Yeah, this the idea I like, as well.

Alternatively, make Warp Gates spawn units locally, but allow one Warp Gate to spawn units from all the other Warp Gates. So, you have 5 gates in your main, 1 at your natural and 1 at your third and you can spawn 7 Zealots at any one of your bases. The main change here is that Protoss players do not have to look away from their armies to macro.

It is relatively easy to proxy a building (look at proxy rax).

If you do this together with stronger gateway units, you gate has the potential to become very prominent again, and most possibly broken.

On November 22 2012 10:34 pzea469 wrote:
Just make gateways produce as fast as warpgates do currently and make warpgates have a longer cooldown. Units build slower with warpgates but you can warp them in. Switch back to gateways to build units faster but from your base. I think Starbow does that. Would mean that in PvP, the Protoss who is aggressively 4 gating his opponent would have a longer reinforcement cooldown than the Protoss that was defending with gateways. No need to over-complicate things.

When gateways produce as fast as warpgate every Protoss can two gate mass zealot all in every game. (WoL Beta)

GARcher

Canada294 Posts

November 23 2012 23:05 GMT

#62

On November 24 2012 01:07 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:

Show nested quote +

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351786

Master/GM: 69% TvP

#1. The statistics are half a year old and is only a part of the EU and NA servers.

#2. Only 1.68% of games reach past 30 minutes. Do you think it is logical to balance according to these statistics?

#3. 4% of the data is provided from the OP's own games

#4. Doesn't record games from across the ladder. Only from the people who actually use this tool.

Fenris420

Sweden213 Posts

November 24 2012 00:17 GMT

#63

On November 24 2012 08:05 GARcher wrote:

Show nested quote +

I don't see how his argument is in any way invalidated by his source any more than yours would be, considering you have no source. The thread in question was critisised heavily by some people because of the method in which the average MMR was calculated, but I don't know enough about statistics to judge whether it was fair critisism or not.

It is however true, that without a source, your claims about warpgate is equally speculative at best.

The point I am trying to make is that without a very good way to analyse both player MMR -and- replays from the games in question, it is very hard to make a conclusion of how warpgates can or should implicate the game. Just like larvae and swappable addons, it is the race specific reinforcement.

Having said that, I agree with you on a philosophical level. It makes no sense for a system to be in place that rewards players to stockpile money and gateways once maxed. Just as little as it makes sense to sack workers for terran or supply cheat as zerg. The underlying problem there is that there is not enough incentive to be agressive for either race so that the supply cap is not reached or at least maintained.

Mostly there are abilities like fungals, stim and vortex to blame for this. I would add force fields, but they are much less common in the late game. Without being able to "hit and run" you are better off hoarding in your base, and that is when this problem arises.

As for the topic, I think warp gates should be redesigned, no matter how much that upsets game balance. Personally I would like to see the warp prism and MSC as the only points of warp in for protoss and a limiter for how many gates each of those units can warp from. Then make warpin something that happens in parallell with regular gateway production but at a much slower pace than currently and get rid of warp gate research altogether. Possibly make MSC slightly harder to obtain than currently. Maybe let it build from forge or something to prevent ultra cheesy warp rushes.

Madkipz

Norway1643 Posts

November 24 2012 03:15 GMT

#64

I have a better idea. Make warpgate a pylon / warp-prism thing where basically you research the spell, and then you can warp units into play equal to amount of pylons you have around the map. By doing it like this you have a firm separation between gateways and warped units. This to allow for them to act as reinforcements to a push as they do now, but it`d be a novel idea and easily limited through either increased unit costs or higher cooldown.

The problem with putting limits on warpgate right now is that gateways are your only unit producing facilities and as such protoss relies on them. By moving "warpgate" to pylons you could both limit and increase its impact while having stronger tier 1 toss units.