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MUSCONE
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany7 Posts
February 16 2013 16:25 GMT
#1
Hello guys.

I am (ingame FTSǂMuScOne.598) and i need some help. In hots i am since yesterday in diamond but TvT is my main problem since platin and the begin of beta.
I have no idea what i must play exactly vs. mech.
I think my BO is good, but i just lose after a while. I need really huge help I dont want to lose vs. bad mechuser. -.-

Here some replays : I hope you take your time to help me.

http://www.share-online.biz/dl/CL0TMBIMPDJ



Thank you very much for your help already!

Guillermoman
Profile Joined October 2012
24 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-17 16:47:32
February 17 2013 16:46 GMT
#2
I can't watch your replay pack right now because I don't have my computer, but I can give you a few tips on how to play against Mech. I am a Mech player myself and there are certain things a bio person can do to beat Mech.

1. Go for a doom drop around 13-14 minutes. Mech is all about positional play and has very expensive production facilities. A doom drop aimed near production forces Mech out of a fortified position and if you can snipe a few Factories you get get a lead just from that. At 13 minutes, Mech is only just starting to macro towards the 15 minute 150 supply push.

2. Switch heavily to Battlecruiser/Viking around 18 minutes. A switch like this can be hard to scout if the Starports are placed correctly. Also, Battlecruisers are dominant against everything except the Widow Mine.

3. Have at least two groups of Bio out on the map. These roaming groups can test where the Mech player is fortified and make it such that any mistake made by the Mech player can be punished.

User was warned for this post
Rowrin
Profile Joined September 2011
United States280 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-17 19:48:18
February 17 2013 18:41 GMT
#3
I'm going through these one at a time and going to edit this post as I watch:

Game 1: "Mech imba" vs [dk] FoX
+ Show Spoiler +
-One thing you need to do is get a faster third vs a terran who you know is going pure mech, even if it is just dropping the orbital for the mules. You have enough minerals for the command center at 9:30, and have 700+ minerals at 10:30 and dont drop the command center till 12:30-13:00.
-Vs a pure mech terran, I suggest not getting tanks if you are focusing on bio. They cut into your upgrades, and cut into your medvacs that you need early. You only got one tank, and invested into the +1 vehicle upgrades so that was a really expensive tank.
-Since your opponent is going pure mech also, hellbats are just going to soak up a lot of the your tanks damage. You really should be gettting air weapons instead. His vikings are his only anti air, and they benefit from his mech armor. If you dont get air weapons for late game, you are never going to be able to get air superiority.
-You did the one drop when you got your first two medivacs (which did good damage), but other than that you rarely went for more drops. While a meching terran is on 2 bases it really is kinda hard to drop them since they are so turtle, but when you see them aggressively going for their third, that is your queue to start dropping again.
-Once a meching terran reaches a critical number of tanks, you aren't going to be able to push them (map dependent). By 17-18 minutes you should be around your fourth base and transitioning into air with 3-4 starports. (again only if terran is going pure mech, vs bio mech you need tanks). Being on more bases, you should be able to easily wrestle air supieriority and wear a meching player down.

As a side note: need more medvacs and marauders. While dropping his main, like you did earlier, poke around looking for vulneriable tanks and bases with your main army while the hellions are away defending. You're Bio ball shouldn't be clumped up all the time, split them up a bit and keep poking different areas of the map so that the other terran doens't feel comfortable knowing where your army is and marching out with his entire mech ball.


Game 2: "mech" vs Attila:
+ Show Spoiler +
-9:30 third
-you have too many tech labs at the start. 4 rax all with techlabs. you were lacking marauders last game, but this game you might want to open with a few more marines. Marauders eat up a lot of minerals early on and you'll end up with a lot of banked gas and not enough minerals.
-TOO MUCH GAS D: 1500 banked gas by 10:30: stay on 2 refineries till you start adding medvacs. Maybe a third if you are going early mass upgrades but waaaaay too much gas.
-Need more medivacs and they were really late. Your 12 minute poke to check the third was good and did fair damage, but there really should have been medvacs with it.
-Ship weapons No vikings
-You are keeping your army too balled up, and while you are doing some drops, dropship harass in the higher levels of play should be used more to push your opponent out of position where your main army can land some good blows. You need to move around with your army more while you are dropping, or be poking in multiple places at once. Mech terran is really really good at holding one directional attacks. Especially on this map, mech terrans have to spread their tanks out super thin, multi pronged attacks are vital.
-Fourth was super late.


Game 3: "mech ez" vs BoxeR:
+ Show Spoiler +
- this wasn't a vs mech game. This was a 6 minute proxy rax? (wrong replay?)
- 2 player maps, always have your scouting scv scout your immediate areas. Had you seen the two barracks at your third, you could have easily pulled 8 or so scvs to auto repair that bunker.


Game 4: "mech 2" vs Larkkonen:
+ Show Spoiler +
-again, need that 9:30 third. You could afford it but you had 3 marauders queued up in one baracks.
-early medvacs late gas
-Late third again. Mech terran had thier third before you which is not good.
-after 1/1 you forgot your upgrades for a long time. banking a lot of gas because of that.
-That drop into the natural and main was sooooooooo gooooood, you killed off most of his tanks and forced all the ones at the third to fall back. YOU NEED TO USE MULTIPRONGED ATTACKS. you could have easily had the third and fourth had your units ouside your natural been more active.
-after 2/2 you forgot 3/3
-you got +1 air but no vikings again. and need more medvacs. (huge bank at 19 minutes.)
-he has vikings with +3 armor and you still have +1 weapons.
-you would have won instantly with that nuke at 30:00 had you not lost your whole army in it as well. In my oppinion, I wouldn't rely on nukes to catch a mech army off guard. You launched like 6-8 nukes and finally landed a hit. Just invest in vikings and transition into battle cruisers or even banshees. He had almost no anti-air. 6-8 nukes + 10-12 ghosts is worth more than 2 bcs and 12 vikings. with gas to spare for upgrades.
-you really needed anti air. It got to a point where you were so marauder heaving you had 2 ghosts as your only a-a.
-You really need to transition into BC's or baneshees. You had a pure marauder force with occasionally 2-3 medvacs vs tanks, hellbats, ravens, and vikings. the ravens alone would have killed your army.

-One thing i'm noticing is that you are constantly checking bases that a bio/biomech terran would take and not the bases meching terrans take. I suggest looking at the maps, other players and vods because you are poking at the wrong bases and not realizing that the other terran is on 1 or more bases than you. Meching terrans expand in a completely different direction. (also part of having your bio force moving all over the map and not just in a ball. You are too passive with your bio ball. Split them up and be constantly looking all over the map).
-Also, you cant be attacking tank lines head on like that. You need to split your units up and hit multiple areas.
Stingart
Profile Joined July 2011
122 Posts
February 17 2013 19:30 GMT
#4
I'm going through 1 game "Mech Imba" and i think that Guillermoman's advice is horrible, if only it where for the fact that he didn't watch any replay's while you had the guts to give them. I'm going to go through everything i see in this replay, since becoming better in general will help you beat a certain comp as well.

I may sound harsh, but this is how i give feedback to myself.

I notice:
- You have no camera hotkeys / aren't using them.
- 2:30: You react late to a harassing SCV. You only pull 1 SCV, if he wanted to he could delay your rax longer or even kill an SCV. Next time: Pull 2 SCV's and make sure your rax is always building.
- 6:10: I notice a rough start, your build is not optimized because your Rax and OC's are not constantly building units.
- 7:00: Enemy's on the minimap. You don't react, 1 SCV gets killed, you react 5 seconds later. You lose a marauder since you weren't paying attention to what mattered, your front.
- 8:25: Supply block.
- 9:39: You let your macro slip pretty hard, you can talk if you want to but never at the cost of macro.
- 10:30: Macro slip, 4 rax are idle.
- TIP! When you're going to push out, make 3~5 supply deposts so you can macro while keeping a constant eye on your units.
- 11:00: I notice an over saturation @ your main, but your natural is under saturated. Tip! Make sure each base has 16 workers mining before exceeding that number. This will make your workers mine optimal and gives you better income.
- 12:00 ~ 14:00: Against mech this is your time to shine, you have a better and more mobile army, but aside from 1 drop you're waiting. Bio(/Mech) vs Mech, time is of the essense.
- 18:00, you notice that your opponent is moving his entire army to his third. This is a huge mistake! You should've punished him for it by either dropping or destroying his natural.
- Your army consist mainly of bio, but you have 4 vikings. Because of this you can't do doom drops to punish any positional mistakes he's making. A competent Meching player will also have more vikings, so all your vikings are pretty much dead weight anyway.
- 18:30: You notice that his immobile army is way out of position, yet you do nothing at all. You lost a game winning oppertunity here.
- 20:00: You're losing units, you're not punishing him for all his mistakes. You are now starting to get behind.
- 24:00: You make the classic mistake a lot of players make, fighting mech head on while he is inside a choke. You can never do this unless your army is way bigger. You could've went around it
- 25:00 and on: Your death animation lasts 7 minutes and you lose.

In general, if you do these following things you will become much, much better vs a meching player.
A: Be active on the map, try for drops. While being active, punish his mistakes. Bio is mobile and when he moves out, you go kill his structures/economy.
B: Keep all your buildings constantly producing units.
C: Don't get supply blocked, its better to be a bit over the cap than to be under it.

Good luck, i think you can whoop Meching Terrans left and right with your current build.
Tresher
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany404 Posts
February 17 2013 21:02 GMT
#5
Ok I watched all replays.Even the ones were the opponent doesnt go mech or just leaves for a unknown reason.

-Start accepting Mech as a general/standard strategy.
-Stop acting like a little child.

Your macro is ok but you have to be a bit more tactical.You have a huge clumped up ball that you just walk straight into tanks.Then YOU insult people that they are noobs and using mech.(The game on Newkirk takes the cake where you said some very nasty things in german.)In a direct confrontation with a good postition and a superior army Mech will always come out ahead.Use drops for your advantage.If you cant find a good spot: go air.Your scv production was good so this should be no problem.
And please stop this childish behaviour and take the advices here.You got banned for this a year ago on the german b.net forums for a reason.Listen to the people here.



Extreme Force
Dirkinity
Profile Joined November 2012
Germany409 Posts
February 17 2013 21:28 GMT
#6
If you play Bio vs Mech you're like always behind. I played maybe 2-3 Games of Mech in WoL but since HotS I never played Bio in TvT. Its just terrible. Especially your Medivacs get sniped because Mech always has 3+ Vikings.
Mech is just superior in every way and its way easier to control than Bio.
Rowrin
Profile Joined September 2011
United States280 Posts
February 18 2013 00:12 GMT
#7
On February 18 2013 06:28 Dirkinity wrote:
If you play Bio vs Mech you're like always behind. I played maybe 2-3 Games of Mech in WoL but since HotS I never played Bio in TvT. Its just terrible. Especially your Medivacs get sniped because Mech always has 3+ Vikings.
Mech is just superior in every way and its way easier to control than Bio.


Not true at all.

For one, a bio player should be ahead of a mech player in terms of income because it is difficult for a mech player (at least early on) on secure each base. This comes at the cost of the units being less cost efficient (which is why you cant just ball up and fight head on).

With this extra income, a bio player should be able to keep up with a mech player, at least in terms of air upgrades. Bio units cost much less gas, all of which should be going into faster bio upgrades, and tech.

In the late game stages where mech players really start to have any sort of advantage over bio players, bio players have a much easier time teching to air:
- A bio player typically invests more into starports during the midgame for medvac production.
- a bio player wont have spent so much gas on factories and factory units; essentially all a bio players gas goes into upgrades and air-tech.

So say either mech or bio is "just superior in every way" is absurd. Each style plays on the other's weaknesses and you cant play both the same way.

Stingart
Profile Joined July 2011
122 Posts
February 18 2013 01:44 GMT
#8
On February 18 2013 09:12 Rowrin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 18 2013 06:28 Dirkinity wrote:
If you play Bio vs Mech you're like always behind. I played maybe 2-3 Games of Mech in WoL but since HotS I never played Bio in TvT. Its just terrible. Especially your Medivacs get sniped because Mech always has 3+ Vikings.
Mech is just superior in every way and its way easier to control than Bio.


Not true at all.

For one, a bio player should be ahead of a mech player in terms of income because it is difficult for a mech player (at least early on) on secure each base. This comes at the cost of the units being less cost efficient (which is why you cant just ball up and fight head on).

With this extra income, a bio player should be able to keep up with a mech player, at least in terms of air upgrades. Bio units cost much less gas, all of which should be going into faster bio upgrades, and tech.

In the late game stages where mech players really start to have any sort of advantage over bio players, bio players have a much easier time teching to air:
- A bio player typically invests more into starports during the midgame for medvac production.
- a bio player wont have spent so much gas on factories and factory units; essentially all a bio players gas goes into upgrades and air-tech.

So say either mech or bio is "just superior in every way" is absurd. Each style plays on the other's weaknesses and you cant play both the same way.



A bio / bio mech player doesn't typically have more starports. If anything, production goes towards MMM. A meching player gets vikings faster and in greater numbers. Transitioning into air as a pure bio player is very difficult. You must:
- Catch up in viking production, medivacs are dead weight in the air battle.
- Catch up in the upgrades, Meching players already have +3 armor from vehicle plating.
- Catch up in gas mining, sure you need less but you are also mining less.

Bio and Mech players both get the same gas income if you go mech you'll even get your gas sooner. Mech players will have enough minerals for a lot of hellions, which they will use for harass.

The only real difference between mech and bio isn't the transition. Its that Bio maxes out quicker and through this has the advantage early~mid game.
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2147 Posts
February 18 2013 02:41 GMT
#9
If you play Bio vs Mech. Try to take advantage of your mobility. If you see any holes in his turret wall. Drop him constantly. Take down turrets. Then attack with other groups from other sides.
KirA_TheGreaT
Profile Joined April 2011
France204 Posts
February 28 2013 00:34 GMT
#10
What i notice is that now, you definitely can't engage a mech army with bio since hellbat tank damage for ages ( i don't even want to imagine hellbat + PDD )
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