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On November 20 2012 21:00 Zihn wrote:
would be simpler to just split pylon fields into 2 fields
power field: blue powers buildings, spread by pylons
warp field: white powers warp ins, spread by active warp gates and warp prisms
proxy pylon into gateway = 250 minerals + 100 sec buildtime
proxy nexus + pylon = 500 minerals + 100 sec buildtime (pylon can build while nexus is building)
it's a little less costly to proxy chese but without the overly complicated disconnected pylon mecanic that OP proposed.
Yeah, this the idea I like, as well.
Alternatively, make Warp Gates spawn units locally, but allow one Warp Gate to spawn units from all the other Warp Gates. So, you have 5 gates in your main, 1 at your natural and 1 at your third and you can spawn 7 Zealots at any one of your bases. The main change here is that Protoss players do not have to look away from their armies to macro.
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On November 20 2012 17:01 ledgerhs wrote:
Cool idea, I've been actually thinking about something similar for a long time.
What if nexus gave the power matrix and pylons extended that (the same way zerg creep works)?
With this kind of simple change, the race would lose all of it's most annoying features in a single swing:
1. No more proxy production or tech strats.
2. No more cannonrushes.
3. No more WG rushing all-ins in the early game.
4. No more having to spend 90 to 270 minerals on every new expansion just to get power for warp-ins and cannons.
5. No more annoyingly small power grids where you have to warp 24 gates worth of units to.
6. Harder process of taking new expansions, but easier time defending them once they finish.
7. Easier time defending against ling run-by and you wouldn't have to lose the game because your units got stuck in your own sim-city.
Also, a lot of the tech trees would have a more clear and distinct speciality over each other.
- With Robo, you would have slow moving units but good scouting (obs) and the ability to reinforce on the spot.
- With TC, you would get map control through blink and charge and fast moving units, but no ability to reinforce on spot.
- With SG, you would get great scouting options, the way to shut down opponents scouting, light harassing options and some support (phoenix lift).
I LOVE this post. This literally fixes everything! 
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Or just make warp gates only compatible with warp prisms?
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On November 21 2012 12:52 M.R. McThundercrotch wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 21:00 Zihn wrote:
would be simpler to just split pylon fields into 2 fields
power field: blue powers buildings, spread by pylons
warp field: white powers warp ins, spread by active warp gates and warp prisms
proxy pylon into gateway = 250 minerals + 100 sec buildtime
proxy nexus + pylon = 500 minerals + 100 sec buildtime (pylon can build while nexus is building)
it's a little less costly to proxy chese but without the overly complicated disconnected pylon mecanic that OP proposed. Yeah, this the idea I like, as well. Alternatively, make Warp Gates spawn units locally, but allow one Warp Gate to spawn units from all the other Warp Gates. So, you have 5 gates in your main, 1 at your natural and 1 at your third and you can spawn 7 Zealots at any one of your bases. The main change here is that Protoss players do not have to look away from their armies to macro.
I like it!
It's simple, 150 minerals extra isn't a crazy amount that'll completely stop proxy play, but it is obviously more of an investment. And it's much easier to spot, further discouraging hidden pylons in favor of defended advance positions.
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Some recomendations:
FF should have life bars like 400 or so.
buff protos gate units.
buff bunkers to help hold 4gate.
limit the number of units u can warp in per pylon in long distance locations(not so sure about this one)
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Just make gateways produce as fast as warpgates do currently and make warpgates have a longer cooldown. Units build slower with warpgates but you can warp them in. Switch back to gateways to build units faster but from your base. I think Starbow does that. Would mean that in PvP, the Protoss who is aggressively 4 gating his opponent would have a longer reinforcement cooldown than the Protoss that was defending with gateways. No need to over-complicate things.
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On November 22 2012 10:34 pzea469 wrote:
Just make gateways produce as fast as warpgates do currently and make warpgates have a longer cooldown. Units build slower with warpgates but you can warp them in. Switch back to gateways to build units faster but from your base. I think Starbow does that. Would mean that in PvP, the Protoss who is aggressively 4 gating his opponent would have a longer reinforcement cooldown than the Protoss that was defending with gateways. No need to over-complicate things.
Still doesn't solve the problem of max army situations where protoss has another 2 x #of warpgates supply of units ready to be instantly warped in. The warpgate is a broken mechanic to begin with tbh.
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proxy nexus purify contain vs zerg? With gateway buff this will be imba.
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On November 22 2012 10:43 GARcher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 10:34 pzea469 wrote:
Just make gateways produce as fast as warpgates do currently and make warpgates have a longer cooldown. Units build slower with warpgates but you can warp them in. Switch back to gateways to build units faster but from your base. I think Starbow does that. Would mean that in PvP, the Protoss who is aggressively 4 gating his opponent would have a longer reinforcement cooldown than the Protoss that was defending with gateways. No need to over-complicate things. Still doesn't solve the problem of max army situations where protoss has another 2 x #of warpgates supply of units ready to be instantly warped in. The warpgate is a broken mechanic to begin with tbh.
compared with terran's sacking of scvs for mules, or zergs larva pool + mass spine cancel for 220+? come on, the races are just different in these ways... the warpgate is an awesome mechanic, however i wouldn't mind if it came a little later in the tech tree.
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On November 22 2012 10:43 GARcher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 10:34 pzea469 wrote:
Just make gateways produce as fast as warpgates do currently and make warpgates have a longer cooldown. Units build slower with warpgates but you can warp them in. Switch back to gateways to build units faster but from your base. I think Starbow does that. Would mean that in PvP, the Protoss who is aggressively 4 gating his opponent would have a longer reinforcement cooldown than the Protoss that was defending with gateways. No need to over-complicate things. Still doesn't solve the problem of max army situations where protoss has another 2 x #of warpgates supply of units ready to be instantly warped in. The warpgate is a broken mechanic to begin with tbh.
Oh I see. Yeah, in that case it should just be removed. I wouldn't mind seeing that and larva inject and mules and even chrono boost all removed from the game. I don't think they really add much to it .
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they could give pylons and prism energy and make warp in cost some like 20 or 25. Protoss would have to add extra proxy pylons if they really want to commit to a push. It would really affect offensive warps but not defensive since you should have enough energy capped pylons in base
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Just Increase warp gate cool down , doesn't really effect balance and not hard to adjust, normal gates produce faster anyways.
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Posted this in other thread but feel it could be useful here.
They could do something else with warp gate tech such as moving it to Twilight council, make it so once it is researched Gateways build units faster, can morph to warp gate, which enables warp ins, but the cooldowns are a lot longer. So there are adv for and against. Would have to adjust unit stats/build times accordingly so it isnt too strong/weak.
- Edit: I see it's already been suggested
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- Edit: I see it's already been suggested
Protoss gateway units can't be prouced cost efficiently in a linear fashion while expanding. Moving WG to TC would kill PvT. :/ You would also have to buff gateway units and then have problems with proxygates, etc.
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Protoss needs to have fast reinforcements becoz their units are so weak.
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On November 22 2012 10:43 GARcher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 10:34 pzea469 wrote:
Just make gateways produce as fast as warpgates do currently and make warpgates have a longer cooldown. Units build slower with warpgates but you can warp them in. Switch back to gateways to build units faster but from your base. I think Starbow does that. Would mean that in PvP, the Protoss who is aggressively 4 gating his opponent would have a longer reinforcement cooldown than the Protoss that was defending with gateways. No need to over-complicate things. Still doesn't solve the problem of max army situations where protoss has another 2 x #of warpgates supply of units ready to be instantly warped in. The warpgate is a broken mechanic to begin with tbh.
But protoss have 150-160 army supply vs 190 army supply. Even now TvP +30mins is heavily terran favored (70% winratio) and removing warp gate would just make situation much worse. If warp gate removes, you must remove mules, nerf larva alot ja nerf somekindly terran army.
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Just make forcefields use abit more energy. so sentry doesnt come with a forcefield into battle.
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On November 23 2012 05:16 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 10:43 GARcher wrote:On November 22 2012 10:34 pzea469 wrote:
Just make gateways produce as fast as warpgates do currently and make warpgates have a longer cooldown. Units build slower with warpgates but you can warp them in. Switch back to gateways to build units faster but from your base. I think Starbow does that. Would mean that in PvP, the Protoss who is aggressively 4 gating his opponent would have a longer reinforcement cooldown than the Protoss that was defending with gateways. No need to over-complicate things. Still doesn't solve the problem of max army situations where protoss has another 2 x #of warpgates supply of units ready to be instantly warped in. The warpgate is a broken mechanic to begin with tbh. But protoss have 150-160 army supply vs 190 army supply. Even now TvP +30mins is heavily terran favored (70% winratio) and removing warp gate would just make situation much worse. If warp gate removes, you must remove mules, nerf larva alot ja nerf somekindly terran army.
Got sources to back that up?
Because good players will never let a game go past 30 minutes. The statistics could actually be from bronze leagues where no one knows what they are doing.
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On November 24 2012 00:56 GARcher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 05:16 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On November 22 2012 10:43 GARcher wrote:On November 22 2012 10:34 pzea469 wrote:
Just make gateways produce as fast as warpgates do currently and make warpgates have a longer cooldown. Units build slower with warpgates but you can warp them in. Switch back to gateways to build units faster but from your base. I think Starbow does that. Would mean that in PvP, the Protoss who is aggressively 4 gating his opponent would have a longer reinforcement cooldown than the Protoss that was defending with gateways. No need to over-complicate things. Still doesn't solve the problem of max army situations where protoss has another 2 x #of warpgates supply of units ready to be instantly warped in. The warpgate is a broken mechanic to begin with tbh. But protoss have 150-160 army supply vs 190 army supply. Even now TvP +30mins is heavily terran favored (70% winratio) and removing warp gate would just make situation much worse. If warp gate removes, you must remove mules, nerf larva alot ja nerf somekindly terran army. Got sources to back that up? Because good players will never let a game go past 30 minutes. The statistics could actually be from bronze leagues where no one knows what they are doing.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351786
Master/GM: 69% TvP
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10387 Posts
On November 22 2012 10:34 pzea469 wrote:
Just make gateways produce as fast as warpgates do currently and make warpgates have a longer cooldown. Units build slower with warpgates but you can warp them in. Switch back to gateways to build units faster but from your base. I think Starbow does that. Would mean that in PvP, the Protoss who is aggressively 4 gating his opponent would have a longer reinforcement cooldown than the Protoss that was defending with gateways. No need to over-complicate things.
the most elegant solution
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EPT
