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Eury
Sweden1126 Posts
On March 24 2010 22:01 DaZe wrote: That's fine, but my frustration towards this feature is that it makes the game yet another "make-this-game-more-simple-than-sc1-in-a-wc3-modified-way"-thing which I can agree is annoying. Care to explain how so considering that this feature isn't in WC3? | ||
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OPSavioR
Sweden1465 Posts
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LaughingTulkas
United States1107 Posts
There are scenarios where either scheme is a disadvantage, you just have to be ready in either case. | ||
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DigiFish21
Philippines6 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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Tinithor
United States1552 Posts
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Wretched
Australia121 Posts
you really need to save larvae, then time the attack with the rest of your forces to coincide when the eggs at your nat all hatch at once. which is dumb. | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9103 Posts
I'm annoyed that you can't use "r" to set rally points though. I still keep hitting r.... | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12235 Posts
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Wretched
Australia121 Posts
On March 25 2010 08:10 Excalibur_Z wrote: It actually works against you when you have enemy units in your base. The best thing you can do is rally away from the enemy and re-engage when you have enough forces to fight back, but with auto-attack-move rally points, your units will always pop out and attack the enemy immediately. This causes the enemy forces to retaliate and you can never build up enough forces to push them out. I'd like a move-only rally point instead, or even an option to choose =/ this. being able to launch a counter attack in your own base is super important, especially when it comes to dealing with aggression early game. "Whats that? you were microing your queen when the zerglings hatched? Well that's too bad because they are ALL dead now." in the end it probably just takes some getting used to, and it might be a good feature to have. but as a broodwar player and as a zerg player its fucking annoying and gonna take some getting used to. | ||
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Apexplayer
United States406 Posts
On March 07 2010 12:30 -orb- wrote: It annoys me partially because it's such a noob-friendly mechanic. If you want to do a proxy gate rush in sc2 you can just rally your gates in the enemy base, select them all and spam Z for a couple minutes. Insert some micro every once in a while for added effect! Those players lose. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
Plz update op Poll: Do you like attack rallies? (Vote): Yes (Vote): HELL NO WTF WERE YOU THINKING? Poll: What should be done about them? (Vote): Make a toggle for Attack/Move commands (Vote): Make them only Move command (like scbw) (Vote): Other | ||
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frankcrest
Canada90 Posts
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xnub
Canada610 Posts
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
And also, in wc3 units have more hp and slower DPS in general, so 1 slight delay or shot isn't as vital as the lesser hp higher dps units in SC2. In a game like sc2 or scbw, you often find yourself in defenders situations and you are on the verge of losing a vital building or dying outright. You need to collect some units before you can make a last attempt to engage and make a comeback. Not only is this very crucial to defending it adds more depth to the game by giving a tool to a defender, but it also creates more tension for a competitive viewer or esports. People are on the edge of their seat watching as the player is about to lose the game, they see him collecting the vital zerglings in the corner of his base waiting for the most minimally effective amount while using the absolute best micro they could possibly use to break their way out of a dire situation. It's SOoooooooooooo Important and fun to play and watch. This is what I was talking about with the slippery slope in sc2 being far far too steep. This attack rally basically suicides your units or causes them to take more damage than you want them to do EVEN if you try to micro them immediately when they come out. There is no fighting the AI when they instantly come out attacking, especially for fast units like a zealot with charge or a zergling with speed. And even further more when there are slowing effects like marauder shots.. Two other aspects of the lack of defenders advantage in sc2, are: Cliffs don't make a % of hits miss anymore. And the other being how structures are armored type and take bonus from units like marauder, immortal, etc. 5 marauders stimmed do incredibly brutally fast DPS to a structure at 100 damage per volley. And immortals do a whopping 50+ damage per hit as well. Bldgs need a new armor type or bonus to armored should be altered for structures. Another good example of this is when bunker rushing or defending with a bunker. When a marine comes out instead of instantly running straight to the bunker, he comes out starts shooting (why on earth would a guy do this irl if there is a safety net 1 inch away) Like it doesn't even make sense.Obviously the guy is gonna come out and be ordered to the bunker immediately, so why would he ignore that order start panic shooting just to be ordered to move into it again anyways. But besides this stupid lore aspect, the marine can come out an literally freaking die because he attacked for that split second instead of running into the bunker. For two reasons: 1) He draws the alert of additional units further away by firing upon them (this is especially bad vs ranged units or chargelots). 2) he stopped just long enough to get a surround or semi surround where the enemy wouldn't normally have been able to micro it (remember when people would place melee units around the spawning point of the rax in scbw to trap a marine? yea now it doesn't even matter because with auto surround and the fact that unit stops in place when he comes out you don't even have to set it up, they do it on their own.) And people arguing that i should micro is a bad argument, because you can claim the same exact thing for the moving units running into death. Only the difference is that the moving units can be rallied another direction in the first place to escape (where as the attack moved will attack regardless of this), and if I want them to attack when they come out I can easily set the rally to nothing and they come out, stop and auto aquire a target, or I just pick them up with my legitimate apm on the way to battle before they do something stupid and attack move them myself like all good players should and would. And don't get me wrong, attack rally is great for certain situations and for noobs, but for higher level play and most situations as far as im concernced it's better to not have it on. So it should be toggleable, or the barracks should just have 2 kinds of rallies. One that attacks, and one that moves. I think a simple solution would be something like making left click do attack rally, and right click do move rally. Make the attack rally line/arrow red and make the move rally arrow/line white. And additionally have 2 manually clickable icons stolen from units to move/attack. And the hotkeys for these buttons don't have to be M or A in case they interfere with unit production hotkeys either, because look at planetary fortress. When you press S it builds an SCV it doesn't STOP attacking. P is used for stop on this bldg. ps- No I(we) are not just being picky. This is vitally important to the success of the game imo. Lots of players love this comeback playstyle or situation, there is a huge sense of satisfaction when you defend an attack against all odds, even if you may still die to the next wave anyways. Ans since Scbw was always a game of just barely making enough units to defend while trying to gain sneak in as much economy as possible this situation comes up A LOT especially for players like me. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On March 25 2010 05:49 LaughingTulkas wrote: I agree with Day[9] that this isn't a feature to complain about, just to be aware of and to plan for. There are scenarios where either scheme is a disadvantage, you just have to be ready in either case. Where did day say anything?? The problem is that the disadvantage with move rallies is easily overcome by reasons mentioned above, and the disadvantage of attack rally is NOT easily overcome if at all in reverse situation. | ||
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Wretched
Australia121 Posts
Attack rally may be good for games like WC3, where you have 1 crappy army and you rally all your units to that hero and army which is constantly running around the map creeping and doing stupid shit. Where one more unit being added is hotkeyed to your group and is almost always better to be attack moving across the map. QUOTE] in warcraft it would be even worse, because losing 1 unit is a big deal (gives experience to enemy hero). Attacking moving across the map your single unit would be more likely to get caught by the opposing army, or start fighting a creep camp by themselves if it's day time in game. | ||
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Spartan
United States2030 Posts
On March 25 2010 08:28 CharlieMurphy wrote: This thread needs a poll soooooooo badly so blizzard can correct the error of their ways. Plz update op Poll: Do you like attack rallies? (Vote): Yes (Vote): HELL NO WTF WERE YOU THINKING? Poll: What should be done about them? (Vote): Make a toggle for Attack/Move commands (Vote): Make them only Move command (like scbw) (Vote): Other Updated, thanks. | ||
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RexFTW
United States172 Posts
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Spartan
United States2030 Posts
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