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Is it just me or is this ability pretty much non-existent? I mean the only Terran building that has it is the bunker. I can understand not wanting to give the ability to every building, but at least give it to the more common ones - such as the supply depot, missile turret, sensor tower, and refinery (basically no unit-producing or research-providing buildings).
I think I've had a total of 1 match out of my 500+ so far where I actually used the salvage ability. And that was only because the match turned into a Mexican stand off where I had 2 ravens (no seeker missile researched), my opponent had 1 carrier, and were left to kill what was left of each other's buildings one-by-one. Lo and behold I had a bunker left and for some reason it had a SCV inside it. I salvaged it and went from 350ish minerals to 400. Just enough to make a Command Center and rebuild.
I really don't see why they shouldn't allow salvaging for the previously mentioned common buildings.
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I think its nice the way it is
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I wouldn't mind depots being added to salvage list
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On March 20 2010 01:38 Irrelevant wrote:
I wouldn't mind depots being added to salvage list
I would mind that very much. Think about very late game situation where noone has any income, terran salvages half the (useless) depots and he has enough money to build one more army, or at least few more SCVs.
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Well, if the common buildings were to be added then the 100% return would have to be reduced to say 75%.
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I wish you could salvage turrets at least. It would make sense and I think it would be balanced.
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On March 20 2010 01:32 Spartan wrote:
Is it just me or is this ability pretty much non-existent? I mean the only Terran building that has it is the bunker. I can understand not wanting to give the ability to every building, but at least give it to the more common ones - such as the supply depot, missile turret, sensor tower, and refinery (basically no unit-producing or research-providing buildings).
I think I've had a total of 1 match out of my 500+ so far where I actually used the salvage ability. And that was only because the match turned into a Mexican stand off where I had 2 ravens (no seeker missile researched), my opponent had 1 carrier, and were left to kill what was left of each other's buildings one-by-one. Lo and behold I had a bunker left and for some reason it had a SCV inside it. I salvaged it and went from 350ish minerals to 400. Just enough to make a Command Center and rebuild.
I really don't see why they shouldn't allow salvaging for the previously mentioned common buildings.
I think you just explained why giving salvage to more buildings is bad. It allows the terran to get back in the game, but zerg and protoss cant just get money for free so they can rebuild.
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I always FE with a bunker or sometimes even 2 and then destroy it when my eco kicks in and i have enough units.
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i think they should add salvage to turrets and sensor towers, thats a v nice idea u have OP 
one thing i find lol is when my oppo attacks my bunker and i exit it on 20% then they stop attack it so i sell it the second i move out and get 100% refund, imba? maybe lol
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I have used salvage a few times with the bunker. Use a standard 2x depo + rax to wall off. Then I might float my rax back a bit to build a proper add-on and fill in the gap for a short period of time with the bunker. Obviously the bunker has the option to get scrapped later.
I personally have just disliked the use of bunkers. Bunkers (and most static def in SC2) appears to be fairly less impressive than they did in SC1. I am not nearly as hesitant to throw my forces to bust down someones front door as i was before.
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United States7166 Posts
afaik salvaging is popular among the korean terrans
and how is it that you almost never using it in all your games is some kind of evidence supporting that Salvaging is "non-existant"? that's pretty poor logic
100% return on a defensive structure, how can you not see the uses for this?
oh and you're the one who just made that thread about infestors being overpowered vs terran. once again you're being narrow minded. the unit or 1 spell isnt what's overpowered, the issues surrounding balance in tvz are not because of fungal growth.
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What are you talking about? Salvage is awesome, and has tremendous potential. It allows you to FE, do some hardcore defensive turtling with multiple bunkers, then salvage for a 100% refund as soon as you're on your feet again with army size. There are so many great BO options opened up by this. Terrans just haven't gotten used to it yet.
I also really like the idea of salvaging missile turrets and sensor towers. That further opens up possibilities for temporary turtling assistance that gets refunded later in the game, and also opens up more possibilities for hard pushing with refunds if the push doesn't go completely as hoped.
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Salvaging feels more protossy. I mean, comon... even the pieces of their buildings warp out when they are destroyed. Terran have never really been particularly worried about the environment and their solution to getting more resources is to drill for them, not to recycle unused buildings.
That said, it needs to be for a certain pool of buildings and not a 100% return (if it still is). Maybe 50%.
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On March 20 2010 01:57 MorroW wrote:i think they should add salvage to turrets and sensor towers, thats a v nice idea u have OP one thing i find lol is when my oppo attacks my bunker and i exit it on 20% then they stop attack it so i sell it the second i move out and get 100% refund, imba? maybe lol
i think you only get a proportional refund, so not full 100 minerals for a red healthed bunker
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On March 20 2010 02:30 freelander wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2010 01:57 MorroW wrote:i think they should add salvage to turrets and sensor towers, thats a v nice idea u have OP one thing i find lol is when my oppo attacks my bunker and i exit it on 20% then they stop attack it so i sell it the second i move out and get 100% refund, imba? maybe lol i think you only get a proportional refund, so not full 100 minerals for a red healthed bunker
Nicer solution, if thats seens as a problem, would be to just make the reclaim time longer.
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I think salvage could be even more powerful with the bunker capacity upgrade and slow pushes.
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On March 20 2010 02:27 Knee_of_Justice wrote:
Salvaging feels more protossy. I mean, comon... even the pieces of their buildings warp out when they are destroyed. Terran have never really been particularly worried about the environment and their solution to getting more resources is to drill for them, not to recycle unused buildings.
That said, it needs to be for a certain pool of buildings and not a 100% return (if it still is). Maybe 50%.
Funny, I always felt it was distinctly Terran. Specifically because when they want to relocate, they just lift off everything and fly it somewhere else. Now Bunkers can be moved too!
I think Salvage should also be on Missile Turrets.
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On March 20 2010 02:30 freelander wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2010 01:57 MorroW wrote:i think they should add salvage to turrets and sensor towers, thats a v nice idea u have OP one thing i find lol is when my oppo attacks my bunker and i exit it on 20% then they stop attack it so i sell it the second i move out and get 100% refund, imba? maybe lol i think you only get a proportional refund, so not full 100 minerals for a red healthed bunker
ive read the label
u get 100% :p
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ok terran was already efficient as fuck with structures in scbw, and now bunkers are salvageable. and addons are more easily swappable, can be built for other structures before they are done, etc.
I mean it's bad enough that when a shit load of lings/roaches go to raid a base and terran just lifts away CC and tells all the scv to go to a safe place, with minimal losses. Now they can salvage bunkers too. We do not need to see depot walls being thrown down for a push then salvaged every minute and rebuilt further up. Same thing with turrets, At first they make one near the main wall for DT protection, then they need another one later on at the expo, so on, etc. Don't you think that's a little imba? It's like ur depots and turrets can move.
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On March 20 2010 07:02 CharlieMurphy wrote:
ok terran was already efficient as fuck with structures in scbw, and now bunkers are salvageable. and addons are more easily swappable, can be built for other structures before they are done, etc.
I mean it's bad enough that when a shit load of lings/roaches go to raid a base and terran just lifts away CC and tells all the scv to go to a safe place, with minimal losses. Now they can salvage bunkers too. We do not need to see depot walls being thrown down for a push then salvaged every minute and rebuilt further up. Same thing with turrets, At first they make one near the main wall for DT protection, then they need another one later on at the expo, so on, etc. Don't you think that's a little imba? It's like ur depots and turrets can move.
^ This.
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United States4126 Posts
I think if any other building should have salvage, it should be the missile turret. On depots, definitely no for the reasons people have already discussed. For a sensor tower? Just maybe...
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something isn't "imba" just because one race gets to do cool things and another doesn't in exactly the same way. This thread feels like a bunch of whining by toss+zerg users moreso than rational thought.
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This was an ability I was very worried about before the beta, because of its late game potential. Some many SC1 games came down to both sides running out of money, giving terran the ability to recoup money has such a tremendous potential.
Putting it in the bunker gives that building a unique flavor and power without giving the terran race a tremendous overall advantage. I think it was a great call by blizzard.
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On March 20 2010 07:02 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Don't you think that's a little imba? It's like ur depots and turrets can move.
And how would this be any different than what Zerg enjoys?
+ Show Spoiler +
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Salvage on turrets/sensor towers and supply depos would be nice, but on probably on 50% returns (maybe 75%).
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Not much different than the undead unsummon ability in WC3
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It's quite nice in the situations you use a bunker. In TvT for example, if they do a bio early attack, a bunker (or two) and a tank will hold it easily, and you can salvage the bunker later and make it at another expansion. You can block behind your depots/wall so if they die, you still have the bunker in place to block units from getting in, and later just salvage it. Or the all important bunker rush, salvage and run.
It's not a game breaking ability and has its uses, and because of that it is fine. That said, I would love to be able to salvage turrets T_T
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On March 20 2010 07:02 CharlieMurphy wrote:
ok terran was already efficient as fuck with structures in scbw, and now bunkers are salvageable. and addons are more easily swappable, can be built for other structures before they are done, etc.
I mean it's bad enough that when a shit load of lings/roaches go to raid a base and terran just lifts away CC and tells all the scv to go to a safe place, with minimal losses. Now they can salvage bunkers too. We do not need to see depot walls being thrown down for a push then salvaged every minute and rebuilt further up. Same thing with turrets, At first they make one near the main wall for DT protection, then they need another one later on at the expo, so on, etc. Don't you think that's a little imba? It's like ur depots and turrets can move.
I wouldn't count 5 SCVs out of 40-50 minimal losses. :x Hey, Zerg can move their "depots" and "turrets". The only difference with Terran being able to do it is they actually have a delay because they have to rebuild it everytime, and there would be a less than 100% return rate (if it were to be added to said buildings).
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I don't see any problem with salvage working on all buildings. Cut the gain by 50% or so, but just having it for bunkers is just silly. Have it require an scv and like 30 seconds if you wanna make it more complicated but seriously if someone is gonna be building supply depots all the way to your base he is giving you ample time to prepare.
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On March 20 2010 07:13 mmp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2010 07:02 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Don't you think that's a little imba? It's like ur depots and turrets can move. And how would this be any different than what Zerg enjoys? + Show Spoiler +
Thats the point, while your at it, lets give zerg siege tanks and call it a day.
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Sweden33719 Posts
It'd be nice to have turrets be salvagable to compensate for their increased cost.
However, I've always been surprised that you didn't need an SCV to "deconstruct" the building.
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It's good the way it is. You shouldn't be able to tech switch between bunkers, factories, and starports for free, and neither should you be able to get rid of turrets or supply depots since their price incorporates their use throughout the game. Bunkers are for denying early overexpansion and temporary defense and have little to no use later on.
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United Kingdom12027 Posts
Can Sensor towers be salvaged? If there's one building that needs it, it's the sensor tower.
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On March 20 2010 09:28 Half wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2010 07:13 mmp wrote:On March 20 2010 07:02 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Don't you think that's a little imba? It's like ur depots and turrets can move. And how would this be any different than what Zerg enjoys? + Show Spoiler + Thats the point, while your at it, lets give zerg siege tanks and call it a day.
They have Broodlords.... No need for lame tanks broodlords own more baby....
On the subject, salvage should be also on turrents and sensor towers, suplys would be to much, production buildings would give the terran the chance to go back and fort with tech(kinda zerg and protoss style in SC2), this would only be usefull for defense since protos and zerg can look at terran base for free... so as an ofensive move wouldn't work, but would give terran a better defense and the chance to respond to fast changes in enemy army composition XD
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it would be better if you could only salvage buildings at >75% of its hp and only getting 50% of your money back and make an scv required to salvage it.
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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the bunker gives +1 range to units inside the bunker (says it on the unit wire frame if you loom the cursor over it), and it seems quite strong to also salvage for all the minerals back.
Salvaging turrets and sensor towers would be neat, but like FA mentioned, not needing an scv would probably make this quite strong.
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Imo they who make add-on to be salvage. i don't know how it would be balance but it's still funny and interresting on paper
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perhaps have it a researched ability at the Ebay? like, defensive structures have it by default (turret/bunker/tower) and the research allows all structures to be salvaged for (perhaps) their mineral cost only- so for advanced structures you lose the important gas. It would make terran production late game a bit more viable, as in those big endgame battles terrans of the three races are definitely the most immobile about what they can use, one pretty much has to pick a composition and stick with it, unlike zerg whose larva system allows one army to be ground melee and the next to be completely air in the space of a minute or two, while protoss can switch between zealot/sentry, stalker, collossus and immortal, even templar freely, having upgrades carry across all of them, and none of them being overly reliant on specific upgrades (other than storm for HT and legs for zealots, which are default anyway).
Thus, I think some implementation of salvage which gave terran the ability to customise their forces more effectively late game would be great. At the moment they're fantastic early with the addon structures allowing tech/mass divergence for minimal cost, but terrans just don't win lategame vs competent zerg or toss by doing anything other than starvation turtles. Ok, so that's a viable strategy, but is it entertaining, competitive or even fun? In SCBW such games were made intense by constant attempts at positional play and harassment, but with the density of SC2 maps- almost every gradation contains an xpo- such no-man's-land play seems lacking. One is either attacking or defending an expansion directly almost all of the time, there's very little positional play. Thus, to maintain tension and pressure, SC2 must constantly be about moving into or out of significant attacks (as opposed to SC1 where a lot of play was about dancing around each other so a significant attack could be achieved). At the moment we see that only in very, very high level play, with back and forth raids from the very first units onwards, but I think it will gradually become more the norm than the current 'macro to huge army, blow the crap out of each other, winner takes the game' mindset of the lower leagues and even low platinums. If Terran wants to compete in that environment, it needs to be able to adapt more effectively in the lategame, there are too many simple counters to focused builds like MMM or tank/viking, leading to terran armies being composed of pretty much every unit available. Man that got off topic. Still, I think salvage would help here depending on implementation. Obviously being able to salvage everything for 100% and quickly would make issues, but restrictions could easily be imposed, the simplest of which is obviously time. Salvaging a bunker might take 5 seconds, salvaging a supply dept might take 20, a production structure might take 30. More than long enough that it couldn't be used in reaction to an attack very successfully at all. I don't mind the idea of terrans making leapfrogging SDepot walls up the map, it's kind of a zany tactic that might be a cool gimmick in really high level play.
Plenty of options for blizzard to work with there if they want to, I hope it gets some love
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What i would like to see from terrans in tvp becuase not alot of toss go air is to do some sort of take the middle and do a bunker jump salvage push using tanks bunkers and turrets here and there old skool style.
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On March 20 2010 09:54 FrozenArbiter wrote:
It'd be nice to have turrets be salvagable to compensate for their increased cost.
However, I've always been surprised that you didn't need an SCV to "deconstruct" the building.
I think it's fine turrets in sc1 were pretty weak, turrets in sc2 are quite strong with range upgrade and scv to heal them they can do quite a bit of work. So i think the uped cost is justifiable
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On March 20 2010 02:22 Zelniq wrote:
afaik salvaging is popular among the korean terrans
and how is it that you almost never using it in all your games is some kind of evidence supporting that Salvaging is "non-existant"? that's pretty poor logic
100% return on a defensive structure, how can you not see the uses for this?
oh and you're the one who just made that thread about infestors being overpowered vs terran. once again you're being narrow minded. the unit or 1 spell isnt what's overpowered, the issues surrounding balance in tvz are not because of fungal growth.
A little too aggressive, aren't you? It seemed to me like he's arguing that not enough buildings have it, not that it's useless. Of course it has its defensive applications.
Personally I wouldn't want to see Depots salvageable because it turns them into money storage, since you could gradually upgrade half of them with Supply Drop once the map is mined out, and sell the excess. But I don't think it would kill the game if you could sell your Refinery, Bunker, and add-ons: these things are extremely cheap and you normally won't have an excessive number of any of them, therefore the main benefit in being able to sell them is that you can get rid of them without having to attack them, rather than the main benefit being economic.
Sometimes in the hurry of battle I place an addon badly and a tank can't get out, or whatever the hell. I don't mind if you punish me even as much as 50% on the recycle return (because salvage isn't about the money, it's about the convenience and the money is nice), but what sucks is when a very important SCV gets trapped by a structure or when I need to place a building, don't have room for it because of an addon, and haven't got units nearby to destroy it. Terran sim-city nightmares! Some of us will always be clumsy with building placement from time to time.
TLDR: Salvage is good for its convenience, feel free to nerf the money return as much as you want, just let me salvage addons and bunkers and maybe refineries.
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I don't think that salvage should be used for Refineries and other buildings other than the bunker. Bunkers are not NEEDED buildings. You can survive without bunkers. Refineries and Supply depots (etc.) are turned basically into a bank. You can mine out the geyser and get your refund. Extremely imbalanced, especially in the late game when the resources may ALL be gone.
I still think its stupid how a bunker in the red can be refunded for its full cost. It should be based on a percentage imo.
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On March 20 2010 09:28 Half wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2010 07:13 mmp wrote:On March 20 2010 07:02 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Don't you think that's a little imba? It's like ur depots and turrets can move. And how would this be any different than what Zerg enjoys? + Show Spoiler + Thats the point, while your at it, lets give zerg siege tanks and call it a day.
are you fucking kidding?
First of all Zerg needs creep to move and support structures, without it structures bleed to death. How bout we make all terran structures outside the radius of the rest of your base just spontaneously combust. Even that wouldn't even be that bad, because at least you can repair.
Also, overlords don't fucking detect. your require a lair, then an overlord needs to be morphed for 50/100 and pretty long morph time, so that it gets a speed boost, detection, scout unit ability. BUT it loses all chance of of being a drop ship and it's pretty easy to kill for it's cost. 25/75 for obs who are invisible at least.
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So far it seems like the general consensus is that the only buildings that should be salvageable are: bunker, missile turret, sensor tower, tech lab, and reactor.
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You know why not everything is salvageable?
"ow hey my base is going to get owned soon, well I can move my facs, rax, cc and go somewhere else. Meanwhile I simply salvage everything that cant be moved and get my minz and gaz back so I can go spam units somewhere else instead".
Terran would be the new pest, you need to deal with it at every part at the same time, otherwise it will just grow back.
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Ugh, just be happy with having salvaging bunkers - you can play more safe and set up a better economy and then get a friggin refound. That's pretty damn kickass.
Salvaging anything else for that matter doesnt fill it's purpose and would be stupid design.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.sc2armory.com/img/zerg/units/overlord.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.sc2armory.com/img/zerg/buildings/spine_crawler.jpg)
