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Carrier Micro Has Arrived - Page 8

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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RavenLoud
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada1100 Posts
December 07 2012 05:49 GMT
#141
On December 07 2012 09:48 Belisarius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2012 09:21 RavenLoud wrote:
On December 07 2012 05:07 urashimakt wrote:
On December 07 2012 02:49 RavenLoud wrote:
Wait, if the unit you attack first dies while you're in leash range, does the interceptors return to the carrier or do they auto-target something else?

(Assuming that you didn't have time to issue another attack command, e.g. you killed a marine instantaneously.)

If you do not issue a new attack target to the carrier within leash range then the interceptors will dutifully return to the carrier. Micro is required.

If there is a target within launch range, however, that will be auto-acquired.

Darn, so basically it's impossible to use this micro against mid-low hp units once you get graviton catapult and a critical mass of carriers because you kill your first target way to fast to possibly give another attack command in time.

It'll only be useful in small numbers of carriers that allow you the time to target another enemy unit before the first one dies.


I'm fairly sure that you can re-target after the unit has died, provided you do so before the returning interceptors actually reach their carrier.

Ah awesome, thanks for the info.

I'd like to see carrier armor being brought back to 4, especially if the merging of vehicle and air upgrades go through. Still, great change.
mongoose22
Profile Joined July 2012
174 Posts
December 07 2012 06:05 GMT
#142
On December 07 2012 08:58 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2012 08:52 ledarsi wrote:
Now terran just needs goliaths, or something similar.

You know, Blizzard, making the Thor switch between multi-target mode and single-target mode makes you look like you are trying to polish a turd. You know a really simple way to either do more damage to one target, or hit multiple targets? HAVE MULTIPLE UNITS. Three goliaths don't need splash damage- they can hit three mutas anyway. And they can focus fire on a single target and do increased damage.

Thors are an incredibly poorly designed unit, always have been. "Let the art lead" because giant mechs are cool? Seriously?


They have vikings already. With the micro back for the carrier, there will be similar micro with the Viking (except perhaps a little less frustrating now, since it can fly) in the way that you must choose whether to pursue the carriers or back up, and trying to mess up the carrier micro etc.

Also... a thor can do much more damage if they clump up a lot. So it's not quite the same. And did you forget thors have great DPS vs ground?

And you have vikings already. So the goliath role for mech was split up into viking and thor, which is nice because there is more specialization, while bio compositions can use thors and vikings too, offering more strategy in picking which units to use than simply using only marines (and the occasional valkyries) or only goliaths (and sometimes wraiths).


Plus, combined Armory upgrades essentially means all Terran air units are now part of the Mech tech path, and the Viking's anti-air attack has a huge range advantage over the Goliath while doing roughly the same amount of damage. The Viking's ground attack has the same DPS as a Goliath, plus it looks like one to boot, too. Not starting with 1 armor is a detriment, though.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25247 Posts
December 07 2012 06:08 GMT
#143
On December 07 2012 15:05 mongoose22 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2012 08:58 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
On December 07 2012 08:52 ledarsi wrote:
Now terran just needs goliaths, or something similar.

You know, Blizzard, making the Thor switch between multi-target mode and single-target mode makes you look like you are trying to polish a turd. You know a really simple way to either do more damage to one target, or hit multiple targets? HAVE MULTIPLE UNITS. Three goliaths don't need splash damage- they can hit three mutas anyway. And they can focus fire on a single target and do increased damage.

Thors are an incredibly poorly designed unit, always have been. "Let the art lead" because giant mechs are cool? Seriously?


They have vikings already. With the micro back for the carrier, there will be similar micro with the Viking (except perhaps a little less frustrating now, since it can fly) in the way that you must choose whether to pursue the carriers or back up, and trying to mess up the carrier micro etc.

Also... a thor can do much more damage if they clump up a lot. So it's not quite the same. And did you forget thors have great DPS vs ground?

And you have vikings already. So the goliath role for mech was split up into viking and thor, which is nice because there is more specialization, while bio compositions can use thors and vikings too, offering more strategy in picking which units to use than simply using only marines (and the occasional valkyries) or only goliaths (and sometimes wraiths).


Plus, combined Armory upgrades essentially means all Terran air units are now part of the Mech tech path, and the Viking's anti-air attack has a huge range advantage over the Goliath while doing roughly the same amount of damage. The Viking's ground attack has the same DPS as a Goliath, plus it looks like one to boot, too. Not starting with 1 armor is a detriment, though.

Hopefully they find a way. I was amazed at how little balancing they did to the Carrier throughout WoL, but this new patch has shown a willingness to try things so perhaps they will make it viable over time, even if it isn't immediately tearing things up
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
IPS.Blue
Profile Joined January 2004
Germany309 Posts
December 07 2012 10:31 GMT
#144
On December 07 2012 14:21 flyingnimbus wrote:
Unfortunately, no. While the change in this patch was a step in the right direction, carrier micro won't be complete until they implement all of NonY's suggestions. As of right now, the moment the interceptors start to return to the carrier, you won't be able to deploy them again unless you're within 8 range of the target - and they don't deploy instantaneously either.

Agree. Maybe Blizzard is scared to remove "Gravitic Catapult". Still it's huge, the original SC 2 carrier was just so frustrating to use.

On December 07 2012 10:07 Markwerf wrote:
The problem with the carrier was never this lack of micro capability so well brought to attention by Nony. It's the fact the carrier is countered by air units.. There will never be any interesting carrier micro in sc2 because it's carrier vs viking, carrier vs corruptor or carrier vs tempest

Could very well be. Time will tell.
PineapplePizza
Profile Joined June 2010
United States749 Posts
December 07 2012 11:24 GMT
#145
On December 07 2012 19:31 IPS.Blue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2012 14:21 flyingnimbus wrote:
Unfortunately, no. While the change in this patch was a step in the right direction, carrier micro won't be complete until they implement all of NonY's suggestions. As of right now, the moment the interceptors start to return to the carrier, you won't be able to deploy them again unless you're within 8 range of the target - and they don't deploy instantaneously either.

Agree. Maybe Blizzard is scared to remove "Gravitic Catapult". Still it's huge, the original SC 2 carrier was just so frustrating to use.

Show nested quote +
On December 07 2012 10:07 Markwerf wrote:
The problem with the carrier was never this lack of micro capability so well brought to attention by Nony. It's the fact the carrier is countered by air units.. There will never be any interesting carrier micro in sc2 because it's carrier vs viking, carrier vs corruptor or carrier vs tempest

Could very well be. Time will tell.


Corruptors are like devourers that cost 100m / 50g less and shoot twice as fast.

They also need to bring back the 4 armor, I dunno why they got rid of that =/
"There should be no tying a sharp, hard object to your cock like it has a mechanical arm and hitting it with the object or using your cockring to crack the egg. No cyborg penises allowed. 100% flesh only." - semioldguy
summerloud
Profile Joined March 2010
Austria1201 Posts
December 07 2012 15:26 GMT
#146
On December 07 2012 20:24 Ooshmagoosh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2012 19:31 IPS.Blue wrote:
On December 07 2012 14:21 flyingnimbus wrote:
Unfortunately, no. While the change in this patch was a step in the right direction, carrier micro won't be complete until they implement all of NonY's suggestions. As of right now, the moment the interceptors start to return to the carrier, you won't be able to deploy them again unless you're within 8 range of the target - and they don't deploy instantaneously either.

Agree. Maybe Blizzard is scared to remove "Gravitic Catapult". Still it's huge, the original SC 2 carrier was just so frustrating to use.

On December 07 2012 10:07 Markwerf wrote:
The problem with the carrier was never this lack of micro capability so well brought to attention by Nony. It's the fact the carrier is countered by air units.. There will never be any interesting carrier micro in sc2 because it's carrier vs viking, carrier vs corruptor or carrier vs tempest

Could very well be. Time will tell.


Corruptors are like devourers that cost 100m / 50g less and shoot twice as fast.

They also need to bring back the 4 armor, I dunno why they got rid of that =/


crazy idea on how to balance corruptors: make corruption energy-based and make it cost 100 energy, give corruptors 400 energy max

then watch them get raped by feedback if you dont spend your energy
LavaLava
Profile Joined January 2012
United States235 Posts
December 07 2012 18:01 GMT
#147
I love this. You don't even need interceptor follow, honestly. It is a little confusing and looks weird. But "hey, attack THAT now" is about as intuitive as it gets.
lemonbone
Profile Joined August 2009
Hong Kong154 Posts
December 08 2012 03:48 GMT
#148
I missed carrier :D
BW:1a2a3a4a5a Wol:1a2ffttttttttttt
IPS.Blue
Profile Joined January 2004
Germany309 Posts
December 08 2012 11:51 GMT
#149
On December 07 2012 20:24 Ooshmagoosh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2012 19:31 IPS.Blue wrote:
On December 07 2012 14:21 flyingnimbus wrote:
Unfortunately, no. While the change in this patch was a step in the right direction, carrier micro won't be complete until they implement all of NonY's suggestions. As of right now, the moment the interceptors start to return to the carrier, you won't be able to deploy them again unless you're within 8 range of the target - and they don't deploy instantaneously either.

Agree. Maybe Blizzard is scared to remove "Gravitic Catapult". Still it's huge, the original SC 2 carrier was just so frustrating to use.

On December 07 2012 10:07 Markwerf wrote:
The problem with the carrier was never this lack of micro capability so well brought to attention by Nony. It's the fact the carrier is countered by air units.. There will never be any interesting carrier micro in sc2 because it's carrier vs viking, carrier vs corruptor or carrier vs tempest

Could very well be. Time will tell.


Corruptors are like devourers that cost 100m / 50g less and shoot twice as fast.

Imagine Corruptors having to be morphed out of Mutas ...
killamane
Profile Joined May 2010
United States138 Posts
December 08 2012 15:26 GMT
#150
hell , its a bout time
Talic_Zealot
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
688 Posts
December 08 2012 15:31 GMT
#151
Carrier micro has.. only sent a message via the internet. This is a good, but small step towards actual carrier micro.
There are three types of people in the universe: those who can count, and those who cant.
weikor
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Austria580 Posts
December 08 2012 15:39 GMT
#152
Does noone think hots will increase in viability just because of the addition of tempests?

before, carriers fared well against vikings, however vikings could snipe a carrier all of them would launch , and then theyd kill a viking, vikings backed off, 1 for 1.
Now its much more dangerous for vikings to enter the protoss air. especially with vortex, storm, and archon support.

I personally think carrier / tempest will be quite strong, if not even too strong.
MarkCJ
Profile Joined December 2012
Canada239 Posts
December 09 2012 16:20 GMT
#153
Pretty neat I guess
"Roses are red, QoP is blue, Anti-Mage is imba, so fuck you." Startale_Life | SKT_Bisu Hwaiting!
Berceno
Profile Joined May 2012
Spain401 Posts
December 09 2012 16:29 GMT
#154
this is not carrier micro, this is crap, they made a useless thing and now everybody is happy? ... that's not the carrier micro
protoss living in da ghetto
Rorschach
Profile Joined May 2010
United States623 Posts
December 09 2012 16:45 GMT
#155
On December 07 2012 14:49 RavenLoud wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2012 09:48 Belisarius wrote:
On December 07 2012 09:21 RavenLoud wrote:
On December 07 2012 05:07 urashimakt wrote:
On December 07 2012 02:49 RavenLoud wrote:
Wait, if the unit you attack first dies while you're in leash range, does the interceptors return to the carrier or do they auto-target something else?

(Assuming that you didn't have time to issue another attack command, e.g. you killed a marine instantaneously.)

If you do not issue a new attack target to the carrier within leash range then the interceptors will dutifully return to the carrier. Micro is required.

If there is a target within launch range, however, that will be auto-acquired.

Darn, so basically it's impossible to use this micro against mid-low hp units once you get graviton catapult and a critical mass of carriers because you kill your first target way to fast to possibly give another attack command in time.

It'll only be useful in small numbers of carriers that allow you the time to target another enemy unit before the first one dies.


I'm fairly sure that you can re-target after the unit has died, provided you do so before the returning interceptors actually reach their carrier.

Ah awesome, thanks for the info.

I'd like to see carrier armor being brought back to 4, especially if the merging of vehicle and air upgrades go through. Still, great change.



I mentioned carrier armor being buffed to a friend and got shot down so hard about how OP it would be.
Was told I just want an a-move unit that wins games.

No what we have is a a-move unit that is bad.
They need more survivability and they need a build time decrease.
Improved leash range micro is a start but there are other things they can do to make the carrier a unit that requires micro and will be good in the right hands.

I don't see how this kind of buff is out of line when mech/air upgrades get combined and ultras are getting a flat 35 damage.
En Taro Adun, Executor!
Telenil
Profile Joined September 2010
France484 Posts
December 09 2012 16:48 GMT
#156
On December 07 2012 20:24 Ooshmagoosh wrote:
They also need to bring back the 4 armor, I dunno why they got rid of that =/

Because of guardian shield perhaps, that would make an effective armor of 6 against anything that can shoot it. I don't think it would be a problem in an actual game, but it may have been a concern back in the alpha days.
Just speculating here.
Mass Recall: Brood War campaigns on SC2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303166
crbox
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1180 Posts
December 09 2012 16:49 GMT
#157
Sweet! I hope this makes carrier viable again ^.^
Talic_Zealot
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
688 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-09 16:52:55
December 09 2012 16:52 GMT
#158
The thread title and reddit title are being super misleading.. No this is no way near carrier micro, it's only one step closer.
There are three types of people in the universe: those who can count, and those who cant.
TzTz
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany511 Posts
January 16 2013 19:03 GMT
#159
Nothing new an that front anymore? I tested it myself, you can't switch targets when a unit dies, so this is pretty useless ATM. Sorry for getting this thread back up, but I feel like this needs some attention, or they won't fix it, till release... They probably don't even realize it's not done properly yet...
i)awn
Profile Joined October 2011
United States189 Posts
January 16 2013 19:34 GMT
#160
Well I think this should be addressed as well since skytoss seems to be more viable in HotS.
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