EPTDavid Kim vs Liquid`Tyler (aka NonY) - Page 7
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rest_less
Germany142 Posts
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SD-Spirit
Poland31 Posts
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madcow305
United States152 Posts
On February 20 2010 17:44 bizold wrote: Zerg rolls over this with Corruptor/Baneling. Cheaper min/gas cost than zealot/colossus (keep in mind, sentries are 100 gas) and gives you room to add in things like roaches, hydras, or some extra lings/expos. Banelings do a massive amount of damage to zealot based armies, and the zerglings sweep up whatever is left. Are Corrupters able to cast spells while burrowed? If not, wouldn't the huge range of Colossi kill them before they got a good sized ensnare off? And, even if they can cast while burrowed, a simply observer reveals them, and Colossi focus-fire would kill them. Sentries could use their wall to block off incoming Banelings. EDIT: Just checked SC2 Armory. Banelings have 30 HP. One sweep of a Colossus' lasers kills any caught in the AOE. A decent-sized Colossus force could hold off dozens of Banelings, unless they get a very wide surround on them. Also, lol I though you meant Infestors in your post. I forgot air units can hit the Colossus. In that case, simply build anti-air, preferably Phoenixes that can't be killed by Banelings, or Stalkers that don't take bonus damage from Banelings. Place your anti-air in front of your Colossi, and mow down the Corrupters while the Colossi mow down the Banelings. On February 20 2010 19:34 SD-Spirit wrote: after viewing this rep and few others i am starting to worry about the fact that protos has completely NO ANTI AIR. literely nothing You're joking, right? Stalkers rape Corrupters. Phoenixes should kill Mutas, Archons kill both, Sentries also kill both. | ||
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otmar
Australia11 Posts
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SD-Spirit
Poland31 Posts
If terran makes like 3-4 BC - its game. i saw a guy trying to counter this first with about 10 stalkers - they just wanished - one bc lost like 80%of helth - then he reinforce with like 6-8 phoenixes and they just died in seconds. one bc died thats all. And that suppose to be the best protoses anti-air counters ? Also i do not tink that archons are such a good counter against mutas now - mutas are no longer flying around stuck toghther, and building placement will always be a problem for archons to move around. Protoss needs some good ground to air counter - but there is none so far i guess. | ||
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FastEddieV
United States614 Posts
On February 20 2010 19:03 rest_less wrote: who the hell is david kim?? I love European sarcasm! DAVID KIM!!! He doesn't even need 3 names to be a bonjwa, that's how sick he is. | ||
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geno
United States1404 Posts
On February 20 2010 19:39 otmar wrote: I noticed after you killed his main it revealed the map to you.. but he actually ended up wining with the mutas.. I can see this being a problem if you have a close game where the win comes down to units the left, or you perhaps need to hide a building to destroy you opponents base first. I really like this feature in low end games to prevent hiding buildings and whatnot, but yeah when this game gets really competitive I hope its not going to be there. Competitive players will gg (or in certain cases, just leave) when its clear the games over, there would be no benefit in revealing buildings. There would be negatives though, particularly in tricky base-trading games. edit: just thought of the perfect example. Savior vs TT on Neo Requiem. How anti-climactic would that game have been. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On February 20 2010 19:55 SD-Spirit wrote: Phonixes are very week. They do not kill mutas at all, maby when in overhelming number. If terran makes like 3-4 BC - its game. i saw a guy trying to counter this first with about 10 stalkers - they just wanished - one bc lost like 80%of helth - then he reinforce with like 6-8 phoenixes and they just died in seconds. one bc died thats all. And that suppose to be the best protoses anti-air counters ? Also i do not tink that archons are such a good counter against mutas now - mutas are no longer flying around stuck toghther, and building placement will always be a problem for archons to move around. Protoss needs some good ground to air counter - but there is none so far i guess. You're not taking into account unit and attack type. Mutalisk is a light flyer and Pheonix does +5 to light units. Pheonix 120hp 60 shield 5 (+5 to light) * 2 = 20 dmg to mutas Range 4 Muta 120hp 9 dmg to pheonix + extra hits. Range 3 So the pheonix should be strong against mutas (but awful against BCs like you guessed) | ||
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
in SC1 muta are a staple unit for zerg and building a stargate plus corsairs has become standard, but right now don't zerg also have banelings and roaches as? It seems like a simple tech switch would be really hard on toss, forcing him to spam cannons or pheonixes *This is pure theory-crafting! I DO NOT have the beta. edit: like, getting a stargate and then builidng multiple Pheonixes would take way longer than building a spire and hatching muta...i guess the toss could do it as part of his build preemptively..but that just seems super clumsy to me.. | ||
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
his APM? did he play SC (or ICCup) lately? | ||
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otmar
Australia11 Posts
On February 20 2010 20:05 geno wrote: I really like this feature in low end games to prevent hiding buildings and whatnot, but yeah when this game gets really competitive I hope its not going to be there. Competitive players will gg (or in certain cases, just leave) when its clear the games over, there would be no benefit in revealing buildings. There would be negatives though, particularly in tricky base-trading games. edit: just thought of the perfect example. Savior vs TT on Neo Requiem. How anti-climactic would that game have been. I agree with you.. Hopefully someone forwards that on to blizz. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On February 20 2010 20:22 ShaperofDreams wrote: Getting a stargate and 3 or 4 Pheonix's seems to be super clumsy though, compared to the zerg just putting down a spire and being able to hatch as many muta as possible. in SC1 muta are a staple unit for zerg and building a stargate plus corsairs has become standard, but right now don't zerg also have banelings and roaches as? It seems like a simple tech switch would be really hard on toss, forcing him to spam cannons or pheonixes *This is pure theory-crafting! I DO NOT have the beta. edit: like, getting a stargate and then builidng multiple Pheonixes would take way longer than building a spire and hatching muta...i guess the toss could do it as part of his build preemptively..but that just seems super clumsy to me.. Well you can still use the pheonix to kill overlords, or you can lift the queen into the air and kill that to seriously hurt their macro. With Hydralisks not coming til after Lair Zerg is a bit low on AA too. Considering how you have to upgrade overlords before they can detect I would imagine that a transistion into pheonix-dt would be a strong strategy. | ||
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
On February 20 2010 19:39 otmar wrote: I noticed after you killed his main it revealed the map to you.. but he actually ended up wining with the mutas.. I can see this being a problem if you have a close game where the win comes down to units the left, or you perhaps need to hide a building to destroy you opponents base first. I agree. The feature should be toggle-able at the very least so that competitive tournaments can be held without it. | ||
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KingHillBilly
United States105 Posts
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/196492/khb-Vs-Dayvie-PvT-Steppes-1-SC2Replay.html  Enjoy! | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On February 20 2010 16:00 madcow305 wrote: HT may be weaker, but Colossi seem way, way more powerful than Reavers. They're faster, have similar dps, similar range when Colossi range is upgraded, can walk up walls, and rape worker lines much better than Reavers did, since one sweep of their lasers melts numerous drones and probes, while SCVs require 2 sweeps to kill. Their lasers also don't bug out the way Scarabs do. Colossi are also at a similar place on the tech tree that HT are in SC2 and SC1. Add to this the fact that HT and DT now require separate tech buildings, and Colossi seem to be a much stronger option for Protoss anti-ground than HT were in SC1. Zealot + Colossi are comparable to SC1's Zealot + Dragoon + HT, in that both unit compositions have melee damage soakers, ranged damage dealers, and AOE. The difference is, Colossi don't require energy to do ranged AOE damage, but they cost a lot. Add in 2 or 3 Sentries for their damage-reducing shield, and it doesn't seem like Zerg has a ground unit composition that can beat Zealot + Sentry + Colossus. Old Ultraling would have lings get melted by Colossus, and then Ultras would be left alone vs. the Protoss army. Hydralisks suck vs. Zealots. Roaches suck vs. Colossus. what? do hydras really suck vs zealots in sc2? I can't really imagine that as long as you have a decent amount of hydras. On February 20 2010 20:59 KingHillBilly wrote: Hmm. I have a replay against davyie too. http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/196492/khb-Vs-Dayvie-PvT-Steppes-1-SC2Replay.html Enjoy! thx, gonna watch this now | ||
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zee
201 Posts
On February 20 2010 19:34 SD-Spirit wrote: after viewing this rep and few others i am starting to worry about the fact that protos has completely NO ANTI AIR. literely nothing + Show Spoiler + No. Nony didnt see david went mutas, thus didnt have time to build or tech to anti air. | ||
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Duckvillelol
Australia1259 Posts
On February 20 2010 22:05 zee wrote: No. Nony didnt see david went mutas, thus didnt have time to build or tech to anti air. You should probably spoiler that | ||
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Rufio
241 Posts
On February 20 2010 20:59 KingHillBilly wrote: Hmm. I have a replay against davyie too. http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/196492/khb-Vs-Dayvie-PvT-Steppes-1-SC2Replay.html Enjoy! I haven't seen it yet but after watching you Livestream for a couple of hours I'm guessing you defeated him. By the way, when are you livestreaming again? | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
I guess phoenixes are REALLY good against banshees, David Kim was afraid to attack one phoenix when he had 4 banshees to do so. I hope that doesnt mean that mutalisks suck as soon as protoss has a pheonix | ||
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