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David Kim on potential beta changes (Feb 4th,2013) - Page 33

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
February 07 2013 18:57 GMT
#641
Perhaps the most inane thing about all this is that blizzard is willing to acknowledge mech tvp is still utter bullcrap, but instead of buffing the tank, they talk about the widow mine lol. Tanks are really what needs a buff, the core mech tvp unit. Not a mine that takes supply out of your army the longer the game goes on.

In longer games, you will not have many widow mines in your army because they are simply terrible supply-wise. So basically, they need to look at tanks. You should be able to hold a position against Protoss with siege tanks, not just lose to 1A when Protoss moves up a ramp, through siege tank fire, etc.
Sup
myRZeth
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany1047 Posts
February 07 2013 19:06 GMT
#642
On February 08 2013 03:57 avilo wrote:
Perhaps the most inane thing about all this is that blizzard is willing to acknowledge mech tvp is still utter bullcrap, but instead of buffing the tank, they talk about the widow mine lol. Tanks are really what needs a buff, the core mech tvp unit. Not a mine that takes supply out of your army the longer the game goes on.

In longer games, you will not have many widow mines in your army because they are simply terrible supply-wise. So basically, they need to look at tanks. You should be able to hold a position against Protoss with siege tanks, not just lose to 1A when Protoss moves up a ramp, through siege tank fire, etc.



there s a reason why progamers want u banned on the secret forum
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 07 2013 19:06 GMT
#643
On February 08 2013 03:57 avilo wrote:
Perhaps the most inane thing about all this is that blizzard is willing to acknowledge mech tvp is still utter bullcrap, but instead of buffing the tank, they talk about the widow mine lol. Tanks are really what needs a buff, the core mech tvp unit. Not a mine that takes supply out of your army the longer the game goes on.

In longer games, you will not have many widow mines in your army because they are simply terrible supply-wise. So basically, they need to look at tanks. You should be able to hold a position against Protoss with siege tanks, not just lose to 1A when Protoss moves up a ramp, through siege tank fire, etc.


I should be able to hold any position with zealots alone. Why? Because they are my favorite unit and I should be able to build only them. They should also be able to attack air units, because its dumb that I have to build other units that are not zealots to attack air. They should do bonus damage air units too, so people don't build air unit and fight my zealots on the ground.

This is what I hear every time people ask for the siege tanks to be buffed. I wasn't there when mech was first created in BW, but I am sure the person who did it did not just say "The core unit will be tanks". Just because you can't build unlimited numbers of the specific unit you care for does not mean that Blizzard should buff that unit. After all, I really like immortals, but they still can't beat mass zerglings.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
FreeTossCZComentary
Profile Joined September 2011
Czech Republic143 Posts
February 07 2013 19:07 GMT
#644
On February 08 2013 03:57 avilo wrote:
Perhaps the most inane thing about all this is that blizzard is willing to acknowledge mech tvp is still utter bullcrap, but instead of buffing the tank, they talk about the widow mine lol. Tanks are really what needs a buff, the core mech tvp unit. Not a mine that takes supply out of your army the longer the game goes on.

In longer games, you will not have many widow mines in your army because they are simply terrible supply-wise. So basically, they need to look at tanks. You should be able to hold a position against Protoss with siege tanks, not just lose to 1A when Protoss moves up a ramp, through siege tank fire, etc.


Mech dont need buffs. Remove bio tag from Hellbat so that people will not use it when Bioing, but when meching - problem solved. When you are trying to make mech playable, blizzard, creating new biological unit, that is ideal to join bioball... coming out of factory... well... is step in oposite direction...
www.youtube.com/OnlyFreeToss, FreeCraft ForFun SC2 MOD Rulez: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=292319 Dont even dare waiting, join FreeCraft now!
Asha
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom38205 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-07 19:17:28
February 07 2013 19:08 GMT
#645
On February 08 2013 03:57 avilo wrote:
Perhaps the most inane thing about all this is that blizzard is willing to acknowledge mech tvp is still utter bullcrap, but instead of buffing the tank, they talk about the widow mine lol. Tanks are really what needs a buff, the core mech tvp unit. Not a mine that takes supply out of your army the longer the game goes on.

In longer games, you will not have many widow mines in your army because they are simply terrible supply-wise. So basically, they need to look at tanks. You should be able to hold a position against Protoss with siege tanks, not just lose to 1A when Protoss moves up a ramp, through siege tank fire, etc.


The silly thing about not even trying tank buffs is that the only match up it could possibly hurt balance-wise is TvZ, and not only are they not really a problem there now. but there's even more counters to them in hots than there are in WoL anyway.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
February 07 2013 19:10 GMT
#646
On February 08 2013 04:07 FreeTossCZComentary wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2013 03:57 avilo wrote:
Perhaps the most inane thing about all this is that blizzard is willing to acknowledge mech tvp is still utter bullcrap, but instead of buffing the tank, they talk about the widow mine lol. Tanks are really what needs a buff, the core mech tvp unit. Not a mine that takes supply out of your army the longer the game goes on.

In longer games, you will not have many widow mines in your army because they are simply terrible supply-wise. So basically, they need to look at tanks. You should be able to hold a position against Protoss with siege tanks, not just lose to 1A when Protoss moves up a ramp, through siege tank fire, etc.


Mech dont need buffs. Remove bio tag from Hellbat so that people will not use it when Bioing, but when meching - problem solved. When you are trying to make mech playable, blizzard, creating new biological unit, that is ideal to join bioball... coming out of factory... well... is step in oposite direction...


I'm imagining 3Hellbats 2SCV drops where Hellbats go in and out of the medivac two at a time with the third one being repaired by SCVs inside the medivac
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
nomyx
Profile Joined June 2012
United States2205 Posts
February 07 2013 19:11 GMT
#647
On February 08 2013 03:51 Mehukannu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2013 03:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On February 08 2013 03:37 MstrJinbo wrote:
On February 08 2013 03:32 Jarree wrote:
On February 08 2013 03:25 Big J wrote:
On February 08 2013 02:44 Plansix wrote:
On February 08 2013 02:33 Big J wrote:
On February 08 2013 02:19 JustTray wrote:
On February 08 2013 02:02 Big J wrote:
On February 08 2013 00:58 Spyridon wrote:
[quote]

Vipers work great as long as you micro them properly, I've seen Idra typically grab them before Infestors.

As for your comparisons of which units beat them, are we talking 1 vs 1? Or are we talking based on how many resources spent? 1 vs 1 you are correct, but with equal resource amounts of Hydras vs those units Hydras dont lose.

This is because, as been stated by the pros many times, Roach and Hydra are resource efficient, but not supply efficient.

This means they are best put to use with mid-game armies as the "first encounter" with some resources banked. At Hive tech just make a couple Vipers while you are teching to T3. You can have an initial encounter with Roach/Hydra/Viper and do the most damage you can, and once Vipers are out of energy bring them back to base. As they Roach/Hydra die you can use the banked resources to create your supply efficient T3 units and w/e else u need to counter the enemy composition.



1Thor 300/200/6 beats 4hydralisks 400/200/8
1Immortal 250/100/4 beats 2hydralisks 200/100/4; but if you actually try to even out those 50minerals with 21hydras vs 9immortals hydras win. (3 : 7 ratio)

Range/speed Hydralisk vs stim/concussive marauder is a very close battle that the hydralisks win slightly more often in my testings, but it can vary. All of that with marauders that cost 25gas less per unit.
Chargelot vs Hydras is just so extremly onesided, that I don't really tried to hit some sweetspot. Chargelots win. (24 vs 24 with chargelots approaching in a ball instead of spread, hydras being in a tight ball)

All of those tests are true for 0-0 upgrades. The Immortal and the Thor get advantages from better upgrades (3/3/0 Immortals do win vs 3/3 Hydras in the 3 : 7 ratio).
Marauder vs Hydra stays the same. 3/3/0 Chargelots get insignificantly worse vs 3/3 hydras.
(didn't test stalkers, because it depends on blinking a lot and therefore it varies strongly on skill and amount level - and I'm right now on my laggy laptop). But I believe I have done medium amounts like 20vs20 before and I think stalkers in those amounts win.

So in conclusion, the discussable units are marauders and immortals which basically break even with hydras (win/lose situation dependend). Zealots and Thors could be considered softcounters to hydralisks (that always beat hydras cost- and supplyefficiently)


At best this post is a gross mischaracterization. At worst, a full lie.

It completely ignores all micro, and therefore is invalid for this argument. As usual, starcraft is more nuanced than a-move then watch the pretty colors.


Go ahead. Make a better characterization about how the hydralisk is a counter to the Thor. And don't back out now. If you can call me a liar, you are hopefully capable of telling me how I can win with 4 hydras vs 1 Thor.


Big J, that is not how you argue on TL. One does not back up his claims. You make a bold statement and call someone uninformed or a liar. Then you cite some part of gameplay that could be applicable to the situation. The most important part is that you don’t provide facts, proof or examples for your opponent to pick apart. Just leave it all hanging, like you are some authority on the game and its your opponents burden to prove you wrong.

That is how you argue on TL, by always placing the burden of proof on your opponent. Facts are not welcome.


Damn it, I knew I was doing something wrong when I was testing those units against each others. Finally I know what it was. It was actually testing the costefficiency to argue it...

Maybe you should play the game instead of testing. Vipers pull thors and hydras oneshot them. End of story.


Or you can have an infestor neural parasite it. Hydra Thor is pretty strong I hear.


Neural an SCV and pump medivacs

No no, You should use the SCV to make mass orbitals and replace your drones with MULEs.


What if you neuraled a probe and built a lot of nexus for the chrono then chrono the hacteries so they make larvae faster?

you wouldn't even need to use inject anymore
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
February 07 2013 19:14 GMT
#648
On February 08 2013 04:11 nomyx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2013 03:51 Mehukannu wrote:
On February 08 2013 03:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On February 08 2013 03:37 MstrJinbo wrote:
On February 08 2013 03:32 Jarree wrote:
On February 08 2013 03:25 Big J wrote:
On February 08 2013 02:44 Plansix wrote:
On February 08 2013 02:33 Big J wrote:
On February 08 2013 02:19 JustTray wrote:
On February 08 2013 02:02 Big J wrote:
[quote]


1Thor 300/200/6 beats 4hydralisks 400/200/8
1Immortal 250/100/4 beats 2hydralisks 200/100/4; but if you actually try to even out those 50minerals with 21hydras vs 9immortals hydras win. (3 : 7 ratio)

Range/speed Hydralisk vs stim/concussive marauder is a very close battle that the hydralisks win slightly more often in my testings, but it can vary. All of that with marauders that cost 25gas less per unit.
Chargelot vs Hydras is just so extremly onesided, that I don't really tried to hit some sweetspot. Chargelots win. (24 vs 24 with chargelots approaching in a ball instead of spread, hydras being in a tight ball)

All of those tests are true for 0-0 upgrades. The Immortal and the Thor get advantages from better upgrades (3/3/0 Immortals do win vs 3/3 Hydras in the 3 : 7 ratio).
Marauder vs Hydra stays the same. 3/3/0 Chargelots get insignificantly worse vs 3/3 hydras.
(didn't test stalkers, because it depends on blinking a lot and therefore it varies strongly on skill and amount level - and I'm right now on my laggy laptop). But I believe I have done medium amounts like 20vs20 before and I think stalkers in those amounts win.

So in conclusion, the discussable units are marauders and immortals which basically break even with hydras (win/lose situation dependend). Zealots and Thors could be considered softcounters to hydralisks (that always beat hydras cost- and supplyefficiently)


At best this post is a gross mischaracterization. At worst, a full lie.

It completely ignores all micro, and therefore is invalid for this argument. As usual, starcraft is more nuanced than a-move then watch the pretty colors.


Go ahead. Make a better characterization about how the hydralisk is a counter to the Thor. And don't back out now. If you can call me a liar, you are hopefully capable of telling me how I can win with 4 hydras vs 1 Thor.


Big J, that is not how you argue on TL. One does not back up his claims. You make a bold statement and call someone uninformed or a liar. Then you cite some part of gameplay that could be applicable to the situation. The most important part is that you don’t provide facts, proof or examples for your opponent to pick apart. Just leave it all hanging, like you are some authority on the game and its your opponents burden to prove you wrong.

That is how you argue on TL, by always placing the burden of proof on your opponent. Facts are not welcome.


Damn it, I knew I was doing something wrong when I was testing those units against each others. Finally I know what it was. It was actually testing the costefficiency to argue it...

Maybe you should play the game instead of testing. Vipers pull thors and hydras oneshot them. End of story.


Or you can have an infestor neural parasite it. Hydra Thor is pretty strong I hear.


Neural an SCV and pump medivacs

No no, You should use the SCV to make mass orbitals and replace your drones with MULEs.


What if you neuraled a probe and built a lot of nexus for the chrono then chrono the hacteries so they make larvae faster?

you wouldn't even need to use inject anymore


Even better--Neural a BW Probe, Neural Bisu, then have Bisu micro the probe and kill noobs with it.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Seiniyta
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium1815 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-07 19:18:11
February 07 2013 19:17 GMT
#649
We've been watching the Watch Tower change carefully on GSL. We think the change of removing the 2 Watch Towers is good for that map and are thinking of removing it on both Akilon Wastes and Akilon Flats.

Just wanted to get your feedback before doing so.

Thanks~


http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6533734833#1
Pokemon Master
nomyx
Profile Joined June 2012
United States2205 Posts
February 07 2013 19:22 GMT
#650
On February 08 2013 04:17 Seiniyta wrote:
Show nested quote +
We've been watching the Watch Tower change carefully on GSL. We think the change of removing the 2 Watch Towers is good for that map and are thinking of removing it on both Akilon Wastes and Akilon Flats.

Just wanted to get your feedback before doing so.

Thanks~


http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6533734833#1


Blizzard didn't even need to respond to that. They've proven that they don't know how to make a good map. They just need to follow the initiative of GSL/Kespa.

Hopefully we can get a more diverse ladder map pool with HotS. Tons of good undiscovered maps out there but no good way to promote them.
Mehukannu
Profile Joined October 2010
Finland421 Posts
February 07 2013 19:24 GMT
#651
On February 08 2013 04:11 nomyx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2013 03:51 Mehukannu wrote:
On February 08 2013 03:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On February 08 2013 03:37 MstrJinbo wrote:
On February 08 2013 03:32 Jarree wrote:
On February 08 2013 03:25 Big J wrote:
On February 08 2013 02:44 Plansix wrote:
On February 08 2013 02:33 Big J wrote:
On February 08 2013 02:19 JustTray wrote:
On February 08 2013 02:02 Big J wrote:
[quote]


1Thor 300/200/6 beats 4hydralisks 400/200/8
1Immortal 250/100/4 beats 2hydralisks 200/100/4; but if you actually try to even out those 50minerals with 21hydras vs 9immortals hydras win. (3 : 7 ratio)

Range/speed Hydralisk vs stim/concussive marauder is a very close battle that the hydralisks win slightly more often in my testings, but it can vary. All of that with marauders that cost 25gas less per unit.
Chargelot vs Hydras is just so extremly onesided, that I don't really tried to hit some sweetspot. Chargelots win. (24 vs 24 with chargelots approaching in a ball instead of spread, hydras being in a tight ball)

All of those tests are true for 0-0 upgrades. The Immortal and the Thor get advantages from better upgrades (3/3/0 Immortals do win vs 3/3 Hydras in the 3 : 7 ratio).
Marauder vs Hydra stays the same. 3/3/0 Chargelots get insignificantly worse vs 3/3 hydras.
(didn't test stalkers, because it depends on blinking a lot and therefore it varies strongly on skill and amount level - and I'm right now on my laggy laptop). But I believe I have done medium amounts like 20vs20 before and I think stalkers in those amounts win.

So in conclusion, the discussable units are marauders and immortals which basically break even with hydras (win/lose situation dependend). Zealots and Thors could be considered softcounters to hydralisks (that always beat hydras cost- and supplyefficiently)


At best this post is a gross mischaracterization. At worst, a full lie.

It completely ignores all micro, and therefore is invalid for this argument. As usual, starcraft is more nuanced than a-move then watch the pretty colors.


Go ahead. Make a better characterization about how the hydralisk is a counter to the Thor. And don't back out now. If you can call me a liar, you are hopefully capable of telling me how I can win with 4 hydras vs 1 Thor.


Big J, that is not how you argue on TL. One does not back up his claims. You make a bold statement and call someone uninformed or a liar. Then you cite some part of gameplay that could be applicable to the situation. The most important part is that you don’t provide facts, proof or examples for your opponent to pick apart. Just leave it all hanging, like you are some authority on the game and its your opponents burden to prove you wrong.

That is how you argue on TL, by always placing the burden of proof on your opponent. Facts are not welcome.


Damn it, I knew I was doing something wrong when I was testing those units against each others. Finally I know what it was. It was actually testing the costefficiency to argue it...

Maybe you should play the game instead of testing. Vipers pull thors and hydras oneshot them. End of story.


Or you can have an infestor neural parasite it. Hydra Thor is pretty strong I hear.


Neural an SCV and pump medivacs

No no, You should use the SCV to make mass orbitals and replace your drones with MULEs.


What if you neuraled a probe and built a lot of nexus for the chrono then chrono the hacteries so they make larvae faster?

you wouldn't even need to use inject anymore

Nah, it is just better go for airtoss straight away, maybe add some vipers and infestor mixed in to make your opponent to rip his/her hair off.
C=('. ' Q)
Sumadin
Profile Joined August 2011
Denmark588 Posts
February 07 2013 19:35 GMT
#652
On February 08 2013 04:22 nomyx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2013 04:17 Seiniyta wrote:
We've been watching the Watch Tower change carefully on GSL. We think the change of removing the 2 Watch Towers is good for that map and are thinking of removing it on both Akilon Wastes and Akilon Flats.

Just wanted to get your feedback before doing so.

Thanks~


http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6533734833#1


Blizzard didn't even need to respond to that. They've proven that they don't know how to make a good map. They just need to follow the initiative of GSL/Kespa.

Hopefully we can get a more diverse ladder map pool with HotS. Tons of good undiscovered maps out there but no good way to promote them.


They did follow GSL's initative it was called Metropolis...

You would be surprised how many GSL maps are trashed after just one season due to terrible balance or other general problems. GSL... well the Crux mapteam just knows how to make maps shiny most of the times. It would be a risky approach.
The basic key to beating a priest is playing a deck that is terrible.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 07 2013 19:36 GMT
#653
On February 08 2013 04:22 nomyx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2013 04:17 Seiniyta wrote:
We've been watching the Watch Tower change carefully on GSL. We think the change of removing the 2 Watch Towers is good for that map and are thinking of removing it on both Akilon Wastes and Akilon Flats.

Just wanted to get your feedback before doing so.

Thanks~


http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6533734833#1


Blizzard didn't even need to respond to that. They've proven that they don't know how to make a good map. They just need to follow the initiative of GSL/Kespa.

Hopefully we can get a more diverse ladder map pool with HotS. Tons of good undiscovered maps out there but no good way to promote them.


I think Blizzard is doing the right thing by letting GSL and Kespa take the lead. Both groups much better data and have proven to make really good maps. Blizzard has a lot of focus on and why make more maps when GSL already has people on it?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gfire
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1699 Posts
February 07 2013 19:38 GMT
#654
On February 08 2013 04:36 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2013 04:22 nomyx wrote:
On February 08 2013 04:17 Seiniyta wrote:
We've been watching the Watch Tower change carefully on GSL. We think the change of removing the 2 Watch Towers is good for that map and are thinking of removing it on both Akilon Wastes and Akilon Flats.

Just wanted to get your feedback before doing so.

Thanks~


http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6533734833#1


Blizzard didn't even need to respond to that. They've proven that they don't know how to make a good map. They just need to follow the initiative of GSL/Kespa.

Hopefully we can get a more diverse ladder map pool with HotS. Tons of good undiscovered maps out there but no good way to promote them.


I think Blizzard is doing the right thing by letting GSL and Kespa take the lead. Both groups much better data and have proven to make really good maps. Blizzard has a lot of focus on and why make more maps when GSL already has people on it?

GSL and Kespa only go to Korean map makers though. GSL has a few they contact for maps over and over, and for Kespa you have to live in Korea and work with the map making team, speaking korean etc. Blizzard needs to look elsewhere as well or a lot of talent will be missed.
all's fair in love and melodies
Seiniyta
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium1815 Posts
February 07 2013 19:39 GMT
#655
These are changes to ladder maps Blizzard made though. Akilon Wastes is considered a pretty good map and is made by Blizzard. They are just going to make some adjustments to it (no watchtowers) after it proved to be better for the map.
Pokemon Master
TimENT
Profile Joined November 2012
United States1425 Posts
February 07 2013 19:43 GMT
#656
Am I the only one that realized that Tanks are completely useless vs P? Immortals, zealots, archons, and all air units absolutely murder tanks in less than a second. Then you include soft counters to tanks: Colossi, storms, DTs...
So what does the tank actually manage to kill in TvP? Stalkers? Barely...Blizz please wake up :/
Barcelona / Arsenal Fan!
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 07 2013 19:51 GMT
#657
On February 08 2013 04:43 TimENT wrote:
Am I the only one that realized that Tanks are completely useless vs P? Immortals, zealots, archons, and all air units absolutely murder tanks in less than a second. Then you include soft counters to tanks: Colossi, storms, DTs...
So what does the tank actually manage to kill in TvP? Stalkers? Barely...Blizz please wake up :/


By soft counters, you mean units that can damage tanks right? Because you list DTs in there and DTs win against everything without detection.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
February 07 2013 19:56 GMT
#658
On February 08 2013 04:43 TimENT wrote:
Am I the only one that realized that Tanks are completely useless vs P? Immortals, zealots, archons, and all air units absolutely murder tanks in less than a second. Then you include soft counters to tanks: Colossi, storms, DTs...
So what does the tank actually manage to kill in TvP? Stalkers? Barely...Blizz please wake up :/


I'm actually finding having 1-3 tanks as amazing vs protoss so long as you use them to target fire colossi/Templars. It allows you to keep them honest without too much commitment. You can't reach a critical mass of them, but having like 2 of them+ghosts allows you to emp/target fire temps easily.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 07 2013 20:09 GMT
#659
On February 08 2013 04:56 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2013 04:43 TimENT wrote:
Am I the only one that realized that Tanks are completely useless vs P? Immortals, zealots, archons, and all air units absolutely murder tanks in less than a second. Then you include soft counters to tanks: Colossi, storms, DTs...
So what does the tank actually manage to kill in TvP? Stalkers? Barely...Blizz please wake up :/


I'm actually finding having 1-3 tanks as amazing vs protoss so long as you use them to target fire colossi/Templars. It allows you to keep them honest without too much commitment. You can't reach a critical mass of them, but having like 2 of them+ghosts allows you to emp/target fire temps easily.


Sieged tanks trade very well with pure colossi, last I checked? This assumes that both sides are getting equal milage out of their AOEs and the tanks get to take advantage of their 13 range.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
February 07 2013 20:14 GMT
#660
On February 08 2013 05:09 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2013 04:56 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On February 08 2013 04:43 TimENT wrote:
Am I the only one that realized that Tanks are completely useless vs P? Immortals, zealots, archons, and all air units absolutely murder tanks in less than a second. Then you include soft counters to tanks: Colossi, storms, DTs...
So what does the tank actually manage to kill in TvP? Stalkers? Barely...Blizz please wake up :/


I'm actually finding having 1-3 tanks as amazing vs protoss so long as you use them to target fire colossi/Templars. It allows you to keep them honest without too much commitment. You can't reach a critical mass of them, but having like 2 of them+ghosts allows you to emp/target fire temps easily.


Sieged tanks trade very well with pure colossi, last I checked? This assumes that both sides are getting equal milage out of their AOEs and the tanks get to take advantage of their 13 range.


Yeah, I've been testing a lot in my low rank and I find that any more than 1-3 (3 is too much usually) and I just lose too much bio DPS without enough gain in. Maybe I'm wrong and better players with faster hands can target fire more efficiently?

But 1 is usually out "front" to keep them honest while 1-2 are further back to punish them for pushing into the 1 tank. The goal is to to try to EMP temps--but to save most of the emps on Archons with tanks being used to target fire templars.

That's the plan--mostly what happens is I panic and right click everything and hope for the best (I'm platinum so I don't have the best execution)
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
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