It's over Anakin! - Page 16

You couldn't show me a situation where 20 goons shoot 3 volleys to kill 1 tank.

On March 05 2010 11:42 Lysdexia wrote:
Instead of a chance to miss they should reduce the damage units do when attacking units on higher elevation. Like instead of having a 70% chance to hit you would just do 70% damage with 100% accuracy.

On March 04 2010 20:14 qoou wrote:


Or simply a % dmg reduction for the low ground units.

On March 04 2010 20:17 Gliche wrote:
Imo it should not be random. It should be a set percentage of damage reduction, like most ranged units have a 30% damage decrease when firing from low to high ground, with exceptions like the colossus and siege tank and something for zerg (lurkers if they were in the game).

The same idea could possibly be applied with a smaller reduction to those line of sight "bushes" too but I think gameplay-wise they shouldn't. Firing with ranged units behind those bushes should be strategic enough by itself.

On March 04 2010 20:22 ejac wrote:
While I know this is lame, I've always thought a good compromise would be to remove the miss chance, and just have a % damage reduction. That way there is no randomness, and gives high ground an advantage.

I don't really have a problem with a miss chance for it is fairly predictably random. In wc3 (not a wc3 hater, this is just the way it is) items are not predictably random, and do favor one side which is not a good thing.

High ground was definitely too strong in sc1. High ground does seems stronger than I thought it would be in sc2, but perhaps it should be a little better. Just basing this on streams.

On March 04 2010 20:22 Go0g3n wrote:
I'm not sure if misses exist in StarCraft II altogether, probably not, as shots follow targets literally to the other side of the map like they do in WarCraft III with teleport, you can test this, - get a goon to shot at a zerg unit entering Nydus, come out on the other side and bam )))

What they could do, however is just decrease damage to 75% on every 2nd shot up the ground.

As for randomness there shouldn't be such thins as scarab glitch, worker glitch or anything like that. If you're working BOs to the point of a single second the success should only depend on the maths of skill vs. skill and BO vs. BO, not poor mechanics design.

On March 04 2010 20:26 ven wrote:
I dislike the randomness too. It's alright if you have a lot of units or just rapid attack speed because the hits and misses even out fairly quickly and in essence become a damage reduction but with fewer units it can even decide games which just shouldn't be possible.

As someone else already suggested, just put in some disadvantage for units fighting uphill (whether it be nerfing attack damage or attack speed or even reducing their range) and we get both high ground advantage and get rid of the randomness.

On March 04 2010 20:53 Radiomouse wrote:
Maybe they can reduce damage done when shooting up a cliff (this way you can have cliff advantage and you don't introduce randomness.).

On March 04 2010 20:54 stenole wrote:
I think I like a damage reduction option better than a miss chance. Either a set damage reduction or a percentage. It not only gives a more predictable outcome but it also becomes an incentive to choose armour upgrades. It seems to me choosing attack upgrades are the default right now. Props to incontrol for bringing it up, although I feel the video does not really illustrate the point he tries to make.

On March 04 2010 22:01 papaz wrote:
First I thought "this just sounds stupid" but then I realized it would be fun to add a positional dimension to the game like this.

In this way like your example someone being down in army size still could have a chance to counter the stronger army by positioning.

But it shouln't be some random thing. It should be a straight forward dmg % reduction.

Good suggestion.

On March 04 2010 22:06 Error Ash wrote:
No randomnes for Starcraft 2 please. This is one reason why the removal of reavers was a good thing (i like the unit overall, but scarabs going off or not being almost totally random just SUCKED). On the other hand i think there should be more high ground advantage than there is now. But please no random miss stuff, make it 20% less damage all the time or something, otherwise its just gambling...

On March 04 2010 22:11 iG.Zeep wrote:
% dmg reduction plz

On March 04 2010 22:27 Senx wrote:
Simply implement a dmg reduction percentage for units fighting "uphill" .. theres not even anything random about it, but it awards positional advantage.

On March 04 2010 23:06 mawno wrote:
Random miss chance is horrible. Keep it the way it is or have a static damage reduction.

On March 05 2010 00:18 da_head wrote:
i really think it should be a set damage reduction. the whole randomness reduction really pissed me off, but with a set percentage reduction, a strategical advantage is still gained from having the high ground

On March 05 2010 00:27 LightRailCoyote wrote:
I think that if a unit fires from the low ground, That a 25 percent damage reduction should be applied. It seems to just make sense for me, especially because I always imagined in a true Starcraft battle, that there would be far more than 200 supply of units per side. Masses of tanks and bunkers, huge sprawling bases, 200/200 of carriers supported by arbiters, hundreds of mutalisks. Thus if some of the shots "Miss" from low to high ground, then the overall damage output is reduced. Of course, that requires a huge stretch of imagination from some, so i also think that it would make gameplay better, due to the fact that the SC:BW miss chance was doing the same thing, just implemented in a way that, by definition creates more variance.

Secondly, I liked how in Brood War, if a unit fired at you from the high ground, you could see it momentarily through the fog of war. Of course, you'd miss a good part of the time, but it makes sense that a unit in a futuristic world would be able to gauge angle and return fire. Terran and Protoss are full of computers and Zerg were basically bred for war. I think that this should be in the new game as well. It just kind of makes sense.

Alternatively, Ewan McGregor should come and cut their legs off and dump them into lava. The advantage of high ground.

On March 05 2010 00:42 Zack1900 wrote:
I think the perfect solution would be to give a damage reduction to the person on the high ground. High ground should be a BIG deal in my opinion. My idea would add to the effectiveness of ramps in the late game since by then you almost always have a way to get vision (any air unit, colossus, scan).It would also not add randomness to the game. (oh crap they are on higher ground than me I will only do X damage instead of the normal Y.

Does anyone have thoughts on this idea?

On March 05 2010 01:23 aRod wrote:
Agreed, shooting up a cliff should reduce the chance of doing full damage.

On March 05 2010 01:37 Dr.Frost wrote:
I don't this k its should be random like in sc1 but I do think it should be more similar. It should be if you are fighting up hill all damage is reduced by 10% (or maybe in sc2 terms fighting up hill, units on top all have +1 or +2 armor). J think this would be a fine change that takes out 'chance' but adds a similar mechanic as sc1.

On March 05 2010 02:55 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Taking out randomness is fine with me. Why can't they make things do 70% damage uphill instead of hitting 70% of the time?

On March 05 2010 03:16 Undisputed- wrote:
In WoW pvp they took steps have RNG take less effect. I think that's what they were going for. Maybe instead of making shots miss uphill they should just reduce damage by the % of what the miss should be. Say if miss rate was 50% shooting uphill, instead of shots missing just reduce damage by 50%.

On March 05 2010 03:43 KungKras wrote:
Damage reduction is the obvious choice. It gives a positional advantage without randomness.

I have no idea how blizzard could come up with the system that they have now and think it's better than just having damage reduction.

On March 05 2010 04:39 prOxi.Beater wrote:
Taking the random factor out of the game is great, however I also agree that increasing the effeciency of units that are positioned at a high ground gives the game a lot of FUN depth. My solution would be that instead of low ground units hitting 70% of their shots they would simply do 70% damage. Problem solved.

On March 05 2010 04:56 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I don't know if this has already been suggested, but perhaps rather than a 30% Miss chance (RNG, random, aka people hate)

Have any unit on lower ground attacking a unit on higher ground just do something like 20% less damage? (the exact percent is up for grabs. point is, units do less damage to high-ground units)

I am pretty sure this solves the problem of both RNG, and lack of high ground's strategic importance.

Just throwing spitballs.

tl;dr: Units on high ground take less damage when attacked by units on low ground.

On March 05 2010 05:30 starcraft911 wrote:
I totally agree that being on a cliff should give you a significant advantage, however, I also believe that RANDOM = BAD.

Best option in my mind is to make units shooting upward only do 75% dmg or something along those lines. This way pros can calculate in their head the risk vs reward rather than getting shit on because their goons missed 6 shots in a row on a one in a million shit storm of bad luck.

On March 05 2010 11:21 RisingTide wrote:
Rather than trying to implement a chance based system, why not simply have it so that a unit on the high ground has +X armor factored into any damage calculations? The number can be tweaked for balance of course, but this gives a very predictable advantage to having the high ground.

On March 05 2010 11:42 Lysdexia wrote:
Instead of a chance to miss they should reduce the damage units do when attacking units on higher elevation. Like instead of having a 70% chance to hit you would just do 70% damage with 100% accuracy.

On March 05 2010 00:06 Teejing wrote:
just make every 2nd shot a miss and we are good to go

On March 05 2010 10:54 Teejing wrote:
1 miss every 2nd shot and done,

On March 04 2010 19:55 StormsInJuly wrote:
Randomness has no place in starcraft, never has and never will. This change is a big improvement over the original in my opinion, and gives you more options as a defender if you can take out the units giving your opponent vision uphill

On March 05 2010 10:44 Chuiu wrote:


Aiming upwards is a good deal harder than aiming downwards, this is just one reason why height has always been an advantage. But this is what it sounds like you're describing:

..snip..

Now you can clearly see how it would make it a great deal harder to hit someone who is on higher ground. This is how I've always pictured high ground in SC at least, I'm sure many people agree with me that a 40% miss rate is justified due to high ground always being an advantage.

+ Show Spoiler [tldr] +

On March 05 2010 14:22 Vedic wrote:


You can't try to argue logic with real-life situations, or you'll have to argue that all units should miss merely based on range, or giving these bonuses to air units, or that units should have ammo/reload, etc..

The current implementation works best within the system. Why not argue for more creative map elements, instead of just trying to make SC2 into SCBW as hard as you can.