EPTAutosurround
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
When you combine it with unlimited unit selection, attacking with zerglings/workers is just 1a click and watch for the next 20 seconds. | ||
Kinky
United States4126 Posts
It's also extremely weird when you have a control group of zerglings surround a zealot and the ones who can't get in on the circle just run around the other zerglings. | ||
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Gedrah
465 Posts
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Wr3k
Canada2533 Posts
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mmp
United States2130 Posts
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pachi
Melbourne5338 Posts
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404.Delirium
United States1190 Posts
Looks like you're just controlling the gist of your units; the blob of them. | ||
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meeple
Canada10211 Posts
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zee
201 Posts
On February 23 2010 03:35 Kinky wrote: I don't have the beta yet but judging from the streams, it does take a bit out of micro. It's also extremely weird when you have a control group of zerglings surround a zealot and the ones who can't get in on the circle just run around the other zerglings. Uhm im 99 percent sure that happens in sc1 as well. Or the zerglings that cant get around attack the closest enemy target. | ||
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UmmTheHobo
United States650 Posts
On February 23 2010 04:27 404.Delirium wrote: So I take it no more ridiculously exciting Zealot vs Zealot micro/pulling wars? =( Looks like you're just controlling the gist of your units; the blob of them. You can still pull your units out, its not like you can't control your units anymore. | ||
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LunarC
United States1186 Posts
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
On February 23 2010 04:54 LunarC wrote: Is auto surround still in the game? I guess this is part of Blizzard's attempt to make the game more accessible, but I honestly can't see how a function that interferes with unit control can possibly be good for high level competitive play. I'm not sure that the stem of the problem has to do with AI taking control away from the player, but rather more to do with smarter unit pathing and lower collision sizes. | ||
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LunarC
United States1186 Posts
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Gedrah
465 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
On February 23 2010 03:24 Plexa wrote: What are peoples thoughts on this? It certainly takes the fun out of melee battles and makes speedlings ridiculously good. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing just yet. It also makes charing zealots insanely good as they make a pretty good wall and it's hard to get off a surround. against a large number of zealots because they auto spread out. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On February 23 2010 03:24 Plexa wrote: What are peoples thoughts on this? It certainly takes the fun out of melee battles and makes speedlings ridculously good. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing just yet. From the streams it looks more like a difference than a bad change. Now it's a bit easier to micro Zealots you can focus on using your sentries correctly and focus firing with your stalkers. In SC1 even top players couldn't handle microing units and spellcasters at the same time so spellcasters such as DAs and Queens became sidelined. This is just a switch in priorities. In small numbers micro still helps a lot. If you watch the Nony vs Dayvie game Nony does a great job of microing Zealots against Dayvie's lings and Roaches. It's just in larger numbers players won't need to babysit their melee units so much. | ||
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crate
United States2474 Posts
If I tell my zerglings to attack something, I want as many of them attacking as soon as possible and this is what the new pathing/"autosurround" does, whereas in SC1 they get in each others' way so you have to do something counterintuitive to get them to attack properly (run your lings halfway past the target). It's hardly perfect from what I've seen, but a hell of a lot better than just having all the lings try to beeline to attack position and then half of them not get there. | ||
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keepITup
251 Posts
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Xirt
Scotland52 Posts
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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LunarC
United States1186 Posts
On February 23 2010 06:52 Gedrah wrote: Because that's a stupid arbitrary limitation that has no good motivation and doesn't improve control in any way. You're still free to put 24 units on YOUR hotkeys, but I'm going to put 30+ on mine. And I don't find it a miserable struggle. Microing single units to keep them alive longer or microing your army to improve surround's effect on battles is still possible. Play the game more before you're so sure it needs to change, is my mouthy little bit of advice. I think it's great :X Of course it's not a miserable struggle to assign all of the units you own and the buildings too to one hotkey. It sounds really easy. I wish Blizzard would at least make it impossible to select buildings and units simultaneously... | ||
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pyrogenetix
China5098 Posts
but it does sound like it's better for macro players and worse for micro players. macro players want to a-move their lings in and then build more micro players want to run around picking at things and keep lings alive just like a lot of other things *coughdareimentionthiswithoutashitstormmbsautominecough* I think giving the ability to toggle is what is best. tournaments will of course have set rules so it doesn't affect high level, and the average casual gamer can still use it if he wishes. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
Say you have a bunch of clumped up zealots against an ultralisk. First three zealots charge at it and start whacking at the zerg unit. What will the remaining zealots do? There's only two possibilities: a. Collide ineffectually with each other until the player gets them 'unstuck' before they engage the ultralisk, or b. Go around their fellow zealots automatically and engage the enemy Option b. is what happens in Starcraft 2, and it's not because of an 'autosurround AI'; it's the logical consequence of improved pathing. If you can't reach an enemy because your own units are blocking, then you'll go around over to the nearest opening where there aren't any allied units blocking- the direct consequence of this is that if you have enough units, you will start surrounding the enemy, because that's the only way to get enough 'surface area' of contact with the enemy to get as many melee units into melee range as possible. You literally cannot remove autosurround from SC2 without making unit pathing dumber, so let's get right down to the core of the issue: should unit pathing be made dumber in SC2? | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
i never really seen any automatical surrounds, not quite sure what u guys r talking about :< edit: read some more and basically auto surround means that they move around their own units to get to the attack faster rather than freezing up like they do in sc1 for about a second? it sounds like a good feature and is only logical to a modern game o,o | ||
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LunarC
United States1186 Posts
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ZenDeX
Philippines2916 Posts
On February 23 2010 07:50 Zato-1 wrote: [...] You literally cannot remove autosurround from SC2 without making unit pathing dumber, so let's get right down to the core of the issue: should unit pathing be made dumber in SC2? This should be quoted in the OP. | ||
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IskatuMesk
Canada969 Posts
Modders and mappers are going to absolutely love the pathing in this game. It handles 800 units just perfectly. It's like liquid motion. I hope they don't break it, they just need to make some collision sizes a bit bigger. | ||
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caution.slip
United States775 Posts
On February 23 2010 07:50 Zato-1 wrote: I've said this many times, and I'll say it again. Say you have a bunch of clumped up zealots against an ultralisk. First three zealots charge at it and start whacking at the zerg unit. What will the remaining zealots do? There's only two possibilities: a. Collide ineffectually with each other until the player gets them 'unstuck' before they engage the ultralisk, or b. Go around their fellow zealots automatically and engage the enemy Option b. is what happens in Starcraft 2, and it's not because of an 'autosurround AI'; it's the logical consequence of improved pathing. If you can't reach an enemy because your own units are blocking, then you'll go around over to the nearest opening where there aren't any allied units blocking- the direct consequence of this is that if you have enough units, you will start surrounding the enemy, because that's the only way to get enough 'surface area' of contact with the enemy to get as many melee units into melee range as possible. You literally cannot remove autosurround from SC2 without making unit pathing dumber, so let's get right down to the core of the issue: should unit pathing be made dumber in SC2? Pretty much. And no, it should not be dumber. Dumb goons and goliaths is all the reason why it should stay the way it is | ||
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Z-R0E
United States147 Posts
Like Klive5ive said, I think this will just be different. Not necessarily right nor wrong, good nor bad. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
Also units acquire targets differently in this game and it just doesn't feel right. Another thing that bugs me is you can nuzzle up next to an idle worker and expect him to attack you so you hit him and it doesn't run away. this age old trick is gone. | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On February 23 2010 06:54 Virtue wrote: It also makes charing zealots insanely good as they make a pretty good wall and it's hard to get off a surround. against a large number of zealots because they auto spread out. I think we can generalise this to any fast melee unit is super powerful with autosurround! On February 23 2010 04:23 pachi wrote: I hate auto surround. it makes it impossible to retreat half my unis because they automatically super run at my opponents T_T Yea I often feel that retreat is hardly worth it most of the time due to this =[ | ||
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Redunzl
862 Posts
On February 23 2010 04:52 meeple wrote: It might turn out that at lower levels its good but at higher levels you need to micro to combat the autosurround... like splitting up your units or during ling battles perhaps? | ||
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