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Hey guys,
I just wanted to throw in a general question in PvP. I was only a WoL diamond player so I'm not an expert at all.
I was wondering if a robo opening is still viable in PvP? VoidRays do the damage immortals normally did and there is no need for a fast observer anymore since oracles can detect DTs and you can get early scouting information with your mothership core plus an unscouted oracle can almost end the game in seconds.
What are the advantages a robo opening has compared to a stargate opening? I cant come up with any (cause I dont have the experience).
Any ideas?
*hope it's okay to start a new topic for this*
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I guess Robo should be viable in many games because it counters twilight (especially DT) openings that will be common now due to the reduced cost of the DT tech. Blind mass immortal expands probably aren't good anymore, but robo + another tech should be okay.
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Warp prisms still are pretty good.
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With hallucination already researched, phoenixes having improved survivability, and the MSC, players have more active scouting solutions than the observer. Robo is still certainly a viable opening, but it is a slow and techy option which doesn't allow you to put much aggression on (the exception being warp prisms). The immortal is still weak against phoenixes, and the revered colossi deathball is leaving favor due to the staying power of skytoss. I never do robo openings anymore.
However, late game, observers with speed are necessary for tempests and warp prisms with speed are just good to have.
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Looking at the options the Protoss currently has I think it will still be a reasonable random matchup, but for now people will be testing more skytoss because of the new units.
If you think of both the oracle and tempest I think that Robo builds are still usable, and don't change things at all.
You can use stalker/observer against the Oracles and tempest are way to expensive to really win an early game with is what I can say based ony my thoughts, not on facts.
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i still think robo is still viable but more of a reactionary move. Since more and more protoss are favoring stargate openings, more and more protoss will counter with the 5 stalker+msc build or blink builds. A fast robo with an immortal will shut down the 5 stalker build and help you will buckle down vs any kind of blink play. I like to build the robo if i scout double gas, double gate and the msc building on the nexus. You dont need more than one immortal so you can just get the observer out and scout his reaction to your immortals.
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Robo openings seem to have suffered a lot in HotS with skytoss becoming the in thing, but they don't seem to have lost all viability. There does, however, seem to be a lower suggested amount of robo units you should make in PvP than in WoL, when they were king shit. The new max seems to be 0 colossus, lol.
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Robo has a role in countering strong and early gate-based attacks that are stalker heavy and/or include blink.
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Even though I haven't PvP quite yet in HOTS (just placements terran/zerg) I find that opening stargate and getting defensive mothership core almost always works out. Aside from vengeful 4 gates oracle/void with some stalker support makes robo more or less useless in the early game. Mass sentry is too slow and too fragile to stop oracles from destroying mineral lines.
Essentially its a battle of aggression vs defensive play, and what mixture of units are behind it. PvP (aside from 4 gate) is a much better matchup in HOTS
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I think that it'll be fine once they nerf void rays. As it is now, Stargate is almost oblig.
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On March 14 2013 16:02 caradoc wrote:
I think that it'll be fine once they nerf void rays. As it is now, Stargate is almost oblig.
My thought as well.
By the way voids don't even need any stats nerfs, just make it easier to run when they are charged by shortening/removing the leash.
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i often destroy stargate builds with a safe 1gate---> robo ----> add 2nd gate ----> observer ----> expand -----> immortal build. just build one immortal and protect your nexi and mineral lines from phoenix harrass with 2-3 stalkers and a msc with the planetary nexus thing.
robo is still rock solid,yes it might put u at a disadvantage against an experienced phoenix user but it will definitely put u ahead against blink all ins,blink expands,dt tech and at even footing against another robo opener.not bad,not bad at all.
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The old cycle of
Robo beats Council
Council beats Stargate
Stargate beats Robo
is still there. It's just that it became a bit harder on the robo side and a bit easier on the stargate side
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I would think in theory a 2 Gate Robo into expand and just go into Blink if your opponent opens Stargate should still be viable. It's safe against DT or Blink openings (Blink time even was increased to 170). You even have the Nexus Overcharge now to help defend. That also helps versus Phoenix + 4 gate plays that can happen if he scouts your early expo with a quick Phoenix and decides to go for that build.
I don't really like Stargate in general unless it's for Oracles (which are pretty bad PvP imo due to warp ins of Stalkers) so I will definitely go mostly Robo openers and see how it works out. I don't see any glaring weakness early on to Stargate though when compared to WoL. If anything your defense has been buffed due to MsC and Void Rays come in quite a bit later which gives you plenty of opportunity to exploit your earlier expand to do some sort of 6+ Gateway timing if you really want to kill him. Or just transition into 2 Stargate yourself if you enjoy fighting fire with fire.
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EPT
