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StarCraft II Beta - Patch 3 (version 0.5.0.14219B)
Balance Changes
* TERRAN
o Engineering Bay
+ Infantry Armor: The time required for each upgrade has been reduced by 30 seconds, decreasing each upgrade time from 190/220/250 seconds to 160/190/220 seconds.
+ Infantry Weapons: The time required for each upgrade has been reduced by 30 seconds, decreasing each upgrade time from 190/220/250 seconds to 160/190/220 seconds.
o Armory
+ Vehicle Plating: The time required for each upgrade has been reduced by 30 seconds, decreasing each upgrade time from 190/220/250 seconds to 160/190/220 seconds.
+ Vehicle Weapons: The time required for each upgrade has been reduced by 30 seconds, decreasing each upgrade time from 190/220/250 seconds to 160/190/220 seconds.
+ Ship Plating: The time required for each upgrade has been reduced by 30 seconds, decreasing each upgrade time from 190/220/250 seconds to 160/190/220 seconds.
+ Ship Weapons: The time required for each upgrade has been reduced by 30 seconds, decreasing each upgrade time from 190/220/250 seconds to 160/190/220 seconds.
* PROTOSS
o Zealot
+ The maximum shield capacity of this unit has been decreased from 60 to 50.
Bug Fixes
* Fixed a bug where the Infestor's Neural Parasite ability could cause Reapers to lose the ability to move.
* Fixed an issue that could use an incorrect HDR format on some ATI cards.
* Fixed a crash that could happen on some ATI cards.
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Not much of a patch. Boosting Terran ftw though :D
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Protoss getting hit by the nerf bat.. again.
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you win the patch update contest by one minute.
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On March 05 2010 12:33 majesty.k)seRapH wrote:
you win the patch update contest by one minute.
YUS.
wow more terran buffs -_-
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Polar beat me? Crap  I posted the same title and everything O_o
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terran ftw! it was about time! now this is more like it! thanks blizzard!
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I wonder how many patches there will be between now and the finished product?
I'm guessing 20
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terran isnt imba enough lol
and zealot can die to anything now lol
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Terrans always welcome buffs 
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This is what you get when you make Zealots into Zerglots. Their power goes down.
As unit production power goes up, individual unit power goes down.
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maybe Protoss should just not have shields, no warp gates, cybernetics core should cost 1000 minerals, and zealots can't attack anythin.
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The zealot change was solely to make lings more viable vs them, 4 lings for 1 zeal was kind of too much >,>
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lol zealots should be removed from the game at this point xD
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Ugh I hate what these threads usually turn into....
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lol wut? lets ruin protoss even more without addressing the stalker and the fact all terran units start with their upgrades. At least give the stalker blink by default or take away terran abilities on start!
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What?
Terran isn't really underpowered (maybe hellion).
Just because there's like 2-3x more toss players than terran players doesn't mean terran is worse. It just means it's the new iccup.
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Nice, Terran is getting stronger and stronger.
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30 seconds reduction means you can attack a protoss player 30 seconds faster, before he gets his collosus =).
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Damn, they made the zealot even weaker..... I think I'd rather it be more expensive and stronger
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This is ridiculous. If you want to nerf PvT nerf collosi or immortals. Don't make our PvZ even harder.
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United States47024 Posts
I'm curious why the Terran upgrade times were so long to begin with. The Zerg and Protoss upgrades have identical research times in SC2, and all of them have the same research time in SC1.
There's no reason it shouldn't be 140/170/200 IMO.
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Blizz just said 'F U' to every Protoss player. Why did Zealots get nerfed again?
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how about buffing Stalker? They are so incredibly weak at the moment.
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Next patch
Protoss
- Has been removed from the game.
(HAHAHAHA honestly i'm not a protoss player and as a terran player its really funny, but MAN you gotta feel bad for em, that being said Toss players have been toppin the divisions and terran at the bottom sooo i can't say this is too much really)
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On March 05 2010 12:37 pzea469 wrote:
I think I'd rather it be more expensive and stronger
Blame warpgate cooldowns. Combined with Chronoboosts unit production power the Protoss have as much unit production as the lesser races which means their individual unit power has to go down. And racial diversity suffers.
This is why I advocated for a Protoss resource macro mechanic. Because Protoss are about expensive and few but strong units. Not having many weaker ones.
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Before this patch, to beat Terr as Zerg you needed better skill and at least twice as many bases. Now Zerg officially cannot beat Terran. Protoss should always do some sort of proxy-gate allin so they have a chance.
I'm glad I switched to Terran just today.
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On March 05 2010 12:41 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2010 12:37 pzea469 wrote:
I think I'd rather it be more expensive and stronger Blame warpgate cooldowns. Combined with Chronoboosts unit production power the Protoss have as much unit production as the lesser races which means their individual unit power has to go down. And racial diversity suffers.
Warpgates are early-mid game. We're totally screwed in the early game.
Thank god I started playing random after the 2nd 'patch'.
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Zeesh terran are already unstoppable late game lol they just love pushing it. Also why do they never do shit to the zerg sense when is zerg perfect.
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So what? Still not gonna fix PvZ? That matchup is really broken and needs a more standard play.
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My guess is they're simply reacting to the lack of Terrans in the higher ranks as of now. The changes aren't necessarily balance issues but the lack of substantial data/evidence to make balance changes (besides a lack of players using a race giving it the stigma that it's weak).
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On March 05 2010 12:36 genwar wrote:
The zealot change was solely to make lings more viable vs them, 4 lings for 1 zeal was kind of too much >,>
1zealot = 100min 2 suply
4 ling = 100min 2 suply
so i though that was pretty even that zerg need 4 ling to beat 1 zlots
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Yeah you guys are right, the blizzard balance guys have no idea what they are doing. Ill trust the guy with 10 posts instead.
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On March 05 2010 12:41 goszar wrote:
Before this patch, to beat Terr as Zerg you needed better skill and at least twice as many bases. Now Zerg officially cannot beat Terran. Protoss should always do some sort of proxy-gate allin so they have a chance.
I'm glad I switched to Terran just today.
Because their upgrades research a bit faster now? lol funny people.
Had expected more changes and maybe a bit of help for zerg but game already looks ok in balance.
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On March 05 2010 12:40 Tinithor wrote:
Next patch
Protoss
- Has been removed from the game.
(HAHAHAHA honestly i'm not a protoss player and as a terran player its really funny, but MAN you gotta feel bad for em, that being said Toss players have been toppin the divisions and terran at the bottom sooo i can't say this is too much really)
Ya thats why there is a terran who is what, 180-8? There are simply more protoss players, only reason you see more of them.
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Nice right before patch I was just thinking, damn I wish this +1 would finish 30seconds earlier so I could move out now
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looks like the ctrl + right click thing was a feature and not a bug
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On March 05 2010 12:46 Kennigit wrote:
Yeah you guys are right, the blizzard balance guys have no idea what they are doing. Ill trust the guy with 10 posts instead.
LoL
Finally Kennigit posts without the use of sarcasm!
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Osaka27154 Posts
Rearranged your thread title so it looks better in the sidebar. Thanks for the update.
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I would love to make this comment a pure ellipsis.
*sigh*
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Zerglings just got a hell lot stronger in PvZ =p
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What no! Zealots were fair!
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On March 05 2010 12:47 Irrelevant wrote:
Nice right before patch I was just thinking, damn I wish this +1 would finish 30seconds earlier so I could move out now
lolol
I love how people react to these patches, it's absolute hilarity
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United States47024 Posts
On March 05 2010 12:46 jeremycafe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2010 12:40 Tinithor wrote:
Next patch
Protoss
- Has been removed from the game.
(HAHAHAHA honestly i'm not a protoss player and as a terran player its really funny, but MAN you gotta feel bad for em, that being said Toss players have been toppin the divisions and terran at the bottom sooo i can't say this is too much really) Ya thats why there is a terran who is what, 180-8? There are simply more protoss players, only reason you see more of them.
lol CowGoMoo is a QA tester for Blizzard. The amount of time he's had access to this game is simply not comparable to anyone else.
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You know what? I actually think Zealots were overpowered... I was going 4Gate Zealots and only 4 Stalkers + 2 Immortals + 2 Sentries vs any race and my win rate was about 75-80% with that strategy.
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On March 05 2010 12:46 Kennigit wrote:
Yeah you guys are right, the blizzard balance guys have no idea what they are doing. Ill trust the guy with 10 posts instead.
Have you seen them balance wow?
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Sweden33719 Posts
o Zealot
+ The maximum shield capacity of this unit has been decreased from 60 to 50.
Zealots aren't even overpowered... I guess this is their attempt at fixing PvP?
On March 05 2010 12:47 Crunchums wrote:looks like the ctrl + right click thing was a feature and not a bug
Who knows, I'm sure most issues that are "current" to us, aren't going to be visible in the immediate patch. Oh and yeah clearly intended, but it could still be changed.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 05 2010 12:50 hacpee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2010 12:46 Kennigit wrote:
Yeah you guys are right, the blizzard balance guys have no idea what they are doing. Ill trust the guy with 10 posts instead. Have you seen them balance wow?
That has more to do with the fact that PvE and PvP content are basically un-reconcilable with regard to balance.
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On March 05 2010 12:50 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +o Zealot
+ The maximum shield capacity of this unit has been decreased from 60 to 50. Zealots aren't even overpowered... I guess this is their attempt at fixing PvP?
It was fixed last patch.
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I don't get why Protoss are complaining about the Zealot nerf against Terrans
T's will EMP the shields off to zero anyways =D lol
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To be honest I was really expecting Emp Shot to get nerfed, either made it have to be researched, or upped the mana cost or lowered the effect
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Okay, Reactor-Marine and Marauder rush REALLY scares me now
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On March 05 2010 12:46 Kennigit wrote:
Yeah you guys are right, the blizzard balance guys have no idea what they are doing. Ill trust the guy with 10 posts instead.
qft
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c'mon people, terrans aren't getting buffed, they are just getting unnerfed!
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On March 05 2010 12:33 tyreek wrote:
Protoss getting hit by the nerf bat.. again.
10 shields? That's more like the nerf toothpick. =)
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Hm, so is this how CowGoMoo plans to stay on top? :p
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wtf is this shit? STOP MAKING PROTOSS WEAKER
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On March 05 2010 12:40 Tinithor wrote:
Next patch
Protoss
- Has been removed from the game.
(HAHAHAHA honestly i'm not a protoss player and as a terran player its really funny, but MAN you gotta feel bad for em, that being said Toss players have been toppin the divisions and terran at the bottom sooo i can't say this is too much really)
Hahahahahah. They need the nerfs though, so it's ok. Hopefully we see more T on the platinum ladders.
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blame it on the armor system >.<
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Man I'm glad this happened
I just got raped earlier by a 4 gate build that involved mostly mass zealots
I didn't realise hellions only do regular damage to shields instead of bonus as well
or maybe i was seeing things
either way this is a welcome change, but terran's upgrade speed might be a bit overkill
here's hoping banelings get a little bit of a damage nerf next or something ^_^
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bwahahaha, makes it much easier for a zerg player to block zealot rushes with zerglings
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lol was watching day[9] when it came out, was worried for a moment but its all good now
these were not the changes i thought would happen, imo the ups were fine and the zel shield is kinda random, i guess people really have a problem with early zel rushes
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United States17042 Posts
urk they keep making protoss weaker. PvT just got a lot harder, and PvZ didn't get easier, that's for sure. I hope to heck that they're not relying on the fact that half of north america is protoss...
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They might want more feedback from players playing other races. Feel bad for protoss players though.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 05 2010 13:01 Mystlord wrote:The decrease in upgrade research time is interesting in that it means that Terran upgrade times were longer than Zerg/Protoss to begin with. All upgrades are now at 160 seconds. Unless Terrans were so imba that their upgrades needed to be longer than the other races... 
I thought Zerg and Protoss upgrades were all 140/170/200?
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United States17042 Posts
On March 05 2010 13:01 zealing wrote:lol was watching day[9] when it came out, was worried for a moment but its all good now these were not the changes i thought would happen, imo the ups were fine and the zel shield is kinda random, i guess people really have a problem with early zel rushes
that just shouldn't be true, because gateway building time became longer as well -_-;
at least in TvP, you can make perfect walls, which should allow you to fend off the zealot harass at the ramp easily. ZvP they might have had somewhat of a problem...although you can get plenty of lings out in time. Maybe there's too many zergs getting beaten by proxy chrono gates?
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Wow terran gets a huge boost. Blizzard sure is encouraging terrans to upgrade.
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Wtf zealot lol
And wow massive terran upgrades boost
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On March 05 2010 13:04 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2010 13:01 Mystlord wrote:The decrease in upgrade research time is interesting in that it means that Terran upgrade times were longer than Zerg/Protoss to begin with. All upgrades are now at 160 seconds. Unless Terrans were so imba that their upgrades needed to be longer than the other races... I thought Zerg and Protoss upgrades were all 140/170/200?
No. Now, everything is 160/190/220.
Previously Zerg and Protoss upgrades were 160/190/220 and Terran upgrades were 190/220/250.
I don't get why Terran upgrades were longer by 30 seconds to begin with...
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As a random player I don't really mind the changes, but I think Zerg could use an alteration to roaches and a buff on other units/upgrades to create incentive to go beyond tier 2 for burrow/nydus. Protoss needs a way to deal with ghost EMP, it's really atrocious the way that 1-2 ghosts negates an entire toss ground force. Lastly I think Terran could use a Marauder nerf, as I am almost positive all the current balance changes stem from the over-utilization of this all-too-appropriate unit. Just as the reaper was a ridiculous raper of bases (Ironically, it's still good) the marauder is the ifyouengageyoubetterbeabletobewinthebattlebecauseyou'renotgettingaway gamebreaker. Nerf the Marauder maim.
all in all though the changes aren't bad, it just seems that they haven't decided yet how to selectively buff Zerg and toss. While these changes will help the mid-bottom tier of players, the top end is going to get Terran Heavy very fast.
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Ah some protoss players are pretty funny.
First they complain about the 'Gateway nerf' that increased building time from 50 to 65 seconds... when barracks and spawning pool both already took 65 seconds to make.
Then they complain about terran upgrade time buff when both protos/zerg upgrades still take less time to upgrade than terran time (based off sc2armory.com times that I'm reading).
Then -10 on zealot shields for 150 total hp (100hp + 50 shields)... when they still have too much shields compared to terran/zerg comparable. 4 zerglings (100 mineral, 0 gas, 2 pop) have 140 combined hp, the zealot will easily come out on top considering how fast the lings will die and lose their attack power. 2 marines (100 mineral, 0 gas, 2 pop) is 110 hp (I'm counting combat shield) or Hellions 90 hp (even worse)... though 2 marines have more utility and a faster attack speed zealots are still too good when they get charge.
Fact is zealots need to be nerfed again to be balanced And they probably will be I have faith in bliz :>
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United States47024 Posts
On March 05 2010 13:09 Mystlord wrote:
No. Now, everything is 160/190/220.
Previously Zerg and Protoss upgrades were 160/190/220 and Terran upgrades were 190/220/250.
I don't get why Terran upgrades were longer by 30 seconds to begin with...
Oh ok then.
Frankly, it's hardly a buff more than an un-nerf if Terran were the only race with longer upgrades (especially given that the upgrade times in SC1 were identical). Complaining about it is kind of silly.
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Seems that blizzard is guiding terran twords more of a mass unit heavy upgrade race
very noob friendly IMO
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I'm sure the upgrade times were an oversight, and this was just a fix for it. If the vehicle and air upgrades were already lower, then that would definitely be the case.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On March 05 2010 12:50 hacpee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2010 12:46 Kennigit wrote:
Yeah you guys are right, the blizzard balance guys have no idea what they are doing. Ill trust the guy with 10 posts instead. Have you seen them balance wow?
have you seen them balance STARCRAFT?
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On March 05 2010 13:13 zizzefex wrote:Ah some protoss players are pretty funny. First they complain about the 'Gateway nerf' that increased building time from 50 to 65 seconds... when barracks and spawning pool both already took 65 seconds to make. Then they complain about terran upgrade time buff when both protos/zerg upgrades still take less time to upgrade than terran time (based off sc2armory.com times that I'm reading). Then -10 on zealot shields for 150 total hp (100hp + 50 shields)... when they still have too much shields compared to terran/zerg comparable. 4 zerglings (100 mineral, 0 gas, 2 pop) have 140 combined hp, the zealot will easily come out on top considering how fast the lings will die and lose their attack power. 2 marines (100 mineral, 0 gas, 2 pop) is 110 hp (I'm counting combat shield) or Hellions 90 hp (even worse)... though 2 marines have more utility and a faster attack speed zealots are still too good when they get charge. Fact is zealots need to be nerfed again to be balanced And they probably will be I have faith in bliz :>
bahahahah
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United States47024 Posts
On March 05 2010 13:14 SevenAteNine wrote:
Seems that blizzard is guiding terran twords more of a mass unit heavy upgrade race
very noob friendly IMO
Because clearly making all the races upgrade at the same rate makes one of them more of a "heavy upgrade" race?
Not sure how the logic of that works, especially since Terran ground needs 4 upgrades, while Zerg and Protoss ground each only need 3.
And people saying that zealots were fine the way they were need to see Mystlord's post somewhere about the relative damage rates of Zerglings and Zealots vs. SC1. The visible stats are the same, but the relative attack speed of Zealots in comparison to Zerglings is significantly faster than it was in SC1.
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Iran17695 Posts
god damnit can they stop nerfing Protoss, WTFFFF
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I think Charge should be lowered to 150/150... takes way too long and by the time its researched becomes almost useless for early timing attacks vs zerg.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On March 05 2010 13:13 zizzefex wrote:Ah some protoss players are pretty funny. First they complain about the 'Gateway nerf' that increased building time from 50 to 65 seconds... when barracks and spawning pool both already took 65 seconds to make. Then they complain about terran upgrade time buff when both protos/zerg upgrades still take less time to upgrade than terran time (based off sc2armory.com times that I'm reading). Then -10 on zealot shields for 150 total hp (100hp + 50 shields)... when they still have too much shields compared to terran/zerg comparable. 4 zerglings (100 mineral, 0 gas, 2 pop) have 140 combined hp, the zealot will easily come out on top considering how fast the lings will die and lose their attack power. 2 marines (100 mineral, 0 gas, 2 pop) is 110 hp (I'm counting combat shield) or Hellions 90 hp (even worse)... though 2 marines have more utility and a faster attack speed zealots are still too good when they get charge. Fact is zealots need to be nerfed again to be balanced And they probably will be I have faith in bliz :>
I really don't think zealots were/are imbalanced in anyway except maybe PvP.... And I don't play PvP so that's only from hearing they are massive zealot wars.
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anyone else having missing animations since the update?
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On March 05 2010 13:22 nomsayin wrote:
anyone else having missing animations since the update?
yah I actually asked Artosis when I (luckily) got paired against him and he said he had no problem with his animations. My animations were completely fucked though.
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hopefully this is the end of the protoss/terran attention, they really need to start tweaking zerg
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This thread really takes me back to reading old WoW patch notes
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On March 05 2010 13:34 Tsagacity wrote:This thread really takes me back to reading old WoW patch notes
Exact same thing I thought of lol
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I think the effects of this patch are mostly psychological... I just played a pvp in this patch where at the beginning me and my opponent were discussing how zealots were nerfed and stalkers were terrible and then it turned out both of us went for phoenix / stalker and didn't build more than 4 zealots the whole game.
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On March 05 2010 13:05 G3nXsiS wrote:
Wow terran gets a huge boost. Blizzard sure is encouraging terrans to upgrade.
they were just set to the same speed as protoss and zerg upgrades.... I fail to see how this is a "huge " boost...
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I think blizzard is gonna nerf toss and boost other races until people stop picking and winning with toss so much. So change your race you fuckers.
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On March 05 2010 13:13 zizzefex wrote:Ah some protoss players are pretty funny. First they complain about the 'Gateway nerf' that increased building time from 50 to 65 seconds... when barracks and spawning pool both already took 65 seconds to make. Then they complain about terran upgrade time buff when both protos/zerg upgrades still take less time to upgrade than terran time (based off sc2armory.com times that I'm reading). Then -10 on zealot shields for 150 total hp (100hp + 50 shields)... when they still have too much shields compared to terran/zerg comparable. 4 zerglings (100 mineral, 0 gas, 2 pop) have 140 combined hp, the zealot will easily come out on top considering how fast the lings will die and lose their attack power. 2 marines (100 mineral, 0 gas, 2 pop) is 110 hp (I'm counting combat shield) or Hellions 90 hp (even worse)... though 2 marines have more utility and a faster attack speed zealots are still too good when they get charge. Fact is zealots need to be nerfed again to be balanced And they probably will be I have faith in bliz :>
You are an incredible troll or you've never played sc. 4 lings beat one zealot with little trouble, especially with something called micro.
Despite the fact that (in sc1) a zealot has such imba 160 life to the lings' total of 140. (It's actually more imba in terms of hp if you count the fact that a zeal has 1 armor, I assume they do in sc2 too? I've played but haven't taken notice of that.) But looking at things in terms of total hps is pretty ridiculous.
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You guys realize that the upgrade timing change is STILL a buff for Terran? Just because it was changed to what the other races have doesn't mean it can't be a buff. Maybe Terran was made in the mindset that they would have fewer upgrades?
If so, they changed their minds.
Terran will now fare better against the other races. Yes, it is a huge buff.
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Nerf zealot attack start up and speed and boost zergling attack speed and nerf their move speed
zerglings are ffs worthless late game the game attack power on some units and ability to form walls and balls just rapes lings late game lings are essentially meat shields you throw your money away so your worth while units can live.
Also sc2 ZvP is fucked up at hell 4 lings beat 1 zealot 3 lings get beaten by 1 zealot and the zealot then can take on 2 more lings without dieing. Meaning that zealot killed 5 lings, if you send lings in 1 by 1 a zealot can eat up about 8 lings, but if the zerg spends as much on lings and keeps them together and gets a great surround on them zealots always by if the zerg is 1 2 lings short zerg always looses, and when you scale it up in numbers zealots always win as they end up forming walls with their decient ai and the lings get stuck behind each other and cannot win.
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On March 05 2010 13:05 GHOSTCLAW wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2010 13:01 zealing wrote:lol was watching day[9] when it came out, was worried for a moment but its all good now these were not the changes i thought would happen, imo the ups were fine and the zel shield is kinda random, i guess people really have a problem with early zel rushes that just shouldn't be true, because gateway building time became longer as well -_-; at least in TvP, you can make perfect walls, which should allow you to fend off the zealot harass at the ramp easily. ZvP they might have had somewhat of a problem...although you can get plenty of lings out in time. Maybe there's too many zergs getting beaten by proxy chrono gates?
Teh gate build time is a bit longer but doesn't change the part where chrono boost lets their production rape you early game.
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United States4126 Posts
The Zealot shield change seems so random...
I can't imagine it changing the game THAT much though.
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The change to zealot will be so easy to change if it causes further imbalance... stop the rage -.-
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United States47024 Posts
On March 05 2010 13:54 Jonoman92 wrote:
You are an incredible troll or you've never played sc. 4 lings beat one zealot with little trouble, especially with something called micro.
Despite the fact that (in sc1) a zealot has such imba 160 life to the lings' total of 140. (It's actually more imba in terms of hp if you count the fact that a zeal has 1 armor, I assume they do in sc2 too? I've played but haven't taken notice of that.) But looking at things in terms of total hps is pretty ridiculous.
Actually, it's the comparison to SC1 that warrants a zealot nerf. The relative hit points and damage values are the same, but Zealots comparatively attack much faster than in SC1:
On March 02 2010 09:12 Mystlord wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 08:32 Yurebis wrote:
Is there any hard data that zerglings and zealots do in fact have the same dps in sc2 compared to sc1?
It seems to me zerglings attack a lot slower in sc2 even with adrenal upgrade, like 3.5 attacks per second when in sc1 it was like 5. Look at my previous post. Absolute DPS doesn't matter in this case, what matters is relative DPS, of which it's now 2:1 instead of 3:1. And since you brought up the Adrenal upgrade: SC1: Normal Zergling Cooldown - 8Normal Zealot Cooldown - 22 Adrenal Zergling Cooldown - 6Ratio w/o Adrenal - 2.75:1 Ratio w/ Adrenal - 3.6667 SC2: Normal Zergling Cooldown - .696Normal Zealot Cooldown - 1.2 Adrenal Zergling Cooldown - .587Ratio w/o Adrenal - 1.724:1 Ratio w/ Adrenal - 2.044 So yes, Zerglings suck relative balls against Zealots now. Your primary damage dealers should come from other sources. If you want hard DPS numbers, take the damage values for Zerglings and Zealot, divide them by the cooldowns I just gave you, and tada~. I reiterate that ling DPS decreases dramatically compared to Zealots since losing 1 ling is pretty big.
Blizzard probably thought it was easier to downscale the shield values rather than having to redo the Zergling/Zealot attack animations.
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Wow I'm surprised no word on Stalkers yet, they really are not that sweet.
O well it's still only beta, I am sure there will be a lot more changes very soon !
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Does anyone know of a mirror with the new patch?
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Iran17695 Posts
Anyways is it just me or has every single patch made Protoss weaker? It seems like literally NOTHING has been added to Protoss. Mothership got nerfed, Chrono Boost got nerfed, gateways got nerfed, and now even zealots got nerfed. As if they don't get smashed by marauders easily enough as it is.
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nerf zerg already jesus christ
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I think this is a great patch, with the new wave. Terran is clearly the weakest race and requires the most to win with. I think it's the right idea to get a nice balance before completely rebuilding the roach. Cause that is going to happen right?
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Nerfing Protoss again? Also good now maybe more terrans will focus on getting fast upgrades.
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lol toss nerfed again
blizzard doesn't seem to realize that toss is only powerful with the proxy pylon warp gate strat and otherwise lategame they're useless. Instead of fixing the proxy pylon warp gate strat they just continually nerf them
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WTF, Terrans get all the upgrade buffs and their M+M ball is the source of constant irratation.
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On March 05 2010 14:15 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Wow I'm surprised no word on Stalkers yet, they really are not that sweet. O well it's still only beta, I am sure there will be a lot more changes very soon !
problem wih stalkers is they are anti armor like goons but immortals are so much better then stalkers at that. i belive their idea is like there are seige tanks well instead of goons being insta owned by it stalkers can blink in close enough to have a bit more even fight
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On March 05 2010 14:21 Fayth wrote:
nerf zerg already jesus christ
Zerg has a worthless late game it's almost entirely based around ultralisk or broodlords to do the dmg only problem with it is that you end up producing 100 zerglings because you have tons of extra mins but not enough gas to produce the worthwhile units you want, roaches are worthless in any match up that isn't zvz and hydralisk don't move fast and get decimated by seaker missels and storm and any form of splash siege tanks and colossus. So really zerg has no late game granted zerg has a powerful easily game when done right.
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On March 05 2010 14:30 Virtue wrote:Zerg has a worthless late game it's almost entirely based around ultralisk or broodlords to do the dmg only problem with it is that you end up producing 100 zerglings because you have tons of extra mins but not enough gas to produce the worthwhile units you want, roaches are worthless in any match up that isn't zvz and hydralisk don't move fast and get decimated by seaker missels and storm and any form of splash siege tanks and colossus. So really zerg has no late game granted zerg has a powerful easily game when done right.
yeah man, broodlords are soooo worthless, they're fucking beastly, prob strongest unit in the whole game
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yesssssssssss thank god i chose to play terran, all y'all on the protoss bandwagon can suck it
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
What? And this is all what i was waiting for whole week? Changing of numbers? Is it beta? In WC3 patch we can see much more fixing though this game released long time ago...
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On March 05 2010 14:30 Virtue wrote:Zerg has a worthless late game it's almost entirely based around ultralisk or broodlords to do the dmg only problem with it is that you end up producing 100 zerglings because you have tons of extra mins but not enough gas to produce the worthwhile units you want, roaches are worthless in any match up that isn't zvz and hydralisk don't move fast and get decimated by seaker missels and storm and any form of splash siege tanks and colossus. So really zerg has no late game granted zerg has a powerful easily game when done right.
so doesnt that just mean u need to get more expansions...just like 5 gas in sc1?
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I love Upgrades with T, so thats a cool patch... I do think some kind of boost for the upgrades was necessary tough and it won't really make T imba or sth, just open up another "route" to go to prepare for a later stage of the game the via upgrading.
It's just another thing you can do when you're at a safe point of the game and you don't wanna tech, attack or expand. Also, it's often very good to get a failry early EBay to defend against early(ish) DT's/Banshees/Air-Units in general when playing a macro-oriented/defensive game.
Upgrades are also hugely important for playing Terran defensively, because of the push-timing. It's mandatory that you have a timing-based advantage when pushing out of your base and the Upgrades have been a big part of that.
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Ok seriously? Scrap the pheonix and give us scouts back... or give stalkers a plus against air...something so we can kill a single fucking air unit...
zealots where not over powered and I stand behind that 100% anyone that wants to argue about that, lets argue.
It's just another thing you can do when you're at a safe point of the game and you don't wanna tech, attack or expand.
If you don't want to do any of those three your playing wrong.
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I'm pretty sure Blizzard is collecting a lot of statistic unit usage and the like. I lost to a number of Zealot rushes just before the patch today and which were extremely strong.
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This all makes a terran player very, very happy. ^^
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On March 05 2010 12:46 jeremycafe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2010 12:40 Tinithor wrote:
Next patch
Protoss
- Has been removed from the game.
(HAHAHAHA honestly i'm not a protoss player and as a terran player its really funny, but MAN you gotta feel bad for em, that being said Toss players have been toppin the divisions and terran at the bottom sooo i can't say this is too much really) Ya thats why there is a terran who is what, 180-8? There are simply more protoss players, only reason you see more of them.
Well I dunno maybe It's because he's been playing for several months? Also I'm among the best terrans on US server and I find it fairly hard to win games vs average protosses....
I don't wanna sound arrogant but I'd prob have much better stats with Protoss as they seem stronger as of now... It might also be because I was P user on bw, dunno, but still terran feel somewhat a bit weaker
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On March 05 2010 14:36 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2010 14:30 Virtue wrote:On March 05 2010 14:21 Fayth wrote:
nerf zerg already jesus christ Zerg has a worthless late game it's almost entirely based around ultralisk or broodlords to do the dmg only problem with it is that you end up producing 100 zerglings because you have tons of extra mins but not enough gas to produce the worthwhile units you want, roaches are worthless in any match up that isn't zvz and hydralisk don't move fast and get decimated by seaker missels and storm and any form of splash siege tanks and colossus. So really zerg has no late game granted zerg has a powerful easily game when done right. yeah man, broodlords are soooo worthless, they're fucking beastly, prob strongest unit in the whole game
Wow way not to read anything i wrote
I said ultralisk and broodlords are zergs only worthwhile units late game
and it requires massing of them to the point where you need to hold many bases to get the gas for them becuase they are super gas intensive and zerglings with minerals the shit you have flowing in by the shit ton by then are worthless late game as they melt to everything
On March 05 2010 14:50 Polar_Nada wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2010 14:30 Virtue wrote:On March 05 2010 14:21 Fayth wrote:
nerf zerg already jesus christ Zerg has a worthless late game it's almost entirely based around ultralisk or broodlords to do the dmg only problem with it is that you end up producing 100 zerglings because you have tons of extra mins but not enough gas to produce the worthwhile units you want, roaches are worthless in any match up that isn't zvz and hydralisk don't move fast and get decimated by seaker missels and storm and any form of splash siege tanks and colossus. So really zerg has no late game granted zerg has a powerful easily game when done right. so doesnt that just mean u need to get more expansions...just like 5 gas in sc1?
The only problem is late game terran and protoss as more mobile it it's easteremly hard to hold a bases when they only hold maybe 1 2 expos including their nat and have a soild defense to go out and strike at you and retreat before you can readly intercept the problem is zerg need gas heavy units to do anything late game because their basic unit the zergling is worthless late game pretty much they are just expensive meat shields that you buy because you have so many minerals you might as well and compounded with the lack of casters makes shit worse.
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I wonder if blizz wil continue to buff terran until people actually start playing terran more :|
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On March 05 2010 15:04 quinnydinny wrote:
I lost to a number of Zealot rushes just before the patch today and which were extremely strong.
What race do you play?
Terran - Wall That Shit Off
Zerg - Don't Rush Friggen Roaches....get some zerglings out to help
Protoss - Where were your zealots?
And most importantly....SCOUT...You can see it coming before it happens if you scout right.
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dude virtue, banelings + lings combo against Terran is pretty fucking amazingly strong as it is almost impossible to micro against it, so unless terran switch to all mech, banelings are still very useful throughout the whole game.... I mean come on, they really need to nerf broodlords so they don't throw an infinite amount of broodlings....
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On March 05 2010 13:09 Mystlord wrote:
Previously Zerg and Protoss upgrades were 160/190/220 and Terran upgrades were 190/220/250.
I don't get why Terran upgrades were longer by 30 seconds to begin with...
There was probably a strong timing attack in closed beta that that was an attempt to nerf.
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Lame patch, IMO. The zeal nerf was probably to discourage the abundance of early aggression from P, especially against T's, which was very effective.
I still question the basis for these changes, though. Why on earth did Blizz choose to buff T weapon/armor upgrades? -_- When are they going to make Phoenixes more cost effective and make Templar tech less useless?
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United States47024 Posts
On March 05 2010 15:39 asdfTT123 wrote:
Why on earth did Blizz choose to buff T weapon/armor upgrades?
Because having the upgrade times randomly higher than every other race's upgrades, especially when SC1 set the precedent that they should be the same, is a little awkward looking.
They can rebalance other things accordingly, but I don't see how people can argue with that change in particular.
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On March 05 2010 12:36 genwar wrote:
The zealot change was solely to make lings more viable vs them, 4 lings for 1 zeal was kind of too much >,>
1 zeal = 100 minerals, 2 supply
4 zerglings = 100 minerals, 2 supply
I don't see why that didn't work.
i think blizzards going the wrong way with zeals. if anything, make them bulkier and just reduce the build time so you don't get a horde of them
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Dunno how they didn't think to make any changes to zerg... They're too powerful.
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On March 05 2010 15:22 Fayth wrote:
dude virtue, banelings + lings combo against Terran is pretty fucking amazingly strong as it is almost impossible to micro against it, so unless terran switch to all mech, banelings are still very useful throughout the whole game.... I mean come on, they really need to nerf broodlords so they don't throw an infinite amount of broodlings....
lol not really a good sized terran ball fulled upgraded vs your fulled upgraded lings is nothing, you know how i handle it as terran i missile the bane ling ground tiny my rines micro them away leave my marauders in front to take the dmg and rines liquefy the remaining lings and banelings. I just killed most of your force i push out and kill 2 of your expos till before you could build another sizeable force before you could attack me again and retreat back to my base where i made 30 more rines ez because they cost mins only and rape lings. I play platinum zvt late game is dam near impossible your only bet is ultra ling and hope he doesn't build up a sizeable ball before then. Zerg is very strong earily to mid game zvt but it just dies down once terrans upgrades and makes a good size ball of mostly rines some maruaders and medivac and ravens.
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On March 05 2010 15:58 ItsBigfoot wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2010 12:36 genwar wrote:
The zealot change was solely to make lings more viable vs them, 4 lings for 1 zeal was kind of too much >,> 1 zeal = 100 minerals, 2 supply 4 zerglings = 100 minerals, 2 supply I don't see why that didn't work. i think blizzards going the wrong way with zeals. if anything, make them bulkier and just reduce the build time so you don't get a horde of them
except hordes of zealots completely decimate hordes of zerglings due to ai and better attack ability, along with the fact that crackling upgrade is worthless 20% because lings just auto die late game and they basically buffed zealots attack power and nerfed zerglings attack power, granted i have a really high zvp win rate but that's only due to i don't let games ever get to late game i play a hyper aggressive harassment style and most toss gg by mid game.+
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On March 05 2010 15:11 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2010 12:46 jeremycafe wrote:On March 05 2010 12:40 Tinithor wrote:
Next patch
Protoss
- Has been removed from the game.
(HAHAHAHA honestly i'm not a protoss player and as a terran player its really funny, but MAN you gotta feel bad for em, that being said Toss players have been toppin the divisions and terran at the bottom sooo i can't say this is too much really) Ya thats why there is a terran who is what, 180-8? There are simply more protoss players, only reason you see more of them. Well I dunno maybe It's because he's been playing for several months? Also I'm among the best terrans on US server and I find it fairly hard to win games vs average protosses.... I don't wanna sound arrogant but I'd prob have much better stats with Protoss as they seem stronger as of now... It might also be because I was P user on bw, dunno, but still terran feel somewhat a bit weaker
if you're one of the best terrans its solely because of lack of competition, you have no clue how to play and are entirely dependent on your opponent not knowing your're rushing for some sort of coin flip attack. of course you lose to newbies when you do risky allins every game, if ANYONE scouts it its gonna fail.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 05 2010 16:17 Virtue wrote:
except hordes of zealots completely decimate hordes of zerglings due to ai and better attack ability, along with the fact that crackling upgrade is worthless 20% + attack speed instead of 100% like it was in brood war basically the buffed zealots attack power and nerfed zerglings attack power, granted i have a really high zvp win rate but that's only due to i don't let games ever get to late game i play a hyper aggressive harassment style and most toss gg by mid game.+
Adrenal Glands is not +100% attack speed in Brood War:
On March 02 2010 09:12 Mystlord wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 08:32 Yurebis wrote:
Is there any hard data that zerglings and zealots do in fact have the same dps in sc2 compared to sc1?
It seems to me zerglings attack a lot slower in sc2 even with adrenal upgrade, like 3.5 attacks per second when in sc1 it was like 5. Look at my previous post. Absolute DPS doesn't matter in this case, what matters is relative DPS, of which it's now 2:1 instead of 3:1. And since you brought up the Adrenal upgrade: SC1: Normal Zergling Cooldown - 8Normal Zealot Cooldown - 22 Adrenal Zergling Cooldown - 6Ratio w/o Adrenal - 2.75:1 Ratio w/ Adrenal - 3.6667 SC2: Normal Zergling Cooldown - .696Normal Zealot Cooldown - 1.2 Adrenal Zergling Cooldown - .587Ratio w/o Adrenal - 1.724:1 Ratio w/ Adrenal - 2.044 So yes, Zerglings suck relative balls against Zealots now. Your primary damage dealers should come from other sources. If you want hard DPS numbers, take the damage values for Zerglings and Zealot, divide them by the cooldowns I just gave you, and tada~. I reiterate that ling DPS decreases dramatically compared to Zealots since losing 1 ling is pretty big.
That said, the Zergling vs. Zealot is pretty well skewed toward Zealots when compared to Brood War.
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On March 05 2010 13:15 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2010 12:50 hacpee wrote:On March 05 2010 12:46 Kennigit wrote:
Yeah you guys are right, the blizzard balance guys have no idea what they are doing. Ill trust the guy with 10 posts instead. Have you seen them balance wow? have you seen them balance STARCRAFT?
I'm sure Dustin Browder was there to balance Starcraft. Its not like he was designing Red Alert or anything back then.
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Noticing a big problem since patch. With my Graphics options set to High my Roaches do not leave a porjectile trail for their ranged attack, but when the setting is on Medium, I do see it. anyone else notice this?
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blizzard knows what there doing i think
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
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Woot now my timing pushes with terran will be 1 minute quicker :D
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United States7166 Posts
btw rather than taking 32 hits to kill a zealot from a zergling, it now takes 30 . the problem with zerglings vs zealots is more of zergling's slower attack speed. imo make their collision size larger like in bw but restore their attack speed.
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I was so excited to see patch 3 out until I read that terran is buffed and zerg gets nothing special. Again. At least zealots are worse I guess.
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Canada5565 Posts
30 seconds...that seems..a little ridiculous, but then again I don't have beta
nvm upon reading more it seems it just brought the research time down to the other races, which makes sense I suppose. If it's too much of a boost to terran they'll just change it again.
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Interesting changes.
Most problematic for me as toss at the moment:
- Marine / Marauder / MASS Medivac --> can outheal even Colossi
- Speedlings (or roach/ling FE) to mass Muta
I have no idea how to beat these even after watching the replays in detail.
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On March 05 2010 12:36 genwar wrote:
The zealot change was solely to make lings more viable vs them, 4 lings for 1 zeal was kind of too much >,>
Why? 4 lings are 100 min so is 1 zeal. I don't see problem with that
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Seriously where are all these terrible posters coming from? It's like SC2 brought a wave of whiny WoW players to these forums.
They fixed a mistake in upgrade time and made Zealots slightly more in line with Marines/Lings. Nothing to lose sleep over that's for sure.
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Bring back Terran Mech.
do-eeeeeet
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United States17042 Posts
On March 05 2010 17:02 ELESSAR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2010 12:36 genwar wrote:
The zealot change was solely to make lings more viable vs them, 4 lings for 1 zeal was kind of too much >,> Why? 4 lings are 100 min so is 1 zeal. I don't see problem with that
yes, but 2 larvae, so in earlygame it's important that the lings come out slightly on top. Should come down to positioning micro if you're going to be "truly" balanced.
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On March 05 2010 16:25 Disarray wrote:
Noticing a big problem since patch. With my Graphics options set to High my Roaches do not leave a porjectile trail for their ranged attack, but when the setting is on Medium, I do see it. anyone else notice this?
The patch created an issue with shaders on high I think. I'm having the same issues as well. It also affects the graphical display of chrono boost, warping in buildings, and other explosions such as siege tanks and nukes.
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You guys are actually complaining about this? 10 shield is nothing. If you think it makes PvZ harder than you haven't played the matchup properly. Zerglings are still nothing as long as you have sentries. Zealots don't hit mutas anyway so it doesn't make it any harder than it already was.
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On March 05 2010 14:48 Jenia6109 wrote:
What? And this is all what i was waiting for whole week? Changing of numbers? Is it beta? In WC3 patch we can see much more fixing though this game released long time ago...
Are you out of your mind : ) Warcraft III patches are a complete joke most of the time and we haven't had a decent patch for years. It's all anti-bnet-hacking-patches atm, and even that is screwed up. bnet is being flooded with hackers for 1 month already and no patch to fix it.
sorry for the offtopic.
I believe blizzard will try to fix everything that seems imbalanced. Unlike us, they have their numbers and are more objective on the matter, even though they aren't as knowledgeable as some of you guys. The more I read, the more I feel as this is just a rage because you want more wins with your race and are not being objective.
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Bwahahaha, terrible terrible damage to Protoss... wahaha delicious Protoss tears
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I already decided to stop beta till they fix stalkers. I was ranked 8th on platinum once and I seriously have never won a single game vs mass banshees or muta.
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Haha so many scrub Protoss QQ'ers. You're race is already the strongest/easiest to play, just look at the ladders.
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Hahahah it's so funny to read this thread and see all these people that write "why T has better upgrade times than others now?!?!?!?!?!?!?!" and "omg but zealot = 4 lings = 100 mins omgomgomg :|" even though arguments against both these issues were already shown further in the topic )
This patch seems pretty minor, but i love how Blizz updates so often
And if zealots will be now too weak (i doubt it) Blizz will revert it anyway... I kinda agree that stalkers would need buff though
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Can they fix the bug where u can't see how many point you lose/win when playing ppl from other divisons already
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What about the move command turning in attack command (very annoying when you try to scout). Was this fixed, or blizzard will leave it like that :O
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nvm. nerf the zerg please already;)
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OK, if we want to make Zealot more "equal" to the Marine/Zergling - then make Stalker stronger to be an equivalent of a Roach. I don't see the point of making something "be the same" with other race units. That's the beauty of StarCraft, Zealot rule in early game and Terran/Zerg must overcome ti to get to middle game where they have stronger arsenal then Protoss. That's all part of the game.
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
On March 05 2010 18:45 PredY wrote:
nvm. nerf the zerg please already;)
Ye
Do they even read forums feedback? All forums whinning about roaches. Where is roach nerf?
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At least this helps PvP a bit which has become a massive zeal/sentry vs zeal/sentry war. I find PvZ pretty hard and this is definitely not helping.
Also the next person to post a justification of a patch, modification or whatever by comparing a unit/building with it's counter-part at the other races, saying they should be equal, is going to receive a ban. That has no place in a serious discussion and is just mindless babbling with no base. SC isn't that simple.
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i was seriously disappointed after reading the patch notes : (
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On March 05 2010 19:16 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
At least this helps PvP a bit which has become a massive zeal/sentry vs zeal/sentry war. I find PvZ pretty hard and this is definitely not helping.
Also the next person to post a justification of a patch, modification or whatever by comparing a unit/building with it's counter-part at the other races, saying they should be equal, is going to receive a ban. That has no place in a serious discussion and is just mindless babbling with no base. SC isn't that simple.
Well, considering the main part of the patch was Blizzard equalizing upgrade times between the races, it's not surprising it spawns such discussions.
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On March 05 2010 19:16 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Also the next person to post a justification of a patch, modification or whatever by comparing a unit/building with it's counter-part at the other races, saying they should be equal, is going to receive a ban. That has no place in a serious discussion and is just mindless babbling with no base. SC isn't that simple.
Hang in there Nazgul, you were gifted with heroic rts abilities. Many others have not been.
In their minds, the only fair MUs are mirrors. And as a matter of fact the game of Chess isn't fair either because white always gets to go first.
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Protoss is really so strong that it needs all these nerfs? The majority of what I've seen on streams in P's losing to Z's. Not possessing a key, though, I suppose I can't complain. Especially since Terran is looking most like the race I want to play anyway.
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On March 05 2010 19:40 3clipse wrote:
Protoss is really so strong that it needs all these nerfs? The majority of what I've seen on streams in P's losing to Z's. Not possessing a key, though, I suppose I can't complain. Especially since Terran is looking most like the race I want to play anyway.
well early game p has a bit of an advantage, zerg cant expand before tech or they die to zeals various tech rushes are good if you catch them off guard, but if z gets into the mid game fine it becomes very hard for protoss cuz you dont really have a good all purpose backbone to your army like you did with goons in sc1. collosus are good damage dealers but corruptors rape them and if you get stalkers to deal with the corruptors... well then you made stalkers and if you make stalkers you instantly lose the game. temps are good but theyre support units, and zeals blow once theres a good mass of hydra roach around
so ya blizz is balancing the early game without accounting for how boned it leaves p in the mid game.
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its ok guys think about it when all your units get emp'ed you dont have shields anyway so thats -10 shield point isnt the end of the world
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On March 05 2010 12:40 Mirhi wrote:
Blizz just said 'F U' to every Protoss player. Why did Zealots get nerfed again?
It seems as a lot of players that already chosen a certain race gets upset when their race gets weaker and weaker, but I do not understand at all why they feel that way.
One thing that is certain is that Blizzard will balance the game completely. The problem on the other hand is how quickly it will die if they do not steer away from those hard counters that is the core of the game.
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Fuck yeah, zealots needed that nerf!
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Any patch buffing Terrans ia a good patch
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3 Patches in, it has become more obvious that Blizzard will not do anything about the real issues of the game, instead they're just tweaking some unit numbers.
Examples of the issues being the high-ground mechanic, latency and improving positional micro/play (better static defenses as well as units such as spider mines/lurkers).
Doomsayer I know, but i will stick to being pessimistic until proven otherwise.
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in Starcraft 1 I remember that they have UP terran in a lot of patches
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Ah geez, as if T Mball isnt as piss easy as it was.
Just a-move and win the game with 30 apm micro. Cheers.
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jesus christ, this is gonna help my playstyle so much
im really surprised they didnt nerf the colosuss or make archon better tho
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On March 05 2010 22:40 MorroW wrote:
jesus christ, this is gonna help my playstyle so much
You're still cheesing in SC2? :D
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
On March 05 2010 22:45 Senx wrote:
jesus christ, this is gonna help my playstyle so much
Jesus christ, nerfing roaches, mutas, nydus and ultras will help my playstyle so much
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It's funny to watch people freak out and say Terrans are unbeatable now because of a slight boost to upgrade time. Also, 10 energy on zealot. It's very slight.
Be patient everyone, if there is a problem, it will be addressed in time.
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On March 05 2010 22:57 Tdelamay wrote:
It's funny to watch people freak out and say Terrans are unbeatable now because of a slight boost to upgrade time. Also, 10 energy on zealot. It's very slight.
Be patient everyone, if there is a problem, it will be addressed in time.
But think of the damage it'll do to their win/loss records! Never mind that they are being erased at the end of beta anyway...
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This is the way Blizzard balances, in cycles. They hit one group with the nerf bat continually, bit by bit, and then once they've gotten them "weak" enough, they buff them back up again.
Protoss will see some love before the Beta is out, my friends; mark my words. Perhaps even the long-awaited Stalker buff...
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You are all thinking wrong.
They are testing things. If something is patched you all think its final... IT IS NOT FINAL!
Beta is testing balance out.....
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if anything they should either nerf mutas or strengthen psi storm... its ridiculous how hard late game is in pvz... you have no dps at all when roaches tank everything and mutas snipe everything you have...
psi storms suck, collosus are very vulnerable, and zealots/stalkers/sentries are a joke once there are a critical mass of mutas.
EDIT: i mined out 3 bases entirely (there is no depleted geysers anymore - u just cant mine gas there anymore as I realized) vs a 3 base zerg and his ball of units just dont die! =(
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10 shield on the zealots is actually really huge in the early game tvp where tosses mass zea+sentry bust allin. it shouldnt work very well now
and these 30 seconds on each terran armor dmg upgrade is pretty huge, u can get 3-3 1:30 faster, do u realize how much timing attacks by grades r gonna be now?
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Haha guys, so many flame over this patch..
The truth is, blizzard sux at balancing, look at wow, major fail, they need years to remotely fix things so i dont think there is anything to discuss until few years have passed, and blizzard fail to listen to community which was proven with wow, and their testers sux ass, proven with wow
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On March 06 2010 00:24 Samurai- wrote:Haha guys, so many flame over this patch.. The truth is, blizzard sux at balancing, look at wow, major fail, they need years to remotely fix things so i dont think there is anything to discuss until few years have passed, and blizzard fail to listen to community which was proven with wow, and their testers sux ass, proven with wow
wow doesnt matter.if we want to bring a example then its wc3 which never was remotly balanced and 89% cheese all the time.
at this point we can just hope that they get a lucky balance addon/patch off at one point which suddenly fixes almost evrything. like bw did for sc1.
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On March 06 2010 00:24 Samurai- wrote:Haha guys, so many flame over this patch.. The truth is, blizzard sux at balancing, look at wow, major fail, they need years to remotely fix things so i dont think there is anything to discuss until few years have passed, and blizzard fail to listen to community which was proven with wow, and their testers sux ass, proven with wow
blizzard is the only ones who know how to create 2 parties that are vs and not equal
look at like counterstrike, mostly same weapons, same hp speed and everything. not hard to balance
look at age of empires or any other RTS game, not esport because they r not even remotely balanced
blizzard r the only rts gamemakers who knows how to balance a game with totally different races, ofcourse it takes years to balance because the players and the maps evolve in a fashion that its impossible to tell in forehand which race is imba.
i think blizzard has done an amazing job releasing this beta and i cant tell directly which race is best, i can just say these units (talking about colosus baneling and banshee) seem a bit too good and a few ones seem too weak (ht bc stalker)
i do agree that they should listen to us TL'ers more since we r elite on this subject and that blizzard testers ofc r gonna suck more than the wc3 top gamers and sc top gamers who start with sc2 but i would never say they "sux at balancing"
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The only bad thing i can tell right now, specially after this patch is that stalkers need to be more useful, specially against air.
Please note Protoss can handle Air with sentries, I'm just saying that stalkers doesn't seem to be a very useful unit right now. How do you make the stalker more useful? you increase its damage. The problem is that Protoss ground army already is good against land, if you boost the stalker Protoss gets even stronger against ground, so what do you do?
You nerf another unit that is already strong, namelty the damn zealot.
Increase damage for stalker + nerf zealot = still good ground and can now counter air with ground.
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Boom goes the dynamite...
Blizzard=dum
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On March 06 2010 00:31 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2010 00:24 Samurai- wrote:Haha guys, so many flame over this patch.. The truth is, blizzard sux at balancing, look at wow, major fail, they need years to remotely fix things so i dont think there is anything to discuss until few years have passed, and blizzard fail to listen to community which was proven with wow, and their testers sux ass, proven with wow wow doesnt matter.if we want to bring a example then its wc3 which never was remotly balanced and 89% cheese all the time. at this point we can just hope that they get a lucky balance addon/patch off at one point which suddenly fixes almost evrything. like bw did for sc1.
can u pls stfu without knowledge thx
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most of you guys should not have a beta key, according to soo many simply retarded answers. this is beta and yet people are like crying allready about how they cant win, tards.
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All crying that its a huge Terran buff. Its ridiculous. Terran's first upgrade duration 190! SECONDS its more than 3 minutes for 1 upgrade, its not even worth upgrading-_-. So cut it out thats its a huge buff. Now its at least possible/worth upgrading...
But I disagree with the Protoss Zealot shield nerf.
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On March 06 2010 00:24 Samurai- wrote:Haha guys, so many flame over this patch.. The truth is, blizzard sux at balancing, look at wow, major fail, they need years to remotely fix things so i dont think there is anything to discuss until few years have passed, and blizzard fail to listen to community which was proven with wow, and their testers sux ass, proven with wow
Newsflash! WoW and SC2 teams have nothing to with eachother!
Besides that the WoW team has a million other things to worry about and balance has never been their TOP priority, right now SC2 team however seems to be very serious about getting the game as balanced as possible and top players like Artosis have commented already that the beta is surprisingly balanced.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 06 2010 00:24 Samurai- wrote:Haha guys, so many flame over this patch.. The truth is, blizzard sux at balancing, look at wow, major fail, they need years to remotely fix things so i dont think there is anything to discuss until few years have passed, and blizzard fail to listen to community which was proven with wow, and their testers sux ass, proven with wow
WoW is by nature impossible to balance, and is a poor example to use given:
1) Constant infusion of new content -- virtually every patch adds new variables to be balanced. It's impossible to make sure every class stays balanced when new a new raid boss or PvP rewards gets added every month.
2) Disparate needs of PvP and PvE -- it's almost impossible to have both balanced at the same time, because the same aspects of the game have differing effects in raids, smaller dungeons, world PvP, 2v2s, 3v3s, and 5v5s.
Based on that, you can't really blame Blizzard for WoW's poor balance, seeing as I don't think anyone would be capable of balancing a game that's designed and runs that way (in fact, you could argue that any game driven by constant new content, such as DotA, is impossible to balance--certainly I have yet to see an example of one that is). Neither of these factors are also relevant to SC2, as, once the game reaches final release, the units, buildings, and upgrades should be set in stone, and single-player content needs no balance.
It's funny how people keep saying Blizzard doesn't know how to balance a game and using an example of a game that, by nature, is literally impossible to balance. And they actually do a pretty good job with what they are capable of doing.
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wheres the zerg buffs =[
zvt gets even harder now. they should make banelings' dmg higher and build speed lower
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They should just combine stalkers/sentries then we will do ok against air. The zealot nerf does hurt a little, but I've still won with zealots.
I agree the terran "buff" needed to be made, but it was needed much less then protoss aa is needed...
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EPT
