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Carrier Micro - Page 30

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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ydeer1993
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom569 Posts
September 22 2012 22:13 GMT
#581
very good video, hopefully blizzard put this in
**MMA** - MVP - Seed !
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
September 22 2012 22:30 GMT
#582
Need more micro videos!
MMA: The true King of Wings
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland24951 Posts
September 22 2012 22:53 GMT
#583
On September 22 2012 12:45 jinzo123 wrote:
give stacking mutas back too if you gonna fix carriers blizz kkthx and patrol command on helion to shoot while moving kkthx

Why? Those are both units that have a lot of useage and their place in the game as it is, plus stacking 30/40 mutas could be a bit too powerful given unlimited unit selection.

The carrier on the other hand that doesn't fit into the game properly at present, but has a lot of potential if it is tweaked a bit. Also why must this attitude of fixing one race's unit = change other races units always come into play.

Tweak other stuff later for sure, or play around with it (it is beta after all), but the Carrier has barely been touched since beta, even bunkers have been changed numerous times
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
September 23 2012 00:47 GMT
#584
but the Carrier has not been touched since beta

fixed it for you...
SuperYo1000
Profile Joined July 2008
United States880 Posts
September 23 2012 00:50 GMT
#585
On September 23 2012 09:47 moskonia wrote:
Show nested quote +
but the Carrier has not been touched since beta

fixed it for you...



to be fair they did tighten up the interceptor flight pattern....thou that was virtually nothing
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland24951 Posts
September 23 2012 03:05 GMT
#586
On September 23 2012 09:50 SuperYo1000 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 09:47 moskonia wrote:
but the Carrier has not been touched since beta

fixed it for you...



to be fair they did tighten up the interceptor flight pattern....thou that was virtually nothing

Didn't that make interceptors more susceptible to fungal though?
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Xanatoss
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany539 Posts
September 23 2012 03:41 GMT
#587
Would love to see carrier micro in SC2
2011 OSL Finals were so exciting to watch.
In addition it would give P a Unit to strive for, except the Vortexmaker aka Mothership.
The chair slowly turns around. You see his face, but it can't be. He's not supposed to be here. Not him. Not a Protoss. Not THAT Protoss. MC says, "Hi Greg, long time no see." You back slowly out of the booth. But you can't. It's already forcefielded.
xHadoken
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
United States171 Posts
September 23 2012 06:17 GMT
#588
This is a awesome amount of knowledge that people should know! Thanks for putting this up!
Defeating a sandwich only makes it tastier
SuperYo1000
Profile Joined July 2008
United States880 Posts
September 23 2012 06:19 GMT
#589
On September 23 2012 12:05 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 09:50 SuperYo1000 wrote:
On September 23 2012 09:47 moskonia wrote:
but the Carrier has not been touched since beta

fixed it for you...



to be fair they did tighten up the interceptor flight pattern....thou that was virtually nothing

Didn't that make interceptors more susceptible to fungal though?



kinda but it was worth the improvement. They would fly way off so to get shot by spores a good distance away. Large flight pattern just make it easier for everything in the area to get a shot off
herrmus
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden144 Posts
September 23 2012 11:37 GMT
#590
arent the carriers in hots behaving a bit different from WoL carriers?
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5536 Posts
September 23 2012 21:30 GMT
#591
On September 23 2012 07:53 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 12:45 jinzo123 wrote:
give stacking mutas back too if you gonna fix carriers blizz kkthx and patrol command on helion to shoot while moving kkthx

Why? Those are both units that have a lot of useage and their place in the game as it is, plus stacking 30/40 mutas could be a bit too powerful given unlimited unit selection.

The carrier on the other hand that doesn't fit into the game properly at present, but has a lot of potential if it is tweaked a bit. Also why must this attitude of fixing one race's unit = change other races units always come into play.

Tweak other stuff later for sure, or play around with it (it is beta after all), but the Carrier has barely been touched since beta, even bunkers have been changed numerous times


They could make stacking inversly proportional to the number of Mutas selected and make this their passive ability with its own icon in the command tab and a tooltip.
ElizarTringov
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Bulgaria317 Posts
September 23 2012 22:51 GMT
#592
On September 23 2012 20:37 herrmus wrote:
arent the carriers in hots behaving a bit different from WoL carriers?


If that was a joke, good one.
Perfect practice makes perfect.
wcr.4fun
Profile Joined April 2012
Belgium686 Posts
September 23 2012 23:07 GMT
#593
On September 24 2012 06:30 maybenexttime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 07:53 Wombat_NI wrote:
On September 22 2012 12:45 jinzo123 wrote:
give stacking mutas back too if you gonna fix carriers blizz kkthx and patrol command on helion to shoot while moving kkthx

Why? Those are both units that have a lot of useage and their place in the game as it is, plus stacking 30/40 mutas could be a bit too powerful given unlimited unit selection.

The carrier on the other hand that doesn't fit into the game properly at present, but has a lot of potential if it is tweaked a bit. Also why must this attitude of fixing one race's unit = change other races units always come into play.

Tweak other stuff later for sure, or play around with it (it is beta after all), but the Carrier has barely been touched since beta, even bunkers have been changed numerous times


They could make stacking inversly proportional to the number of Mutas selected and make this their passive ability with its own icon in the command tab and a tooltip.


Stacking shouldn't work that easy imo. In brood war you couldn't do horizontal paths too much because your muta's would have the tendency to unstack a bit. The fact that it wasn't achieved by pressing a button and had these little quirks, made it that more interesting and more "natural".
Thrasymachus725
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada527 Posts
September 23 2012 23:49 GMT
#594
The carrier, even with micro will always be bad in SC2. Corruptors, vikings, marines, clumping, they have all seen to that. I am glad they put it in though, because it is a fun unit for noobs like me.

I find it funny that they initially stated the mothership was a fun unit for the noobs, but now it is the carrier, and the mothership is staple.
The meaning of life is to fight.
Corak
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany187 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-24 00:20:50
September 24 2012 00:17 GMT
#595
Great Thread!!

Being realistic I think the target change in leash range should be easy for blizzard to bring in line with there sc2 design.

The continuous deployment (not landing the interceptors while not attacking) would have to work slightly different in HotS than it did in BW - mechanicly, imo.
There would need to be a button "Continuous Deployment" that you could be activated, so the intercepters will not land as long as the carrier does not stop moving or attacking for longer than 1 sec. So if the carrier moves out of leash range they will follow it and stop attacking.
clicking it again would deactivate it (or like siege mode a second button). If the interceptors attack at this moment they will continue doing so. If the are following the carrier, they would land.

This would kill of a bit of the exiting micro Nony wanted back. But I think most of it would be there and it would be a good compromise vs the readability of the unit. I played BW (D/D+) Noob lvl. and watched a lot and never quite got all the micro of the carrier.

edit: last three words added.
Premier
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States503 Posts
September 24 2012 00:36 GMT
#596
Sick video and writeup!!
Picture Me Rollin' - DJ Premier, Titan of the Tables
Wedge
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada580 Posts
September 24 2012 01:10 GMT
#597
Tyler still making sick videos

Hope he turns it around
benzcity07
Profile Joined February 2011
United States79 Posts
September 24 2012 03:13 GMT
#598
Absolutely loved the video and the idea. Really really hope that Blizzard implements these changes after they are done fiddling with their 'new stuff'.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
Myrddraal
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia937 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-24 07:50:54
September 24 2012 07:41 GMT
#599
On September 21 2012 18:08 moskonia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 14:55 Myrddraal wrote:
On September 21 2012 14:39 moskonia wrote:
On September 20 2012 17:25 MateShade wrote:
On September 20 2012 17:17 playa wrote:
On September 20 2012 17:15 AlmondCS wrote:
On September 20 2012 16:53 mage36 wrote:
On September 20 2012 16:14 playa wrote:
I wouldn't expect many to be able to relate... Many of times, I would go something like 50-5 on a ladder and all of my losses would be to 2 gate zealot rush in t vs p. I watched a Nada replay on Korhal that blew my mind. He was killing zealots like it was nothing with vultures. So, what do I do... I practice trying to use attack move without the adv of lan. So much time wasted basically attempting the impossible, simply because I didn't know to use P instead of "A." There is absolutely no freaking skill involved in knowing micro gimmicks.

This game should come down to mastery, not perverted ideas of skill. I'm not a hypocrite. I want the better player to win. I don't want to know any tricks that he/she doesn't. If that makes me wrong/bad person, then I'm not ashamed.

BW was boring in that after a certain time, you just didn't see new players rise to the top. For a period of a few years, Koll was probably the only new face. All of these micro tricks remaining hidden from the majority of the player base is simply more obstacles in the way, which in part leads to the same faces at the highest level. If you already have a games adv, what more of an adv do you really need? More emphasis on "talent," less emphasis on when you started playing and how much of a tl.net addiction you have.

Personally, I'd rather spend more time playing than browsing tl.net. And especially not browsing for what new quirky micro trick bs do I need to learn now. It's my opinion, but I prefer a game that can be taken at face value. You don't have to always wonder what trick you're not privy to atm. That's a good thing. And if you have a problem with blizzard adding tutorials, if not simply links to videos from tl.net, then you're simply not a reasonable person. You should ask yourself why you're not a reasonable person.



It should be about talent AND the effort you put into the game. It could also be a way for Blizzard to indirectly reward people who have been playing their game for a long time. Since this thread is about carrier micro, I'll just focus on that for this post. It's not just you know about the Carrier Micro that you suddenly have the advantage. It's still pretty hard to do and takes a lot of time to master (you did say it should come down to mastery). Plus you're using APM instead of doing something else. You still have to balance it out with other things you have to do like creating more units or multiple engagements in the map.

In fact, it wouldn't really matter if you knew about the Carrier Micro but can't put it to good use or I dare say you may even be worse off by attempting it but failing bad and also neglecting other stuff you have to do in-game. I'm sure all pros know about it, but they still have different levels of success because others know how to use it to full efficiency while others don't quite grasp it fully just yet for a variety of reasons. The point is, it's not an advantage because it's not just one click of a button and it does what you tell it to do. It's something that turns into an advantage because you have trained yourself to know how to do it and do it effectively.

No one is saying Blizzard shouldn't add a tutorial. In fact it will probably be better if they do since they can tell people that this unit can do this neat micro but it's not a buff. You have to know how to use it or else it might even do more harm than good. The harder the micro is, the more chances of a player mis-micro-ing it like a greater risk but greater reward kind of thing. Do I just leave my carrier on a-move where I'm sure what it will do? Or do I micro it and have a chance of it not being as effective as just a-moving it if I don't do it properly but will increase its efficiency if I do micro it properly?



very well stated sir!

i really don't get why this idiot playa guy doesn't want these carrier micro "tricks" that add depth to your gaming experience. it's basically similar in theory to the marine stutter step. you could a-move your marines OR you could do MKP stutter step to optimize your marines. same goes with carriers. little micro features would add depth to the unit and could help people use it more efficiently. i doubt that lower level players can perfectly execute marine stutter step micro, but they aren't complaining. no one is. so why do you complain about carrier micro if there is also a comparable micro feature in stutter step?






An AlmondCS post. Could just as well leave it blank. Say something or don't say anything. It could add depth to BW to, for the 10 people that know its intricacies.


I don't see what your point is. You've derailed a perfectly good thread, it's obvious no one here shares your opinion, and from your posts it seems like we'll be seeing you in code s soon anyway! Best of luck!

On topic: I didn't know about the instant deployment in brood war (only began playing it 3 years ago) I would kill to be able to do this in sc2. Thanks tyler!

You have an upgrade for that ><


Not sure if you are being serious or not but the upgrade is only for the first 4 interceptors, and it only doubles the speed. I'd really like to see this in SC2, I think for the reasons stated by Tyler that it would definitely help make the Carrier more* viable.

*Key word being "more", whether they would actually be viable or not remains to be seen.

Umm.. No... the upgrade is for all the interceptors, just tested it. Yes it is not instant but it is very fast. About being viable, the carrier is very viable lategame, it is a very supply efficient unit, problem is it takes 2 minutes to build 1.


Umm... Yes...

Researched from: Fleet Beacon
The launch speed of the Interceptors is now increased. The first four interceptors are launched at a cooldown of .125, the last four at .25.

It only speeds up the first four.
[stranded]: http://www.indiedb.com/games/stranded
Qwizzyx
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden44 Posts
September 24 2012 16:34 GMT
#600
This would be fantastic!
but unfortunatly, blizzard have a tendency to not be able to admit that there is something wrong with their new ideas. Every time they patch something, and it's still unbalanced, they will change something else and never undo the first change :/
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