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Guys we know the server went down. i just re open my client and i saw the new patch:
StarCraft II Beta Patch 2 (version 0.4.0.14133)
The latest patch notes can always be found on the StarCraft II Beta General Discussion forum.
Balance Changes
Terran
Banshee
Cloak: This ability no longer requires Fusion Core to research.
Barracks
The build time for this building has decreased from 65 to 60.
Factory
The build time for this building has decreased from 65 to 60.
Reactor
The build time for this building has decreased from 40 to 25.
Reaper
The build time for this unit has increased from 30 to 40.
Nitro Boost: The build time for this upgrade has increased from 90 to 100.
Starport
The build time for this building has decreased from 55 to 50.
Tech Lab
The build time for this building has decreased from 30 to 25.
Protoss
Mothership
The build time for this unit has increased from 120 to 160.
The food cost of this unit has increased from 6 to 8.
The number of shots fired by this unit has decreased from 8 to 6.
The shield of this unit has decreased from 400 to 350.
The health of this unit has decreased from 400 to 350.
The acceleration of this unit has decreased from 1.3125 to 0.3125.
The deceleration of this unit has increased from 0 to 1.
Nexus
Chrono Boost: The duration of this ability has decreased from 30 to 20.
Zerg
Corruptor
The damage done by this unit has increased from 12 (+8 massive) to 12 (+10 massive).
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As a terran player I approve of this message.
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Ouch on Chrono Boost... just ouch
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Chrono boost 
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Yey for me, I'm a terran, faster tech is always welcome :D
Poor toss fellas, that chrono boost nerf is a big hit on the face.
Zergs? meh!
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What are they smoking? Nerfing chrono boost but leaving spawn larva alone? -_-
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I really wish I had this patch when I was playing my first 80 games as Terran lol
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I'll be picking up terran for a bit until they make Protoss playable again.
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-5 secs on barracks, -15 on reactor :O
marine rush on the way!
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On February 27 2010 10:22 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I'll be picking up terran for a bit until they make Protoss playable again.
Same
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Wow it seems like protoss got fucked in the ass LOL
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Can someone please upload the patch on a mirror somewhere so those of us that can't use the downloader can patch? 
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yey even more ez win vs p ^^
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>.< i don't see the need to be nerfing protoss constantly when I think the general consensus is that zerg are the most powerful overall with the above mentioned spawn larvae and how ridiculously easy it is to switch tech.
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Two patches in a week, I hope this level of involvement on Blizzard's part continues throughout the beta.
Also goodbye Reapers, you were fun to use while you were useful.
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On February 27 2010 10:22 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I'll be picking up terran for a bit until they make Protoss playable again.
lol way to overreact, you wont fare any better with terran when uve practiced P for a week just because of those changes...
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lol wow protoss mothership got a huge nerf :O. Wonder why 2 patches in 2 days? weird.
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Hell yeah, I was just starting to play Terran too. This will make me want to continue, hahaha.
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They should reduce lingspeed so you can actualy get away with your zealots or are able to scout.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Wow. That mothership nerf might actually be too much? And I play terran. I feel sorry for toss users tho, PvZ is already hard and now chrono boost gets nerfed after your gates got nerfed? Fun fun.
I'm still not gonna open fucking banshee TvP. Fuck banshees. Real men slug it out on the ground TvP - no wimpy carriers or starport openings.
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Awesome terran patch?
what are they thinking hehe? 
They just trashed the mothership as well. Interesting. fast cloak banshee is an interesting mechanic as well. I'm quite excited about all this
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Chrono boost was dumb, you couldn't even compete in a macro war as terran, it's bad enough zerg and protoss both get to saturate their expos in half the time as terran. Now all they gotta do is raise the cost of roachs and find a way to nerf larva and I won't want to stab myself everytime I lose to an unrelenting wall of hitpoints just holding off until zergs expo wins.
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Ouch mothership gets raped. As does CB. I hope they eventually drop the mothership entirely and boost other protoss air units (mainly the phoenix). It's nice to see a bit of a nerf to reapers as well in addition to general terran buffs.
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On February 27 2010 10:29 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Wow. That mothership nerf might actually be too much? And I play terran. I feel sorry for toss users tho, PvZ is already hard and now chrono boost gets nerfed after your gates got nerfed? Fun fun.
Yeah - you know, the mothership nerfs don't really bother me, but I don't really think it was necessary to increase gate build time and nerf chrono? Especially for PvZ.
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Wow. Terran has such ridiculous rush power now I'm going to vomit
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On February 27 2010 10:22 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I'll be picking up terran for a bit until they make Protoss playable again.
To hell with Terran, i'm going on a 50+ zerg winstreak and not looking back!
Edit: If Blizz nerfed Chrono Boost, revert Gateway buildtime omg.. Q_Q
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Protoss are just being nerf hammered to oblivion
lame, i honestly see most toss players being pissed about this. No point to mothership
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yeah, chrono boost nerf seems pretty drastic.
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Reaper build time increase? That makes it a lot harder to pull off fast reapers, which is what I've been trying to work on. This in all delays my current build by over half a minute.
Barracks build time decrease though... although I don't have all day to play SC2 and test out all my thoughts, I was thinking about how to pull off a very early 2 rax / 2 techlab to do fast reapers. Since this lets me get the orbital command quicker and I could get up the 2nd rax quicker... this might be viable.
Could then lift the 2nd rax, make a reactor, and build a factory on the orphaned techlab to get tanks... just thinking aloud here, don't mind me...
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They made the mothership weaker, but the last two entries seem to indicate that it is faster. Not sure how much speed the numbers translate to, but maybe recall is more viable now?
Edit: Ah, apparently not. =/
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no mothership is much much much slower
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As a terran player, I hugely approve of this patch. That said, I don't really understand the point in nerfing the mothership so heavily, and chrono boost too for that matter. And they still haven't really done anything about their lack of anti-air issue.
Two patches in two days is quite awesome coming from blizzard, though.
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no fucking zerg changes... they are the worst race just now and they don't do nothing at all
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On February 27 2010 10:26 Lyter wrote:
>.< i don't see the need to be nerfing protoss constantly when I think the general consensus is that zerg are the most powerful overall with the above mentioned spawn larvae and how ridiculously easy it is to switch tech.
How is it the general consensus that zerg were the most powerful? Especially when most of the top players happen to play protoss..
Zerg is probably the consensus most powerful race now though ;p
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United States4991 Posts
Jeez, that's a pretty harsh nerf on the Mothership 
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Terran buffs were needed but the rest of the patch is just silly, but at least it gives me time to start trying out the other races.
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shorter build times for rax and addons end up making the first reaper pop at the same time but subsequent reapers are slower. sounds like a good fix. reactor addon definitely needed shortening many times it's not worth it to cut rax production to get the addon with mules you get enough minerals to add raxes anyway. now those extra minerals can be put towards more marines :D
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Mothership I don't really care about, but that chrono boost nerf? That seems wayyy to drastic.
I know Ps have been dominating and Ts have not. I am very curious to see how this patch changes the leader boards.
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Hooray another nerf to P. I say keep them coming!
Wish more was done to Z though
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Do any of you terrans ever use Hellions?
Imo, put Vulture back into the game with Spider Mines. Spider Mines made for some of the most exciting/skill oriented play ever.
Change the damn Roach. No one likes it! Imo, they need to do this:
Roach movement speed increase to ling speed
Roach HP decrease to 70
Reduce damage slightly but make it AOE (like the under-used Hellion)
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The mothership was the only thing I knew needed a serious nerf. You could get a Mothership the same time the other player got a Collosus in their base. 40 seconds is just enough to deal a little damage before the mothership comes out. And nerfing its damage means stalkers and sentries may be able to fend it off.
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Yay, moar power to Terran! >:D
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How are you supposed to recall with 100 less hp and much slower speed?
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Am i the only one who thinks, even though the game is fairly balanced but atm if anyone was imbalanced, it would be Terran? Everyone cries about Zerg, but honestly, roaches haven't been that much trouble for me, only when I don't build the proper counter =/ and idk, mutas aren't trouble because I know how to pressure =/
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The chronoboost changes will result in less stupid 3gate mass zeal PvPs which is always good.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On February 27 2010 10:38 TSL-Lore wrote:
Do any of you terrans ever use Hellions?
Imo, put Vulture back into the game with Spider Mines. Spider Mines made for some of the most exciting/skill oriented play ever.
Change the damn Roach. No one likes it! Imo, they need to do this:
Roach movement speed increase to ling speed
Roach HP decrease to 70
Reduce damage slightly but make it AOE (like the under-used Hellion)
I use hellions, but I think they need an additional ability because right now they are basically vultures without mines. They kill zealots/lings, they harass and scout.
I like roaches Roaches and banelings, cool new units. Just need the infestor to be cool as well...
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On February 27 2010 10:40 Rickilicious wrote:
Am i the only one who thinks, even though the game is fairly balanced but atm if anyone was imbalanced, it would be Terran? Everyone cries about Zerg, but honestly, roaches haven't been that much trouble for me, only when I don't build the proper counter =/ and idk, mutas aren't trouble because I know how to pressure =/
These boosts make bio even more viable, don't expect to see mech ever.
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On February 27 2010 10:30 getSome[703] wrote:
Ouch mothership gets raped. As does CB. I hope they eventually drop the mothership entirely and boost other protoss air units (mainly the phoenix).
I agree, phoenix does need a boost. Either raise its damage +2 or +4 vs light, or reduce its build time. unless your first tech building is stargate, you can't build enough phoenixes to counter muta.
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On February 27 2010 10:42 HazMat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 10:40 Rickilicious wrote:
Am i the only one who thinks, even though the game is fairly balanced but atm if anyone was imbalanced, it would be Terran? Everyone cries about Zerg, but honestly, roaches haven't been that much trouble for me, only when I don't build the proper counter =/ and idk, mutas aren't trouble because I know how to pressure =/ These boosts make bio even more viable, don't expect to see mech ever.
?? there wasn't a single bio specific buff in the patch
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Oww, With all the nerf bat at the ready on protoss I think I'm going to try and learn how to play T Going to probably take a huge ELO hit xD.
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Shorter Rax time along with MUCH shorter Reactor time means a TON of Marine spam can be used early game.
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Rax and reactor build faster, ie you can make more bio units quicker.
Odd patch. I'd rather raven's missile was non-fusion-core. The reaper edits make me sad, they're basically unuseable now except as scouts, imo.
Not sure why z isn't being touched, feel bad for p =/
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On February 27 2010 10:44 mahnini wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 10:42 HazMat wrote:On February 27 2010 10:40 Rickilicious wrote:
Am i the only one who thinks, even though the game is fairly balanced but atm if anyone was imbalanced, it would be Terran? Everyone cries about Zerg, but honestly, roaches haven't been that much trouble for me, only when I don't build the proper counter =/ and idk, mutas aren't trouble because I know how to pressure =/ These boosts make bio even more viable, don't expect to see mech ever. ?? there wasn't a single bio specific buff in the patch
yeah because rax and reactors have NOTHING to do with bio
i was playing random but i guess im gonna switch to terran/zerg now
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On February 27 2010 10:44 mahnini wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 10:42 HazMat wrote:On February 27 2010 10:40 Rickilicious wrote:
Am i the only one who thinks, even though the game is fairly balanced but atm if anyone was imbalanced, it would be Terran? Everyone cries about Zerg, but honestly, roaches haven't been that much trouble for me, only when I don't build the proper counter =/ and idk, mutas aren't trouble because I know how to pressure =/ These boosts make bio even more viable, don't expect to see mech ever. ?? there wasn't a single bio specific buff in the patch
Troll? Sorry man but I think it's pretty straight forward that shorter barracks times and tech labs make bio much stronger.
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lmao @ whiners wanting to switch races. grow up plz
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I'm not too happy with the Chrono Boost nerf considering how well the other races' macro mechanics work well, IE mules, insane amount of larvae production.
Also, the mothership is hella slower now.
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so what are they doing with mothership exactly? they don't want 1 unit that is too strong? i thought that was the point of it? and it has arbitors near exact spells. why not just bring them back?
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factories also use addons and they were also shorten in build time. if anything it means we'll be seeing more mech because honestly how much were we seeing before anyway?
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terran needed that shit so bad, especially the reactor time and the fusion core cloak
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On February 27 2010 10:49 StarsPride wrote:
lmao @ whiners wanting to switch races. grow up plz
yeah, cuz growing up = loving to lose? fuck off
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I've actually been having pretty good success with mech units. Hellions are more fragile but they're cheap and easy to mass. I use them a lot in TvZ. Thors and tanks have also proven to be pretty effective in TvT for me.
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I think they should change up zerg more just cuz.
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that was fast. what made them do 2 patches in a roll like that?
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who would have thought SCers going the whiney cnc style route of switching races with every patch. I am disappointed in some of you
lmao
anyways, pretty disappointed the mothership is still in the game, as i'm getting really pissed off reading the discussion forums of "what to do vs the MOTEHRSHIP," how to "play vs the mothership," so and so VS THE GODDAMN MOTHERSHIP. The mothership is not a goddamn strategy, it's a SINGLE EPIC UNIT that got put into Starcraft.
it's sad there are forum discussions on how to neutralize one single hero unit.
the other changes I think are OK. Terran needed some buffs possibly, it evens em up with Zerg production more, but the chrono boost change...combined with gateway change...not too sure how that will pan out, but protoss still have warpgates with faster production so it should be fine.
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On February 27 2010 10:54 TheAntZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 10:49 StarsPride wrote:
lmao @ whiners wanting to switch races. grow up plz yeah, cuz growing up = loving to lose? fuck off
LOL. the patch just came out and you haven't even tried to adjust yet and you're already complaining. the chrono boost nerf might be a little too much but it's really obnoxious to just come into a patch thread and say "oh forget it im switching races now" because hey maybe your current rank is actually inflated due to imbalance?
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Patch 3: All Protoss structures have build time increase, as well as upgrades. All units take damage reduction
YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST
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On February 27 2010 10:56 mahnini wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 10:54 TheAntZ wrote:On February 27 2010 10:49 StarsPride wrote:
lmao @ whiners wanting to switch races. grow up plz yeah, cuz growing up = loving to lose? fuck off LOL. the patch just came out and you haven't even tried to adjust yet and you're already complaining. the chrono boost nerf might be a little too much but it's really obnoxious to just come into a patch thread and say "oh forget it im switching races now" because hey maybe your current rank is actually inflated due to imbalance?
im not switching races, more like, i used to play 3, now i play 2. So i doubt my rank was inflated due to it.
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United States1865 Posts
top players are 90% protoss its worthwile to at least try a chrono boost nerf in the beta
so lets calm down please
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Hopefully this doesn't mess with watching replays offline again
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On February 27 2010 10:20 Makica wrote:
As a terran player I approve of this message.
Same. I don't use reapers anyway, I really don't think they are/were that good in the first place.
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I didnt really use reapers much either because I found it could put you behind a bit if the enemy managed to defend well, hopefully a faster marine rush against toss is more effective now due to the reactor boost
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I think it's a good idea to put tension on protoss players. Having a harder game forces the player to think creatively.
Terrans also need to use more of their tools. Raven's hunter seeker missiles will play a similar role to spider mines, so I hope they start using it.
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On February 27 2010 10:59 Atrioc wrote:
top players are 90% protoss its worthwile to at least try a chrono boost nerf in the beta
so lets calm down please
What? No they aren't, nowhere near.
We're currently seeing a Protoss/Zerg dominance, with a few terrans scattered within the top.
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Archer had a good point when he mentioned that Protoss can produce was too many units too quickly. If the chrono boost nurf is too big an impact on their army I hope they increase unit stats instead of giving back production speed for diversity.
Edit: Btw mothership is not slower now. It has slower acceleration and stops faster but has the same top speed. Guess that encourages you to keep it moving instead of letting it sit there cloaking.
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On February 27 2010 10:59 Atrioc wrote:
top players are 90% protoss its worthwile to at least try a chrono boost nerf in the beta
so lets calm down please
Well 90% of players are protoss this could be correlation not causation. quick need to run an expirment! :D
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On February 27 2010 10:27 NeoValkyrion wrote:
Two patches in a week, I hope this level of involvement on Blizzard's part continues throughout the beta.
Also goodbye Reapers, you were fun to use while you were useful.
Build time of reapers increased... who cares it is off set by the decreased build time of the barracks. How are they not useful now?
It looks like Blizzard really wanted the mother ship as a defense u it. The slower speed and addition of recall kind of shows. I think this is a good idea.
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On February 27 2010 11:04 TheAntZ wrote:
I didnt really use reapers much either because I found it could put you behind a bit if the enemy managed to defend well, hopefully a faster marine rush against toss is more effective now due to the reactor boost
I actually have REALLY good success with 3-4 raxxing against Protoss early game, even before this patch. I can't imagine how strong it will be now.
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On February 27 2010 10:54 TheAntZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 10:49 StarsPride wrote:
lmao @ whiners wanting to switch races. grow up plz yeah, cuz growing up = loving to lose? fuck off
Growing up is not acting like a whiny 2 year old rage quitting the game after every loss, haha frankly i never understood rage quitting outta like a tournament where money is on the line.
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Can someone pleeeaaaaaaaase upload the patch somewhere? I can't patch and get my SC2 fix until someone does... and I'm sure there are others needing the same thing.
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On February 27 2010 11:10 Virtue wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 10:54 TheAntZ wrote:On February 27 2010 10:49 StarsPride wrote:
lmao @ whiners wanting to switch races. grow up plz yeah, cuz growing up = loving to lose? fuck off Growing up is not acting like a whiny 2 year old rage quitting the game after every loss, haha frankly i never understood rage quitting outta like a tournament where money is on the line.
You seem to not have much reading comprehension, never said I'm angry about the protoss nerf, nor that I rage quit games, nor that I even play protoss exclusively
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call him a raging whiner, makes you the immature one. stop fighting and play
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Good terran players are completely dominating zergs atm. This just made things worse.
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On February 27 2010 10:22 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I'll be picking up terran for a bit until they make Protoss playable again.
Worded like a hero. PvZ was pretty ridiculous as-is and they nerf Protoss in every respect. =(
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On February 27 2010 11:12 ploy wrote:Can someone pleeeaaaaaaaase upload the patch somewhere? I can't patch and get my SC2 fix until someone does... and I'm sure there are others needing the same thing. Seconded. I'm not at home now so I can't check if they fixed it, but downloading the patch with the Blizzard downloader yesterday wasn't working at all... I imagine the problem will continue tonight, unless someone uploads the patch somewhere :D
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I really do not see the point of switching races because of some changes, which yes, to some might feel a little absurd, but then again this is beta. I am sure blizzard wants to see how protoss fairs now with these changes and by switching races you do them no good. Remember this is beta and the game as a whole being better is better than a specific race which many of you, seem inclined to one race and thus disapprove of such changes. I mean test out the race still and keep playing so that you can comment on said changes and make the game better as a whole, don't just be like "I am going terran now..," like that is absurd, just so you can win or advance in your division your willing to jeopardize the game (of course it really won't but might if every protoss switches races XD). Just saying you should all calm down (the ones overreacting) and play the game and then we'll see what happens from there.
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I'm also surprised by this patch, and i play terran. 3 rax push vs Zerg fe felt easy to pull off. TvP was kinda hard but with proper positioning/micro no problem.
But im just not at the level of the pros where the imbalances really show, and the statistic of dominating P/Z shows that terran was too weak.so hopefully this will change now .
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On February 27 2010 11:27 Maniac- wrote:I'm also surprised by this patch, and i play terran. 3 rax push vs Zerg fe felt easy to pull off. TvP was kinda hard but with proper positioning/micro no problem. But im just not at the level of the pros where the imbalances really show, and the statistic of dominating P/Z shows that terran was too weak.so hopefully this will change now .
I think 3 rax push need very good timing and has tendency to fail on good zerg with fast mut harass and mess banelings.....
yes, a zerg that fail at scout will suffer the most.
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They are probably just testing things around, like we are. For instance, if they buff Terrans and nerf Protoss, and the game stats change (more Terrans winning now against Protoss), they can change it so that Protoss get buffed a little, and Terran gets nerfed a little, until they find the perfect balance.
After that, they can simply change Zerg accordingly to match up evenly with Protoss and Terran. Imagine now that after Protoss and Terran are about even, Zerg is 70% loss against Terran and 60% loss against Protoss. Now they can simply buff some more the units that are played the most against Terran, and buff a little bit those that are used against Protoss.
At least that's what I imagine they're doing. These guys know more about game mechanics than we could ever imagine. And they know how to fine-tune stuff.
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I can tell you with 100% certainty that Blizz' balance team will change shit a zillion times around and every time they will look at top player replays (Idra/Nony/Ret, koreans, etc.) and see what happens in the game and if any unit is dominating way too much for its cost, they will nerf it.
That's kind of the point of the beta and any amount of butthurt over this (of which there's lots in this thread) is really unjustified.
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NOOOOOOOO CHRONO BOOST!!!
AND NOW MOTHERSHIP IS DEAD..
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REALLY surprised they basically made the mothership the slowest unit in any rts game. It has to be as fast as a terran building flying in SC1. Yay zerg buffs ^^
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Im still concern why the don't buff protoss AA, ether phoenix or maybe put a new attack who can attack air with splash or more domage than his ground to ground attack
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On February 27 2010 11:41 genwar wrote:
REALLY surprised they basically made the mothership the slowest unit in any rts game. It has to be as fast as a terran building flying in SC1. Yay zerg buffs ^^
Unless they use very weird conventions, acceleration is entirely independent of max speed. They just get going slower (i.e. longer time to reach top speed).
edit: quoted wrong post, lol
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Nice buff for terran lol. Imo the chrono boost nerf to 20 sec is suitable though for its 25 energy.
YAY first post A_A
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I'm not really surprised with this patch...
...and delicious protoss tears
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Sanya12364 Posts
Maybe they're trying to get all the newbs to stop playing protoss? Just a problem of too many protoss players so they're pushing them to explore other races?
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On February 27 2010 11:13 TheAntZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 11:10 Virtue wrote:On February 27 2010 10:54 TheAntZ wrote:On February 27 2010 10:49 StarsPride wrote:
lmao @ whiners wanting to switch races. grow up plz yeah, cuz growing up = loving to lose? fuck off Growing up is not acting like a whiny 2 year old rage quitting the game after every loss, haha frankly i never understood rage quitting outta like a tournament where money is on the line. You seem to not have much reading comprehension, never said I'm angry about the protoss nerf, nor that I rage quit games, nor that I even play protoss exclusively
Haha and yet you insult me you seem very much the angry type.
"yeah, cuz growing up = loving to lose? fuck off"
lol seriously i'm suppose to believe that you're not an angry person, you insult me and insult everyone you're just full of angry imo, but oh wait i r not good at reading comprehension i must be inferring the wrong things from fuck off and you must not have much reading comprehension.
This was a generalization to peoples characters when they loose games it was never directed at you although now i do think it fits you just fine mr omg everything is a personal attack on me so i must insult the people on the Internet.
=p
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I don't get the race switching stuff either. This isn't the final build of the game and its not like everyone has spent months and months perfecting strategies around the current build. This is the beta. Who cares about winning or losing, just try different shit and see what happens.
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Just stop it. As if protoss isn't doing well enough already.
If response can own with protoss, then it is possible. Maybe try build smth else then dual gate zealot spam once? 10s on nexus is hardly -that- game breaking.
I think we should all be happy for terran buff so we get to see more terran match ups. I do feel protoss is pretty well balanced race, most of their units frequently gets used. Terran on the other hand some units are barely used and could use an incentive for ppl to start use them (however buffing bio seems a bit weird). I'm way more concerned about infestor, siege tank and units that do not get used so often. Protoss most played race and high ranked Im not concerned about a slight nerf. Protoss can beat both T and Z and high ranked matches seem to go both ways in those match ups. Z hardly dominating, calling for queen nerf is ridiculous. Skill of player and tactical choices seem to play the most deciding factor who wins. So the game isnt awfully unbalanced so much that it is the major deciding factor of a match, if you loose its probably because the other player simply is better (oh no can this be!). If the balance is in favor of a faction, its in favor of both zerg and protoss.
Sure Zerg can switch tech like that. Protoss on the other hand has (imo) harder counters then zerg (immortal, colossus, HT, ray) and better casters and special abilities then zerg have. Better turrets and better building (doesnt have to sacrifice or occupy a worker), not as vulnerable supply (phoenix pew pew overlords) and doesn't have to occupy army making with supply or worker making. Harassing a zerg players workers is simply not a monetary loss for him but also a lot of larvae that could become units lost to making workers. So having larvae to instantly morph into x nr of units has its pros and cons.
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Amazing patch, gotta lol at the further Mothership nerfs, it's the slowest piece of crap ever now! Probably never going to see one anymore unless they buff it again.
Only thing I don't understand is the further reaper nerf.. they are simply unusable now?
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As a terran, I can safely say the reactor lab build time decrease way too much. The banshee change was nice because it essentially made banshee's the last teir of unit. Beyond that Motherships got hit a bit harder than expected, especially considering the corrupter buff =/
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lol... They killed the mother ship. Absolutely every stat got nerfed!
It says they reduced the attack from 8 to 6.. What does that mean? I only ever see it fire two beams at a single target.
I was kinda hoping the Ultra got a Buff.
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I think the point of the mothership is to be a joking "fun" unit. Not something you'd really see in the competitive environment. Think infested terrans from BW.
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Big buff to terran and huge nerf to the mothership I guess that was to be expected
Chronoboost is a bit surprising tho
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On February 27 2010 12:07 WhiteKnight wrote:
I was kinda hoping the Ultra got a Buff.
Ultras are pretty fucked up as they are.. At least P and T has some good counter units for them in SC2.. Nothing to see here ... ;P
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i also play terran just because it was and always will be the hardest race to master. And i too approve of this patch, much needed against the 75% protoss players out there.
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STILL no roach nerf?
I agree with a lot of these changes, but it seems like zerg is stronger than ever. Edit: vs P at least
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On February 27 2010 10:28 blade55555 wrote:
lol wow protoss mothership got a huge nerf :O. Wonder why 2 patches in 2 days? weird.
looks fine for me.. i think this game would need a TON of patches before being really competitive..
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After patch played against 5 terrans in a row (me as zerg). Lost each game vs players i'd beaten before. Their pushes just seemed to come so much quicker and I couldn't handle it. Maybe im tired and not playing well. After that I tried T myself and came up against WhiteRa and unluckily for him he fast expo'd while I was testing out a 3 rax marine rush ^^
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On February 27 2010 12:03 Virtue wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 11:13 TheAntZ wrote:On February 27 2010 11:10 Virtue wrote:On February 27 2010 10:54 TheAntZ wrote:On February 27 2010 10:49 StarsPride wrote:
lmao @ whiners wanting to switch races. grow up plz yeah, cuz growing up = loving to lose? fuck off Growing up is not acting like a whiny 2 year old rage quitting the game after every loss, haha frankly i never understood rage quitting outta like a tournament where money is on the line. You seem to not have much reading comprehension, never said I'm angry about the protoss nerf, nor that I rage quit games, nor that I even play protoss exclusively Haha and yet you insult me you seem very much the angry type. "yeah, cuz growing up = loving to lose? fuck off" lol seriously i'm suppose to believe that you're not an angry person, you insult me and insult everyone you're just full of angry imo, but oh wait i r not good at reading comprehension i must be inferring the wrong things from fuck off and you must not have much reading comprehension. This was a generalization to peoples characters when they loose games it was never directed at you although now i do think it fits you just fine mr omg everything is a personal attack on me so i must insult the people on the Internet. =p
again, TRY TO READ WHAT I WRITE
didnt say i wasnt angry. I said im not angry about the protoss nerf
seriously put some effort into it
gonna stop here, not a fan of derailing a perfectly good topic
On February 27 2010 12:15 theuser wrote:
i also play terran just because it was and always will be the hardest race to master. And i too approve of this patch, much needed against the 75% protoss players out there.
oh god dont tell me the bullshit terran elitism is carrying over to sc2
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On February 27 2010 10:29 Ziph wrote:
They should reduce lingspeed so you can actualy get away with your zealots or are able to scout.
And they need to make queens melee or just make them drone range :D
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lol, wow. i can only say one thing after reading all this qq
i'm glad u guys aren't the ones balancing the game
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They shouldn't have buffed terran marine rushes, rather buff helions (more base dmg instead of so much special like they did w/ vikings) and tanks (+1 armor) and some build times decreased on vikings and thors. Encourage nice games not rush games.
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On February 27 2010 12:45 Tump wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 10:29 Ziph wrote:
They should reduce lingspeed so you can actualy get away with your zealots or are able to scout. And they need to make queens melee or just make them drone range :D
Drone range and probe range is melee now XD
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On February 27 2010 12:49 wintergt wrote:
They shouldn't have buffed terran marine rushes, rather buff helions (more base dmg instead of so much special like they did w/ vikings) and tanks (+1 armor) and some build times decreased on vikings and thors. Encourage nice games not rush games.
Yeah I agree, they didn't really buff the right things. Factory units in general are already pretty terrible compared to barracks
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Holy shit!!!!! I like the changes for terrans but Im suprised they nerfed the mothership so much! OMG.
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
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United States4126 Posts
On February 27 2010 10:28 blade55555 wrote:
lol wow protoss mothership got a huge nerf :O. Wonder why 2 patches in 2 days? weird.
imo, they're catering to the results of the recent poll.
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On February 27 2010 13:10 Kinky wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 10:28 blade55555 wrote:
lol wow protoss mothership got a huge nerf :O. Wonder why 2 patches in 2 days? weird. imo, they're catering to the results of the recent poll.
for some reason, I taught that Zerg and Terran were already pretty OP with roaches/muta and reapers M&M rush and they keep buffing both and nerfing Toss... that only had zealot rush than.... WAYYYYYY later colossi.
to be honest I really don't mind since I switched to play zerg 2 days ago and now doing super fine in the ladder but... anyways I guess protoss is either doomed or it was just not my playstyle 
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I really hope they arent making changes based on the all the noobs in feedback screaming about imbalance, why not let the game play out a but longer ?
As for the mothership they might as well take it out of the game instead of making it a useless piece of shit, not that I care thats the only unit I have never used. But the CB, rly ? Who was crying about CB? What was the problem with it?
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lol the mothership nerf was needed. ive lost fights being 80 food up vs toss because of the mothership.
that fucker has made me lose games where im a base up on a high yield with complete map control.
it was A NEEDED nerf.
and before u say anything
I SCOUTED
AND
COUNTERED the mothership.
but unfortunetlly Vortex + storm > everything
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On February 27 2010 13:15 EvilSky wrote:
I really hope they arent making changes based on the all the noobs in feedback screaming about imbalance, why not let the game play out a but longer ?
As for the mothership they might as well take it out of the game instead of making it a useless piece of shit, not that I care thats the only unit I have never used. But the CB, rly ? Who was crying about CB? What was the problem with it?
well pvt is massively p favored but nerfing cb doesnt fix it and just makes pvz worse
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United States4126 Posts
On February 27 2010 13:15 EvilSky wrote:
I really hope they arent making changes based on the all the noobs in feedback screaming about imbalance, why not let the game play out a but longer ?
As for the mothership they might as well take it out of the game instead of making it a useless piece of shit, not that I care thats the only unit I have never used. But the CB, rly ? Who was crying about CB? What was the problem with it?
Probably because it's the only macro aspect of the three races that could speed up upgrades.
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i think pvz needs to get fixed. they need to get more info on this matchup and see what they can do
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why are the smacking protoss in the face so much?
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maybe all the top players are protoss?
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that just mean zerga and terran need to learn how to play instead asking for a nerf
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On February 27 2010 13:19 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 13:15 EvilSky wrote:
I really hope they arent making changes based on the all the noobs in feedback screaming about imbalance, why not let the game play out a but longer ?
As for the mothership they might as well take it out of the game instead of making it a useless piece of shit, not that I care thats the only unit I have never used. But the CB, rly ? Who was crying about CB? What was the problem with it? well pvt is massively p favored but nerfing cb doesnt fix it and just makes pvz worse
besides the motership i havnt had any issue beating any P on even level.
not sure what strats they are using vs you but i been able to beat toss 50 food down with just Marine Marauder Medivac Ghost and vikings for collos
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On February 27 2010 13:38 Response wrote:
why are the smacking protoss in the face so much?
All because you beat David Kim
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On February 27 2010 13:38 Response wrote:
why are the smacking protoss in the face so much?
They need more people to play terran, everyone was playing protoss it was botching their statistics.
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On February 27 2010 13:42 StarsPride wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 13:19 IdrA wrote:On February 27 2010 13:15 EvilSky wrote:
I really hope they arent making changes based on the all the noobs in feedback screaming about imbalance, why not let the game play out a but longer ?
As for the mothership they might as well take it out of the game instead of making it a useless piece of shit, not that I care thats the only unit I have never used. But the CB, rly ? Who was crying about CB? What was the problem with it? well pvt is massively p favored but nerfing cb doesnt fix it and just makes pvz worse besides the motership i havnt had any issue beating any P on even level. not sure what strats they are using vs you but i been able to beat toss 50 food down with just Marine Marauder Medivac Ghost and vikings for collos
I can see the pheonix be a good counter for ghost,
First, the pheonix will able to defend against viking and can levitate the ghost for neutralize the EMP, but i don' t have a key so this is just theorycrafting
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On February 27 2010 13:42 pencilcase wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 13:38 Response wrote:
why are the smacking protoss in the face so much? All because you beat David Kim
I proxied Dkim when he was terran is the reason
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On February 27 2010 11:16 LaLuSh wrote:
Good terran players are completely dominating zergs atm. This just made things worse.
huh? not on eu servers, ive been eating top terrans alive with ease.
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Awesome news for terran players. Atleast blizzard is on the ball addressing issues.
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On February 27 2010 13:42 StarsPride wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 13:19 IdrA wrote:On February 27 2010 13:15 EvilSky wrote:
I really hope they arent making changes based on the all the noobs in feedback screaming about imbalance, why not let the game play out a but longer ?
As for the mothership they might as well take it out of the game instead of making it a useless piece of shit, not that I care thats the only unit I have never used. But the CB, rly ? Who was crying about CB? What was the problem with it? well pvt is massively p favored but nerfing cb doesnt fix it and just makes pvz worse besides the motership i havnt had any issue beating any P on even level. not sure what strats they are using vs you but i been able to beat toss 50 food down with just Marine Marauder Medivac Ghost and vikings for collos
then you havent played any good p's
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I guess they get the good races too perfect to begin with. Lol +2 damage on a single unit constitutes the entire patch for zerg.
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This is what happens when 70% of the player pool plays protoss and wins a lot.
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toss got raped so hard...btw did they add new maps?
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They should at least make CB 25s so you can constantly CB a building, instead of having a 5s downtime waiting for energy.
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On February 27 2010 14:07 On_Slaught wrote:
This is what happens when 70% of the player pool plays protoss and wins a lot.
This happens when wow players join the beta and start spamming the balance board (they're experts at this).
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This forum could benefit towards the "WoW" way of thinking of nerfs/buffs.
Blizz's philosophy when it came to balance in WoW PvP is always to nerf, never to buff. The problem is, if you have one overpowered ability then you will usually need to buff more than one counter ability to match it. This creates a war of escalation and is much more difficult to keep track of than the alternative: nerfing. Nobody likes nerfing, but it's much, much easier to fix one attribute than change several others.
In this case, it's a lot easier to nerf Protoss than it is to buff Zerg/Terran which is what a lot of people are suggesting. I'm all in favor of Protoss nerfs if it means their balance is more on par with the other races, even though I play it myself.
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Nice nerf to Chrono boost. Terrans early game got a nice buff, maybe the distribution between races will be a bit more even.
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I don' t have any problem about nerfing protoss, the only thing I don't like is why nerf the CB i don't hear any complain about that, but i hear alot from inject laerva, not only from toss player but from all race
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nice for terran if you dont always wanna go Bio!
I love T Mech in SCII; so I think it's awesome.
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HAHAHA
Protoss got nerfed to shit.
Terran lookin' sexy
Zerg pretty much stays the same.
I really want to see some potent changes for Zerg.
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I don't see why this change to CB is being taken like it's the end of the world for the protoss. Hopefully this will mean less Protoss players though as all the platinum streams seem to be PvP.
Personally, I hope Blizzard takes out the macro mechanics before the game ships.
It looks like all this patch does is effect the game timings.
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Guys, it's a damn beta. Shit will get nerfed and buffed often. It's totally possible that Protoss will get buffed again very soon.
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I have realized something about Beta. While very fun, its also an extremely stressful time. Before we had to endure the torment of having no info and taking the developers scarce word on game change. With beta we have hands on input but still have to accept the designers final decision on how the game should be structured.
There are allot of things I think Blizzard could have put more polish/effort/creativity into. Macro in particular is one issue I felt could have been vastly improved but I am thankful for the progress that was made. Part of me still wonders what could have been had Blizzard pushed the envelope alittle bit more. I can understand the changes they are making as the easiest way to make the game "fit" and I am by no means calling Blizzard lazy...but part of me expected better from Blizzard.
My approach in light of this kind of disappointment/disagreement on so many issues is to not get too worked up over patch changes. Allot more uncomfortable changes will occur before beta is over and I really dont want my impression of SC2 to be tarnished before the game is even released.
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I have an unrelated-to-gameplay (more related to performance) favor to ask of those that have moved to the second patch (if you play at any detail setting *above* all-medium), and it may sound strange.
If you're willing, drop down to all detail settings at medium *except* movies (leave those at 3D).
Yes; I have a reason for the odd request.
I have said before (specifically in the Graphics vs. Gameplay thread) that the original beta client was one of the best looking games at medium detail period (let alone one of the best-looking RTS titles, regardless of resolution) and I was wondering if the folks at Blizard could improve on it.
Ghu help us; they found a way.
I categorically admit to owning one of the weakest PCIe graphics cards on Earth (HIS AMD HD3450 PCIe with just 256 MB of DDR2). A decided wimp.
Yet despite the wimpy GPU, I can dial things up to 1360x800 (everything at medium, including physics, except for movies, which is at 3D/High), and without dropping below 20 fps. The original client would drop as far down as to 15 fps (5 frames/second less). And that was with physics switched *off*.
Still, despite the evidence of my own eyeballs, I want additional data (hence the question).
Apparently, despite the nerfing of the Mothership, Blizzard found time to sneak in some actual performance gains. I'm actually seriously impressed (nay, seriously shocked).
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Just lost my first straight up PvT scary feeling I dare say . So used to rejoice when faced against a terran. I'll play some more until I go QQing about imba but dang marines are so good with automicro.
OK NVM terran is unbelievably IMBA in PvT <.<,
How are you supposed to counter vikings? They rape anything airwise and since u then can't make collosus u get raped by marines. Guess storm or something but so easy to get emp'd. T_T
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On February 27 2010 14:44 Quixoticism wrote:
I don't see why this change to CB is being taken like it's the end of the world for the protoss. Hopefully this will mean less Protoss players though as all the platinum streams seem to be PvP.
Personally, I hope Blizzard takes out the macro mechanics before the game ships.
It looks like all this patch does is effect the game timings.
The change is that you can't CB allied structures (you can still CB your own). Also, it costs *less* to CB (10 minerals, down from 15). Cooldown and length remain unchanged. For Terrans, this is partially offset by Extra Supplies (Supply Depot add-on from the CC; you do NOT lose that when upgrading to Orbital Command or Planetary Fortress); what remains is offset by Calldown MULE. The Zerg don't need the offset, as they have the lowest unit cost of any of the three species (as they did in SC1).
There is a surprise in this patch (other than the nerf and buffs) that I certainly wasn't expecting.
There is actually better performance compared to the original client (I went straight from the original to patch 2). I actually *added* Physics (Medium vs. Off), leaving all other settings at medium detail (default is low or off) at 1360x800/32-bit. I didn't drop below 24 fps at all. (The floor moved from 19 fps with the original client.)
Increase detail after two patches, but framerates improve?
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On February 27 2010 10:22 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I really wish I had this patch when I was playing my first 80 games as Terran lol
and by 80, you mean 200
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On February 27 2010 15:36 Neliel-54N wrote:Just lost my first straight up PvT scary feeling I dare say . So used to rejoice when faced against a terran. I'll play some more until I go QQing about imba but dang marines are so good with automicro. OK NVM terran is unbelievably IMBA in PvT <.<, How are you supposed to counter vikings? They rape anything airwise and since u then can't make collosus u get raped by marines. Guess storm or something but so easy to get emp'd. T_T
Void Rays/Phoenix absolutely demolish vikings. Also, Stalkers are pretty good, too especially with blink. It all comes down to Micro.
Nothing changed the patch in regard with these units. Sure, Vikings got a little buff, but as a Terran player, I can say we are still the hardest race to play. There's a reason you scarcely see any Terrans in the running for the top spots...
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On February 27 2010 15:57 Rothbardian wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 15:36 Neliel-54N wrote:Just lost my first straight up PvT scary feeling I dare say . So used to rejoice when faced against a terran. I'll play some more until I go QQing about imba but dang marines are so good with automicro. OK NVM terran is unbelievably IMBA in PvT <.<, How are you supposed to counter vikings? They rape anything airwise and since u then can't make collosus u get raped by marines. Guess storm or something but so easy to get emp'd. T_T Void Rays/Phoenix absolutely demolish vikings. Also, Stalkers are pretty good, too especially with blink. It all comes down to Micro. Nothing changed the patch in regard with these units. Sure, Vikings got a little buff, but as a Terran player, I can say we are still the hardest race to play. There's a reason you scarcely see any Terrans in the running for the top spots...
maybe because the patch just release ?
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Blizzard has always had a brutal policy on patching. Typically they over-nerf something to see how much it effects the game before finding a solid middle ground. A lot of the time these brutal nerf patches do not see the light of day though. It's so incredibly likely that each race will go through some serious changes throughout the beta and this just so happens to be protoss' time.
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
On February 27 2010 10:23 ocho wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 10:22 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I'll be picking up terran for a bit until they make Protoss playable again. Same
Same
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On February 27 2010 16:34 Jenia6109 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 10:23 ocho wrote:On February 27 2010 10:22 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I'll be picking up terran for a bit until they make Protoss playable again. Same Same
i see the patch is working
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United States47024 Posts
On February 27 2010 14:29 KhAlleB wrote:
I don' t have any problem about nerfing protoss, the only thing I don't like is why nerf the CB i don't hear any complain about that, but i hear alot from inject laerva, not only from toss player but from all race
Balancing based on what people complain about is a terrible way to balance a game. The majority of players just complain based on their gut reaction to certain units, and don't bother to look beyond that to what might actually be imbalanced.
What probably happened was that they couldn't find specific unit interactions that weren't working the way they wanted, but simply that Protoss had more units than expected across the board, particularly when chrono-boosted Warp Gates were involved.
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On February 27 2010 15:57 Rothbardian wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 15:36 Neliel-54N wrote:Just lost my first straight up PvT scary feeling I dare say . So used to rejoice when faced against a terran. I'll play some more until I go QQing about imba but dang marines are so good with automicro. OK NVM terran is unbelievably IMBA in PvT <.<, How are you supposed to counter vikings? They rape anything airwise and since u then can't make collosus u get raped by marines. Guess storm or something but so easy to get emp'd. T_T Void Rays/Phoenix absolutely demolish vikings. Also, Stalkers are pretty good, too especially with blink. It all comes down to Micro. Nothing changed the patch in regard with these units. Sure, Vikings got a little buff, but as a Terran player, I can say we are still the hardest race to play. There's a reason you scarcely see any Terrans in the running for the top spots...
Well the thing is now you have to play super defensivley to survive the terrans early pushes, at the same time they expand so they'll get a faster expand then you and you'll be behind economicly. This leads to that you won't be able to match the vikings in sheer numbers with phoenix hence why I think Vikings is a much bigger threat this patch, not because the slight buff they got. Sure, if you only built phoenix you could outmass them but the real threat is on the ground. Collosus becomes useless because of vikings, and Immortals get totally annihalated by marines without backup from colossi. As for stalkers, LOL. Stalkers are so terribly bad, they're a disgrace for the protoss race. Stalkers only real job is to clear out scouting worker at start and works as an "oh shit button" when you get surprised by air units. Also the mothership now is pretty useless, not because of it's nerfed hp/shield or increased mana cost on vortex. But it now is so goddamn fucking slow. It basicly feels like it's not moving at all. Add to that the removal of Wormohole transit and you have a crappy unit.
However, though, I tried a templar opening with some success. But with the templar opening you're very fragile to EMP and you won't get an observer early. Things that becomes easy to stop because of the early observer suddenly becomes a big threat, for example: Reapers, kind of a crappy unit once you've scouted them, they can at height be good at keeping the Protoss in his base for a littlewhile but as said, no big use once scouted. However, while not scouted you're likley to have insuffcient units to cover all you're buildings and mineral line even with a tight knit simcity, then you only need to slip for a moment and you'll have lost a bunch of probes, some important tech building and most likley the game assuming 2 even combatants. Also things like banshee rush becomes a larger threat.
I guess opening Robo get observer and maybe some immortal and then go storm may work but storm is gonna be quite late so taking an expand will be risky. As I keep pondering I notice there's alot of different stuff to try out so I'll take back my IMBA QQing for now, it was just a bit of nerdrage after losing to an imho worse player.
As someone else already stated, the Terrans are not seen in the top because the patch was just implemented. Terrans used to have basicly a freeloss against protoss. From the looks if it that's certainly not the case anymore so I think we'll see alot more Terrans at the top after this week.
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On February 27 2010 16:34 Jenia6109 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 10:23 ocho wrote:On February 27 2010 10:22 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I'll be picking up terran for a bit until they make Protoss playable again. Same Same
TYPICAL PROTOSS
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Is it me or is there a pattern?
-> They nerfed protoss blizz sucks i'll play terran
-> They nerfed my paladin blizz sucks i'll play warlock
*shudder* O_o
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Everyone complaining here needs to realize they're playing the beta of the game and massive balance changes are the whole point of it, switching from a team you were playing to another one to the more powerful one means you dont really understand your job as a beta tester ><. If a patch this harsh came out after release and when u were practicing for tournaments or w/e, the ridiculous whining might be understandable, but jesus, play and enjoy testing a game that the other 90% of the community wishes they were doing you fags ._.
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TL needs to ban people who QQ because of beta nerfs
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I remember the time:
Zerg
Spawning Pool
The mineral cost for this building has been increased from 150 to 200.
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On February 27 2010 17:35 mahnini wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 16:34 Jenia6109 wrote:On February 27 2010 10:23 ocho wrote:On February 27 2010 10:22 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I'll be picking up terran for a bit until they make Protoss playable again. Same Same TYPICAL PROTOSS
typical whining bitch who hates protoss
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i doubt 90% of what's in the beta is currently set in stone for the "final" cut, so really, why are you worrying? they'll be patching it again in a week and if P really is terrible now they'll buff them (and hopefully nerf spawn larvae a little, maybe only spawn 3 more larva?)
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The wow players are ruining this game for sure, they are so horrible I am amazed!
Blizzard is just going to do the same thing they did in WoW, release alot of crazy patches regulary buffing/nerfing and people will switch to the FOTM race or buildorder every other month.
This game is ruined believe it, it doesnt matter its only beta and all. Why?
Look at the 2 latest patches! Completely the same shit they pulled on wow, nerf//buff races based on statistics on ranking system and how much people whine at the forums.
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On February 27 2010 18:59 Kylig wrote:
Look at the 2 latest patches! Completely the same shit they pulled on wow, nerf//buff races based on statistics on ranking system and how much people whine at the forums.
Completely the same shit they pulled on StarCraft 1.
1.02
+ Show Spoiler +- Increased the cost of a Zerg Hatchery from 300 to 350 minerals.
- Changed the damage type of the Photon Cannon weapon system from explosion to normal.
1.04
+ Show Spoiler +TERRAN:
Wraith
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
- Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
- Increased air to air damage to 20.
Dropship:
- Increased speed slightly.
- Although the patch.txt included with patch 1.04 states that dropship build time was increased, this is INCORRECT.
Science Vessel:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 225 gas.
- Increased acceleration.
- Increased overall damage of Irradiate.
- Increased sight radius.
Battlecruiser:
- Increased its starting armor to 3.
- Increased Yamato Cannon damage to 260.
Goliath:
- Increased ground damage to 12.
- Increased effectivness of weapon upgrade on ground to air weapon system.
Nuke:
- Nuclear Missiles build faster.
ComSat:
- Decreased energy cost to 50.
Starport:
- Decrease cost of Starport to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
- Decreased add-on cost of Control Tower to 50 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
===============================
PROTOSS:
Archon:
- Increased acceleration.
Dragoon:
- Decreased cost to 125 minerals, 50 gas.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased range upgrade (Singularity Charge) by 1.
High Templar:
- Decreased energy cost of Hallucination to 100.
Scout:
- Increased Air to Air damage to 28.
- Increased shields to 100 and hit points to 150.
- Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
Carrier:
- Changed build cost to 350 minerals, and 250 gas.
- Increased hit points of Carrier to 300.
- Increased starting armor of Carrier to 4.
- Increased Interceptor shields and hitpoints to 40.
- Increased Interceptor damage to 6.
Arbiter:
- Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 350 gas.
Shuttle:
- Increased build time.
Reaver:
- Increased build time.
Templar Archives
- Increased cost to 150 minerals, 200 gas.
Citadel of Adun
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Stargate:
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 150 gas.
- Decreased build time.
Robotics Facility:
- Increased build time.
Robotics Support Bay:
- Increased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Observatory:
- Decreased cost to 50 minerals, 100 gas.
Forge:
- Decreased cost to 150 minerals.
Photon Cannon:
- Decreased build time.
Fleet Beacon:
- Decreased cost of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
- Decreased research time of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade.
Shield Battery:
- Increased starting energy to 100.
- Increased effective range of 'Recharge Shields'.
===============================
ZERG:
Overlord:
- Increased speed bonus for "Pneumatized Carapace" upgrade.
- Decreased research time of "Ventral Sacs" upgrade.
Scourge:
- Increase hit points to 25.
Hydralisk
- Increased build time.
Mutalisk
- Although the patch.txt included with patch 1.04 states that Mutalisk build time was increased, this in INCORRECT.
Queen:
- Increased range of Broodling by 1.
- Increase energy cost of Parasite to 75
- Decreased Parasite casting range to 12.
Defiler:
- Increased cost to 50 minerals, 150 gas.
Hatchery:
- Decreased the speed at which the Hatchery/Lair/Hive spawn new larva.
- Decreased build cost to 300 minerals.
- Increased build time.
Sunken Colony:
- Decreased cost of Sunken Colony upgrade to 50 minerals.
- Decreased build time.
- Increased attack rate of Sunken Colony.
- Increased damage to 40.
Spore Colony:
- Decreased build time.
- Changed damage type to normal.
Greater Spire:
- Increased build time.
1.05
+ Show Spoiler +- Reduced Academy cost to 150 minerals.
- Reduced Science Facility cost to 100 minerals, 150 gas.
- Reduced Spider Mine research cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
- Reduced the cooldown for units on unload from a transport.
- Hallucinated devourers no longer leave acid spores on targeted units.
- Spider mines are now properly affected by disruption web.
- Neutral medics no longer auto-heal units.
1.08
+ Show Spoiler +TERRAN:
Valkyrie:
- Damage increase to 6 per missile.
- Acceleration and velocity increased slightly.
- Build time decreased.
Science Facility:
- Build time decreased.
- Irradiate research cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas.
- Yamato Cannon research cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Missile Turret:
- Decreased cost to 75 minerals.
Factory:
- Charon Missile Booster research cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Dropship:
- Increased speed.
Goliath:
- Increased ground attack range.
Battle Cruiser:
- Build time decreased.
- Supply cost decreased to 6.
PROTOSS:
Dragoon:
- Build time increased.
Scout:
- Decreased cost to 275 minerals, 125 gas.
Carrier:
- Supply cost decreased to 6.
Templar:
- Psi Storm Damage reduced.
Corsair:
- Disruption Web spell duration decreased.
Zealot:
- Shields decreased to 60 and hit points increased to 100.
ZERG:
Queen:
- Decreased build cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Ultralisk:
- Supply cost decreased to 4.
Queen's Nest:
- Spawn Broodling cost decreased to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Hydralisk Den:
- Lurker Aspect cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas.
- Hydralisk speed upgrade cost increased to 150 minerals, 150 gas.
Spawning Pool:
- Increased build cost to 200 minerals
Sunken Colony:
- Building armor increased to 2.
- Hit points decreased to 300.
It took Blizzard 4 patches to balance SC1.
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On February 27 2010 18:59 Kylig wrote:
The wow players are ruining this game for sure, they are so horrible I am amazed!
Blizzard is just going to do the same thing they did in WoW, release alot of crazy patches regulary buffing/nerfing and people will switch to the FOTM race or buildorder every other month.
This game is ruined believe it, it doesnt matter its only beta and all. Why?
Look at the 2 latest patches! Completely the same shit they pulled on wow, nerf//buff races based on statistics on ranking system and how much people whine at the forums.
Actually this is not what they did in this patch. Terran really needed the buff, chrono boost wasn't really hit that hard and mothership was not a standard unit for most of the beta time and the protosses were still mostly at the top before its imbaness was discovered.
Protoss is probably the weakest race right now, but not by far and not for sure either.
If they nerfed/buffed based on forum posts they would have nerfed the roach a loooong time ago.
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On February 27 2010 18:59 Kylig wrote:
This game is ruined believe it, it doesnt matter its only beta and all. Why?
Look at the 2 latest patches! Completely the same shit they pulled on wow, nerf//buff races based on statistics on ranking system and how much people whine at the forums.
yeah, let's not nerf/buff based on statistics and user complaints
let's just do it arbitrarily till something good happens
seriously, they're tweaking the hell out of it so they can get a good read on how strong each unit is. Since a lot of P was mothership rushing, they nerfed the hell out of it for now so they can get a better read on other units. the balance by the end of the beta probably won't be the balance at launch. It's a beta test, not a beta "play the game early for no reason". They're testing, stop complaining and either help them with it (the point of the beta), or ignore it
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Um, why is it that everyone complains on tweaking down P? The koreans said toss were completely dominating the ladders, and about 70% or whatever it was, was in fact protoss.
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On February 27 2010 10:18 KhAlleB wrote:
Banshee
Cloak: This ability no longer requires Fusion Core to research.
Dear god thank you. Now it only costs 200/200 instead of 400/400.
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It took Blizzard 4 patches to balance SC1.
And its still not balanced ;f
As for SC2 patch, you can be thankful for noobs with keys for all this shit. It seems they already making mess with this game...
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lol, i dont have beta but from what this thread looks like i fear that blizzard buffs specific build orders and unit compositions every other month, so that the mister average can use all kinds of units and be successfull with what he is doing, thus keeping them play the game for longer.
will there be a monthly rent for playing on bnet?
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Blizzard is doing a great job with the patches. It was pretty obvious that Protoss was overpowered seeing as majority of the players were P. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that.
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I think we are seeing the progress of development on the mothership - this is the builds there going threw internally i would expect more changes in the future and not all negative
I like all these changes -- it took forever to rush for cloaked banshees
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<am i the only one not just seeing a bio buff for terran but a Techbuff overall?
You can get Starcraft so incredible fast now.
Before, if you went for FE vs P. You got pushed hard, while P was Expanding with ease.
Same goes for teching.
Now you have to chose what you want to do.
-Teching
-FE
-Push
You can´t do 2 of them, without heavy risks against T now.
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Holy tomatoe this thread is hilarious. Dont opt into a beta if you dont want to be part of a longlasting patchwar.
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This is a Beta, aggressive patching should be expected.
You've got to be a horribly pathetic person to moan about balance already or switching races lol?!
This is a beta, you have a key whilst others don't. You're lucky to be playing at all.
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United States13919 Posts
On February 27 2010 19:21 Crunchums wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 10:18 KhAlleB wrote:
Banshee
Cloak: This ability no longer requires Fusion Core to research. Dear god thank you. Now it only costs 200/200 instead of 400/400.
like an instant loss if i play against terran that techs fast banshees now
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Whats the difference with or without Cloak?
Zerg got Overseers<--You always have an Overlord
Protoss got Observer<--You´ll always go for Robots
Both can´t be killed by Banshees so they are safe.
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On February 27 2010 20:24 Klive5ive wrote:
This is a Beta, aggressive patching should be expected.
You've got to be a horribly pathetic person to moan about balance already or switching races lol?!
This is a beta, you have a key whilst others don't. You're lucky to be playing at all.
Yeah this. Beta is a process, they have to try different things, if it doesn't work it doesn't work. Have faith in Blizzard.
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Wow this seems like a joke.
A bad joke.
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On February 27 2010 14:09 Biribiri wrote:
They should at least make CB 25s so you can constantly CB a building, instead of having a 5s downtime waiting for energy.
It takes 40 seconds to regenerate 25 energy and there was a downtime even with the 30 second duration.
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On February 27 2010 10:22 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I'll be picking up terran for a bit until they make Protoss playable again.
Rush to Zealots with charge and a Stalker to defend reaper harass, Zealot + Charge + Sentry = Rape. If you cry about your race getting nerfed 'slightly' and its really slightly, try to play Terran vs a good Protoss and realize its still fucking hard.
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On February 27 2010 22:04 G.s)NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 10:22 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I'll be picking up terran for a bit until they make Protoss playable again. Rush to Zealots with charge and a Stalker to defend reaper harass, Zealot + Charge + Sentry = Rape. If you cry about your race getting nerfed 'slightly' and its really slightly, try to play Terran vs a good Protoss and realize its still fucking hard.
He was already back to protoss after his terran got beaten a few times by protoss. (if it was his lifestream i watched yesterday) A balanced army of zealots, stalkers, immortals and 1 or 2 colossi in the back with decent micro is just near unbeatable for terran it looks like.
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Remember that a technique often used in balancing is taking units and races that aren't used much and buffing them a lot. Just to make people use them more. Once people develop strategies with them they can nerf them back to a balanced state. If this boost was too good for terran then maybe the reason was that they didn't see enough terrans in the ladders. If only a few people play one race then its hard to balance it.
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starcraft 2 sucks...give me the 3d broodwar
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Stop crying babies, this is an epic game in the making.
Everyone wants the best game asap. this is a game in development and it takes time to get the perfect balance.
Blizzard needs to test things, because without testing you can never say something is NOT GOOD for the balance in the game.
Some people expect to much, this is beta indeed expect huge balance changes, like said before in this thread.
People that don't discuss actual gameplay and balance, please gtfo.
Blizzard is obviously tracking threads like this,
so discussing about what you don't like about [b]patches [/b ]without saying anything about the actual gameplay doesn't help anybody.
So please keep this a proper discussion and speed up the process of balancing multiplayer.
For example, I expect lurkers to be added in a patch. For now Blizzard just want to see how Zerg is played without them, so they know for sure what lurkers really add to the game, and when they are in the tech-tree needed.
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as a terran im so happy for this patch lol
i still find tvp hard tho
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This patch does not seem too unreasonable for a beta. I won't cry to see the mothership go completely in favour of arbiters though.
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On February 27 2010 22:55 edahl wrote:
This patch does not seem too unreasonable for a beta. I won't cry to see the mothership go completely in favour of arbiters though.
I will not know what to feel if they removed all new units and added the old ones back in.
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mothership new arbiter....3 of my life for this?
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I wonder why they dont change the damage reapers do to buildings instead of the building time. Like 6 of them one hit a sunken?
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On February 27 2010 20:24 Klive5ive wrote:
This is a Beta, aggressive patching should be expected.
You've got to be a horribly pathetic person to moan about balance already or switching races lol?!
This is a beta, you have a key whilst others don't. You're lucky to be playing at all.
This
+1
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On February 27 2010 22:04 G.s)NarutO wrote:
Rush to Zealots with charge and a Stalker to defend reaper harass
Yeah, sure... just build a cycore, tcouncil, research charge and pump those units out... before reapers get to your base. You couldn't do that in v1, before gateways and chrono got nerfed AND barracks/tech lab was buffed. Try this on Desert Oasis against a Terran who isn't playing with his feet and glhf with that.
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On February 27 2010 22:16 wintergt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2010 22:04 G.s)NarutO wrote:On February 27 2010 10:22 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I'll be picking up terran for a bit until they make Protoss playable again. Rush to Zealots with charge and a Stalker to defend reaper harass, Zealot + Charge + Sentry = Rape. If you cry about your race getting nerfed 'slightly' and its really slightly, try to play Terran vs a good Protoss and realize its still fucking hard. He was already back to protoss after his terran got beaten a few times by protoss. (if it was his lifestream i watched yesterday) A balanced army of zealots, stalkers, immortals and 1 or 2 colossi in the back with decent micro is just near unbeatable for terran it looks like.
Bio + Medivac + Viking + Ghost :p
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or mech + vikings + ghosts
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Not to bitch, but I've been following the beta forums and it just seems they're catering to the people who cant think of ways to counter stuff.
I realize beta is expected to receive massive balance changes back and forth, but I really dislike that Blizzard would even take note of what the whining noobs (mostly non-sc players) complain about on the forums.
Imho the current beta pool has too little serious Starcraft players that know what they're talking about when it comes to balance. Those people think further into what changes to one race does to other races.
Sadly, right now theres too many elite idiots in the beta pool who want their race buffed and others nerfed because they can't think of ways to counter what they get owned by.
As for this patch, I think it sucks that toss recieved a cb nerf on top of the gateway nerf (which makes core later, etc etc...) but I dont expect it to stay this way. MS I really care less about. Either way, regardless of how bad Protoss get nerfed, I'll still continue to try to find ways to beat other players as toss. I'm not in beta yet but I do follow it very closely. (Thank god for no NDA)
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On February 27 2010 22:23 DrainX wrote:
Remember that a technique often used in balancing is taking units and races that aren't used much and buffing them a lot. Just to make people use them more. Once people develop strategies with them they can nerf them back to a balanced state. If this boost was too good for terran then maybe the reason was that they didn't see enough terrans in the ladders. If only a few people play one race then its hard to balance it.
Hmmm. They really need to buff Hellions, then.
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wow... T must be awesome now...
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FIX SIEGE TANKS... OMFG
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ouch...
As a P player this has be ticked.
Nerf my gateways
Take away my moship starting energy
Take away wormhole transit (I actually loved this ability)
Then nerf the moship to make it an unglorified unique arbiter which I will no longer waste my minerals on? puh-leeze
Nerf my chrono boost
AND THEN buff early T (which was already my worst match-up. (Plus they already buffed the build time on orbital command so DT's are even less viable.. FAIL! Yeah there goes any chance I had of doing decent in the near future with P...
le sigh. I might just wait for the next patch...
~LoA
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On February 28 2010 01:51 LordofAscension wrote:
le sigh. I might just wait for the next patch... Or you can just start playing Terran :D
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Jesus the whole point of these changes is to test the balance. See what happens when your chrono boost is shorter and when the mothership sucks ass. ADAPT and then see what happens. Stop whining before even trying. Or else all the feedback blizzard is going to get will be on the level of "MARAUDERS ARE IMBALANCED, THEY KILL ME. TAKE MARAUDERS OUT OF GAME PLEASE"
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On February 28 2010 01:58 z]Benny wrote:
Jesus the whole point of these changes is to test the balance. See what happens when your chrono boost is shorter and when the mothership sucks ass. ADAPT and then see what happens. Stop whining before even trying. Or else all the feedback blizzard is going to get will be on the level of "MARAUDERS ARE IMBALANCED, THEY KILL ME. TAKE MARAUDERS OUT OF GAME PLEASE"
Well said. Blizzard get enough useless feedback from the WoW players, so you should be using things that are least represented in order for them to fix the problems and make the best game possible.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
Just scrap that shit and bring arbiters back.
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The problem I see is people aren't logical when it comes to balance. They have an extremely hard time seeing the other side of the fence. Protoss was dominating the ladders, and you are acting surprised you got tweaked? You aren't losing cause they nerfed your race, you just aren't as good as you thought you were.
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I would like to hear some of the top random players, like KBH. I guess they are more objective than most.
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OH GOD!!! Teamliquid is turing into Gameriot's WoW OH God.....no......NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On February 28 2010 01:51 LordofAscension wrote:
le sigh. I might just wait for the next patch...
Really? What is wrong with you you're actually IN the beta, unlike so many of us, and you're gonna sit out because you don't want to risk a loss or two hurting your ELO? Or did this patch just ruin any possibility of fun being had from playing Protoss. God I would love to play beta even if i was only allowed to play Protoss and only could tech to the nerfed mothership.....
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People are taking these nerfs so personal, I mean it's just the beta, the point is to find balance, interesting gameplay and fix bugs, not to make your favorite race the strongest. If the game was out and they'd come with such nerfs I would understand but now? Totally expected.
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Yeah the whining of protoss users in this thread is so anoying. Hey I got lucky I got in to beta but im not gonna play because I for once in my life I might be at a small disadvantage with my race instead of getting free wins..
And on topic: This is how beta works. This is not the final patch. Things will be OP during the beta. Stop crying and so will I
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ionno patch seems to made game unstable for me i crash like every 3 games it's been and it's killing my ladder rank
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United States47024 Posts
On February 28 2010 01:51 LordofAscension wrote:
As a P player this has be ticked.
I think this is the problem. Players are developing race attachments before the races themselves are fully defined in terms of the roles units play in them.
It's beta. There are multiple reasons why it's a bad idea for you to be playing one race to the exclusion of others to begin with. One being that a good distribution of data across all three races is better than having a lot of data about one race (even if you disagreed that Protoss was imbalanced, you had to agree that there was a disproportionate slant of players toward Protoss). Another is that the races are going to undergo such drastic changes that it just simply makes no sense to hamstring yourself by saying you're going to play one race before release.
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imo protoss are still fine in their current state...
only have trouble vs zerg that spams mutalisk with a fast expand
or when I fuck up badly!
so from my point of view... Zergs MUTALISK (only I don't care about roaches) needs to be either nerfed, cost more to GET THERE or give something to protoss so their can kill, cause as of now "stalkers, phoeniex, void, carriers" arrent good counters and sentries are somewhat good but FRAKING slow!
so yah... as a protoss player here is what I have to say..... if you lose to T's they you seriously need to get faster and get good upgrades (such as charge) and make more sentries and learn how to use them.
as for Zergs massing roaches if you lose to them, learn to use immortals.... like now... and learn to switch zealots as soon as they are making any hydras or ling push and also UPGRADE your damn units.... you get a forge... use it!
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On February 28 2010 05:25 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2010 01:51 LordofAscension wrote:
As a P player this has be ticked.
I think this is the problem. Players are developing race attachments before the races themselves are fully defined in terms of the roles units play in them. It's beta. There are multiple reasons why it's a bad idea for you to be playing one race to the exclusion of others to begin with. One being that a good distribution of data across all three races is better than having a lot of data about one race (even if you disagreed that Protoss was imbalanced, you had to agree that there was a disproportionate slant of players toward Protoss). Another is that the races are going to undergo such drastic changes that it just simply makes no sense to hamstring yourself by saying you're going to play one race before release.
Will someone give this man a prize and sticky his response on the starcraft2 general AND THE SC2 strategy forum.
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err, this isn't a buff to terran bio, but a buff to all terran production, and especially a buff for non-tech lab units. Hellions, vikings, marines are all much more viable to mass with this patch.
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thx for 2 patches in 2 days, quick work, but it makes people want to play terran and trash toss! ok then... terran here we go!(I was deciding to switch to T/P instead of my current P/Z because of the whole thing about no scourge and sucky templar anyways) Can't wait till I can get SC2 and play it!
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people switching races because of patches are ridiculous - SERIOUSLY WTF?? its a fcking beta!!
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It's not a buff to bio at all really. The timings shaved off like 10 seconds for bio, and 20 seconds from teching and like a minute for cloaked banshees (which are still easily countered by toss and reasonably countered by zerg). Before it felt like you were forced to go bio because you couldn't compete with a FE by zerg or toss, and quite frankly unless you played well and protoss played poorly you couldn't even win with a push. Now i'm finding I can match a push and actually keep at an equal level with protoss. The biggest buff to terran is the huge reduction in time for the reactor core giving you a manageable infrastructure. I can now go 1 rax reactor into 2 factory still have a good enough number of marines to prevent early warpray or mutas and actually USE tanks or hellions because it's not a complete washout to 1 air unit. And protoss are still tough as shit because they have better units mid-late game.
P.S. I have over 200 games played so i'm not just making this up
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Do me a favor and just take out the Mothership if you are going to nerf it to death
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They should've just made the mothership armored(again?), instead of reducing HP. Currently the anti-heavy air units, like the void ray, deal low damage against it, while they should counter it somewhat.
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Wow, totally nerfing the mothership!
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The real funny thing is how many times has a Blizzard designer in an interview said something like "Were really trying to seperate the multiplayer experience from single player expeirence. They have different considerations and we want to make sure that the units/mechanics are appropriate for each."
Everytime I hear something like that I want to shout out "No you dont!!!!! If you did the mothership wouldnt be in multiplayer! That unit has got more singleplayer in it than Jim Raynor's vulture bike!"
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For me, when there is a race in an RTS game (or when anything gets nerfed in any type of game i guess) I try to use that race that got nurfed more, not switch and avoid using it. If you can still win with a nurfed race, it will make you a lot better, especially if they end up buffing it later.
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On February 28 2010 01:51 LordofAscension wrote:
ouch...
As a P player this has be ticked.
Nerf my gateways
Take away my moship starting energy
Take away wormhole transit (I actually loved this ability)
Then nerf the moship to make it an unglorified unique arbiter which I will no longer waste my minerals on? puh-leeze
Nerf my chrono boost
AND THEN buff early T (which was already my worst match-up. (Plus they already buffed the build time on orbital command so DT's are even less viable.. FAIL! Yeah there goes any chance I had of doing decent in the near future with P...
le sigh. I might just wait for the next patch...
~LoA
Why the Mothership got nerfed - because of those players that basically used it as a single-unit early rush (as opposed to the supersized Arbiter replacement it was supposed to be). Normally, you can't rush Protoss (because of the unit costs); however, the Mothership was rushable (because you only had to stock up somewhat on minerals + gas early; the only prereq is a Fleet Beacon). Never mind that you could (and still can) rush/spam Terrans and Zerg (especially Zerg). The thinking was "Proactive Protoss? Time to slow them down!"
Now, you pretty much would *only* use the Mothership (in the early game) as a defender (too expensive to use as a harass/rush unit by itself); then, once you build proper support (not just air units, like Void Rays and Phoenix, as well as a Carrier or two, but Stalkers, Immortals, Colossi, and possibly High/Dark Templars and Zealots), "counterattack".
There are still those that fear the idea of aggressive Protoss (even though, historically, the Protoss were VERY proactive pre-Tassadar, with the biggest example being Chau Sara). Aggressive Terrans or Zerg are fine, but proactive Protoss? Oh, heck no!
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On February 28 2010 06:11 PredY wrote:
people switching races because of patches are ridiculous - SERIOUSLY WTF?? its a fcking beta!!
Well, being that a majority of American players right now are Protoss, this might balance out the races. People don't choose to play Protoss just because they love their look but it was easier to play Protoss than the other two races.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 28 2010 10:23 PGHammer wrote:
Why the Mothership got nerfed - because of those players that basically used it as a single-unit early rush (as opposed to the supersized Arbiter replacement it was supposed to be). Normally, you can't rush Protoss (because of the unit costs); however, the Mothership was rushable (because you only had to stock up somewhat on minerals + gas early; the only prereq is a Fleet Beacon). Never mind that you could (and still can) rush/spam Terrans and Zerg (especially Zerg). The thinking was "Proactive Protoss? Time to slow them down!"
Now, you pretty much would *only* use the Mothership (in the early game) as a defender (too expensive to use as a harass/rush unit by itself); then, once you build proper support (not just air units, like Void Rays and Phoenix, as well as a Carrier or two, but Stalkers, Immortals, Colossi, and possibly High/Dark Templars and Zealots), "counterattack".
There are still those that fear the idea of aggressive Protoss (even though, historically, the Protoss were VERY proactive pre-Tassadar, with the biggest example being Chau Sara). Aggressive Terrans or Zerg are fine, but proactive Protoss? Oh, heck no!
It probably did have to do with mothership rushing, but more than just a lore issue of protoss being an aggressive race (if anything, Terran is the race that's supposed to be the most defensive) -- mothership rushing just doesn't seem interesting. There's not much micro to either side of the battle (the Protoss only has one unit to control, and the opponent only has one unit to fire at), and if, heaven forbid, there was a mirror match, it'd basically be a WC3 hero vs. hero fight.
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lmao the mothership got so owned. I bet it can still play a powerful role in PvT tho I can't wait to see pros use it.
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On February 28 2010 07:18 Archerofaiur wrote:
The real funny thing is how many times has a Blizzard designer in an interview said something like "Were really trying to seperate the multiplayer experience from single player expeirence. They have different considerations and we want to make sure that the units/mechanics are appropriate for each."
Everytime I hear something like that I want to shout out "No you dont!!!!! If you did the mothership wouldnt be in multiplayer! That unit has got more singleplayer in it than Jim Raynor's vulture bike!"
Why do it scream singleplayer? One race having a one at a time limited unit can lead to even more diverse matchups than what we got in sc1. I mean, who decided that you can't have one at a time units? The mothership is a quite good example of a well made one at a time unit, its abilities do scale very well with army sizes and it is nothing special in terms of combat strength per cost any longer.
Basically it is a way to keep really strong spells in the game without making them spammable. And it is balanced since as I said since the motherships spells are just to support/disrupt the armies it is not like it is imbalanced with small amounts of units or worthless with large amounts of units.
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I share the feelings of the people that are saying this is a beta and the entire point is to test balance issues. Whining is worthless and a bit hilarious.
In regards to the mothership, I never liked the idea of the unit to begin with. It feels far too much like a hero unit to me. I'd much rather have it in the "misc unit that doesn't see play in normal games but has the potential to pop up and be cool" sort of like the queen in SC1 or something. I personally don't want to see any single unit that causes such a game breaking effect on the game.
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On February 28 2010 12:23 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2010 07:18 Archerofaiur wrote:
The real funny thing is how many times has a Blizzard designer in an interview said something like "Were really trying to seperate the multiplayer experience from single player expeirence. They have different considerations and we want to make sure that the units/mechanics are appropriate for each."
Everytime I hear something like that I want to shout out "No you dont!!!!! If you did the mothership wouldnt be in multiplayer! That unit has got more singleplayer in it than Jim Raynor's vulture bike!" Why do it scream singleplayer? One race having a one at a time limited unit can lead to even more diverse matchups than what we got in sc1. I mean, who decided that you can't have one at a time units? The mothership is a quite good example of a well made one at a time unit, its abilities do scale very well with army sizes and it is nothing special in terms of combat strength per cost any longer. Basically it is a way to keep really strong spells in the game without making them spammable. And it is balanced since as I said since the motherships spells are just to support/disrupt the armies it is not like it is imbalanced with small amounts of units or worthless with large amounts of units.
Oh you mean really strong spells like this unit had?
![[image loading]](http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/11/10696/arbiterrender.jpg)
The mothership was from day one a "hero" unit. It was described in the opening trailer as the ultimate weapon. Since then it has fallen from superunit to fat arbiter and in the process lost almost everything impressive it started with. If you want to say that its still cool cause "hey its got 350 hitpoints and you can only make one" than fine. But from the perspective of a unit that was better suited for singleplayer (and NOT multiplayer) you wont find a better example than the Mothership.
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On February 28 2010 11:19 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2010 10:23 PGHammer wrote:
Why the Mothership got nerfed - because of those players that basically used it as a single-unit early rush (as opposed to the supersized Arbiter replacement it was supposed to be). Normally, you can't rush Protoss (because of the unit costs); however, the Mothership was rushable (because you only had to stock up somewhat on minerals + gas early; the only prereq is a Fleet Beacon). Never mind that you could (and still can) rush/spam Terrans and Zerg (especially Zerg). The thinking was "Proactive Protoss? Time to slow them down!"
Now, you pretty much would *only* use the Mothership (in the early game) as a defender (too expensive to use as a harass/rush unit by itself); then, once you build proper support (not just air units, like Void Rays and Phoenix, as well as a Carrier or two, but Stalkers, Immortals, Colossi, and possibly High/Dark Templars and Zealots), "counterattack".
There are still those that fear the idea of aggressive Protoss (even though, historically, the Protoss were VERY proactive pre-Tassadar, with the biggest example being Chau Sara). Aggressive Terrans or Zerg are fine, but proactive Protoss? Oh, heck no! It probably did have to do with mothership rushing, but more than just a lore issue of protoss being an aggressive race (if anything, Terran is the race that's supposed to be the most defensive) -- mothership rushing just doesn't seem interesting. There's not much micro to either side of the battle (the Protoss only has one unit to control, and the opponent only has one unit to fire at), and if, heaven forbid, there was a mirror match, it'd basically be a WC3 hero vs. hero fight.
Notice that I didn't say that you can't call in the Mothership early; if your opponent tends to rush, you SHOULD call for Mom as early as possible; however, because of the nerf, the call will be defensive/counter-rush, not to rush yourself.
The nerf also has the side-effect of making Protoss early-game rushes pretty much undoable (Stalkers and Colossi, either mixed or alone, are too expensive to build in groups and too INexpensive to counter; the situation with Void Rays or other air units is even worse). Zealots? Please; too expensive (more expensive than even Marines, let alone Zerglings, and nearly as expensive as Roaches).
I think that the Protoss just took the "most defensive" title away from the Terrans (especially with that big nerf); though patch 2 DID give Mom the Vortex back, the Mothership remains limited (by expense) to defense/counter-rush.
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can I download the patch somewhere? I can't connect with this incredibly stupid download-tracker. I've downloaded the Game from another Server and have a Betakey, but I can't find a place to download the patch - that's ridiculous!
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United States47024 Posts
On March 01 2010 04:37 PGHammer wrote:
The nerf also has the side-effect of making Protoss early-game rushes pretty much undoable (Stalkers and Colossi, either mixed or alone, are too expensive to build in groups and too INexpensive to counter; the situation with Void Rays or other air units is even worse). Zealots? Please; too expensive (more expensive than even Marines, let alone Zerglings, and nearly as expensive as Roaches).
You mean other than the fact that proxy 2gate works as well as it ever did?
Zealots costing more than Marines and Zerglings never stopped rushing before. DTs could work better, but not because of the unit itself, but the fact that the Dark Shrine is a retarded building that doesn't do anything.
Think about the rushes that exist in SC1 available to protoss:
Proxy 2gate - still works
DT Rush - Dark Shrine is a stupid building, if fixed then still works
Bulldog - technical enough that any equivalent wouldn't have been discovered yet
+1 speedzeal - timing dependent, equivalent wouldn't have been discovered yet
10/15 - success is map dependent, so equivalent may arise when map variety increases
3gate zeal - still works
4gate goon - designed to beat 2gate robo, so obviously without similar timing having been discovered, equivalent can't exist
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On February 28 2010 11:05 radiumz0rz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2010 06:11 PredY wrote:
people switching races because of patches are ridiculous - SERIOUSLY WTF?? its a fcking beta!! Well, being that a majority of American players right now are Protoss, this might balance out the races. People don't choose to play Protoss just because they love their look but it was easier to play Protoss than the other two races.
That is true because of the unique ability of Probes to start warping in a structure and *leave* to start warping in the next structure. If you want to build a base in a hurry, you need fifteen Zerg, or ten SCVs.
Or one Probe.
While Protoss have the highest material budgets for units and structures, they have the dead-lowest *beingpower* budget for structures. (Heck; if you know that it will take a while to rebuild your mineral/gas budget, you can send your construction Probe back to material-gathering after warping in the last building.)
That low beingpower budget offsets the high materiel cost for buildings and units and fits VERY well with the American Way. (It fits in just as well in the ROK, as the Protoss is just as popular among their top players of SC and BW.)
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can I download the patch somewhere? I can't connect with this incredibly stupid download-tracker. I've downloaded the Game from another Server and have a Betakey, but I can't find a place to download the patch - that's ridiculous!
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On March 01 2010 04:48 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2010 04:37 PGHammer wrote:
The nerf also has the side-effect of making Protoss early-game rushes pretty much undoable (Stalkers and Colossi, either mixed or alone, are too expensive to build in groups and too INexpensive to counter; the situation with Void Rays or other air units is even worse). Zealots? Please; too expensive (more expensive than even Marines, let alone Zerglings, and nearly as expensive as Roaches). You mean other than the fact that proxy 2gate works as well as it ever did? Zealots costing more than Marines and Zerglings never stopped rushing before. DTs could work better, but not because of the unit itself, but the fact that the Dark Shrine is a retarded building that doesn't do anything. Think about the rushes that exist in SC1 available to protoss: Proxy 2gate - still works DT Rush - Dark Shrine is a stupid building, if fixed then still works Bulldog - technical enough that any equivalent wouldn't have been discovered yet +1 speedzeal - timing dependent, equivalent wouldn't have been discovered yet 10/15 - success is map dependent, so equivalent may arise when map variety increases 3gate zeal - still works 4gate goon - designed to beat 2gate robo, so obviously without similar timing having been discovered, equivalent can't exist
You can't do as much damage with an all-Zealot rush as you can with Marines or Zerglings (let alone Roaches or Banelings) for their cost (and what are the Zealot counters; Marines, Roaches, Zerglings and Banelings) unless you upgrade to tier 2 or taller and hope your opposition didn't (highly unlikely, since the opposition counters can upgrade faster than you can due to lower unit cost). The Dark Shrine is a requirement for Dark Templar (and thus for Dark Archons as well); otherwise, they have the same abilities as their High Templar brethren (and get them at the Templar Archives) so it *has* a reason for being (Fleet Beacons do nothing, either; however, they are required for not just the Mothership, but Carriers require them as well). True; if DT had unique abilities that High Templars did not, the Dark Shrine would be the idea place to *research* them. As opposed to 4-gate Dragoon, you have 4-gate Stalker/Immortal (however, this is better with Warp Gates as opposed to Gateways, because of longer range).
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United States47024 Posts
On March 01 2010 12:04 PGHammer wrote:
You can't do as much damage with an all-Zealot rush as you can with Marines or Zerglings (let alone Roaches or Banelings) for their cost (and what are the Zealot counters; Marines, Roaches, Zerglings and Banelings) unless you upgrade to tier 2 or taller and hope your opposition didn't (highly unlikely, since the opposition counters can upgrade faster than you can due to lower unit cost). The Dark Shrine is a requirement for Dark Templar (and thus for Dark Archons as well); otherwise, they have the same abilities as their High Templar brethren (and get them at the Templar Archives) so it *has* a reason for being (Fleet Beacons do nothing, either; however, they are required for not just the Mothership, but Carriers require them as well). True; if DT had unique abilities that High Templars did not, the Dark Shrine would be the idea place to *research* them. As opposed to 4-gate Dragoon, you have 4-gate Stalker/Immortal (however, this is better with Warp Gates as opposed to Gateways, because of longer range).
Zealots beat zerglings before any upgrades come in, and proxy 2gate arrives before any zergling upgrades finish, and before you could possibly have Roaches or Banelings out. Marines only beat Zealots upgraded or with protection (wall-in or bunker)--at the early stage of the game, Marines get chewed up by Zealots. You need to pull SCVs, either to block the Zealots, or to repair your wall if you manage to finish it before 2gate hits.
Not sure why you're using the rest to argue how early DT and 4gate Stalker/Immortal aggression are viable, seeing as your previous post was just saying that Protoss can't be aggressive early.
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It's a scam with promising beta keys number 99999.
It can be one of those where he will ask a scan off your Id to proof your not making extra e-mails, but in fact he's gonna use that to scam you out of your b.net account/whatever
Or one of those where he will send a link to some kind of surveything he makes money off.
Whatever it may be I can assure you you won't be getting a key
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Wow there sure is a lot of whining in this thread. It's a BETA TEST!
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On March 01 2010 14:20 alexanderzero wrote:
Wow there sure is a lot of whining in this thread. It's a BETA TEST!
And why do we have Beta-tests? - For Balancing!
And how does Blizzard know what to balance? - from whining!
There u go....
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On March 01 2010 13:23 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2010 12:04 PGHammer wrote:
You can't do as much damage with an all-Zealot rush as you can with Marines or Zerglings (let alone Roaches or Banelings) for their cost (and what are the Zealot counters; Marines, Roaches, Zerglings and Banelings) unless you upgrade to tier 2 or taller and hope your opposition didn't (highly unlikely, since the opposition counters can upgrade faster than you can due to lower unit cost). The Dark Shrine is a requirement for Dark Templar (and thus for Dark Archons as well); otherwise, they have the same abilities as their High Templar brethren (and get them at the Templar Archives) so it *has* a reason for being (Fleet Beacons do nothing, either; however, they are required for not just the Mothership, but Carriers require them as well). True; if DT had unique abilities that High Templars did not, the Dark Shrine would be the idea place to *research* them. As opposed to 4-gate Dragoon, you have 4-gate Stalker/Immortal (however, this is better with Warp Gates as opposed to Gateways, because of longer range). Zealots beat zerglings before any upgrades come in, and proxy 2gate arrives before any zergling upgrades finish, and before you could possibly have Roaches or Banelings out. Marines only beat Zealots upgraded or with protection (wall-in or bunker)--at the early stage of the game, Marines get chewed up by Zealots. You need to pull SCVs, either to block the Zealots, or to repair your wall if you manage to finish it before 2gate hits. Not sure why you're using the rest to argue how early DT and 4gate Stalker/Immortal aggression are viable, seeing as your previous post was just saying that Protoss can't be aggressive early.
Immortals aren't available early (Stalkers are). And it takes serious time to build up a rushable Stalker/Zealot force (and research the L2 weapons/shielding for such a rush to work; meanwhile, the enemy is not likely to be twiddling their mouse, especially not if they are Zerg). Usually, if you're doing a mass of Stalkers early, you're doing *just* Stalkers, and fending off a Zergling/Roach/Baneling rush from the enemy (and if the Zerg have added Hydralisks or Infestors to the mix, you may well be screwed anyway, Stalkers or no Stalkers).
The Zerg pretty much are forced to push out for biological reasons (a Hatchery is *always* producing larvae, and at a faster rate than a CC produces SCVs/Nexus warps in Probes). If you luck out and the opponent is trying to bank minerals and gas for a midgame push (which actually makes sense if you are Protoss), you can out-expand him with little difficulty as long as you create enough Overlords to support additional Drone production (which means you'll also win the minerals/gas race and therefore be able to keep up with, if not actually beat, the enemy in terms of upgrades, as your upgrades are cheaper). If you try to rush early, and you are Protoss (PvZ) your only hope will be that the Zerg are trying to turtle; otherwise, your attempted push will get swamped under a wall of Zerglings, Roaches, Banelings, or all three. If you concentrated your resources on that push, you are then immediately vulnerable to a counterpush (especially if there are multiple Hatcheries).
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EPT
