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David Kim vs Liquid`Tyler (aka NonY) - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
210 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 11 Next All
iMate
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada263 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-20 06:14:25
February 20 2010 06:13 GMT
#101
nvm..
madcow305
Profile Joined January 2010
United States152 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-20 06:17:44
February 20 2010 06:14 GMT
#102
I checked up SC2 Armory, and unless their info is wrong, these units are good against Mutas and Corrupters:

Phoenix, Archon.

Phoenix does + damage to light armor, which Mutas are. Mutas and Corrupters deal normal damage back to it, since it's light armor. Corrupters don't get the + bonus damage.

Archons do + damage to biological units, which Mutas and Corrupters both are. Mutas deal normal damage back to it, and Corrupters can't target it. It also has an AOE.

Of course, this doesn't take into account health and damage per resource spent, so maybe Mutas are still good because they're more resource efficient than Archons and Phoenixes.

Also, Nony's build didn't incorporate Templar tech, or Starports, so neither were an option for him in that game .

Oh, and here are the SC2 Armory profiles for all the related units:

http://www.sc2armory.com/game/protoss/units/archon
http://www.sc2armory.com/game/protoss/units/phoenix
http://www.sc2armory.com/game/zerg/units/corruptor
http://www.sc2armory.com/game/zerg/units/mutalisk

EDIT: Was digging around some more, and apparently sentries deal bonus damage to biological units, and they can target air units. They might be a good counter for Mutas in a Zealot+Colossus build. Then again, they do only have 40 HP and 40 shields............
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
February 20 2010 06:20 GMT
#103
They would also give a 2+ armor boost vs the mutas attacks... However, 100 gas is quite a lot if you are already going colossii :S
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
madcow305
Profile Joined January 2010
United States152 Posts
February 20 2010 06:26 GMT
#104
On February 20 2010 15:20 FrozenArbiter wrote:
They would also give a 2+ armor boost vs the mutas attacks... However, 100 gas is quite a lot if you are already going colossii :S


Zealot + Sentries then? What counters those? Are Zealots with Charge backed up by the Sentry's armor buff still bad against Roaches with speed upgrade?
Moletrap
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States1297 Posts
February 20 2010 06:26 GMT
#105
Btw, Diggity did a commentary of this game already. Wow, that was a great match...

+ Show Spoiler [youtube vids] +

Part 1:



Part 2:



aka Moletrap
heroyi
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1064 Posts
February 20 2010 06:45 GMT
#106
omg way too close of a call lmao.fucking mutas.

i was wondering how the HT are. i hear they reduced the dmg of the storm and reduced the range the ht can cast them.

i really wanna play toss, but if protoss is still weak then terran i go.
wat wat in my pants
madcow305
Profile Joined January 2010
United States152 Posts
February 20 2010 07:00 GMT
#107
On February 20 2010 15:45 heroyi wrote:
omg way too close of a call lmao.fucking mutas.

i was wondering how the HT are. i hear they reduced the dmg of the storm and reduced the range the ht can cast them.

i really wanna play toss, but if protoss is still weak then terran i go.


HT may be weaker, but Colossi seem way, way more powerful than Reavers.

They're faster, have similar dps, similar range when Colossi range is upgraded, can walk up walls, and rape worker lines much better than Reavers did, since one sweep of their lasers melts numerous drones and probes, while SCVs require 2 sweeps to kill. Their lasers also don't bug out the way Scarabs do.

Colossi are also at a similar place on the tech tree that HT are in SC2 and SC1.

Add to this the fact that HT and DT now require separate tech buildings, and Colossi seem to be a much stronger option for Protoss anti-ground than HT were in SC1.

Zealot + Colossi are comparable to SC1's Zealot + Dragoon + HT, in that both unit compositions have melee damage soakers, ranged damage dealers, and AOE. The difference is, Colossi don't require energy to do ranged AOE damage, but they cost a lot.

Add in 2 or 3 Sentries for their damage-reducing shield, and it doesn't seem like Zerg has a ground unit composition that can beat Zealot + Sentry + Colossus. Old Ultraling would have lings get melted by Colossus, and then Ultras would be left alone vs. the Protoss army. Hydralisks suck vs. Zealots. Roaches suck vs. Colossus.
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
February 20 2010 07:01 GMT
#108
On February 20 2010 15:45 heroyi wrote:
omg way too close of a call lmao.fucking mutas.

i was wondering how the HT are. i hear they reduced the dmg of the storm and reduced the range the ht can cast them.

i really wanna play toss, but if protoss is still weak then terran i go.

toss is hardly weak you should watch to the end compared how many roaches he loses vs the zealots. colossus tears zerg ground up.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-20 07:10:16
February 20 2010 07:07 GMT
#109
On February 20 2010 15:26 madcow305 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2010 15:20 FrozenArbiter wrote:
They would also give a 2+ armor boost vs the mutas attacks... However, 100 gas is quite a lot if you are already going colossii :S


Zealot + Sentries then? What counters those? Are Zealots with Charge backed up by the Sentry's armor buff still bad against Roaches with speed upgrade?

I'm not sure you could kill them if they have burrow? + If he mixed in banelings he'd basically rape your entire army I think.

But I haven't tested this, so it's worth trying :O It's an interesting mix for sure.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
heroyi
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1064 Posts
February 20 2010 07:21 GMT
#110
On February 20 2010 16:00 madcow305 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2010 15:45 heroyi wrote:
omg way too close of a call lmao.fucking mutas.

i was wondering how the HT are. i hear they reduced the dmg of the storm and reduced the range the ht can cast them.

i really wanna play toss, but if protoss is still weak then terran i go.


HT may be weaker, but Colossi seem way, way more powerful than Reavers.

They're faster, have similar dps, similar range when Colossi range is upgraded, can walk up walls, and rape worker lines much better than Reavers did, since one sweep of their lasers melts numerous drones and probes, while SCVs require 2 sweeps to kill. Their lasers also don't bug out the way Scarabs do.

Colossi are also at a similar place on the tech tree that HT are in SC2 and SC1.

Add to this the fact that HT and DT now require separate tech buildings, and Colossi seem to be a much stronger option for Protoss anti-ground than HT were in SC1.

Zealot + Colossi are comparable to SC1's Zealot + Dragoon + HT, in that both unit compositions have melee damage soakers, ranged damage dealers, and AOE. The difference is, Colossi don't require energy to do ranged AOE damage, but they cost a lot.

Add in 2 or 3 Sentries for their damage-reducing shield, and it doesn't seem like Zerg has a ground unit composition that can beat Zealot + Sentry + Colossus. Old Ultraling would have lings get melted by Colossus, and then Ultras would be left alone vs. the Protoss army. Hydralisks suck vs. Zealots. Roaches suck vs. Colossus.


well i mean the colossi is one of the reasons why i wanna try toss now but how does toss counter mutas which poses so much problem for toss...

idk once everyone gets their hand on the copy im sure my questions will be answered and new questions will arise.

wat wat in my pants
Islandsnake
Profile Joined April 2009
United States679 Posts
February 20 2010 07:32 GMT
#111
Stalkers can work vs mutas you just need more than 3 X_X
Bang!
amanet
Profile Joined December 2007
Croatia334 Posts
February 20 2010 07:47 GMT
#112
mutasss hehe
saritenite
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Singapore1680 Posts
February 20 2010 07:55 GMT
#113
On February 20 2010 16:32 Islandsnake wrote:
Stalkers can work vs mutas you just need more than 3 X_X


He had 4. Tyler is there any way to micro those stalkers? Or is the mechanics really set that we cannot find new tricks along the way?
madcow305
Profile Joined January 2010
United States152 Posts
February 20 2010 08:21 GMT
#114
On February 20 2010 16:32 Islandsnake wrote:
Stalkers can work vs mutas you just need more than 3 X_X


That's like saying Dragoons work against Mutas in SC1, you just need a ton of Dragoons.

Stalkers don't deal bonus damage vs Mutas, they're for attacking armored targets.
Goragoth
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
New Zealand1065 Posts
February 20 2010 08:22 GMT
#115
Just watched the cast Diggity made of the game. Lots of fun to watch. Too bad that observer missed the Spire by one tile.
Creator of LoLTool.
Wings
Profile Joined January 2010
United States999 Posts
February 20 2010 08:36 GMT
#116
lol wow. Nony lost because of literally 1 cm, david kim the bonjwa was LUCKY as hell. if his observer was just 1 cm lower, he would have spotted the spire, but he didn't, and so lost to mutas... close game!
The probability of Kim Carrier getting all those predictions wrong is similar to the probability Flash loses a TvT. Kim Carrier MUST BE a genius. His only big mistake... STORK.
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9103 Posts
February 20 2010 08:38 GMT
#117
On February 20 2010 13:05 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
david kim is very lucky i dont have a beta key

and so are you, mister liquid`nony


WHATTT... steve I thought you were like the boss of TL.
bizold
Profile Joined May 2009
United States8 Posts
February 20 2010 08:44 GMT
#118
On February 20 2010 16:00 madcow305 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2010 15:45 heroyi wrote:
omg way too close of a call lmao.fucking mutas.

i was wondering how the HT are. i hear they reduced the dmg of the storm and reduced the range the ht can cast them.

i really wanna play toss, but if protoss is still weak then terran i go.


HT may be weaker, but Colossi seem way, way more powerful than Reavers.

They're faster, have similar dps, similar range when Colossi range is upgraded, can walk up walls, and rape worker lines much better than Reavers did, since one sweep of their lasers melts numerous drones and probes, while SCVs require 2 sweeps to kill. Their lasers also don't bug out the way Scarabs do.

Colossi are also at a similar place on the tech tree that HT are in SC2 and SC1.

Add to this the fact that HT and DT now require separate tech buildings, and Colossi seem to be a much stronger option for Protoss anti-ground than HT were in SC1.

Zealot + Colossi are comparable to SC1's Zealot + Dragoon + HT, in that both unit compositions have melee damage soakers, ranged damage dealers, and AOE. The difference is, Colossi don't require energy to do ranged AOE damage, but they cost a lot.

Add in 2 or 3 Sentries for their damage-reducing shield, and it doesn't seem like Zerg has a ground unit composition that can beat Zealot + Sentry + Colossus. Old Ultraling would have lings get melted by Colossus, and then Ultras would be left alone vs. the Protoss army. Hydralisks suck vs. Zealots. Roaches suck vs. Colossus.


Zerg rolls over this with Corruptor/Baneling. Cheaper min/gas cost than zealot/colossus (keep in mind, sentries are 100 gas) and gives you room to add in things like roaches, hydras, or some extra lings/expos. Banelings do a massive amount of damage to zealot based armies, and the zerglings sweep up whatever is left.
jhNz
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Germany2762 Posts
February 20 2010 09:20 GMT
#119
i watched the game on youtube now and it was a pretty unlucky game for you tyler... your obs was still in his base when he started the spire but it was slightly to far in the top of it.

anyways, nice game definitly one of the best i've seen so far.
http://twitter.com/jhNz
L_Master
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8017 Posts
February 20 2010 09:46 GMT
#120
Was David Kim aware of who he was playing? I i'm guessing so, but going by Nony's stream he is usuing just Tyler, so its possible someone might miss the connection.
EffOrt and Soulkey Hwaiting!
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