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SC2 Experimental design changes, playable in WoL - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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AzraelArchontas
Profile Joined September 2012
United States78 Posts
October 13 2012 17:36 GMT
#21
On October 14 2012 02:26 sCCrooked wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2012 02:13 AzraelArchontas wrote:
On October 14 2012 01:45 sCCrooked wrote:
This is an interesting custom map but nothing more. It certainly won't be regarded as decent replacements for HotS balance testing.

The changes are radical, making more gimmicky abilities rather than addressing the core problems with SC2 that most good players have known about since the game's creation. This community is just catching up to what we've pretty much known all along would become the leading problems seen with balance.


Would you share your thoughts with us then what are the main problems and what do you think could fix it? I would prefer you specify what you don't like and why, rather then throwing out gimmicky and not addressing the core issues.


Its pretty obvious from what I said. Gimmicky abilities do not make up for core problems with units themselves as well as how the game works.

On the private forums for pro-gamers only, various balance discussions have taken place. A lot of them are really solid ideas (because nobody except pros are even allowed to view that forum unless you know some in real life who log in and let you look at it).

Adding more abilities is not what this game needs and in fact will just make things worse. Gateway units themselves probably need a buff of some sort whether it be to speed so you can actually catch units or whether its to the armor/damage so their damage potential is higher.

Terran units need to have adjustments as well since you can produce such cheap and incredibly powerful units for virtually no cost thanks to the existence of M.U.L.E.s

Big clunky melee units like the Ultralisk need a serious tuning because their size and inability to even get to enemy forces much less deal damage is insufficient.

Those suggestions only are the tip of the iceberg but honestly any high masters player will be able to tell you the game itself is littered with very serious problems that Blizzard either doesn't know how to, or absolutely refuses to address. Pros have all concluded the exact same things and despite the literally unanimous decisions on these issues, nothing at all has been done.

I shouldn't really have to explain all this though unless you don't really possess a good understanding of the game (high masters or above). Any player of that level or above will be able to tell you that adding a bunch of abilities is not how you fix problems like MULE abuse, Warpgate mechanics, Larva mechanics or how mining works (worker saturation necessary for optimal resource collection, etc).


:D I respect you a great deal posting a logical response I came to the same conclusion glad to know someone agrees on those issues only thing I don't agree with is I want more units/abilities but only after main balance changes I love options but when the options already available are broken it tends to leave me disheartened.
Thanks for your direct response :D I appreciate it.
sCCrooked
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1306 Posts
October 13 2012 17:43 GMT
#22
On October 14 2012 02:36 AzraelArchontas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2012 02:26 sCCrooked wrote:
On October 14 2012 02:13 AzraelArchontas wrote:
On October 14 2012 01:45 sCCrooked wrote:
This is an interesting custom map but nothing more. It certainly won't be regarded as decent replacements for HotS balance testing.

The changes are radical, making more gimmicky abilities rather than addressing the core problems with SC2 that most good players have known about since the game's creation. This community is just catching up to what we've pretty much known all along would become the leading problems seen with balance.


Would you share your thoughts with us then what are the main problems and what do you think could fix it? I would prefer you specify what you don't like and why, rather then throwing out gimmicky and not addressing the core issues.


Its pretty obvious from what I said. Gimmicky abilities do not make up for core problems with units themselves as well as how the game works.

On the private forums for pro-gamers only, various balance discussions have taken place. A lot of them are really solid ideas (because nobody except pros are even allowed to view that forum unless you know some in real life who log in and let you look at it).

Adding more abilities is not what this game needs and in fact will just make things worse. Gateway units themselves probably need a buff of some sort whether it be to speed so you can actually catch units or whether its to the armor/damage so their damage potential is higher.

Terran units need to have adjustments as well since you can produce such cheap and incredibly powerful units for virtually no cost thanks to the existence of M.U.L.E.s

Big clunky melee units like the Ultralisk need a serious tuning because their size and inability to even get to enemy forces much less deal damage is insufficient.

Those suggestions only are the tip of the iceberg but honestly any high masters player will be able to tell you the game itself is littered with very serious problems that Blizzard either doesn't know how to, or absolutely refuses to address. Pros have all concluded the exact same things and despite the literally unanimous decisions on these issues, nothing at all has been done.

I shouldn't really have to explain all this though unless you don't really possess a good understanding of the game (high masters or above). Any player of that level or above will be able to tell you that adding a bunch of abilities is not how you fix problems like MULE abuse, Warpgate mechanics, Larva mechanics or how mining works (worker saturation necessary for optimal resource collection, etc).


:D I respect you a great deal posting a logical response I came to the same conclusion glad to know someone agrees on those issues only thing I don't agree with is I want more units/abilities but only after main balance changes I love options but when the options already available are broken it tends to leave me disheartened.
Thanks for your direct response :D I appreciate it.


Well you're not exactly disagreeing with me since I basically said that core issues aren't solved by abilities. Abilities are great... AFTER the core of the game is so solid that they simply augment good aspects of play rather than trying to cover up for serious problems with the units themselves.

You can give a man the most technologically-advanced laser-guided AI-assisted weaponry but if the man you give it to is an absolute moron... well you get the point.
Enlightened in an age of anti-intellectualism and quotidian repetitiveness of asinine assumptive thinking. Best lycan guide evar --> "Fixing solo queue all pick one game at a time." ~KwarK-
Chloroplaste
Profile Joined February 2011
France281 Posts
October 13 2012 17:49 GMT
#23
Some good idea and a lot of effort in this map, great job !
Wild Weasel
Profile Joined January 2012
United States52 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-13 18:27:48
October 13 2012 18:11 GMT
#24
Two things really don't like

1. Banelings with +3 attack and that upgrade would one shot marines regardless of armor or number of medivacs. Given the massive amount of splash infestors already do, this would probably make marines obsolete in TvZ.

2. Limit terran to 4 mules at one time? After 3 or 4 base, I'm pretty sure that would make orbitals have more energy than they could deplete.

EDIT:
Read over some more stuff, two more terran changes i don't like. (I play terran, so that's why I'm mostly critiquing the terran changes. Go with what you know)

The banshee already has stupidly high dps, adding more dps against armored units might make it broken.
And re-adding the warhound with haywire missiles and an ability that deflects 50% damage? Along with two other abilities?
Velen
Profile Joined October 2012
Czech Republic5 Posts
October 16 2012 10:56 GMT
#25
That said, this map would need a LOT more publicity in order to obtain a sufficient amount of data.


you are probably right...

anyway, thanks for all feedback
Fen1kz
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation216 Posts
October 16 2012 11:14 GMT
#26
removed DT? unplayable
Protein
Profile Joined August 2010
United States132 Posts
October 16 2012 11:24 GMT
#27
On October 13 2012 22:01 Evangelist wrote:
What makes me laugh is someone, somewhere thinks that list of protoss abilities is "balanced".


You're incredibly biased if you think that Protoss have the best deal in this mod/map.

Ghosts cost 125 minerals? BCs facerape everything?
Did you even look at the warhound for a split second?
EllisA
Profile Joined April 2011
United States6 Posts
October 16 2012 15:15 GMT
#28
I don't think I would ever play this game

Those Protoss changes look abysmal. Sentry and colossus are broken after what you've done to them. Which also means protoss warpgates in general are broken. Plus, with your new warpgate restrictions, Terran early game has never sounded easier and early aggression is auto win.

At least it was a nice write up :/
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