somewhat again as the hydra can get some hits in while the zergling is moving to the hydra (also calculable).


I was thinking about incorporating something like this.. the only thing with the logic in this is attack delay changes depending on game speed, so I'm not sure what to do there.

I'd think you also need to factor in supply cost in there somewhere.. not sure the weight, but it could use some work for sure.

If we used the default attack speed of the game and used the time it took for one unit to kill the other compared to its resource cost.. I guess that might give some sort of useful data. Suggestions welcome
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TopHat
Profile Joined February 2010
United States12 Posts
April 02 2010 08:36 GMT
#46
On April 02 2010 06:18 MajicPanda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2010 05:58 Badjas wrote:
On April 02 2010 05:47 MajicPanda wrote:
On April 02 2010 04:23 Badjas wrote:
Bug report: currently a drone takes 233.33 hits to kill a mothership


And this is an issue why? lol

5dmg - 2armor = 3dmg per hit
350hp + 350shields = 700
700 / 3 = 233.33

I don't think drones can attack air, and a mothership most definitely hovers in the air.


No site has Mothership classified as a Air for a modifier.. not sc2armory, not liquipedia. Someone would need to confirm the classification of this unit as ground or air.


Fairly sure the Mothership is a full air unit, I played a game recently where I mass roached against a toss. He squeezed out a Mothership while I destroyed his base, roaches could not hit it.

All ground attacking units currently calculate number of hits to drop a Mothership, which shouldn't be possible.
Drayne
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada239 Posts
April 02 2010 08:51 GMT
#47
Very nice little chart you made there! thanks for the hard work
MajicPanda
Profile Joined March 2010
70 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-02 08:54:37
April 02 2010 08:52 GMT
#48
Makes sense to me.. I'll add - Air to its mods

- Done.
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MajicPanda
Profile Joined March 2010
70 Posts
April 02 2010 20:01 GMT
#49
I've made a lot of code changes to only show data that is actually possible. Meaning.. I removed the calculations for +4 to +6 for all units except protoss since that data is useless. It's only for shields + armor upgrades.

Please report any bugs with it as soon as you see them so I can make sure the data is accurate.
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StayFrosty
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada743 Posts
April 02 2010 21:18 GMT
#50
a bit buggy but thanks for the awesome app
MajicPanda
Profile Joined March 2010
70 Posts
April 02 2010 23:36 GMT
#51
On April 03 2010 06:18 StayFrosty wrote:
a bit buggy but thanks for the awesome app


how so?
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AllFear
Profile Joined March 2010
44 Posts
April 02 2010 23:42 GMT
#52
looks nice but might want to make it prettier/more user friendly/easily viewable without scrolling
Twinweapon: I saw creep and zerglings outside my wall-in and was like O DAM PROBLEM WTH IS THIS.
MajicPanda
Profile Joined March 2010
70 Posts
April 04 2010 20:19 GMT
#53
bump for more feedback.
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MajicPanda
Profile Joined March 2010
70 Posts
April 05 2010 21:39 GMT
#54
On April 03 2010 08:42 AllFear wrote:
looks nice but might want to make it prettier/more user friendly/easily viewable without scrolling


Changed entire layout of page and working on some sort of killing efficiency rating. The math is nowhere near complete, but I'm experimenting.
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ComradeDover
Profile Joined November 2009
Bulgaria758 Posts
April 05 2010 22:59 GMT
#55
On April 02 2010 05:47 MajicPanda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2010 04:23 Badjas wrote:
Bug report: currently a drone takes 233.33 hits to kill a mothership


And this is an issue why? lol

5dmg - 2armor = 3dmg per hit
350hp + 350shields = 700
700 / 3 = 233.33


What he's getting at is he wants to be explicitly told that workers can't attack motherships.
Bring back 2v2s!
Savio
Profile Joined April 2008
United States1850 Posts
April 06 2010 01:18 GMT
#56
Holy crap! Sweet sweet website. Major props. Bookmarked.

Hope you keep it up to date as I plan to use it through vanillla release and all expansions as a quick, intuitive guide to answer questions I have.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. – Winston Churchill
crisPtoss
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1 Post
April 06 2010 01:40 GMT
#57
great tool thanks! I think your viking damage is calculating incorrectly by not including the x2 on air-to-air attack. Look at your results in pheonix vs viking as an example...it shows viking requiring twice the # of attacks as needed to kill
MajicPanda
Profile Joined March 2010
70 Posts
April 06 2010 03:00 GMT
#58
On April 06 2010 10:40 crisPtoss wrote:
great tool thanks! I think your viking damage is calculating incorrectly by not including the x2 on air-to-air attack. Look at your results in pheonix vs viking as an example...it shows viking requiring twice the # of attacks as needed to kill


Viking is rated at 2.0 second delay attack speed. Would have to validate this information, but that's the current data on the air to air. It is measured in seconds. It is calculating the 2x.. just really slow attack speed compared to the Phoenix.
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MajicPanda
Profile Joined March 2010
70 Posts
April 06 2010 21:44 GMT
#59
Looking for suggestions regarding the combat statistics page. What would you like to see added? This page is for unit vs unit stats and the outcome of a battle between the two regarding time to kill and damage delt.
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MajicPanda
Profile Joined March 2010
70 Posts
April 07 2010 20:40 GMT
#60
Updated for new patch.
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