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We've heard about it from about every single zerg gameplay impressions thus far. A missing link in the Zerg arsenal to allow Zerg to fight an even match midgame. You could say the Ultralisk answers the question, but by the time you have that many Ultralisks, you probably already crippled the opponent to the point your allowed to get Ultralisks from early game where you can compete.
I think (and most people would probably agree with me) that the hole is the transition from the spell caster being the defiler to the infestor. Anyone have any ideas for the infestor? The way this unit functions really defines mid-late gameplay between all zerg matchups, just like the defiler did in BW. I really think the infestor could be something really zergy and bad ass than simply temporary mind control which doesn't seem to fit at all. Something like storm or swarm that really changes the battlefield.
Otherwise, think of a whole new unit that could really fill that hole in the zerg arsenal. The way this dillema is solved by theory crafting and or blizzard in house unit devolpment and balancing will shape the face of zerg combat. And please dont give me crap about "theorycrafting does nothing", it has changed alot of things, such as the recent criticism about the zealot art. Theres a reason there is so many scratched units.
*personal ideas*
Infested terrain: spell that temporarily infests a large area of terrain (about as much as the storm covers) with a more powerful type of creep that vastly increases zerg ground armor, regeneration, and gives all other races a hp degeneration and slowdown to their ground units. In zvz you'd need to be careful to position your units so only they will benefit from the creep. The creep would recede at a normal creep rate.
Think Zergy guys XD The best race ever needs a weapon for when inject larva gets the nerf.
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lmao thats why I came too...
*Edit
K I actually read the post and yeah, I dont think larvae will get scrapped, just timed differently but anywho.
How about a unit with eggs on its back or something, that casts a biological feeding frenzy in almost dark swarm form. whatever units pass through the cloud, their DNA is sent to the caster and the eggs begin transformation into the zerg form of enemies left victim to the cloud, inject larvae could be used on the unit to give more eggs for transformation.
this unit could also devour (consume) any biological unit with a ranged tongue attack to replenish mana ala the defiler.
just off the top of my head but meh
another idea maybe could be a spell that might look similar to ensnare but instead of slow the affected units down it would stick them together, unit by unit like a real web. this would also limit affected units movement and disallow auto-surround and anything really effective lol
hmmmm?
*Edit 2 lol
close your eyes and just imagine these unit and spell ideas before you kill them
I'd like to read some other ideas too
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I actually came to read this lol.
Anyway, I agree with you
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On September 05 2009 11:01 Leg[end] wrote:
I actually came to read this lol.
Anyway, I agree with you
this(the whole thing)
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Infestors are fine. On top of neural parasite they have an improved ensnare called fungal infestation that eventually immobilizes them.
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I think the roach is taking the role of mid-game unit(lurker) but from what i've read they are just not as good as hydra. Blizzard needs to give it a different style of attack, like AOE or blind units, something annoying enough to allow the zerg to transition to lategame.
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i guess they took away plague from the infestor? last time i checked it had plague but that was 3-4 months ago. probably doesn't anymore.
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What about a very large AOE spell that works as a sight blocker + blinder?
Basically any units or detectors in it would suffer from SCBW "Blind" while the cloud itself would work as the new "sight blocker" doodad concept.
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I agree, absolutely. The infestor and Roach should be the keys to fixing Zerg Tier 2. Right now, it's cool, and relatively powerful--but it just doesn't synergize all that well with the rest of the Zerg army. Ideally, Zerg Tier 1 (i.e. Hydra/Zergling/Baneling) should be fast, powerful, but also weak in a few key areas--ideally, Tier 2 should be the units which take that Zerg army. and round it out, complementing the strengths of the fast, mobile Tier 1 army, while balancing out or neutralizing its weaknesses. I think they're going in the right direction with the Roach, by having it be a damage-absorber for the Tier 1 Zerg's low-hitpoint unit makeup. Right now, the problem with the Roach seems to be that it's just not all that useful except in very specific situations; but I think Blizzard is definitely heading in the right direction, and they'll get there eventually. And that alone should be a big help for Zerg Tier 2.
For the Infestor, however, the new ability "Fungal Scourge" (i.e. more powerful Ensnare) seems to be a step in the right direction, as it's a good "big army" ability, one that is powerful enough to turn the tide of a battle by allowing the Zerg army a critical advantage--but the Infestor needs at least another such ability to make it useful. Perhaps a return of Fungal Infestation? In any event, the problem is not unsolvable. I can't wait to see what Blizzard comes up with for these units...
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have any of you people read the new article about spawning larve??? Sounds like zerg is currently IMBA- and who needs mid tier teck when you can run anyone other with 14501345013475145 tier 1 stuff untill you get to late game?
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On September 05 2009 13:49 generic88 wrote:
What about a very large AOE spell that works as a sight blocker + blinder?
Basically any units or detectors in it would suffer from SCBW "Blind" while the cloud itself would work as the new "sight blocker" doodad concept.
The Overseer (also Tier 2) is supposed to have that ability [although limited to ground units]
My ideal form of that spell is
Spore cloud: LOS blocker, units/buildings inside it are blinded and cloaked.
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On September 05 2009 14:47 Misrah wrote:
have any of you people read the new article about spawning larve??? Sounds like zerg is currently IMBA- and who needs mid tier teck when you can run anyone other with 14501345013475145 tier 1 stuff untill you get to late game?
Please read the thread before you post. This again is for after they nerf inject larva to a simple macro mechanic (and probably to the point of uselessness).
If you've got ideas for how the roach and infestor could be changed into tier 2 combatants, throw it out there. Hopefully they should synergize with tier 1 as well.
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If "Fungal Scourge"/ensnare slows units to the point of being immobilized I like it
I'd suggest tweaking the Neural Parasite so that its Energy cost depended on the hit points+shield points of the unit it was being cast on, making it more broadly useful.
The Zerg player should be able to spend resources to permantly Infest the Terran Infantry units they control temporarily (as long as the Zerg has an Infester Pit)
I'd replace the "Spawn infested Terrans" with slightly stronger ability that was cast on a Building (Enemy or Friendly)... and caused it to spawn Mantalings
OR....
"Disease"..... ability is targeted at one unit
for 40 sec. it does 5% of the unit's Current hp in damage (rounding down and Not bypassing shields) every 2 sec.
If the Diseased unit comes in contact/nearby with a second unit, the second unit gets Diseased for the same period of time that the first unit is diseased for
so if Marine A was Diseased 10 sec. ago and has 30 sec. left
and he comes near Zergling B, then Zergling B now has 30 sec. of Disease
This is useful with the Infester's burrow-move+cast because you Don't want to cast disease in the middle of a battle, your units will get it... you want to cast it on the enemy army Before the battle
Roach sounds like it should be good as is, possibly some slight tweaking
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From what I can tell, the main problem with the roach is how awkward it is to get - it's a unit that isn't absolutely necessary, and yet requires it's own otherwise unnecessary building to spawn. I would hazard a guess that they would be much more efficient if they were available as an upgrade at another unit's building - like lurkers were in SC1. It'd make them available earlier, and useful as more of a transition than as a tier all on their own.
The infestor's ensnare type thing sounds great to me. I personally think that's the most important ability it has, but I'm not sure I know the current build for the infested terran thing. I can certainly see how an ability that builds up to mass ensnare is going to be able to completely reverse battles, in the same way that storm does now for protoss.
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On September 05 2009 14:47 Misrah wrote:
have any of you people read the new article about spawning larve??? Sounds like zerg is currently IMBA- and who needs mid tier teck when you can run anyone other with 14501345013475145 tier 1 stuff untill you get to late game?
That post sounded like it wasn't exactly thought out. That's not even close to how it works. Where do you jump from "run them over with 14501345013475145 tier 1 units" into late game? The whole point is getting to late game, i.e through mid game.
Please, refrain from posting unless you actually intend to contribute something to the discussion.
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On September 05 2009 17:11 Leg[end] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2009 14:47 Misrah wrote:
have any of you people read the new article about spawning larve??? Sounds like zerg is currently IMBA- and who needs mid tier teck when you can run anyone other with 14501345013475145 tier 1 stuff untill you get to late game? That post sounded like it wasn't exactly thought out. That's not even close to how it works. Where do you jump from "run them over with 14501345013475145 tier 1 units" into late game? The whole point is getting to late game, i.e through mid game. Please, refrain from posting unless you actually intend to contribute something to the discussion. Read this and his point will make sense...Maybe you should think before posting?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=101195
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I really really like the idea of razor plague. I hope blizz can somehow bring it back in, maybe on the infestor as a replacement for spawn infested terrans, which almost everyone dislikes.
Btw, has anyone thought of using neural parasite vs. toss like how you switch to muta during 5 hatch hydra? Mind control all the templars as they reach the rally point----> storm all the toss units...*drools*
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The hole in the zerg ars…
disappointing
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On September 05 2009 15:32 decemberscalm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2009 14:47 Misrah wrote:
have any of you people read the new article about spawning larve??? Sounds like zerg is currently IMBA- and who needs mid tier teck when you can run anyone other with 14501345013475145 tier 1 stuff untill you get to late game? Please read the thread before you post. This again is for after they nerf inject larva to a simple macro mechanic (and probably to the point of uselessness). If you've got ideas for how the roach and infestor could be changed into tier 2 combatants, throw it out there. Hopefully they should synergize with tier 1 as well.
if they fix that
they'll fix the problem that you have here. no need to discuss over something they're bound to fix.
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I think the creep idea works well... they could add something like ensnare that lowered infantry vision to like 1 or 2 matrices, that would be cool
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EPT
