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Hi every body, i creat this topic because i need help with a huge problem i encounter.
I love this game, really really much, so during holidays i take time to practice and play several hours( i'm top diam in wol). So i'm playing hots since 2 weeks.
The problem i have and i also had in wol, is that when EVERYTIME i start playing more than 5 games,i chain loose, and i chain loose like 10+ looses strike. Every thing is written on paper, i watch a lot streams of forgg and mlg, i know what i have to do but everything becomes rough, i loose to things that i shouldn't loose agains, my fingers gets confused, i have a very very poor game sense.
I really don't know why i am like that and it make me feel angry about myself, because i really want to improve in this game. Sometimes i even feel like i'm not made for this kind of strategic things, i feel like i'm not enough smart for understanding the game.
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From what you describe, your deficiency is probably not strategic. It probably has to do with your mechanics. Post up some replays so folks can help you.
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You're a tilter. It happens to alot of people, lose a few times and you lose a bunch.
I've had this problem for years with lots of games and the only way to deal with it that I've found is too calm down, think clearly, step away for a few minutes and then grind out more games.
The nice thing is, I also tilt in the opposite direction by going on huge winning streaks.
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The thing is that i'm not so angry, i'm even laid to lose that much and i try to help myself by watching the replay. But my moral goes really down and i get tired of the game. And i feel bad cause i really want to go reach my goal (go to master).
Here is me in a normal game:
http://drop.sc/306043 (i have good reaction against a dt rush, no over reacting play, gg)
Me after losses:
http://drop.sc/306044 (i knew it was a proxy because there was only two pylons is his base, so the proper reaction would have been to scout the expand location around 6:00, trow down bunkers and 3 turrets, on in each mineral line and the last at the front, and place lot of scv in repair, kind of instinctive but it's too much for my mind -_-')
http://drop.sc/306042 ( here i try to do mech, but i have an awful scout, wich allows him to play greedily and destroys me in the late game, awful mech player -_-'.)
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So I think there is a kind of a suboptimal mentality. First of all you need a mid/long term goal and a short term goal.
Your mid/long term goal should be masters, however it seems to me that you perceive this goal as a short term goal as well which makes you overly concerned about winning. In the short run this doesn't matter. Instead, what matters is playing a shitton of games on a daily basis.
So lets say you went 4-12 on one day. You would probably be extremely angry cus you lost so much and your point dropped, and while this mentality is difficult to completely get rid off, you can slowly improve it over time. Instead try this; Set a target of 15 games at minimum every time you have time to play starcraft. Now go praise your self for actually fulfilling this goal, even though you went 4-12. In fact, you should try to be a lot happier about going 4-12 than 3-0 in one day.
The thing is, there is simply no way you ever are going to get to masters if you try don't play a shitton of games, and the best way to remain focussed over a longer session is simply practice. WHen you have had multiple +15 games per day sessions, you will eventually learn how to remain focussed.
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On February 22 2013 01:40 Hider wrote:
So I think there is a kind of a suboptimal mentality. First of all you need a mid/long term goal and a short term goal.
Your mid/long term goal should be masters, however it seems to me that you perceive this goal as a short term goal as well which makes you overly concerned about winning. In the short run this doesn't matter. Instead, what matters is playing a shitton of games on a daily basis.
So lets say you went 4-12 on one day. You would probably be extremely angry cus you lost so much and your point dropped, and while this mentality is difficult to completely get rid off, you can slowly improve it over time. Instead try this; Set a target of 15 games at minimum every time you have time to play starcraft. Now go praise your self for actually fulfilling this goal, even though you went 4-12. In fact, you should try to be a lot happier about going 4-12 than 3-0 in one day.
The thing is, there is simply no way you ever are going to get to masters if you try don't play a shitton of games, and the best way to remain focussed over a longer session is simply practice. WHen you have had multiple +15 games per day sessions, you will eventually learn how to remain focussed.
I have to disagree with this (top 4 master europe in wol). For the last two years i didnt have a job most of the time so i spent thousands of hours playins starcraft, and most of the time i played huge session like 6 to 8 hours in a row. Usually it started with a couple wins, a couple loss and I didnt go on tilt, but if at some point i lost to something stupid i feel i shouldnt lose to (like double factory helion or whatever), I would immediately go on tilt and lose an easy 10 games in a row, just like in the op. I would go on a 10 win streak the day after, but it wouldnt make me any happy because I was feeling like those games had to be won no matter what since i was fighting lesser opponents.
In the long run I found out that controlling my mood and my mindset was at least as important as practicing because you dont actually improve when figthing lesser opponents. I think most people need to be pushed to their limits by better opponents to improve themselve. So what I ended up doing was playing like 4-6 games or something, leave the computer before i lost a couple games and before it could get worst and stop playing with the happy feeling that I did well. Then I would do anything else coming to mind for like a hour (read a book, watch tv, walk the dog) before resuming practice.
Doing this I finally found out (using programs) that my macro was mid GM level while I was still only top master. What stopped me from doing better was how I was feeling about the game. I was of that mindset (maybe the OP was of the same mindset, maybe not) that there is only a certain legit way to play the game, and that it was macro. any time i'd lose to early game cheese I would get super angry against myself for losing against such stupid stuff, i'd rage and launch another game where i wouldn't play any better.
My mindset prevented me from scouting much early game because I didnt care for those builds that i would found to not be normal builds. So i was like 'I dont care for those shitty builds, if he wants to double reactor helion into my face i'll let him, rage and leave the game coz that guy is not even playing starcraft at all", which is pretty hilarious. I finally tried to persuade myself that any play was legit as long as it won you games (maybe except triple pylon block :D). It made myself feeling less bad when losing to cheese and it let me improve, finally, in the long run.
I also want to add it's very important to understand the goal of ladder is to get better at starcraft, not to win games. If you lose to a stupid build you didnt scout, it's not something that should make you rage. You should simply say "ok, next time i'll scout better or change my build a little bit", GG and launch the next game. And btw, that's why I dont understand try hard players like protoss versus Zerg that fail their 2 base all in and get back to their choke. It's pointless because doing this they want to win at any cost, even if there's like 5% chance left to win the game. Instead, they should use their practice time better, understand where they fucked up and do better next time.
tl;dr : ppl go on tilt when losing a couple games in a row they think they should've won. This is a so wrong way to think about starcraft because if you didnt win, it means you messed up and that's it, whatever the build you were facing. Any build is legit, and there is nothing such as force field abuse, drop abuse, muta abuse etc. In order to improve, you HAVE to feel good about the game, you cant improve if you come to hate yourself. In order to get to those better feelings, stop playing after 4-6 games when you're doing good, do something else for a couple hours and resume practice. Because if you play 6 hours in a row, you'll eventually lose a couple game in a row and get mad, and that's where it all starts. I know for a fact about myself that I lose concentration after 4 games maximum. May be the same with you, maybe not.
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Thank you a lot Natalya, i identify myself in what you're saying. I will try to feel more better about the game by taking a break between 5~ games and rest my mind, and say to myself "I lost so it's my fault, let's see what i messed up=>ok, now i know and i'll try to do better next time". I think it will also help me to share my time between starcraft and things i have to do like home work or more relaxed things. :D
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Natalya
(top 4 master europe in wol). For the last two years i didnt have a job most of the time so i spent thousands of hours playins starcraft
Hider
15 games at minimum every time you have time to play starcraft
Hey Natalya, I think you just proved his damn point.
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On February 22 2013 03:30 Natalya wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2013 01:40 Hider wrote:
So I think there is a kind of a suboptimal mentality. First of all you need a mid/long term goal and a short term goal.
Your mid/long term goal should be masters, however it seems to me that you perceive this goal as a short term goal as well which makes you overly concerned about winning. In the short run this doesn't matter. Instead, what matters is playing a shitton of games on a daily basis.
So lets say you went 4-12 on one day. You would probably be extremely angry cus you lost so much and your point dropped, and while this mentality is difficult to completely get rid off, you can slowly improve it over time. Instead try this; Set a target of 15 games at minimum every time you have time to play starcraft. Now go praise your self for actually fulfilling this goal, even though you went 4-12. In fact, you should try to be a lot happier about going 4-12 than 3-0 in one day.
The thing is, there is simply no way you ever are going to get to masters if you try don't play a shitton of games, and the best way to remain focussed over a longer session is simply practice. WHen you have had multiple +15 games per day sessions, you will eventually learn how to remain focussed. I have to disagree with this (top 4 master europe in wol). For the last two years i didnt have a job most of the time so i spent thousands of hours playins starcraft, and most of the time i played huge session like 6 to 8 hours in a row. Usually it started with a couple wins, a couple loss and I didnt go on tilt, but if at some point i lost to something stupid i feel i shouldnt lose to (like double factory helion or whatever), I would immediately go on tilt and lose an easy 10 games in a row, just like in the op. I would go on a 10 win streak the day after, but it wouldnt make me any happy because I was feeling like those games had to be won no matter what since i was fighting lesser opponents. In the long run I found out that controlling my mood and my mindset was at least as important as practicing because you dont actually improve when figthing lesser opponents. I think most people need to be pushed to their limits by better opponents to improve themselve. So what I ended up doing was playing like 4-6 games or something, leave the computer before i lost a couple games and before it could get worst and stop playing with the happy feeling that I did well. Then I would do anything else coming to mind for like a hour (read a book, watch tv, walk the dog) before resuming practice. Doing this I finally found out (using programs) that my macro was mid GM level while I was still only top master. What stopped me from doing better was how I was feeling about the game. I was of that mindset (maybe the OP was of the same mindset, maybe not) that there is only a certain legit way to play the game, and that it was macro. any time i'd lose to early game cheese I would get super angry against myself for losing against such stupid stuff, i'd rage and launch another game where i wouldn't play any better. My mindset prevented me from scouting much early game because I didnt care for those builds that i would found to not be normal builds. So i was like 'I dont care for those shitty builds, if he wants to double reactor helion into my face i'll let him, rage and leave the game coz that guy is not even playing starcraft at all", which is pretty hilarious. I finally tried to persuade myself that any play was legit as long as it won you games (maybe except triple pylon block :D). It made myself feeling less bad when losing to cheese and it let me improve, finally, in the long run. I also want to add it's very important to understand the goal of ladder is to get better at starcraft, not to win games. If you lose to a stupid build you didnt scout, it's not something that should make you rage. You should simply say "ok, next time i'll scout better or change my build a little bit", GG and launch the next game. And btw, that's why I dont understand try hard players like protoss versus Zerg that fail their 2 base all in and get back to their choke. It's pointless because doing this they want to win at any cost, even if there's like 5% chance left to win the game. Instead, they should use their practice time better, understand where they fucked up and do better next time. tl;dr : ppl go on tilt when losing a couple games in a row they think they should've won. This is a so wrong way to think about starcraft because if you didnt win, it means you messed up and that's it, whatever the build you were facing. Any build is legit, and there is nothing such as force field abuse, drop abuse, muta abuse etc. In order to improve, you HAVE to feel good about the game, you cant improve if you come to hate yourself. In order to get to those better feelings, stop playing after 4-6 games when you're doing good, do something else for a couple hours and resume practice. Because if you play 6 hours in a row, you'll eventually lose a couple game in a row and get mad, and that's where it all starts. I know for a fact about myself that I lose concentration after 4 games maximum. May be the same with you, maybe not.
You remember that 30minutes conversation you had with me about allins :D I ended up leaving the game .. Fun times..
On topic:
The correct approach to practice would be to never ever let the past game influence your next win or loss. You have to try play every game as solid as you can. Lost to allin/bad scout? Play even more solid. Never go on tilt and start playing incredibly greedy or allinish. That is when the loose streak often happens (b/c you encoutner alot of BO losses and it makes you mad even more etc. etc.)
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I've found it a good habit to immediately stop playing if I lose 3 in a row and go do something else for a bit. This really lessens the chances that I requeue with a poor mindset.
On February 22 2013 05:47 Obamanation666 wrote:Natalya Show nested quote +(top 4 master europe in wol). For the last two years i didnt have a job most of the time so i spent thousands of hours playins starcraft Hider Hey Natalya, I think you just proved his damn point.
Hey, I think you should have read the entire damn post.
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Do you take enough breaks?
I started doing one set of either pushups or pullups after every game to keep my circulation up. every hour or so I take a break to wonder around and rest for 5 minutes. I think it is vital to easy into playing a lot. Not playing for 2 days and then sitting down, bashing 20 games without a break is pretty discuraging.
Just try to relax more and take breaks drink enough and you will not have the symptoms of messing up stuff you don't mess up normally.
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On February 22 2013 00:24 Sprite825 wrote:
Hi every body, i creat this topic because i need help with a huge problem i encounter.
I love this game, really really much, so during holidays i take time to practice and play several hours( i'm top diam in wol). So i'm playing hots since 2 weeks.
The problem i have and i also had in wol, is that when EVERYTIME i start playing more than 5 games,i chain loose, and i chain loose like 10+ looses strike. Every thing is written on paper, i watch a lot streams of forgg and mlg, i know what i have to do but everything becomes rough, i loose to things that i shouldn't loose agains, my fingers gets confused, i have a very very poor game sense.
I really don't know why i am like that and it make me feel angry about myself, because i really want to improve in this game. Sometimes i even feel like i'm not made for this kind of strategic things, i feel like i'm not enough smart for understanding the game.
I have the same issue. It is a matter of gaming "endurance".
Like any strenuous activity, people reach a point where they tire and become sloppy.
Starcraft 2 is not physically difficulty but it can be taxing mentally. It does take a toll on your nervous system.
Personally, I have a threshold of ~5 games before I start to experience diminishing returns, depending on the match-ups.
I have a very low threshold for TvT, I find this matchup to be particularly exhausting, typically I can only play 1-2 consecutively before I need a break.
My recommendation would be to play 4-5 consecutive games, take a long break to study replays or VODs, and then resume your gaming session until you develop the endurance to play more consistently in longer sessions. You can't start training like a Korean professional Day #1, it takes time to get accustomed to that level of focus and consistency.
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On February 22 2013 00:24 Sprite825 wrote:
Hi every body, i creat this topic because i need help with a huge problem i encounter.
I love this game, really really much, so during holidays i take time to practice and play several hours( i'm top diam in wol). So i'm playing hots since 2 weeks.
The problem i have and i also had in wol, is that when EVERYTIME i start playing more than 5 games,i chain loose, and i chain loose like 10+ looses strike. Every thing is written on paper, i watch a lot streams of forgg and mlg, i know what i have to do but everything becomes rough, i loose to things that i shouldn't loose agains, my fingers gets confused, i have a very very poor game sense.
I really don't know why i am like that and it make me feel angry about myself, because i really want to improve in this game. Sometimes i even feel like i'm not made for this kind of strategic things, i feel like i'm not enough smart for understanding the game.
I have this problem and get this a lot as well. The biggest problem for me is when I would loose to things I knew was coming and the composition I had just didn't work well vs another composition or a miss click ended it. A good example of this was in WoL ZvP when you got cough with a good vortex and that ended the game for you. So gimmicky but that was what ZvP was.
The other thing that I found used to hurt my play level was my focus and overall enjoyment of the game, tilting was one thing but I found after awhile in WoL the meta game got so stale I felt rail roaded into builds that I had to do or otherwise loose outright. A good example of this was ZvP, your pretty well HAD to 3 base every game and try to hold off the toss's early game shannagins or 2 base all-ins, and then if you made it past that point it always ended up with a BL, Infester vs Stalker, Robo, Vortex fight. It just got so boring and repetitive i couldn't find the motivation or enjoyment to play the match-up, resulting in more loses and bad play. ZvT was very similar when they meched in WoL but in HoTS i find my motivation has returned due to the fresh variety of builds that can be done, and the new units add a new density I like. Long and short of it all, make sure you are enjoying your games and having fun foremost otherwise the rest of your game will suffer.
Aside from that, the advice others have given is good advice
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You have to realize when your focus is slipping and stop playing ladder matches. Just play unrated games for awhile if you have lost more than 3 games in a row.
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On February 22 2013 00:24 Sprite825 wrote:
Hi every body, i creat this topic because i need help with a huge problem i encounter.
I love this game, really really much, so during holidays i take time to practice and play several hours( i'm top diam in wol). So i'm playing hots since 2 weeks.
The problem i have and i also had in wol, is that when EVERYTIME i start playing more than 5 games,i chain loose, and i chain loose like 10+ looses strike. Every thing is written on paper, i watch a lot streams of forgg and mlg, i know what i have to do but everything becomes rough, i loose to things that i shouldn't loose agains, my fingers gets confused, i have a very very poor game sense.
I really don't know why i am like that and it make me feel angry about myself, because i really want to improve in this game. Sometimes i even feel like i'm not made for this kind of strategic things, i feel like i'm not enough smart for understanding the game.
forgg is an execution player, i dont really think that style is viable until youmaster basic mechanics first. if you are diamond in WOL< even top it dont matter. you need to be able to flawlessly macro while you micro your helloins/banshees , etc. forgg wins because he conlolquerlols over people with his mechanics, that is his really strength. that he can micro while macro. i cant tell you how many times players say they have good multitasking, i watch their rep, its them dropping in 3 places yet being supply blocked the whole time. if youre not macroing well at home, youre not multitasking :p just multidropping
On February 24 2013 01:04 Salient wrote:
You have to realize when your focus is slipping and stop playing ladder matches. Just play unrated games for awhile if you have lost more than 3 games in a row.
this
what i like to do is
3 wins - take a break to rest my eyes and hands
2 losses - go have a cigarette
:p
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so what I see as the problem here is you take this whole thing way too serious, it's not like your life depends on improving. even if you reach masters, grandmaster or whatever, what does it change really? you still win roughly 50% of your games and lose 50% just vs different people
learn to enjoy the game itself and not the improvement aspect, ironically this helps improving way more in my experience unless you have a sick work ethic and losses dont affect you at all even when you play 50 games per day. not the case for you obviously.
also despite what people say everyone can be good etc etc, I think its possible that you just have to work way harder than other people to reach a certain level. if you cant deal with that I suggest you to stop playing starcraft or at least take it less serious and dont worry about winning or losing.
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if you cant deal with that I suggest you to stop playing starcraft or at least take it less serious=> haha, good joke.
So, thank you every one for helping so much, I'll think of you everytime i'll practice and enjoy this awsome game !
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EPT
