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United States7166 Posts
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EDIT:
What's so vexing about the new UI for the idle worker button, is that while I'm looking at the center of the screen, even if I am deliberately trying to tell if the icon is active or not, I cannot tell whether or not the button is active (meaning I've idle workers). No matter how hard I try I cannot.
Try this test out yourself, it's easy.
Just click these images to open them but look away or close your eyes as you do so, or you may accidentally look directly at the icon, then stare at the center of the screen and try to determine if you have any idle workers or not.
test 1
test 2
You cannot, unless you look at an area pretty close to the bottom left, and even then it's not that noticeable.
It goes without saying that the old icon is clearly visible even if you're staring at your supply cap at the top right:
test 1
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People have been complaining about this for a while now but Blizzard hasn't done anything yet, so I made this gif to help show the difference, especially for those who haven't been able to play HotS yet. Try focusing your eyes on the main screen area, keeping the bottom left to your periphery, and it'll be even harder to notice.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/z8y9Omm.gif)
Most players I've talked to agree that the new button is hard to notice now and they're still not getting used to it after playing many games. It's annoying and I think they should do something about it, if not change it back.
I'd be fine if they just made it more noticeable if they didn't want to change it back.
I liked the suggestion someone made to have it lightly pulse with a red tint when you've idle workers.
What do you think?
Poll: Should something be done?Change it back to the old button (537) 68% Keep it the way it is (142) 18% Make it more noticeable somehow (113) 14% 792 total votes Your vote: Should something be done? (Vote): Keep it the way it is
(Vote): Change it back to the old button
(Vote): Make it more noticeable somehow
edit: I should have made a gif of the zerg ui, it's worse since it blends in quite a bit more. it'd be nice if you could customize your UI/layout somewhat
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Totally agree with it, it's WAY too hard to see.
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the problem with the idle worker going back to WoL style would mean that they need to somehow make that idle army tab looks clean as well.
Personally I find the idle worker in Hots kinda ok but the idle army tab is pointless
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Yes. I am pressing CTRL + F1 from time to time to check it out, it's stupid because the notification is supposed to warn me like in WoL, after 4-5 months playing HoTS I'm voting yes, bring back the old Idle Worker button, we can't be used to the new one.
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it's fine, you have hotkeys, so bind idle worker to an appropriate hotkey. I play zerg so this really doesn't bother me, toss and terran should both be shift-q'ing their workers anyways.
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I can certainly agree that the idle worker indication is much more impactful when outside the UI as the visual difference is far more noticable, but, It seems like a matter of just getting used to the new layout (warpgate/army/idle worker/clock differences) as we've been using the same UI for close to 3 years now (or more if you played the beta). Do you have a similar problem to the warpgate hotkey change or clock as well?
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United States7166 Posts
I've heard people complain about the warpgate button too, but I don't play protoss so I don't know
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People need the idle worker button to be visible?
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I have to say I got used to it during the beta. At first its pretty damn hard to notice but now I dont have any issues with the new design
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Agree it's harder to notice but this button overall removes little bit awareness of the game. So either make it very noticeable, for example blinking color or just remove completely.
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On February 09 2013 02:56 Zelniq wrote:
I've heard people complain about the warpgate button too, but I don't play protoss so I don't know
I'm curious if any good protoss is complaining about the warpgate button, cose I'm pretty sure most P's spam the warpgate key instead of watching the screen for it.
On topic, I second this, I got very pissed for the smaller Idle worker icon even after a couple of months with hots beta.
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Totally agree with you there! One of the most annoying things regarding the interface atm.
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Knew I wouldn't be the only one thinking this!!
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It needs to flash like something from a treasure chest. Little twirl of sparkle or something.
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I think it's less obvious, but people just aren't used to it either. After a while, I kinda doubt anyone will care.
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I don't really think it's less noticeable. They actually moved it closer to the game timer and the minimap, which are things you should be looking at. If it's greyed out, you know you're fine, and the moment it lights up, bam! idle worker. I prefer it where it is.
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If they want to keep it in that position, make it red or yellow so it stands out more.
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Holy ahmg! I made a thread about this on the Blizzard forums for HotS and all I got was a bunch of the standard, "Just adapt to something new you stupid twat" style responses. Glad to see I'm not alone. I hate the new button!
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well, I play zerg and am learning terran. Zerg rarely has idle workers since our workers become buildings. While learning Terran, I had to be aware of idle workers anyways, so I've adapted.
It's so funny how particular the community is about what features make the game too hard and too easy and whether things should go in either direction. What do we really want?
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It's annoying and I would like for them to revert it back. But it's not a huge deal IMO, I've already begun hitting control + my idle worker hotkey every now and then just to be safe.
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Yeah, it's just stupid. Why change something if we're already used to it or not only that but make it worst. They should make it the old way and put the timer back in the same place too.
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Yeah, they should move back to the old button, same for Warpgates, it's pretty annoying. I've been playing tons of HotS, and it still annoys me.
And while we are at it, remove the select all army button. It fulfills no purpose and just clutters your UI.
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I found it hard to notice too when i started playing beta, but after some time i adapted to it and don't really care now, still i don't see the benefit of where it is now.
(Actually i think that the icon's new place improved my macro a bit by forcing me to actively care more about idle workers, because the new icon doesn't just jump into your sight. You have to be more aware of that shit overall.)
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I wish there was an option to have the old button... i have played like 400 games hots and i still can't get used to it.
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lol i think its completely fine, i like it much better this way. less stuff on screen = good for me
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jaeh lets make it automatic go to next expand ....
why everyone wants everything so easy ? for me i like it now more, let it liket his plz ^^
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I agree it's slightly harder to notice than in WoL, but I'm not convinced this is a bad thing necessarily. I think people can get used to it, even if that means they just have to be a bit more aware of the more subtle visibility.
If the goal with the button is to really draw the user's attention, though, we can safely say it's a step back from WoL.
Btw people seriously look at the warp gate icon to see how many Gates are ready? Just group all your gates and you can see *exactly* when and how many are ready to warp in, or just spam W until you can warp ^_^
I agree the 'select all army units' button / hotkey should be removed though, totally retarded. I doubt even low level players (intended audience for that feature) are using that.
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i just want to know why the game timer had to be moved. have you noticed that EVERY streamer suffers from having a non-HotS overlay? i can't see their timer b/c they moved it 2 inches to the right lol...
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Hmm, I don't mind, I just Ctrl + t3hhotkey when I want to put back my guys to work, and I don't really want to know how many are slacking off :D
Btw, as Terran, more so that P or Z, this is a very useful hotkey, so be sure to bind it to something accessible.
Let's say you're kiting with hellions early game. Between the shots, I have the time to hit a screen save button to my main, grab SCVs, build a bunch of buildings, and go back to my hellions without losing DPS, but I oftentimes don't have enough extra time to shift-queue the builders back to the minerals. This is the part of the usual building process that requires the most precision and it takes me a little more time, so I just don't do it when microing heavily and hit Idle Workers instead to put the guys back when I have the time.
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....really this deserves a thread? Unless you are blind as a bat, the worker button is like less then a inch lower then it was in wol......and next your ur in game timer which you should be paying attention to 24/7 anyways...really wonder about some people lol, its above ur mini map which you should always been paying attention to, pretty hard to miss the idle worker.
It's a new game, imo people should never complain about silly things like this, even funny when people complain about the hotkeys....guys its a new game new units, different buttons, why on earth you want it to be exactly like wol is beyond me.
You can always edit the hotkeys to your liking along with adding w/e hotkey you want to your idle worker and u can check that way, much faster anyway then looking to see if you have any idle workers.
Just adapt to a new game.
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On February 09 2013 04:15 Beakyboo wrote:
I think it's less obvious, but people just aren't used to it either. After a while, I kinda doubt anyone will care.
I stopped playuing Wings of Liberty and I've been playing HoTS since september (one of the first Beta invites), and I still can't notice it. Blizzard needs to fix it.
It's too "hidden In the UI". The old notification was a pop-up on the terrain, it was better.
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On February 10 2013 04:34 LingBlingBling wrote:
....really this deserves a thread? Unless you are blind as a bat, the worker button is like less then a inch lower then it was in wol......and next your ur in game timer which you should be paying attention to 24/7 anyways...really wonder about some people lol, its above ur mini map which you should always been paying attention to, pretty hard to miss the idle worker.
It's a new game, imo people should never complain about silly things like this, even funny when people complain about the hotkeys....guys its a new game new units, different buttons, why on earth you want it to be exactly like wol is beyond me.
You can always edit the hotkeys to your liking along with adding w/e hotkey you want to your idle worker and u can check that way, much faster anyway then looking to see if you have any idle workers.
Just adapt to a new game.
Your logic is here questionable. Why change the button to an obviously worse place? It's generally agreed the other spot was easier to notice. There's no good reason to change it in the first place.
It's not a completely new game, it's an expansion. Don't change a good thing.
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Ooooooh..
Voted to bring it back.
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Definitely rougher for players learning. It's one of those things that's specifically supposed to be noticeable and it totally looks like it gets lost in the UI.
I can't imagine why it was changed in the first place, I don't know anyone who complained about it making the screen too busy.
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I don't think you have to change it back if they make the contrast more noticeable when it blinks/lights up. It's not really that hard to fix.
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i press F1 quite often anyway and watch my eco, idk why we would need to make it more noticable.
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While they're at it adding an option for the old WoL Warpgate button is also a good thing.
Although if it's on the left side near the idle worker button it'll be better.
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I personally like it. It is closer to the Minimap, so important information closer together.
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Completely agree that something needs to be done about the idle worker button. At the very minimum if they don't move it it needs to rapidly fade in and out.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
I am much, much much more bothered about the timer switching position. Its something i unconsciously glance at as a tool of the game in any kind of normal game (though i can go 10 minutes without looking at it if shit gets crazy - its those games where i dont associate at all or even check against pre-known timings and think Oh shit, its 15 min. My main is running out of minerals.. oops)
When you look at something 3-5x+ a minute or even a lot more unconsciously, it's a massive disturbance to have it moved - i could get used to it, but the new position is much harder to quickly fix eyes on - its a small box, its not at the edge of the screen any more
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I don't mind and in fact it is harder to miss as it is closer to the minimap but they should make it more noticable like change the color to a blinking red or something alike that indicates a warning.
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I like the new design, because it fits better into the UI. For me it's even more visible because it is in close proximity to the minimap. I wouldn't like it if the idle worker button would have a pulsating graphic effect because that would distract me. If I let workers stand around idle, I need to be punished by the opponent rather than by a pulsating graphics.
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Canada1180 Posts
I actually like it the way it is. I mean I don't use it in HotS at all cause it's too hard to see, but in WoL, I feel like it was too much of a distraction. When you play Terran sometimes syou want idle workers (when building a supply depot wall) but since I'm bordeline OCD I hated having this button there.
Maybe put it as an option, I believe giving the choice to the player is always the smart decision.
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Agree, I don't even have the idle workers hotkey in wol, It's so easy to just click on the icon and send the scvs to work.
It's terrible in HotS, the UI is not something I ever focus my eyes during a match.
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I definitely do NOT like the new button, no alerts, nothing.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
If you will use custom UIs, then it will be easier to notice that button. Here is an example
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qdYDmdQ.png)
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I totally agree , this is one of the first things I noticed when I started playing the HOTS beta . T_T
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and here I thought TL was all about making the game harder. aren't people looking at their minimap constantly? it's just a hair's edge of your eye ball to look up. funny, that a simple UI change would make people so upset when you should have the function hotkeyed so that you are pressing it every once in awhile with the rest of your gosu APM.
personally I thought the pop-up of idle worker looked stupid and out of place, we never had that in BW and was another APM sink to look for workers who were idle. You guys are spoiled.
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This is the reason why I'm loading up WoL instead of HotS beta today. I'm glad they're trying new things out, but this change makes it pretty damn impossible to see the idle workers.
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I have to say that's a very descriptive gif you made there. Good Job!
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On February 10 2013 22:56 Cyro wrote:
I am much, much much more bothered about the timer switching position. Its something i unconsciously glance at as a tool of the game in any kind of normal game (though i can go 10 minutes without looking at it if shit gets crazy - its those games where i dont associate at all or even check against pre-known timings and think Oh shit, its 15 min. My main is running out of minerals.. oops)
When you look at something 3-5x+ a minute or even a lot more unconsciously, it's a massive disturbance to have it moved - i could get used to it, but the new position is much harder to quickly fix eyes on - its a small box, its not at the edge of the screen any more
Yeah I agree... everybody uses the timer, and it's just not in a normal place anymore. Feels like it is floating somewhere random now.
But while I'm at it, I'd definitely like the idle worker and gate production options back in the old places where you would actually notice them.
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On February 12 2013 05:05 Blacklizard wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 22:56 Cyro wrote:
I am much, much much more bothered about the timer switching position. Its something i unconsciously glance at as a tool of the game in any kind of normal game (though i can go 10 minutes without looking at it if shit gets crazy - its those games where i dont associate at all or even check against pre-known timings and think Oh shit, its 15 min. My main is running out of minerals.. oops)
When you look at something 3-5x+ a minute or even a lot more unconsciously, it's a massive disturbance to have it moved - i could get used to it, but the new position is much harder to quickly fix eyes on - its a small box, its not at the edge of the screen any more Yeah I agree... everybody uses the timer, and it's just not in a normal place anymore. Feels like it is floating somewhere random now. But while I'm at it, I'd definitely like the idle worker and gate production options back in the old places where you would actually notice them.
The new position for the timer makes way more sense right now.
If you draw an imaginary line from where you eyes have to travel from the the resources panel to the minimap, you'll see that the place where it is at right now in HotS, it's the best.
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it's quite frustrating. I imagine it's way worse for Terran currently.
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I've gotten used to it. I don't mind it, really. I think the best change would be to have it light up more noticeably. The red glow thing is a good suggestion.
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I prefer it the way it is, to be honest. I hate unnecessary clutter on my screen from UI stuff.
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On February 09 2013 02:38 ETisME wrote:
the problem with the idle worker going back to WoL style would mean that they need to somehow make that idle army tab looks clean as well.
Personally I find the idle worker in Hots kinda ok but the idle army tab is pointless
Remove that one :D
Are people actually using it? ;o
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I bet if the situation were reversed, and we were experiencing a change from the HotS way to the WoL way, people would get all up in arms about Blizzard making the game too easy. "Hey, I've learned to check the idle worker count and that's part of being a good player, and now it just screams in your face Blizzard is clueless DB and DK should be fired zomg", or something along those lines.
Personally, I like that they are removing clutter from the UI. Keep it the way it is.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
In my opinion, if you're going to have an "Idle workers"-button, change it back to the WoL version; the new one isn't of much use. As you say, it's ridiculously hard to notice which contradicts the purpose of the button.
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not only idle worker, awaiting warp unit icon too.
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Ugh... how about just removing it to make a (small) difference between the player who keeps tracks of his workers and the one who doesn't?
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On February 13 2013 08:06 Patate wrote:
Ugh... how about just removing it to make a (small) difference between the player who keeps tracks of his workers and the one who doesn't?
While I in one way agree with you, it is important to remember that it is in most cases only one race who frequently has to provide tasks to idle workers.
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The idle worker button is suppose to be part of the information layer. Not a warning system. I see no reason why it's current placement should be changed. Same goes for idle warp gate button.
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agree.
bring back old button :D!
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I don't mind too much about the warpgate key since I never really paid attention to it much in WoL anyways, but the worker key is pretty significant for me. Even though I look at the minimap, I don't notice it right way despite deflecting pretty much everything else happening that I see on minimap.
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I didn't know people actually used that even... They could remove it for all I care.
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I think this button should not exist at all =/
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On February 13 2013 08:35 QueenMortis wrote:
I think this button should not exist at all =/
Not true--it's very convenient for a good Toss player to not have to hunt down for their field Probes when wanting to plant pylons around the map.
But I mostly forget it exists at all personally so.... yeah....
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I use those buttons pretty obsessively so I've gotten used to them. Unrelated Tip: rebind select all army to Alt. You can either grab everything like that or Alt+CTRL+Click a certain type of unit out of it and add it to a different hotkey very quickly.
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I recall grubby complaining about this some time ago. Still no change...
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On February 13 2013 08:20 kyllinghest wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 08:06 Patate wrote:
Ugh... how about just removing it to make a (small) difference between the player who keeps tracks of his workers and the one who doesn't? While I in one way agree with you, it is important to remember that it is in most cases only one race who frequently has to provide tasks to idle workers.
Meh, it would cause a very small imbalance but it would be more impactful for skill than race.
When you try to balance everything, you get a game that looks so artificial and without taste.
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I would at least like the option to use the WOL format
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wow...... This community is so rediculous. If they made the button easier to see, a bunch of people would be on here complaining that bliz was noobifying the game. I mean really? I didn't even notice the button moved. Just rediculous.
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Just add an option to use the old "WoL"-UI for buttontypes warp and idle workers.
It is really different, because now you need to actively look above the minimap and see if the color taint is different. In WoL you glanced and saw, ok there is something and you immediately knew, you had idle workers....
The same with warpin.
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On February 10 2013 05:23 Atlas247 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 04:34 LingBlingBling wrote:
....really this deserves a thread? Unless you are blind as a bat, the worker button is like less then a inch lower then it was in wol......and next your ur in game timer which you should be paying attention to 24/7 anyways...really wonder about some people lol, its above ur mini map which you should always been paying attention to, pretty hard to miss the idle worker.
It's a new game, imo people should never complain about silly things like this, even funny when people complain about the hotkeys....guys its a new game new units, different buttons, why on earth you want it to be exactly like wol is beyond me.
You can always edit the hotkeys to your liking along with adding w/e hotkey you want to your idle worker and u can check that way, much faster anyway then looking to see if you have any idle workers.
Just adapt to a new game. Your logic is here questionable. Why change the button to an obviously worse place? It's generally agreed the other spot was easier to notice. There's no good reason to change it in the first place. It's not a completely new game, it's an expansion. Don't change a good thing.
Because your logic is to cry about something so stupid that makes little to no sense and is 100% pointless to cry about something that was lowered a inch lower on screen vs the million other issues like Unit balance on hots.
I question op who make threads like this, sometimes I just think people create threads like this, just to cry about something. It's the same hot key as wol, if you can't press F1 something is wrong with you. Blizzard has million more pressing issues then to cater to really stupid things like this.
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Why did they even change it? its not gonna fix the balance of the game...
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On February 09 2013 02:56 Zelniq wrote:
I've heard people complain about the warpgate button too, but I don't play protoss so I don't know
It makes a huge difference to me, I've basically had to retrain myself - I was using the icon as a cue to go do a warp-in cycle, and without it, I'll ocasionally go ridiculously long stretches without realizing that my gates are on cooldown. Losing games because a visual cue I'd trained myself to use is gone is really frustrating.
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Yes i totally agree with getting it back into the WoL style.
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I don't think there should be a idle worker notification at all. I'm not against things that makes the game easier but think this is too much.
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Seriously, how many of you actually care when they see the idle worker icon? I certainly can't be bothered to care about this. Didn't even know it's an ISSUE, before this thread.
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On February 14 2013 07:28 Inex wrote:
Seriously, how many of you actually care when they see the idle worker icon? I certainly can't be bothered to care about this. Didn't even know it's an ISSUE, before this thread.
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.
Are you saying that when you see X amount of idle workers, you just leave them be and ignore them, rather than putting them to collecting resources or other alternatives?
When you have idle workers, it is of significant importance to put them to work a.s.a.p. ~_~
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It was so easy to see the old one. I hope they give the option to have either choice.
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I honestly never knew there was one...
But, now that I know, I don't like the old one so much, as it just hides that much more of the map. For those that use it, they should probably just leave it where it is (HotS), but make it more visible, or less invisible, whichever you like :p
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I remember a time where anyone lived without any worker idle button.
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Or we could just remove that buttom?
It's your own fault if you have idle workers, no need for the game to tell you so.
Plus you look in t hat corner anyways for minimap and game timer, shouldn't be too hard to notice whether your idle worker buttom is blue or grayed out..
I don't think the hots one is harder/easier to notice than the wol one, I just wish you could atleast turn the feature off.
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agree, I never notice it any more. definitely like the old one better.
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I like the new one, the old one is kind of annoying, usually because I know I have an idle worker for some reason but this big button just keeps bothering me, new one is better.
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On February 14 2013 07:09 Sjokola wrote:
I don't think there should be a idle worker notification at all. I'm not against things that makes the game easier but think this is too much.
It allows new players to have better times. It also helps good players to focus on other things which make the game more enjoyable for watchers.
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Making a game hard because it has a bad interface is the worst excuse for game design that I can think of.
It is like people preferring etch-a-sketch over photoshop because it took skills.
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On February 15 2013 00:44 Fenris420 wrote:
Making a game hard because it has a bad interface is the worst excuse for game design that I can think of. I remember a day in 2010 when people said putting that idle worker button was part of an attempt to remove skill from the game, and was the most horrible idea Blizzard had ever had.
Now we have a two third majority saying to bring it back exactly as it was. This means something either very good or very bad about the community, I'm not sure which.
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Have to disagree, I love the way it is, I use it a lot more in HOTS than I ever did in WoL. I also love the "Grab all army" button.
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After a few games in HOTS I keep forgetting about drones that I sent to take my third or fourth.
Playing Zerg there was many uses -beside the obvious 'Get To Work Lazy Drone !' - of the old button that a smart player could make to plan some actions in advance :
- sending a drone to an expo without spending the money
- putting a drone in an unusual place to hide some tech
- sending a drone in advance to remind me to build a crucial tech building
So even if you race/playstyle doesn't make you use it, don't say it's useless.
Please BliBli, give us back our lovely idle worker button (and the timer could be more visible too) !
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On February 15 2013 23:45 houstil wrote:
After a few games in HOTS I keep forgetting about drones that I sent to take my third or fourth.
Playing Zerg there was many uses -beside the obvious 'Get To Work Lazy Drone !' - of the old button that a smart player could make to plan some actions in advance :
- sending a drone to an expo without spending the money
- putting a drone in an unusual place to hide some tech
- sending a drone in advance to remind me to build a crucial tech building
So even if you race/playstyle doesn't make you use it, don't say it's useless.
Please BliBli, give us back our lovely idle worker button (and the timer could be more visible too) !
Yes exactly my words.
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In WoL I usually had no idle worker. now I have 10 SCVs chilling all round my base 20 minutes into the game. It's really hard to notice
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On February 16 2013 04:30 SHODAN wrote:
In WoL I usually had no idle worker. now I have 10 SCVs chilling all round my base 20 minutes into the game. It's really hard to notice
Yeah I had that problem when I tried out HoTS as well. Also System Shock 2 ftw 
I'm sure after a few days of grinding out some games people will get used to the new location though.
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On February 16 2013 04:30 SHODAN wrote:
In WoL I usually had no idle worker. now I have 10 SCVs chilling all round my base 20 minutes into the game. It's really hard to notice
Isn't scrolling through control groups, hitting the "return to townhall/backspace key," and hitting the center on idle worker key on a regular basis all part of macroing better?
For example; wouldn't it be easy mode if we could have an icon to remind us that we haven't made dudes out of our structures, maybe even have a hotkey to automatically select those structures so when we see that we haven't built anything we can just instantly warp- wait a minute....
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On February 16 2013 08:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 04:30 SHODAN wrote:
In WoL I usually had no idle worker. now I have 10 SCVs chilling all round my base 20 minutes into the game. It's really hard to notice Isn't scrolling through control groups, hitting the "return to townhall/backspace key," and hitting the center on idle worker key on a regular basis all part of macroing better? For example; wouldn't it be easy mode if we could have an icon to remind us that we haven't made dudes out of our structures, maybe even have a hotkey to automatically select those structures so when we see that we haven't built anything we can just instantly warp- wait a minute....
I have no idea why you're bringing that up xd
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On February 16 2013 04:30 SHODAN wrote:
In WoL I usually had no idle worker. now I have 10 SCVs chilling all round my base 20 minutes into the game. It's really hard to notice
You should notice a a huge income deficit.
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On February 16 2013 05:03 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 04:30 SHODAN wrote:
In WoL I usually had no idle worker. now I have 10 SCVs chilling all round my base 20 minutes into the game. It's really hard to notice Yeah I had that problem when I tried out HoTS as well. Also System Shock 2 ftw I'm sure after a few days of grinding out some games people will get used to the new location though.
Having mass gamed HotS for two months now, I still haven't gotten used to it. :[
Bring back the old one!
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Definitely agree, it is very hard to notice that I have idle workers and I would like for blizzard to revert it back to the way it is in WoL.
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I think it is a lot better now because it is closer to the minimap. When ever you are not doing something you look at the minimap, when you are doing things you don't need to look at the screen while doing you look at the minimap, when you are going in for a attack you first look at the minimap. All of those times your eyes cross the idle worker icon now. I don't think I ever noticed it in WoL as it was in a place I pretty much would never look. The only things there is some text that stuff finished building I think, but they also made a sound witch is much easier to notice.
Edit: I know it's is barely even a cm lower on my screen than before. But I feel it have made a huge difference.
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On February 17 2013 14:24 Zerum wrote:
I think it is a lot better now because it is closer to the minimap. When ever you are not doing something you look at the minimap, when you are doing things you don't need to look at the screen while doing you look at the minimap, when you are going in for a attack you first look at the minimap. All of those times your eyes cross the idle worker icon now. I don't think I ever noticed it in WoL as it was in a place I pretty much would never look. The only things there is some text that stuff finished building I think, but they also made a sound witch is much easier to notice.
Edit: I know it's is barely even a cm lower on my screen than before. But I feel it have made a huge difference.
I agree. We are expected to notice a tiny red dot on the minimap when a drop is coming but having to look at the worker idle indicator instead of having it flash up at us it too much? People just need to adapt.
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On February 14 2013 09:42 Celestia wrote:
I like the new one, the old one is kind of annoying, usually because I know I have an idle worker for some reason but this big button just keeps bothering me, new one is better.
The point of a notification, is to notice you, right ? If you can't see it clearly, this is a problem. If you want to ignore this kind of important information it's fine, but it's a problem for a ton of players right now.
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yes, it is harder to read...i use ~ key to find out where my idle workers are....
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Agree a lot !
Hard to notice idle workers
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How about making the players choose which symbol we want? Do something in the gameplay menu in option where you can click a box to choose if you want WoL style or HotS style.
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They put this change into the WoL patch.
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They should make it a giant pop up in the middle of the screen!
Seriously, this sounds like a change people love to hate instead of having credible concerns. They moved it to a location you should be paying attention to, and the hotkey(s) for the function are the same. If you can teach yourself to use the old button, you can teach yourself to use the new one.
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This thread won't die.....
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yar it does piss me off since i play zerg especially lol but at the same time its kinda like it'll make it harder to separate top players from the next tier below them if there was no idle worker button at all O_O (voted for WOL idle worker button tho :D )
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On February 20 2013 05:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:This thread won't die.....
Why would it die?
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It's just because were used to the WoL button, it's neater this way I think. Just give it time and we'll get used to it.
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On February 20 2013 05:32 aksfjh wrote:Why would it die?
Its a thread about the size of a tiny square that was smaller than a Thor and now is still smaller than a Thor in the same corner of the screen...
It's like someone whining about screen ratio, shade density, splash shape of overlord blood, etc....
It's meaningless.
If someone whined that Stalkers shoot whitish blue shots and not something more clear like red shots the thread would be closed. This one isn't.
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On February 20 2013 07:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 05:32 aksfjh wrote:On February 20 2013 05:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:This thread won't die..... Why would it die? Its a thread about the size of a tiny square that was smaller than a Thor and now is still smaller than a Thor in the same corner of the screen... It's like someone whining about screen ratio, shade density, splash shape of overlord blood, etc.... It's meaningless.
It means whole hell of a lot to a whole hell of a lot of pros who have played hundreds of games with it in HotS Beta, and now the shitty feature has been implemented in WoL.
You're the only one who thinks this way, it's not meaningless, and in all likelihood you will never be as good as some of the people "whining" in a million, billion fucking years. When Grubby, Zelniq, Pokebunny, the cast of State of the Game, and a shitload of other people are not happy with this UI change, you are blatantly wrong.
If someone whined that Stalkers shoot whitish blue shots and not something more clear like red shots the thread would be closed. This one isn't.
People can see stalker shots because they are bright whitish-blue shots that have stark contrast to basically everything on the screen behind them. That's how the old Idle Worker button was, too--it was a techy-colored navy blue icon that was contrasted to the map in the background. And it went from being non-existent to being there, not from being gray to being blue. This change is ENORMOUS. If you don't think that's the case, you've probably never used the icon in the first place...in which case, what stake do you even have in this discussion?
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On February 20 2013 11:34 ineversmile wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 07:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:On February 20 2013 05:32 aksfjh wrote:On February 20 2013 05:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:This thread won't die..... Why would it die? Its a thread about the size of a tiny square that was smaller than a Thor and now is still smaller than a Thor in the same corner of the screen... It's like someone whining about screen ratio, shade density, splash shape of overlord blood, etc.... It's meaningless. It means whole hell of a lot to a whole hell of a lot of pros who have played hundreds of games with it in HotS Beta, and now the shitty feature has been implemented in WoL. You're the only one who thinks this way, it's not meaningless, and in all likelihood you will never be as good as some of the people "whining" in a million, billion fucking years. When Grubby, Zelniq, Pokebunny, the cast of State of the Game, and a shitload of other people are not happy with this UI change, you are blatantly wrong. Show nested quote +If someone whined that Stalkers shoot whitish blue shots and not something more clear like red shots the thread would be closed. This one isn't. People can see stalker shots because they are bright whitish-blue shots that have stark contrast to basically everything on the screen behind them. That's how the old Idle Worker button was, too--it was a techy-colored navy blue icon that was contrasted to the map in the background. And it went from being non-existent to being there, not from being gray to being blue. This change is ENORMOUS. If you don't think that's the case, you've probably never used the icon in the first place...in which case, what stake do you even have in this discussion?
So, why not advocate for a giant icon and warning in the middle of your screen instead of a slightly different icon at the lower left that seems out of place?
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United States7166 Posts
your sarcasm doesn't make any interesting points, aksfjh. obviously the icon should not get in the way for the player, but it should be noticeable enough that most people will notice it. as of right now, the majority of players, many pros included, do not notice it, despite looking at minimap. it's because the color blends in with the race-specific UI around the bottom panel, like the zergy spines crawling all over the ui, it's the same color and same type of look, making it pretty hard to notice. also there's a select army button next to it that looks the same, that doesn't help either.
if you go into a replay, you won't get a race-specific ui and you'll see a default, very plain metallic UI around the bottom panel, and so even if they had the new idle worker button that we're complaining about, it would be a lot more noticeable cus it would not blend in with the surroundings.
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On February 20 2013 11:34 ineversmile wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 07:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:On February 20 2013 05:32 aksfjh wrote:On February 20 2013 05:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:This thread won't die..... Why would it die? Its a thread about the size of a tiny square that was smaller than a Thor and now is still smaller than a Thor in the same corner of the screen... It's like someone whining about screen ratio, shade density, splash shape of overlord blood, etc.... It's meaningless. It means whole hell of a lot to a whole hell of a lot of pros who have played hundreds of games with it in HotS Beta, and now the shitty feature has been implemented in WoL. You're the only one who thinks this way, it's not meaningless, and in all likelihood you will never be as good as some of the people "whining" in a million, billion fucking years. When Grubby, Zelniq, Pokebunny, the cast of State of the Game, and a shitload of other people are not happy with this UI change, you are blatantly wrong. Show nested quote +If someone whined that Stalkers shoot whitish blue shots and not something more clear like red shots the thread would be closed. This one isn't. People can see stalker shots because they are bright whitish-blue shots that have stark contrast to basically everything on the screen behind them. That's how the old Idle Worker button was, too--it was a techy-colored navy blue icon that was contrasted to the map in the background. And it went from being non-existent to being there, not from being gray to being blue. This change is ENORMOUS. If you don't think that's the case, you've probably never used the icon in the first place...in which case, what stake do you even have in this discussion?
You're right...
We must remove features that we find difficult to learn. Thank you, I didn't realize that.
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On February 20 2013 12:27 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 11:34 ineversmile wrote:On February 20 2013 07:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:On February 20 2013 05:32 aksfjh wrote:On February 20 2013 05:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:This thread won't die..... Why would it die? Its a thread about the size of a tiny square that was smaller than a Thor and now is still smaller than a Thor in the same corner of the screen... It's like someone whining about screen ratio, shade density, splash shape of overlord blood, etc.... It's meaningless. It means whole hell of a lot to a whole hell of a lot of pros who have played hundreds of games with it in HotS Beta, and now the shitty feature has been implemented in WoL. You're the only one who thinks this way, it's not meaningless, and in all likelihood you will never be as good as some of the people "whining" in a million, billion fucking years. When Grubby, Zelniq, Pokebunny, the cast of State of the Game, and a shitload of other people are not happy with this UI change, you are blatantly wrong. If someone whined that Stalkers shoot whitish blue shots and not something more clear like red shots the thread would be closed. This one isn't. People can see stalker shots because they are bright whitish-blue shots that have stark contrast to basically everything on the screen behind them. That's how the old Idle Worker button was, too--it was a techy-colored navy blue icon that was contrasted to the map in the background. And it went from being non-existent to being there, not from being gray to being blue. This change is ENORMOUS. If you don't think that's the case, you've probably never used the icon in the first place...in which case, what stake do you even have in this discussion? So, why not advocate for a giant icon and warning in the middle of your screen instead of a slightly different icon at the lower left that seems out of place?
You're making a pretty big deal about the people making a big deal about it. All anyone is asking for is the WoL idle worker setup back, that is far from unreasonable. They didn't need to change it, all it has done is made playing the game more annoying than it has to be....for presumably no reason at all.
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On February 21 2013 02:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 12:27 aksfjh wrote:On February 20 2013 11:34 ineversmile wrote:On February 20 2013 07:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:On February 20 2013 05:32 aksfjh wrote:On February 20 2013 05:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:This thread won't die..... Why would it die? Its a thread about the size of a tiny square that was smaller than a Thor and now is still smaller than a Thor in the same corner of the screen... It's like someone whining about screen ratio, shade density, splash shape of overlord blood, etc.... It's meaningless. It means whole hell of a lot to a whole hell of a lot of pros who have played hundreds of games with it in HotS Beta, and now the shitty feature has been implemented in WoL. You're the only one who thinks this way, it's not meaningless, and in all likelihood you will never be as good as some of the people "whining" in a million, billion fucking years. When Grubby, Zelniq, Pokebunny, the cast of State of the Game, and a shitload of other people are not happy with this UI change, you are blatantly wrong. If someone whined that Stalkers shoot whitish blue shots and not something more clear like red shots the thread would be closed. This one isn't. People can see stalker shots because they are bright whitish-blue shots that have stark contrast to basically everything on the screen behind them. That's how the old Idle Worker button was, too--it was a techy-colored navy blue icon that was contrasted to the map in the background. And it went from being non-existent to being there, not from being gray to being blue. This change is ENORMOUS. If you don't think that's the case, you've probably never used the icon in the first place...in which case, what stake do you even have in this discussion? So, why not advocate for a giant icon and warning in the middle of your screen instead of a slightly different icon at the lower left that seems out of place? You're making a pretty big deal about the people making a big deal about it. All anyone is asking for is the WoL idle worker setup back, that is far from unreasonable. They didn't need to change it, all it has done is made playing the game more annoying than it has to be....for presumably no reason at all.
I'm commenting because it's a ridiculous complaint in the first place. It boils down to people simply not liking change. Notice there aren't outcries to make it more noticeable in the current layout, but simply "change it back!"
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On February 21 2013 03:39 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 02:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 20 2013 12:27 aksfjh wrote:On February 20 2013 11:34 ineversmile wrote:On February 20 2013 07:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:On February 20 2013 05:32 aksfjh wrote:On February 20 2013 05:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:This thread won't die..... Why would it die? Its a thread about the size of a tiny square that was smaller than a Thor and now is still smaller than a Thor in the same corner of the screen... It's like someone whining about screen ratio, shade density, splash shape of overlord blood, etc.... It's meaningless. It means whole hell of a lot to a whole hell of a lot of pros who have played hundreds of games with it in HotS Beta, and now the shitty feature has been implemented in WoL. You're the only one who thinks this way, it's not meaningless, and in all likelihood you will never be as good as some of the people "whining" in a million, billion fucking years. When Grubby, Zelniq, Pokebunny, the cast of State of the Game, and a shitload of other people are not happy with this UI change, you are blatantly wrong. If someone whined that Stalkers shoot whitish blue shots and not something more clear like red shots the thread would be closed. This one isn't. People can see stalker shots because they are bright whitish-blue shots that have stark contrast to basically everything on the screen behind them. That's how the old Idle Worker button was, too--it was a techy-colored navy blue icon that was contrasted to the map in the background. And it went from being non-existent to being there, not from being gray to being blue. This change is ENORMOUS. If you don't think that's the case, you've probably never used the icon in the first place...in which case, what stake do you even have in this discussion? So, why not advocate for a giant icon and warning in the middle of your screen instead of a slightly different icon at the lower left that seems out of place? You're making a pretty big deal about the people making a big deal about it. All anyone is asking for is the WoL idle worker setup back, that is far from unreasonable. They didn't need to change it, all it has done is made playing the game more annoying than it has to be....for presumably no reason at all. I'm commenting because it's a ridiculous complaint in the first place. It boils down to people simply not liking change. Notice there aren't outcries to make it more noticeable in the current layout, but simply "change it back!"
So why not just change it back??? There was no reason to change it in the first place. And I don't see how it's "ridiculous" at all, especially when you have notable progamers complaining about it.
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I have way more idle workers in HotS than WoL. I don't even notice the damn icon unless I actively look for it.
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On February 21 2013 03:50 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 03:39 aksfjh wrote:On February 21 2013 02:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 20 2013 12:27 aksfjh wrote:On February 20 2013 11:34 ineversmile wrote:On February 20 2013 07:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:On February 20 2013 05:32 aksfjh wrote:On February 20 2013 05:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:This thread won't die..... Why would it die? Its a thread about the size of a tiny square that was smaller than a Thor and now is still smaller than a Thor in the same corner of the screen... It's like someone whining about screen ratio, shade density, splash shape of overlord blood, etc.... It's meaningless. It means whole hell of a lot to a whole hell of a lot of pros who have played hundreds of games with it in HotS Beta, and now the shitty feature has been implemented in WoL. You're the only one who thinks this way, it's not meaningless, and in all likelihood you will never be as good as some of the people "whining" in a million, billion fucking years. When Grubby, Zelniq, Pokebunny, the cast of State of the Game, and a shitload of other people are not happy with this UI change, you are blatantly wrong. If someone whined that Stalkers shoot whitish blue shots and not something more clear like red shots the thread would be closed. This one isn't. People can see stalker shots because they are bright whitish-blue shots that have stark contrast to basically everything on the screen behind them. That's how the old Idle Worker button was, too--it was a techy-colored navy blue icon that was contrasted to the map in the background. And it went from being non-existent to being there, not from being gray to being blue. This change is ENORMOUS. If you don't think that's the case, you've probably never used the icon in the first place...in which case, what stake do you even have in this discussion? So, why not advocate for a giant icon and warning in the middle of your screen instead of a slightly different icon at the lower left that seems out of place? You're making a pretty big deal about the people making a big deal about it. All anyone is asking for is the WoL idle worker setup back, that is far from unreasonable. They didn't need to change it, all it has done is made playing the game more annoying than it has to be....for presumably no reason at all. I'm commenting because it's a ridiculous complaint in the first place. It boils down to people simply not liking change. Notice there aren't outcries to make it more noticeable in the current layout, but simply "change it back!" So why not just change it back??? There was no reason to change it in the first place. And I don't see how it's "ridiculous" at all, especially when you have notable progamers complaining about it.
Because they've devoted resources into creating a more visually appealing UI, as well as moved those things around for new features (like the army button). The old way was obviously cluttered, but we all got "used" to it. Reverting back would mean they have to rethink the army button as well, which I'm sure would spawn another topic about the UI being cluttered and Blizzard being stupid or something.
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this is blizzard we are dealing with here, are we surprised that its taking forever to make obvious changes?
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you shouldn't have idle workers in the first place and it's your fault if you have. This game is losing so many skill ceilings. I mean the worker count is terrible to begin with and just reduces the differences bewtween a good and a bad player. I wouldn't be surpirised if they added an automatic build order you chose from and the game does it for you. why don't we just bet on ais fighting each other
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On February 21 2013 05:02 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 03:50 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 21 2013 03:39 aksfjh wrote:On February 21 2013 02:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 20 2013 12:27 aksfjh wrote:On February 20 2013 11:34 ineversmile wrote:On February 20 2013 07:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:On February 20 2013 05:32 aksfjh wrote:On February 20 2013 05:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:This thread won't die..... Why would it die? Its a thread about the size of a tiny square that was smaller than a Thor and now is still smaller than a Thor in the same corner of the screen... It's like someone whining about screen ratio, shade density, splash shape of overlord blood, etc.... It's meaningless. It means whole hell of a lot to a whole hell of a lot of pros who have played hundreds of games with it in HotS Beta, and now the shitty feature has been implemented in WoL. You're the only one who thinks this way, it's not meaningless, and in all likelihood you will never be as good as some of the people "whining" in a million, billion fucking years. When Grubby, Zelniq, Pokebunny, the cast of State of the Game, and a shitload of other people are not happy with this UI change, you are blatantly wrong. If someone whined that Stalkers shoot whitish blue shots and not something more clear like red shots the thread would be closed. This one isn't. People can see stalker shots because they are bright whitish-blue shots that have stark contrast to basically everything on the screen behind them. That's how the old Idle Worker button was, too--it was a techy-colored navy blue icon that was contrasted to the map in the background. And it went from being non-existent to being there, not from being gray to being blue. This change is ENORMOUS. If you don't think that's the case, you've probably never used the icon in the first place...in which case, what stake do you even have in this discussion? So, why not advocate for a giant icon and warning in the middle of your screen instead of a slightly different icon at the lower left that seems out of place? You're making a pretty big deal about the people making a big deal about it. All anyone is asking for is the WoL idle worker setup back, that is far from unreasonable. They didn't need to change it, all it has done is made playing the game more annoying than it has to be....for presumably no reason at all. I'm commenting because it's a ridiculous complaint in the first place. It boils down to people simply not liking change. Notice there aren't outcries to make it more noticeable in the current layout, but simply "change it back!" So why not just change it back??? There was no reason to change it in the first place. And I don't see how it's "ridiculous" at all, especially when you have notable progamers complaining about it. Because they've devoted resources into creating a more visually appealing UI, as well as moved those things around for new features (like the army button). The old way was obviously cluttered, but we all got "used" to it. Reverting back would mean they have to rethink the army button as well, which I'm sure would spawn another topic about the UI being cluttered and Blizzard being stupid or something.
What was cluttered about the old Idle Worker button? It was a lot more noticeable than the new one so I don't see why we shouldn't lobby for getting back the old one.
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The new IG interface sux imo. Why did they have to change it ?
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It should not have to be so noticeable that its sticking out out separate from the rest of the UI like it use to be. It is your responsibility to keep track of the information presented to you. Why is it that you can't take a split second once every 5 seconds to check your idle workers info within the hud yet you can watch the minimap for a 1 pixel red dot to sense incoming drops and not say that is too difficult to notice? The new idle worker button placement is still eaiser to notice than a drop on the minimap. Should we have a giant flashing alarm on our screen when there's red on the minimap? Or should we give ourselves an internal rotation during which we look at all the pieces of information presented to us on the screen?
Streamlining the hud is good for the game. The new menu placement allows the drop-down replay interface to hug the top of the screen. The new idle worker and warp gate buttons are within the hud and not just randomly placed on the play field.
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I concur with original poster. New idle worker button sucks, it is hardly noticeable. Old one was much more visible - I played about 100 battles in HotS and about 20 in WoL with new interface, and still I can't get used to new button, it is horrible.
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On February 21 2013 05:56 Baum wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 05:02 aksfjh wrote:On February 21 2013 03:50 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 21 2013 03:39 aksfjh wrote:On February 21 2013 02:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 20 2013 12:27 aksfjh wrote:On February 20 2013 11:34 ineversmile wrote:On February 20 2013 07:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:On February 20 2013 05:32 aksfjh wrote:On February 20 2013 05:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:This thread won't die..... Why would it die? Its a thread about the size of a tiny square that was smaller than a Thor and now is still smaller than a Thor in the same corner of the screen... It's like someone whining about screen ratio, shade density, splash shape of overlord blood, etc.... It's meaningless. It means whole hell of a lot to a whole hell of a lot of pros who have played hundreds of games with it in HotS Beta, and now the shitty feature has been implemented in WoL. You're the only one who thinks this way, it's not meaningless, and in all likelihood you will never be as good as some of the people "whining" in a million, billion fucking years. When Grubby, Zelniq, Pokebunny, the cast of State of the Game, and a shitload of other people are not happy with this UI change, you are blatantly wrong. If someone whined that Stalkers shoot whitish blue shots and not something more clear like red shots the thread would be closed. This one isn't. People can see stalker shots because they are bright whitish-blue shots that have stark contrast to basically everything on the screen behind them. That's how the old Idle Worker button was, too--it was a techy-colored navy blue icon that was contrasted to the map in the background. And it went from being non-existent to being there, not from being gray to being blue. This change is ENORMOUS. If you don't think that's the case, you've probably never used the icon in the first place...in which case, what stake do you even have in this discussion? So, why not advocate for a giant icon and warning in the middle of your screen instead of a slightly different icon at the lower left that seems out of place? You're making a pretty big deal about the people making a big deal about it. All anyone is asking for is the WoL idle worker setup back, that is far from unreasonable. They didn't need to change it, all it has done is made playing the game more annoying than it has to be....for presumably no reason at all. I'm commenting because it's a ridiculous complaint in the first place. It boils down to people simply not liking change. Notice there aren't outcries to make it more noticeable in the current layout, but simply "change it back!" So why not just change it back??? There was no reason to change it in the first place. And I don't see how it's "ridiculous" at all, especially when you have notable progamers complaining about it. Because they've devoted resources into creating a more visually appealing UI, as well as moved those things around for new features (like the army button). The old way was obviously cluttered, but we all got "used" to it. Reverting back would mean they have to rethink the army button as well, which I'm sure would spawn another topic about the UI being cluttered and Blizzard being stupid or something. What was cluttered about the old Idle Worker button? It was a lot more noticeable than the new one so I don't see why we shouldn't lobby for getting back the old one.
And again, if we're harking on visibility, why not put it right in the middle of the fucking screen, or in the upper right hand corner? Or upper left?
Also, it's cluttered because it doesn't actually have a proper place in the old UI. If it were removed, I doubt many people could draw a box on the screen of where it should be and get it right within 10 pixels.
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On February 21 2013 07:10 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 05:56 Baum wrote:On February 21 2013 05:02 aksfjh wrote:On February 21 2013 03:50 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 21 2013 03:39 aksfjh wrote:On February 21 2013 02:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 20 2013 12:27 aksfjh wrote:On February 20 2013 11:34 ineversmile wrote:On February 20 2013 07:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:On February 20 2013 05:32 aksfjh wrote:
[quote]
Why would it die? Its a thread about the size of a tiny square that was smaller than a Thor and now is still smaller than a Thor in the same corner of the screen... It's like someone whining about screen ratio, shade density, splash shape of overlord blood, etc.... It's meaningless. It means whole hell of a lot to a whole hell of a lot of pros who have played hundreds of games with it in HotS Beta, and now the shitty feature has been implemented in WoL. You're the only one who thinks this way, it's not meaningless, and in all likelihood you will never be as good as some of the people "whining" in a million, billion fucking years. When Grubby, Zelniq, Pokebunny, the cast of State of the Game, and a shitload of other people are not happy with this UI change, you are blatantly wrong. If someone whined that Stalkers shoot whitish blue shots and not something more clear like red shots the thread would be closed. This one isn't. People can see stalker shots because they are bright whitish-blue shots that have stark contrast to basically everything on the screen behind them. That's how the old Idle Worker button was, too--it was a techy-colored navy blue icon that was contrasted to the map in the background. And it went from being non-existent to being there, not from being gray to being blue. This change is ENORMOUS. If you don't think that's the case, you've probably never used the icon in the first place...in which case, what stake do you even have in this discussion? So, why not advocate for a giant icon and warning in the middle of your screen instead of a slightly different icon at the lower left that seems out of place? You're making a pretty big deal about the people making a big deal about it. All anyone is asking for is the WoL idle worker setup back, that is far from unreasonable. They didn't need to change it, all it has done is made playing the game more annoying than it has to be....for presumably no reason at all. I'm commenting because it's a ridiculous complaint in the first place. It boils down to people simply not liking change. Notice there aren't outcries to make it more noticeable in the current layout, but simply "change it back!" So why not just change it back??? There was no reason to change it in the first place. And I don't see how it's "ridiculous" at all, especially when you have notable progamers complaining about it. Because they've devoted resources into creating a more visually appealing UI, as well as moved those things around for new features (like the army button). The old way was obviously cluttered, but we all got "used" to it. Reverting back would mean they have to rethink the army button as well, which I'm sure would spawn another topic about the UI being cluttered and Blizzard being stupid or something. What was cluttered about the old Idle Worker button? It was a lot more noticeable than the new one so I don't see why we shouldn't lobby for getting back the old one. And again, if we're harking on visibility, why not put it right in the middle of the fucking screen, or in the upper right hand corner? Or upper left? Also, it's cluttered because it doesn't actually have a proper place in the old UI. If it were removed, I doubt many people could draw a box on the screen of where it should be and get it right within 10 pixels.
Because the old place was fine? What is a proper place? I think the old one was very proper.
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On February 21 2013 07:59 Baum wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 07:10 aksfjh wrote:On February 21 2013 05:56 Baum wrote:On February 21 2013 05:02 aksfjh wrote:On February 21 2013 03:50 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 21 2013 03:39 aksfjh wrote:On February 21 2013 02:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 20 2013 12:27 aksfjh wrote:On February 20 2013 11:34 ineversmile wrote:On February 20 2013 07:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:
[quote]
Its a thread about the size of a tiny square that was smaller than a Thor and now is still smaller than a Thor in the same corner of the screen...
It's like someone whining about screen ratio, shade density, splash shape of overlord blood, etc....
It's meaningless. It means whole hell of a lot to a whole hell of a lot of pros who have played hundreds of games with it in HotS Beta, and now the shitty feature has been implemented in WoL. You're the only one who thinks this way, it's not meaningless, and in all likelihood you will never be as good as some of the people "whining" in a million, billion fucking years. When Grubby, Zelniq, Pokebunny, the cast of State of the Game, and a shitload of other people are not happy with this UI change, you are blatantly wrong. If someone whined that Stalkers shoot whitish blue shots and not something more clear like red shots the thread would be closed. This one isn't. People can see stalker shots because they are bright whitish-blue shots that have stark contrast to basically everything on the screen behind them. That's how the old Idle Worker button was, too--it was a techy-colored navy blue icon that was contrasted to the map in the background. And it went from being non-existent to being there, not from being gray to being blue. This change is ENORMOUS. If you don't think that's the case, you've probably never used the icon in the first place...in which case, what stake do you even have in this discussion? So, why not advocate for a giant icon and warning in the middle of your screen instead of a slightly different icon at the lower left that seems out of place? You're making a pretty big deal about the people making a big deal about it. All anyone is asking for is the WoL idle worker setup back, that is far from unreasonable. They didn't need to change it, all it has done is made playing the game more annoying than it has to be....for presumably no reason at all. I'm commenting because it's a ridiculous complaint in the first place. It boils down to people simply not liking change. Notice there aren't outcries to make it more noticeable in the current layout, but simply "change it back!" So why not just change it back??? There was no reason to change it in the first place. And I don't see how it's "ridiculous" at all, especially when you have notable progamers complaining about it. Because they've devoted resources into creating a more visually appealing UI, as well as moved those things around for new features (like the army button). The old way was obviously cluttered, but we all got "used" to it. Reverting back would mean they have to rethink the army button as well, which I'm sure would spawn another topic about the UI being cluttered and Blizzard being stupid or something. What was cluttered about the old Idle Worker button? It was a lot more noticeable than the new one so I don't see why we shouldn't lobby for getting back the old one. And again, if we're harking on visibility, why not put it right in the middle of the fucking screen, or in the upper right hand corner? Or upper left? Also, it's cluttered because it doesn't actually have a proper place in the old UI. If it were removed, I doubt many people could draw a box on the screen of where it should be and get it right within 10 pixels. Because the old place was fine? What is a proper place? I think the old one was very proper.
he's saying its arbitrary. If the *need* is to be visible then a big red box with bells and whistles will be the most visible. If it needs to be present and in the corner then it doesn't really matter what it looks like.
he's saying the whiners are being dishonest.
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On February 21 2013 07:59 Baum wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 07:10 aksfjh wrote:On February 21 2013 05:56 Baum wrote:On February 21 2013 05:02 aksfjh wrote:On February 21 2013 03:50 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 21 2013 03:39 aksfjh wrote:On February 21 2013 02:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 20 2013 12:27 aksfjh wrote:On February 20 2013 11:34 ineversmile wrote:On February 20 2013 07:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:
[quote]
Its a thread about the size of a tiny square that was smaller than a Thor and now is still smaller than a Thor in the same corner of the screen...
It's like someone whining about screen ratio, shade density, splash shape of overlord blood, etc....
It's meaningless. It means whole hell of a lot to a whole hell of a lot of pros who have played hundreds of games with it in HotS Beta, and now the shitty feature has been implemented in WoL. You're the only one who thinks this way, it's not meaningless, and in all likelihood you will never be as good as some of the people "whining" in a million, billion fucking years. When Grubby, Zelniq, Pokebunny, the cast of State of the Game, and a shitload of other people are not happy with this UI change, you are blatantly wrong. If someone whined that Stalkers shoot whitish blue shots and not something more clear like red shots the thread would be closed. This one isn't. People can see stalker shots because they are bright whitish-blue shots that have stark contrast to basically everything on the screen behind them. That's how the old Idle Worker button was, too--it was a techy-colored navy blue icon that was contrasted to the map in the background. And it went from being non-existent to being there, not from being gray to being blue. This change is ENORMOUS. If you don't think that's the case, you've probably never used the icon in the first place...in which case, what stake do you even have in this discussion? So, why not advocate for a giant icon and warning in the middle of your screen instead of a slightly different icon at the lower left that seems out of place? You're making a pretty big deal about the people making a big deal about it. All anyone is asking for is the WoL idle worker setup back, that is far from unreasonable. They didn't need to change it, all it has done is made playing the game more annoying than it has to be....for presumably no reason at all. I'm commenting because it's a ridiculous complaint in the first place. It boils down to people simply not liking change. Notice there aren't outcries to make it more noticeable in the current layout, but simply "change it back!" So why not just change it back??? There was no reason to change it in the first place. And I don't see how it's "ridiculous" at all, especially when you have notable progamers complaining about it. Because they've devoted resources into creating a more visually appealing UI, as well as moved those things around for new features (like the army button). The old way was obviously cluttered, but we all got "used" to it. Reverting back would mean they have to rethink the army button as well, which I'm sure would spawn another topic about the UI being cluttered and Blizzard being stupid or something. What was cluttered about the old Idle Worker button? It was a lot more noticeable than the new one so I don't see why we shouldn't lobby for getting back the old one. And again, if we're harking on visibility, why not put it right in the middle of the fucking screen, or in the upper right hand corner? Or upper left? Also, it's cluttered because it doesn't actually have a proper place in the old UI. If it were removed, I doubt many people could draw a box on the screen of where it should be and get it right within 10 pixels. Because the old place was fine? What is a proper place? I think the old one was very proper.
The old one can be considered something along the lines of "the best that could be done." In hindsight, it looks like it was tacked on and gussied up. We got used to it, and now people seem fine with an obvious abomination.
On February 21 2013 08:04 Thieving Magpie wrote:
he's saying its arbitrary. If the *need* is to be visible then a big red box with bells and whistles will be the most visible. If it needs to be present and in the corner then it doesn't really matter what it looks like.
he's saying the whiners are being dishonest.
Exactly. Thank you.
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On February 21 2013 08:04 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 07:59 Baum wrote:On February 21 2013 07:10 aksfjh wrote:On February 21 2013 05:56 Baum wrote:On February 21 2013 05:02 aksfjh wrote:On February 21 2013 03:50 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 21 2013 03:39 aksfjh wrote:On February 21 2013 02:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 20 2013 12:27 aksfjh wrote:On February 20 2013 11:34 ineversmile wrote:
[quote]
It means whole hell of a lot to a whole hell of a lot of pros who have played hundreds of games with it in HotS Beta, and now the shitty feature has been implemented in WoL.
You're the only one who thinks this way, it's not meaningless, and in all likelihood you will never be as good as some of the people "whining" in a million, billion fucking years. When Grubby, Zelniq, Pokebunny, the cast of State of the Game, and a shitload of other people are not happy with this UI change, you are blatantly wrong.
[quote]
People can see stalker shots because they are bright whitish-blue shots that have stark contrast to basically everything on the screen behind them. That's how the old Idle Worker button was, too--it was a techy-colored navy blue icon that was contrasted to the map in the background. And it went from being non-existent to being there, not from being gray to being blue. This change is ENORMOUS. If you don't think that's the case, you've probably never used the icon in the first place...in which case, what stake do you even have in this discussion? So, why not advocate for a giant icon and warning in the middle of your screen instead of a slightly different icon at the lower left that seems out of place? You're making a pretty big deal about the people making a big deal about it. All anyone is asking for is the WoL idle worker setup back, that is far from unreasonable. They didn't need to change it, all it has done is made playing the game more annoying than it has to be....for presumably no reason at all. I'm commenting because it's a ridiculous complaint in the first place. It boils down to people simply not liking change. Notice there aren't outcries to make it more noticeable in the current layout, but simply "change it back!" So why not just change it back??? There was no reason to change it in the first place. And I don't see how it's "ridiculous" at all, especially when you have notable progamers complaining about it. Because they've devoted resources into creating a more visually appealing UI, as well as moved those things around for new features (like the army button). The old way was obviously cluttered, but we all got "used" to it. Reverting back would mean they have to rethink the army button as well, which I'm sure would spawn another topic about the UI being cluttered and Blizzard being stupid or something. What was cluttered about the old Idle Worker button? It was a lot more noticeable than the new one so I don't see why we shouldn't lobby for getting back the old one. And again, if we're harking on visibility, why not put it right in the middle of the fucking screen, or in the upper right hand corner? Or upper left? Also, it's cluttered because it doesn't actually have a proper place in the old UI. If it were removed, I doubt many people could draw a box on the screen of where it should be and get it right within 10 pixels. Because the old place was fine? What is a proper place? I think the old one was very proper. he's saying its arbitrary. If the *need* is to be visible then a big red box with bells and whistles will be the most visible. If it needs to be present and in the corner then it doesn't really matter what it looks like. he's saying the whiners are being dishonest.
Exactly it's arbitrary but that also means there is no proper place. The UI is made not to just look good but to help the player play this game. The new place is less visible and it's harder to distinguish it from it's surroundings the old button only popped up when you had an idle worker and vanished when you didn't so it wasn't clunky and was far superior in giving you a visual signal.
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On February 21 2013 08:23 Baum wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 08:04 Thieving Magpie wrote:On February 21 2013 07:59 Baum wrote:On February 21 2013 07:10 aksfjh wrote:On February 21 2013 05:56 Baum wrote:On February 21 2013 05:02 aksfjh wrote:On February 21 2013 03:50 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 21 2013 03:39 aksfjh wrote:On February 21 2013 02:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 20 2013 12:27 aksfjh wrote:
[quote]
So, why not advocate for a giant icon and warning in the middle of your screen instead of a slightly different icon at the lower left that seems out of place? You're making a pretty big deal about the people making a big deal about it. All anyone is asking for is the WoL idle worker setup back, that is far from unreasonable. They didn't need to change it, all it has done is made playing the game more annoying than it has to be....for presumably no reason at all. I'm commenting because it's a ridiculous complaint in the first place. It boils down to people simply not liking change. Notice there aren't outcries to make it more noticeable in the current layout, but simply "change it back!" So why not just change it back??? There was no reason to change it in the first place. And I don't see how it's "ridiculous" at all, especially when you have notable progamers complaining about it. Because they've devoted resources into creating a more visually appealing UI, as well as moved those things around for new features (like the army button). The old way was obviously cluttered, but we all got "used" to it. Reverting back would mean they have to rethink the army button as well, which I'm sure would spawn another topic about the UI being cluttered and Blizzard being stupid or something. What was cluttered about the old Idle Worker button? It was a lot more noticeable than the new one so I don't see why we shouldn't lobby for getting back the old one. And again, if we're harking on visibility, why not put it right in the middle of the fucking screen, or in the upper right hand corner? Or upper left? Also, it's cluttered because it doesn't actually have a proper place in the old UI. If it were removed, I doubt many people could draw a box on the screen of where it should be and get it right within 10 pixels. Because the old place was fine? What is a proper place? I think the old one was very proper. he's saying its arbitrary. If the *need* is to be visible then a big red box with bells and whistles will be the most visible. If it needs to be present and in the corner then it doesn't really matter what it looks like. he's saying the whiners are being dishonest. Exactly it's arbitrary but that also means there is no proper place. The UI is made not to just look good but to help the player play this game. The new place is less visible and it's harder to distinguish it from it's surroundings the old button only popped up when you had an idle worker and vanished when you didn't so it wasn't clunky and was far superior in giving you a visual signal.
If its arbitrary then it doesn't matter.
Blizzard put it there. It doesn't affect balance, it doesn't affect unit dynamics, it doesn't affect timings. It simply makes bad players play worse--which is a user error problem not a design problem.
If Blizz thinks it looks pretty then by all means its up to Blizz.
I think we shouldn't have it at all--but you don't see me starting a thread on it.
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Isn't this what the people want? A harder UI to separate the skill gap?
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Meh don't really know why it's their in the first place.. people(Especially pro's) should be able to keep track of their workers without a highlighted button....
Out of all the things to cry about this one seems kind of lame. Kinda makes me sad seeing Pro players whining about this, I can see lower league players wanting it, but as a pro you should have 0 need for this icon.
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Who can notice with all the fukin lag....
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On February 21 2013 08:39 Harbinger631 wrote:
Isn't this what the people want? A harder UI to separate the skill gap?
I don't know why the "arbitrary high skill cap" people don't put Starcraft 64 on the pedestal of ultimate competitive gaming when it has the worst interface out of all the Blizzard RTS games. The jump from Warcraft 2 to Starcraft 1 & BW was a huge sign that Blizzard wanted to cater to casuals with improved UI and "reduced skill cap" :/
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That button should blink - not just be.
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United States7166 Posts
*EDIT*: I edited in some new thoughts to the OP
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the problem with the new UI simply comes down to the fact that it's not a button that appears when you've an idle worker, it's a button that's always there and looks almost exactly the same as when you do have idle workers as when you don't, it just changes hues to blend in seamlessly with the race-specific UI around it as well as the Select Army button next to it. So everything looks normal and fine when you've idle workers, it doesn't stand out in any way, shape, or form.
On February 21 2013 08:39 Harbinger631 wrote:
Isn't this what the people want? A harder UI to separate the skill gap?
making important things harder to see in some sort of attempt to raise the difficulty and raise the skill cap is the most ridiculous thing I've read in this thread.
It's like suggesting to make enemy units on the minimap nearly invisible, except for a faint shimmer like cloaked units make. Then only players who are looking very carefully will notice it!
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On February 21 2013 09:36 Zelniq wrote:*EDIT*: I edited in some new thoughts to the OP ___ the problem with the new UI simply comes down to the fact that it's not a button that appears when you've an idle worker, it's a button that's always there and looks almost exactly the same as when you do have idle workers as when you don't, it just changes hues to blend in seamlessly with the race-specific UI around it as well as the Select Army button next to it. So everything looks normal and fine when you've idle workers, it doesn't stand out in any way, shape, or form. Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 08:39 Harbinger631 wrote:
Isn't this what the people want? A harder UI to separate the skill gap? making important things harder to see in some sort of attempt to raise the difficulty and raise the skill cap is the most ridiculous thing I've read in this thread. It's like suggesting to make enemy units on the minimap nearly invisible, except for a faint shimmer like cloaked units make. Then only players who are looking very carefully will notice it!
Then the primary petition should be to make the current button more visible, not to object to a UI change. I would think our "job" as a community would be to petition for Blizzard to improve their work, not revert every change some of us don't like (even as an option).
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United States7166 Posts
i don't understand how you think that people are up in arms because something changed. This whole thread has been about how it's too hard to notice the idle worker button, and the reason why they want the old one back is because it was easy to notice and there's nothing wrong with it. there was a lot of UI changes with this update and I don't see people complaining about that, or did I miss something? Unless it's about the idle warpgates button which is a similar issue to the one this thread is about afaik.
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I don't understand how you think this such a issue, Blizzard has better things to do, Honestly if you can't pay attention and press F1 or w/e hot key you set for Idle workers, then sc2 is not a game for you. Its a inch lower on screen, it's always there for people to look @. I sware the smallest crap makes randoms rage so much, I rather see threads on team liquid about the real issues not this crap, Sad this site has lowered it's standards over the years on what deserves a thread. Tl mods start of sc2 and back in brood war days would delete thread's like this.
This is one of the most stupid threads I have read on this website in a while.
User was temp banned after a repeated history of insulting/poor posts, in a 2 month old account. Already had been warned several times for this behavior.
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On February 21 2013 12:22 LingBlingBling wrote:
I don't understand how you think this such a issue, Blizzard has better things to do, Honestly if you can't pay attention and press F1 or w/e hot key you set for Idle workers, then sc2 is not a game for you. Its a inch lower on screen, it's always there for people to look @. I sware the smallest crap makes randoms rage so much, I rather see threads on team liquid about the real issues not this crap, Sad this site has lowered it's standards over the years on what deserves a thread. Tl mods start of sc2 and back in brood war days would delete thread's like this.
This is one of the most stupid threads I have read on this website in a while.
User was temp banned after a repeated history of insulting/poor posts, in a 2 month old account. Already had been warned several times for this behavior.
Never seen a mod so mad that they write a side note after a person is warned or temp banned, I went through lingblingbling's post history, he never directly insulted people, he made very valid points about the game in his posts, Just seems like a mod dis agreed with him and has something personal vs him, there are far worse people that say far worse things here on TL with out any sort of warn or ban but w/e Just seems odd a mod would go out of their way to do that.
Never seen a mod do that to anyone else on TL. )= Unless Staff got new mods this month.
User was banned for this post (alternate account to poster that got temp banned in quote above)
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I started a thread on the America BNet forums to draw more attention to this problem. If anyone would like to help with another chance for the game developers to notice the problem, bump this thread with your thoughts:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7924373673
And if there are any suggestions of things to put into that OP, feel free to PM me, or something.
On February 21 2013 15:00 Melaine wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 12:22 LingBlingBling wrote:
I don't understand how you think this such a issue, Blizzard has better things to do, Honestly if you can't pay attention and press F1 or w/e hot key you set for Idle workers, then sc2 is not a game for you. Its a inch lower on screen, it's always there for people to look @. I sware the smallest crap makes randoms rage so much, I rather see threads on team liquid about the real issues not this crap, Sad this site has lowered it's standards over the years on what deserves a thread. Tl mods start of sc2 and back in brood war days would delete thread's like this.
This is one of the most stupid threads I have read on this website in a while.
User was temp banned after a repeated history of insulting/poor posts, in a 2 month old account. Already had been warned several times for this behavior. Never seen a mod so mad that they write a side note after a person is warned or temp banned, I went through lingblingbling's post history, he never directly insulted people, he made very valid points about the game in his posts, Just seems like a mod dis agreed with him and has something personal vs him, there are far worse people that say far worse things here on TL with out any sort of warn or ban but w/e Just seems odd a mod would go out of their way to do that. Never seen a mod do that to anyone else on TL. )= Unless Staff got new mods this month.
I read the most recent dozen of his posts, and at least 8 of them were clearly either just a personal attack, misinformation, or outright balance whine. Of the other 4 I read, 2 of them seemed very sketchy. I'm no mod, but it was pretty obvious to me.
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Hellow everyone. This is my first post, as this concern to low league players as well as top league players.
As a recently promoted to silver player, i miss some kind of customization in this & other stuff. Im just agree with the "let the player do it as he likes".
I can understand that pro-players are pros (redundant) & can pass throw the game with less notifications than the rest of uss. I can understand too the "lack of skill" argument. They both are ok if you consider that the community is allready established, or it wont grow anymore.
But i think blizzard wants his community to grow up. Indeed, the new possibilites in match up (non-leadder match up, and VS increassing IA Match Up as well) indicates that blizzard wants a growing AND learning comunitty aswell. If you want to teach someone, you must give him the best tools you can.
I guess one of those tools is the UI costumization. I barelly can't understand why i can change all my hotkeys, but i cant put my clock near the suply info. Is this "semmi-customizattion" what annoys me. the issue with the "f1" button is similar.
In my case, i want all relevant info to be all together (what includes minimap-clock-resources & what's not) so i don't have to look for it all allong the screen. But i can understand those who are ok with the UI as it is.
I remember my days as a WoW player: i started with the bassic UI, but with time, i customize all of it untill the day y remove all the UI but the raid info. That was because i knew my CDs, so i dont need to look at them anymore, & i can focus in bosses mechanics &so on.. Blizzard just gave me the OPTION of ussing that info or not. Its my decission to do it or not.
Obviusly, blizzard thinks the “f1” botton gives important info to the player. If some of those players are so good that they don’t need it, its ok. Let them play tournaments where that info is capped or so. But now I need that info not only to be present, but to be a priority. With time, it will come the day that “that dammned light in middle of my screen” won’t let me micro as well as i might to, so I my-self will change it or remove it at all. but nowadays I need it to be as Highlighted as it can be.
TL.DR:let the player choose, so they can remove it (or add it) as they need. Different players may have different issues.
P.D: sorry, english is not my native
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agree.
i had 6 idle workers at my 4th cus i forgot to rally that hatch (as i usually do when at that stage in the game, fighting a lot of army engagements). didn't notice them for 40 seconds...
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i welcome anything that makes the game harder.
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On February 21 2013 23:10 Rokit5 wrote:
i welcome anything that makes the game harder.
I've found a good pretext to start a BW vs HotS vs WoL debate !
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I'm still a bit divided on this. Yes, it's harder to see I think we are all aware of this. However, this is not a bad thing necessarily. It's not like it's invisible, so if you have the intention of checking your idle workers, you will instantly notice them and fix the situation. Thus, I agree that in some ways this increases 'skill'; the player who just carefully peeks at the button every now and then will have an advantage over someone who just stares at the center of the screen. This is basically the same as someone who pays close attention to the minimap, though I have to admit it's probably slightly easier to see red dots popping up on it, but that's fine.
Let's look at it this way; you can also not see your minerals / gas / supply without actually looking, now is that so bad? Again, as a player obviously it was easier when it was immediately noticed, but this way just requires the player to more explicitly take care of his idle workers, which I don't think is the end of the world.
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On February 21 2013 23:46 dani` wrote:
I'm still a bit divided on this. Yes, it's harder to see I think we are all aware of this. However, this is not a bad thing necessarily. It's not like it's invisible, so if you have the intention of checking your idle workers, you will instantly notice them and fix the situation. Thus, I agree that in some ways this increases 'skill'; the player who just carefully peeks at the button every now and then will have an advantage over someone who just stares at the center of the screen. This is basically the same as someone who pays close attention to the minimap, though I have to admit it's probably slightly easier to see red dots popping up on it, but that's fine.
Let's look at it this way; you can also not see your minerals / gas / supply without actually looking, now is that so bad? Again, as a player obviously it was easier when it was immediately noticed, but this way just requires the player to more explicitly take care of his idle workers, which I don't think is the end of the world.
So you could add a rule for Soccer. Before shooting a player has to tur his head left and right 3 time. This way it would creat a skill gap between players able to turn their head fast enough and players not able to do it ! I think this rule would also make soccer funnier !
TL;DR : making the game harder like that is retarded.
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On February 21 2013 23:46 dani` wrote:
I'm still a bit divided on this. Yes, it's harder to see I think we are all aware of this. However, this is not a bad thing necessarily. It's not like it's invisible, so if you have the intention of checking your idle workers, you will instantly notice them and fix the situation. Thus, I agree that in some ways this increases 'skill'; the player who just carefully peeks at the button every now and then will have an advantage over someone who just stares at the center of the screen. This is basically the same as someone who pays close attention to the minimap, though I have to admit it's probably slightly easier to see red dots popping up on it, but that's fine.
Let's look at it this way; you can also not see your minerals / gas / supply without actually looking, now is that so bad? Again, as a player obviously it was easier when it was immediately noticed, but this way just requires the player to more explicitly take care of his idle workers, which I don't think is the end of the world.
But your minerals and gas are isolated text/images over the background of the battlefield. This means they have contrast with the screen behind them. If you glance to the top right, you can easily read the numbers. There is no contrast to the new idle worker icon, so it takes more than a quick glance to read that number--everything looks basically the same because there is no visual contrast. It all just blends together, to the human eye.
The changes they made to the game with this patch (worker split at start, numerical indicator of optimal mining at each base, etc.) completely support the idea that players should be able to see how many idle workers they have, at a glance. It would be ridiculous to make those changes without also maintaining or even increasing the ability for players to notice the idle worker icon with their peripheral vision, alone.
The problem is that some jackass at Blizzard worked on the UI and glossed some buttons over, without understanding that function>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>fashion, and somehow NOBODY in the company noticed that it's fucking impossible to see the new idle worker icon. Regardless of what anybody thinks about whether or not an idle worker icon is valid, we can all agree that it's fucking impossible to see the icon.
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On February 22 2013 00:26 ineversmile wrote:
The problem is that some jackass at Blizzard worked on the UI and glossed some buttons over, without understanding that function>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>fashion, and somehow NOBODY in the company noticed that it's fucking impossible to see the new idle worker icon. Regardless of what anybody thinks about whether or not an idle worker icon is valid, we can all agree that it's fucking impossible to see the icon.
I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying you can't read the number of idle workers in HotS even when you look at it? Because that just seems absurd to me. I'd say it's much harder to tell if you have idle workers using your peripheral vision, but I'm not sure how you can say that it is "fucking impossible to see the icon".
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United States7166 Posts
He's trying to say that the button doesn't contrast with anything around it, blending in making it somewhat awkwardly unintuitive to notice idle workers at a glance.
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On February 22 2013 01:09 JDub wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2013 00:26 ineversmile wrote:
The problem is that some jackass at Blizzard worked on the UI and glossed some buttons over, without understanding that function>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>fashion, and somehow NOBODY in the company noticed that it's fucking impossible to see the new idle worker icon. Regardless of what anybody thinks about whether or not an idle worker icon is valid, we can all agree that it's fucking impossible to see the icon. I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying you can't read the number of idle workers in HotS even when you look at it? Because that just seems absurd to me. I'd say it's much harder to tell if you have idle workers using your peripheral vision, but I'm not sure how you can say that it is "fucking impossible to see the icon".
It does seem like a bit of an exaggeration, doesn't it?
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On February 22 2013 00:26 ineversmile wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 23:46 dani` wrote:
I'm still a bit divided on this. Yes, it's harder to see I think we are all aware of this. However, this is not a bad thing necessarily. It's not like it's invisible, so if you have the intention of checking your idle workers, you will instantly notice them and fix the situation. Thus, I agree that in some ways this increases 'skill'; the player who just carefully peeks at the button every now and then will have an advantage over someone who just stares at the center of the screen. This is basically the same as someone who pays close attention to the minimap, though I have to admit it's probably slightly easier to see red dots popping up on it, but that's fine.
Let's look at it this way; you can also not see your minerals / gas / supply without actually looking, now is that so bad? Again, as a player obviously it was easier when it was immediately noticed, but this way just requires the player to more explicitly take care of his idle workers, which I don't think is the end of the world. But your minerals and gas are isolated text/images over the background of the battlefield. This means they have contrast with the screen behind them. If you glance to the top right, you can easily read the numbers. There is no contrast to the new idle worker icon, so it takes more than a quick glance to read that number--everything looks basically the same because there is no visual contrast. It all just blends together, to the human eye.
I don't agree with this. If you look at the button it's not difficult at all to read the number. The number text = white, it does contrast with its surroundings. Also, if you glance at the button you can tell if it's active (i.e., you have idle workers) or not which is most important. I don't really care how many idle workers I have, I care if I have idle workers at all.
So if your argument here is that the readability is bad, I disagree. The button definitely is less noticeable now because it's integrated into the UI, but I argued this is not necessarily a problem as it simply requires the player to explicitly look at the button, just like with minerals / gas / supply. As I said earlier; if Blizzard wanted to new button to attract the player's attention; they have failed. Otherwise I think it's fine. Though of course the old situation was easier for the players.
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Holy CRAP there was actually a thread on this!! I thought I was the only one with this problem.. so glad I'm not. I've played a good amount of games since the patch dropped and I've yet to get used to noticing the button "activating." Please change it back or make it a bit more noticeable =.=
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I apologize for exaggerating it a bit--I was posting under the influence.
If you look directly at the icon, the number is legible, but I stand by my point that the lack of contrast makes the icon itself difficult to notice in the peripheral vision.
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On February 23 2013 02:08 ineversmile wrote:
I apologize for exaggerating it a bit--I was posting under the influence.
If you look directly at the icon, the number is legible, but I stand by my point that the lack of contrast makes the icon itself difficult to notice in the peripheral vision.
Isn't this a user error problem then?
Macro better, play faster, stay calmer, look harder kind of thing?
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On February 21 2013 09:36 Zelniq wrote:*EDIT*: I edited in some new thoughts to the OP ___ the problem with the new UI simply comes down to the fact that it's not a button that appears when you've an idle worker, it's a button that's always there and looks almost exactly the same as when you do have idle workers as when you don't, it just changes hues to blend in seamlessly with the race-specific UI around it as well as the Select Army button next to it. So everything looks normal and fine when you've idle workers, it doesn't stand out in any way, shape, or form. Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 08:39 Harbinger631 wrote:
Isn't this what the people want? A harder UI to separate the skill gap? making important things harder to see in some sort of attempt to raise the difficulty and raise the skill cap is the most ridiculous thing I've read in this thread. It's like suggesting to make enemy units on the minimap nearly invisible, except for a faint shimmer like cloaked units make. Then only players who are looking very carefully will notice it!
Totally agree... things should be plain and not hard to notice. This is the reason many pros play on low graphics... we want higher skilled games, not games that hide important info from you.
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New Idle worker button favors zerg/protoss, since terran has way more idle workers and use them more than other races.
I.E.: you make supply depots with same 2 workers... when you see idle worker icon, its time to make new supply.
Now with this new button, it get's way harder to do so... Blizzard FIX IT PLEASE.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina72 Posts
I never notice the new button, serves no purpose. Remove or relocate imo.
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On February 21 2013 09:36 Zelniq wrote:*EDIT*: I edited in some new thoughts to the OP ___ the problem with the new UI simply comes down to the fact that it's not a button that appears when you've an idle worker, it's a button that's always there and looks almost exactly the same as when you do have idle workers as when you don't, it just changes hues to blend in seamlessly with the race-specific UI around it as well as the Select Army button next to it. So everything looks normal and fine when you've idle workers, it doesn't stand out in any way, shape, or form. Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 08:39 Harbinger631 wrote:
Isn't this what the people want? A harder UI to separate the skill gap? making important things harder to see in some sort of attempt to raise the difficulty and raise the skill cap is the most ridiculous thing I've read in this thread. It's like suggesting to make enemy units on the minimap nearly invisible, except for a faint shimmer like cloaked units make. Then only players who are looking very carefully will notice it!
This post has turned my opinion. It's placement is fine, but the whole button should be invisible until their are inactive workers. This increases its visibility but helps to maintain a fluid HUD.
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Definitely not as useful as in WoL!
A remake of the WoL button or a sound alert would be nice.
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Blizzard just have to change it back to the way it was. Its not even about not being used to it, even if you are used to it it requires you to actually take a moment and look at the idle worker icon (its an orange light right next to another orange light that always glows orange, the army units button), with the previous idle worker alert you could keep your vision centered on the screen while noticing the alert with your peripheral vision, you would instantly notice it.
Now not only do i never instantly notice it, i find myself checking my idle worker status from time to time just to make sure no workers are idle, because i know i would have missed it the moment they went idle, thats waste of (as someone else put it) my brain APM. This is such a step in the wrong direction, blizzard must change it back or redo it so that you will notice the alert instantly with your peripheral vision.
Have Blizzard even acknowledged our concerns on this matter yet?
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On February 21 2013 23:10 Rokit5 wrote:
i welcome anything that makes the game harder.
This is making the game harder in the wrong way though. Just as lack of worker automining (when you build a worker and rallypoint to the minerals it will start mining right away) would be making the game harder in the wrong way.
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I actually don't mind the new worker button but I can see why it would be less easy to notice. Whenever I see it light up now I hit shift+F1 to see how many idle workers there are then send them to mine unless it is the probe I build stuff with.
Edit: But yeah when they game first came out the new buttons really threw me for a loop. That and the clock being in a new location.
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I find it strange that any pro player would have to rely on the idle worker button at all :/ Shouldn't you be looking down there instead of just using your peripheral anyways to check up on the minimap?
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On February 28 2013 00:53 Babru wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 23:10 Rokit5 wrote:
i welcome anything that makes the game harder. This is making the game harder in the wrong way though. Just as lack of worker automining (when you build a worker and rallypoint to the minerals it will start mining right away) would be making the game harder in the wrong way.
No it wouldn't be... That's the perfect way to increase the skill cap and just added to the amount of multitasking Brood War required.
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i agree with this wholeheartedly. i'd rather they revert the entire left side to the wol UI and remove the select army button too
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United States7166 Posts
On March 01 2013 08:27 IcedBacon wrote:
I find it strange that any pro player would have to rely on the idle worker button at all :/ Shouldn't you be looking down there instead of just using your peripheral anyways to check up on the minimap?
even glancing at the minimap, it's really hard to notice
as I said earlier...
the problem with the new UI simply comes down to the fact that it's not a button that appears when you've an idle worker, it's a button that's always there and looks almost exactly the same as when you do have idle workers as when you don't, it just changes hues to blend in seamlessly with the race-specific UI around it as well as the Select Army button next to it. So everything looks normal and fine when you've idle workers, it doesn't stand out in any way, shape, or form.
this is apparent as several pros have openly complained/not noticed idle workers. Pros who you can obviously assume check the minimap regularly. ie: see post above me about Losira
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Absolutely hate the new one. Been picking up WoL the past few days after months of inactiveness in prep for the expansion, and can NEVER tell when my workers are inactive, whereas before I could tell just in my periphery.
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I think it should be more on the player to keep track of their idle workers. I'm not saying i'm always on top of it, in fact i'm often terrible, but making a point of catching it yourself will only increase your awareness  In all honesty i'd be happy without an idle worker button, but of course, this is only my opinion
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On March 01 2013 11:52 Seanly wrote:I think it should be more on the player to keep track of their idle workers. I'm not saying i'm always on top of it, in fact i'm often terrible, but making a point of catching it yourself will only increase your awareness In all honesty i'd be happy without an idle worker button, but of course, this is only my opinion
The same idle worker button was used for what, 3 years now? No major complaints about the button afaik during these 3 years. And then they suddenly decided to change it to something significantly less noticeable for whatever reason.
I'm all for being a more aware gamer, but this certainly seems like an unintended result of the UI change imo.
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I keep accidentally selecting all my army to run into my mineral lines when trying to select workers. is there a way to turn that option off? Or some commands to make it so that my banshees or medivac drop isn't included in that group? I must have lost a couple of games because medivacs and banshee runs back home when trying to select all army
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On March 01 2013 12:10 Proof. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 11:52 Seanly wrote:I think it should be more on the player to keep track of their idle workers. I'm not saying i'm always on top of it, in fact i'm often terrible, but making a point of catching it yourself will only increase your awareness In all honesty i'd be happy without an idle worker button, but of course, this is only my opinion The same idle worker button was used for what, 3 years now? No major complaints about the button afaik during these 3 years. And then they suddenly decided to change it to something significantly less noticeable for whatever reason. I'm all for being a more aware gamer, but this certainly seems like an unintended result of the UI change imo.
Try 10 years. Actually, more than 10 years. The Idle Worker Icon has been around since Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MgBf8gN.jpg)
Reign of Chaos was released July 3, 2002. The idle worker icon has been around that long, in Blizzard RTS games, and it was always noticeable, in exactly the same spot. The only time it ever became a problem was when they recently forced us to have this stupid UI change.
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United States97276 Posts
I dislike the same change to available warp gates. Maybe it's because I'm just not used to it yet, but I like the old way better.
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On March 01 2013 15:06 iky43210 wrote:
I keep accidentally selecting all my army to run into my mineral lines when trying to select workers. is there a way to turn that option off? Or some commands to make it so that my banshees or medivac drop isn't included in that group? I must have lost a couple of games because medivacs and banshee runs back home when trying to select all army
You can remove the hotkey for selecting all your army. Another approach is to not push the wrong button Also about your second question I don't think you want to really use the 'select all army' button it always has unwanted side effects like the ones you describe.
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United States7166 Posts
YES!!
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/8156095691#1
among other cool tidbits, this was said
That Idle Worker Indicator
It's not as easy to notice as we originally thought it would be. We've seen a number of players ask us to address that, and we're on it. Our hope is that with a patch after the launch of Heart of the Swarm, we'll be able to make it stand out a lot more.
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On March 07 2013 06:11 Zelniq wrote:YES!! http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/8156095691#1among other cool tidbits, this was said Show nested quote +That Idle Worker Indicator
It's not as easy to notice as we originally thought it would be. We've seen a number of players ask us to address that, and we're on it. Our hope is that with a patch after the launch of Heart of the Swarm, we'll be able to make it stand out a lot more.
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet! Nice to know they'll semi-fix apm as well :D
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Wonderful news!
But again one shouldnt be "happy" with blizzard though, I mean they screwed it up after all and is simply correcting a mistake :/
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while we're at it who decided to change the mouse sensitivity jesus christ
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I really like it. It brings more tenacity into the game even if it won't make a big difference. It was way to obvious in WoL.
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Sweet! Now I can really look forward to the expansion...at least, a week or so after it comes out. Maybe I'll actually play the campaign while I wait for this upcoming patch.
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United States7166 Posts
On March 07 2013 07:47 KawaiiRice wrote:
while we're at it who decided to change the mouse sensitivity jesus christ
what happened with the mouse sens?
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On March 07 2013 07:47 KawaiiRice wrote:
while we're at it who decided to change the mouse sensitivity jesus christ
I agree that sensitivity in HOTS is vastly different from WOL.
Even with exact same settings, you can feel a difference.
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aww thats sad to hear, really liked it there. Wonder what they will do with it though, saying they are on it. The phrasing makes it sound like I will have fun when they patch it in.
Just please don't make it blink !
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I don't think it was that hard to notice.
My sister, who hasn't played since the launch, played yesterday and noticed it right away.
Maybe it's harder to notice since you're used to the old position
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The whole "You're looking in that area anyway if you watch your minimap" argument is silly. The reason the old button was so useful is BECAUSE it was so out of the way. And with the "Select all army" button almost always lit up, right next to it, it's very...awkward.
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On March 07 2013 09:12 Zelniq wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 07:47 KawaiiRice wrote:
while we're at it who decided to change the mouse sensitivity jesus christ what happened with the mouse sens?
I used to use 55% sens in wol
used 51% in hots beta
now I had to disable mouse sens option in wol 2.0, and it still feels weird
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Harder to see. No problem. Will mean that you have to pay more attention to the game and the button placement makes more sense there. I approve!
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Bisutopia19239 Posts
Why wait till after release to patch it? Isn't it best to release the product best as possible. Or maybe its cause many games are already packaged/distributed.
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On March 08 2013 00:01 BisuDagger wrote:
Why wait till after release to patch it? Isn't it best to release the product best as possible. Or maybe its cause many games are already packaged/distributed.
The release is the best product as possible - at this time. Give them a year or 2 with beta and probably another 10 builds/units/buttons and UI functions would be more polished/nerfed/buffed.. I think the blowback from delaying the release for a button would be most unwelcome. Its good they are patching it in the near future, better than 'works as intended'
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On March 08 2013 00:01 BisuDagger wrote:
Why wait till after release to patch it? Isn't it best to release the product best as possible. Or maybe its cause many games are already packaged/distributed. You guessed right, it is that by now many many copies of the game have been printed and packaged. For a mainstream widespread software like this, they need to "RTM" (release to manufacturing) weeks before the product release date, for there to be time to print enough copies to put on store shelves to meet demand. At that point they shift gears to working on their first patch as the RTM'd version is already being physically printed/packaged.
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Eh we'll all get use to it soon enough. Its just a matter of reading a number.. I dont even bother looking to see if its greyd out or not. But I can see why people would want it back....
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EPT
