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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
1. The mechanic affects ALL aspects of macromanagement and not just one specific area like Proton Charge did. This in itself causes it to have a lot of targetting tension, since the player must decide and balance between increased economic growth, increased unit production and accelerated tech. PC (via increased minerals) increased economic growth, unit production, supply, etc... | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
It was "Click here to get more money!!!!", like a damn pop-up ad. I mean, with this mechanic you have to decide what you are going to boost, that opens up WAAAAAY more options. | ||
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nodule
Canada931 Posts
the psychout potential of this is amazing | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
I would have thought it would make FE easier. You can now 12 Nex much easier against zerg because your forge and cannons will build much quicker. Not only that, it becomes a much more powerful build because you now have 2 time warps at your disposal. (assuming that there is no research required) | ||
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On February 13 2010 11:13 FrozenArbiter wrote: Archer, I haven't read the entire thread but are you seriously saying you liked the old mechanic better? FA please I have enough people missinterpreting me. I dont just blanket statement mechanics. I look at what makes them what they are. I dissect what works and what doesnt. Their were good and bad parts about Proton Charge. There are good and bad parts about TW. I analyze mechanics. The things that people like about Time Warp (targeting decision making, pacing manipulation) I have been talking about for a looong time. | ||
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love1another
United States1844 Posts
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
On February 13 2010 17:20 Zelniq wrote: Yeah that's correct.wait, lemme get this straight. Protoss gets Time Warp and Warp Gates Terran gets Reactor (double unit production) and M.U.L.E. Zerg just gets Inject Larvae? | ||
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CauthonLuck
United States93 Posts
Inject Larvae is incredible, the strength it gives to either early game aggression or economic growth far surpasses the other race's mechanics. It's strength dwindles in comparison only because of the relative weakness of Zerg tier 2, and even then you have to recognize it's potential for surprise tech switches in terms of the sheer number of units that you aren't prepared for. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
On February 13 2010 17:20 Zelniq wrote: I saw your post on SC2GDF and think you might be overreacting. If the Blizzcon article about inject larvae is correct about 1 hatch + queen = 2.5 hatch then spawn larvae sounds like the best mechanic (we have no idea how strong time warp is yet).wait, lemme get this straight. Protoss gets Time Warp and Warp Gates Terran gets Reactor (double unit production) and M.U.L.E. Zerg just gets Inject Larvae? | ||
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meeple
Canada10211 Posts
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
tried to delete that thread but failed, gg. i think i used it as an excuse to post my suggestions/criticisms of the shallowness of their macro mechanics, when it could be oh so much more! but i'll wait for beta to be out before I really lay it on em | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On February 13 2010 07:14 Archerofaiur wrote: PC (via increased minerals) increased economic growth, unit production, supply, etc... Extra minerals do not give you any more choice than you already had without it, except when you should build it in your BO. For example compare PC with mule, pc gives extra minerals without choice, mule gives extra minerals but you can chose to scan or get extra supplies instead. Which one have the most choice? With this speed thing you can also chose to get extra minerals (Building workers faster, duh), but you can also chose to upgrade faster or speed up production for a critical unit in emergencies. Which one got more choice, just extra minerals like the old or the choice between extra minerals, faster upgrading or faster unit production? With your logic Blizzard could add this new revolutionary macro mechanic: "All players now gain double the minerals and gas", zomg it would double your decisions!!!!!!!!! Then we would get awesome macro games!!!!!!! | ||
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On February 13 2010 20:07 Klockan3 wrote: Extra minerals do not give you any more choice than you already had without it, except when you should build it in your BO. I think your missing that minerals like research times and unit production are pacing elements. Choosing where to focus these pacing element enhancers is what you would call decision making. This is true for both PC and TW with the exception that PC does not affect research pacing and TW does not effect supply pacing. Quick before everyone starts writing telling me all the differences between TW and PC make sure you go back and read those sentences and understand what im saying (hint im not just saying they are the same). So ultimatly your arguement is that extra minerals isnt choice because it can just be part of your BO. By that same logic Time Warp "lists" could be built into BOs. Also your statement ignores that game circumstances and progression can cause players to diverge off the BO beaten path. | ||
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DarkShadowz
Sweden321 Posts
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
On February 14 2010 00:30 Archerofaiur wrote: There's no choice at all with PC; this is silly. Mining 6 minerals instead of 5 just speeds you up. You have to make the same decisions regardless. If SC:BW was patched so that worked mined 10 minerals instead of 8, would that add more choice to the game? It would change how the game is played, but it would not add any new choices or skill to the game.I think your missing that minerals like research times and unit production are pacing elements. Choosing where to focus these pacing element enhancers is what you would call decision making. This is true for both PC and TW with the exception that PC does not affect research pacing and TW does not effect supply pacing. Quick before everyone starts writing telling me all the differences between TW and PC make sure you go back and read those sentences and understand what im saying (hint im not just saying they are the same) So ultimatly your arguement is that extra minerals isnt choice because it can just be part of your BO. By that same logic Time Warp "lists" could be built into BOs. Also your statement ignores that game circumstances and progression can cause players to diverge off the BO beaten path. We don't know much about time warp, but if it targets a single building then it has a ton more choice in every build order. | ||
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heroyi
United States1064 Posts
i dont know if blizzard did it because of this knowledge or not BUT it seems a great way to balance pvz espacially. zerg has the ability to switch its tech or between army aggression and economy. All doing so with a high chance of preventing scouting....and in pvz you always wanna scout zerg. Now with the time warp protoss can immediately produce more zealots or templars or w.e is necessary to combat the tech switch and even to maybe match the zerg unit number (not food). At the same time i cant help but feel that they are making protoss more of a "newb" class and make it even more forgiving. you lost your main army full of the most powerful race, dont worry just build it up quickly. if we look at pvt how will it change? toss had to be extremely careful against terrans (mines and siege tanks). now fly a pylon over one rran expo, warp 5 lots and take it out, suicide your main army into another expo and quickly regen the army with warp gates (10sec faster units) and time warp (w.e the stats will be). All this new mechanics ACTUALLY COMPLIMENTS the gameplay of pvt in sense of toss has to grab many expo as possible at same time shutting terrans out. those hordes of minerals will be used really fast in pvt for protoss now. i dont think flash can just turtle in his games anymore in sc2. of course this is all theorycrafting...but the human mind is imaginative. BETA BETA BETA BETA | ||
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On February 14 2010 02:10 Tsagacity wrote: There's no choice at all with PC; this is silly. Mining 6 minerals instead of 5 just speeds you up. You have to make the same decisions regardless. If SC:BW was patched so that worked mined 10 minerals instead of 8, would that add more choice to the game? It would change how the game is played, but it would not add any new choices or skill to the game. We don't know much about time warp, but if it targets a single building then it has a ton more choice in every build order. The big thing your missing is causation. You think the decision making just stops once the ability is casted. You have to look at what it does for the gameplay expierence as a whole. Its like looking at Spawn Larva and realizing that more larva mean more decisions about what those larva become. Ok so ive just given you 200 extra minerals. What are all the possible choices you can make with it? Zealots, probes, pylons, gateways, cannons, forge, core, assimilator, expanding ...and thats not even counting what you can do with some more gas. One of the bigger macro mechanics in SC1 was building lots of gateways. PC encourages that. TW much less so (only through pumping probes). If your using it for faster unit production than the pressure to build additional gateways is reduced. In essence your decreasing one macro action to increase another. Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. Although we need the actual numbers to actually see the degree of impact here. | ||
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
On February 14 2010 03:33 Archerofaiur wrote: These are the same choices any player makes with their minerals in SC:BW regardless of race. Increasing someone's income does not add choice; it just makes them go through their choices faster. Whether or not I want to make a zealot, a probe, a gateway, or a cannon is not a special decision added thanks to PC.The big thing your missing is causation. You think the decision making just stops once the ability is casted. You have to look at what it does for the gameplay expierence as a whole. Ok so ive just given you 200 extra minerals. What are all the possible choices you can make with it? Zealots, probes, pylons, gateways, cannons, forge, core...and thats not even counting what you can do with some more gas.. | ||
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