EPTDavid Kim vs Liquid`Tyler (aka NonY) - Page 6
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iMate
Canada263 Posts
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madcow305
United States152 Posts
Phoenix, Archon. Phoenix does + damage to light armor, which Mutas are. Mutas and Corrupters deal normal damage back to it, since it's light armor. Corrupters don't get the + bonus damage. Archons do + damage to biological units, which Mutas and Corrupters both are. Mutas deal normal damage back to it, and Corrupters can't target it. It also has an AOE. Of course, this doesn't take into account health and damage per resource spent, so maybe Mutas are still good because they're more resource efficient than Archons and Phoenixes. Also, Nony's build didn't incorporate Templar tech, or Starports, so neither were an option for him in that game  .Oh, and here are the SC2 Armory profiles for all the related units: http://www.sc2armory.com/game/protoss/units/archon http://www.sc2armory.com/game/protoss/units/phoenix http://www.sc2armory.com/game/zerg/units/corruptor http://www.sc2armory.com/game/zerg/units/mutalisk EDIT: Was digging around some more, and apparently sentries deal bonus damage to biological units, and they can target air units. They might be a good counter for Mutas in a Zealot+Colossus build. Then again, they do only have 40 HP and 40 shields............ | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
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madcow305
United States152 Posts
On February 20 2010 15:20 FrozenArbiter wrote: They would also give a 2+ armor boost vs the mutas attacks... However, 100 gas is quite a lot if you are already going colossii :S Zealot + Sentries then? What counters those? Are Zealots with Charge backed up by the Sentry's armor buff still bad against Roaches with speed upgrade? | ||
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Moletrap
United States1297 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [youtube vids] + Part 1: Part 2: | ||
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heroyi
United States1064 Posts
i was wondering how the HT are. i hear they reduced the dmg of the storm and reduced the range the ht can cast them. i really wanna play toss, but if protoss is still weak then terran i go. | ||
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madcow305
United States152 Posts
On February 20 2010 15:45 heroyi wrote: omg way too close of a call lmao.fucking mutas. i was wondering how the HT are. i hear they reduced the dmg of the storm and reduced the range the ht can cast them. i really wanna play toss, but if protoss is still weak then terran i go. HT may be weaker, but Colossi seem way, way more powerful than Reavers. They're faster, have similar dps, similar range when Colossi range is upgraded, can walk up walls, and rape worker lines much better than Reavers did, since one sweep of their lasers melts numerous drones and probes, while SCVs require 2 sweeps to kill. Their lasers also don't bug out the way Scarabs do. Colossi are also at a similar place on the tech tree that HT are in SC2 and SC1. Add to this the fact that HT and DT now require separate tech buildings, and Colossi seem to be a much stronger option for Protoss anti-ground than HT were in SC1. Zealot + Colossi are comparable to SC1's Zealot + Dragoon + HT, in that both unit compositions have melee damage soakers, ranged damage dealers, and AOE. The difference is, Colossi don't require energy to do ranged AOE damage, but they cost a lot. Add in 2 or 3 Sentries for their damage-reducing shield, and it doesn't seem like Zerg has a ground unit composition that can beat Zealot + Sentry + Colossus. Old Ultraling would have lings get melted by Colossus, and then Ultras would be left alone vs. the Protoss army. Hydralisks suck vs. Zealots. Roaches suck vs. Colossus. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On February 20 2010 15:45 heroyi wrote: omg way too close of a call lmao.fucking mutas. i was wondering how the HT are. i hear they reduced the dmg of the storm and reduced the range the ht can cast them. i really wanna play toss, but if protoss is still weak then terran i go. toss is hardly weak you should watch to the end compared how many roaches he loses vs the zealots. colossus tears zerg ground up. | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On February 20 2010 15:26 madcow305 wrote: Zealot + Sentries then? What counters those? Are Zealots with Charge backed up by the Sentry's armor buff still bad against Roaches with speed upgrade? I'm not sure you could kill them if they have burrow? + If he mixed in banelings he'd basically rape your entire army I think. But I haven't tested this, so it's worth trying :O It's an interesting mix for sure. | ||
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heroyi
United States1064 Posts
On February 20 2010 16:00 madcow305 wrote: HT may be weaker, but Colossi seem way, way more powerful than Reavers. They're faster, have similar dps, similar range when Colossi range is upgraded, can walk up walls, and rape worker lines much better than Reavers did, since one sweep of their lasers melts numerous drones and probes, while SCVs require 2 sweeps to kill. Their lasers also don't bug out the way Scarabs do. Colossi are also at a similar place on the tech tree that HT are in SC2 and SC1. Add to this the fact that HT and DT now require separate tech buildings, and Colossi seem to be a much stronger option for Protoss anti-ground than HT were in SC1. Zealot + Colossi are comparable to SC1's Zealot + Dragoon + HT, in that both unit compositions have melee damage soakers, ranged damage dealers, and AOE. The difference is, Colossi don't require energy to do ranged AOE damage, but they cost a lot. Add in 2 or 3 Sentries for their damage-reducing shield, and it doesn't seem like Zerg has a ground unit composition that can beat Zealot + Sentry + Colossus. Old Ultraling would have lings get melted by Colossus, and then Ultras would be left alone vs. the Protoss army. Hydralisks suck vs. Zealots. Roaches suck vs. Colossus. well i mean the colossi is one of the reasons why i wanna try toss now but how does toss counter mutas which poses so much problem for toss... idk once everyone gets their hand on the copy im sure my questions will be answered and new questions will arise. | ||
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Islandsnake
United States679 Posts
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amanet
Croatia334 Posts
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saritenite
Singapore1680 Posts
On February 20 2010 16:32 Islandsnake wrote: Stalkers can work vs mutas you just need more than 3 X_X He had 4. Tyler is there any way to micro those stalkers? Or is the mechanics really set that we cannot find new tricks along the way? | ||
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madcow305
United States152 Posts
On February 20 2010 16:32 Islandsnake wrote: Stalkers can work vs mutas you just need more than 3 X_X That's like saying Dragoons work against Mutas in SC1, you just need a ton of Dragoons. Stalkers don't deal bonus damage vs Mutas, they're for attacking armored targets. | ||
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Goragoth
New Zealand1065 Posts
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Wings
United States999 Posts
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Jonoman92
United States9101 Posts
On February 20 2010 13:05 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: david kim is very lucky i dont have a beta key and so are you, mister liquid`nony WHATTT... steve I thought you were like the boss of TL. | ||
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bizold
United States8 Posts
On February 20 2010 16:00 madcow305 wrote: HT may be weaker, but Colossi seem way, way more powerful than Reavers. They're faster, have similar dps, similar range when Colossi range is upgraded, can walk up walls, and rape worker lines much better than Reavers did, since one sweep of their lasers melts numerous drones and probes, while SCVs require 2 sweeps to kill. Their lasers also don't bug out the way Scarabs do. Colossi are also at a similar place on the tech tree that HT are in SC2 and SC1. Add to this the fact that HT and DT now require separate tech buildings, and Colossi seem to be a much stronger option for Protoss anti-ground than HT were in SC1. Zealot + Colossi are comparable to SC1's Zealot + Dragoon + HT, in that both unit compositions have melee damage soakers, ranged damage dealers, and AOE. The difference is, Colossi don't require energy to do ranged AOE damage, but they cost a lot. Add in 2 or 3 Sentries for their damage-reducing shield, and it doesn't seem like Zerg has a ground unit composition that can beat Zealot + Sentry + Colossus. Old Ultraling would have lings get melted by Colossus, and then Ultras would be left alone vs. the Protoss army. Hydralisks suck vs. Zealots. Roaches suck vs. Colossus. Zerg rolls over this with Corruptor/Baneling. Cheaper min/gas cost than zealot/colossus (keep in mind, sentries are 100 gas) and gives you room to add in things like roaches, hydras, or some extra lings/expos. Banelings do a massive amount of damage to zealot based armies, and the zerglings sweep up whatever is left. | ||
jhNz
Germany2762 Posts
anyways, nice game definitly one of the best i've seen so far. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
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