EPTIn depth look at HOTS unit design / issues - Page 3
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734pot
Australia294 Posts
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
On September 07 2012 00:09 734pot wrote: I actually really like the concept of buffing the ground form of the viking, as it really has no role within the game and this seems to be true in HotS as well. This would also help with tech switches from zerg, which I also think is a good thing. Given the fact that terran production is the most expensive, they should really be the least vulnerable to tech switches, or at least it seems this way upon shallow inspection. i agree, they could do with a little buff, no matter what else happens to the game | ||
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Visage814
United States109 Posts
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lschiss16
15 Posts
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wcr.4fun
Belgium686 Posts
TvP isn't based around mech play in WOL either and PVP in bw wasn't war of the worlds? | ||
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WickedBit
United States343 Posts
On September 07 2012 00:09 734pot wrote: I actually really like the concept of buffing the ground form of the viking, as it really has no role within the game and this seems to be true in HotS as well. This would also help with tech switches from zerg, which I also think is a good thing. Given the fact that terran production is the most expensive, they should really be the least vulnerable to tech switches, or at least it seems this way upon shallow inspection. Viking is fine as is. Their ground damage used to be higher earlier in WoL beta and what you got was terran players just massing them. They are supposed to be a unit which gives terran air superiority with a slightly useful ground mode and they do a fine job at it. | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
On September 06 2012 22:44 summerloud wrote: sounds awesome but would be terribly overpowered to kill town halls very fast, impossible to balance imho. i liked the idea of carriers moving while shooting way better. also a small hp buff to interceptors would be nice This isnt Warcraft in space! These things arent called town halls -.- | ||
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
For the hydralisk simply Un-nerf the 2 nerfs it got in the past.(Go on Liquidpedia 2 to read about the hydras patch history and you will understand) Also make the speed upgrade cost 100/100. For the Ultralisk Increase base damage from 15 to 20...because right now The splash/damage is pathetic VS non armored units. As for burrow charge, simply have it be Auto cast and make it so when its burrow charging it moves at a speed of 3. Very simple and can allow these 2 units more limelight/tactical ability | ||
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HowardRoark
1146 Posts
OT: I really feel Swarm Host's Locusts should spawn instantly and charge directly without the 3-5 second delay. It could make for an interesting mechanic sort of like the Stop Lurker micro. If you de-select autocast you can then, when situation is right, ambush and surprise enemy units passing by. However, with this animation and popping up that takes time, marine will already scan and kill everything even if they have no clue it is there. | ||
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youngtuna
7 Posts
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IIIOmegaIII
Sweden319 Posts
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Alexj
Ukraine440 Posts
1. Saying that tempest is a 1a death ball unit is stupid as shit. Yeah, strictly speaking adding 300/300/6 unit to a deathball makes it stronger -- but then again, adding probes to a deathball also makes it stronger (incidentally 6 probes cost 300/0/6 and have twice the DPS of a tempest). Tempest is a unit you have to give vision, support with your army and manually target. Watching people massing tempests and send them straight through the map was hillarious on day 1 of the beta, but you learn quickly that this doesn't work. 2. Oracle's cloaking was removed before open beta started. I can understand why people who didn't play a single game discuss HotS, but at least don't be ignorant if you bother to! 3. Some units in their current state are OP. Maybe even intentionally (so people have more incentive experimenting them). Come on, this is beta, this is the frakin' second day of beta, warhound's stats and cost will change many times. I do however agree that in its current form warhound is the most stupid unit in HotS due to how it is designed | ||
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kaokentake
383 Posts
I feel thats incorrect. I think one problem that does exist however is that carriers received a "nerf" in patch 1.5 where the interceptors clump up alot more now, making 1fungal hit almost all the interceptors. I believe carriers would be a better counter to infestor/broodlords if fungal was changed to no longer work against interceptors. How about just make interceptors immune to spells, boom I think thats perfect and thats all thats needed. So thor splash still works against interceptors, but spells (hsm/storm/fungal) do nothing to interceptors. You can still chain fungal on the carriers and kill them with corrupters or launch 50 infested terrans and fungal the carriers, you just cannot chain fungal the interceptors anymore and kill 80% of the interceptors with 2 fungals. If interceptors were buffed to be immune to spells, it would fix alot of stuff in lategame PvZ (combined with letting carriers attack while moving, and reducing buildtime by a bit). Right now I feel most zergs are starting to abuse fungal vs interceptors when the toss reponds with carriers, and it does seem a little too good. | ||
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kaokentake
383 Posts
On September 07 2012 02:12 wcr.4fun wrote: I think you were pretty high when you said the match ups reflect the way brood war was played lol. Zerg turtling up till they have an unstoppable deathball (and a wall of moveable 'static' defenses vs toss) to win in the endgame? Or ultra- or roachfest in zvz? Zerg's matchups don't reflect the way bw was played at all. TvP isn't based around mech play in WOL either and PVP in bw wasn't war of the worlds? i said non-mirrors TvZ in BW is heavily about terran trying to use timings to punish a zerg whos ultimately going for his hive doom army PvZ is largely the same thing TvP in WoL is the matchup the most unlike its BW matchup, however if you consider the roles flipped then its like BW because in BW the protoss had army/units that were very strong in small numbers (now terran is like this) and the protoss did harassment fights all over the map trying to attack the terran where his doom army wasnt while the terran was trying to turtle to his doom army | ||
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Revelatus
United States183 Posts
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On September 07 2012 03:46 Revelatus wrote: Wow, I completely agree with OP. I think the community has a better gauge on the pulse of the game than Blizzard does in about 100% of situations including the state of HotS. hey even look at my comment in the thread It would do HOTS good. | ||
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kaokentake
383 Posts
On September 07 2012 02:44 IIIOmegaIII wrote: its not rocket science to understand that ur playing terran. the whole read is "good units are the ones that are useless, cause that wont change the game. unless it benifits terran. and if its a good unit it should belong in the terran arsenal." soz dude, seems u put ur time in it and thats great, u had some nice pointers, but overall, if ur gonna sum up the game u need to be alot more objective, where u see the big picture. not out of a terran point of view. I play terran, yet i want the warhound removed, and I want mines nerfed to not hit ait (while keeping its low damage), and im fine with protoss getting a cheap flying collossi produced after cyber core that can attack my base at 8 minutes and do a powerful timing thats almost free for the protoss? and im fine with zerg getting essentially lair-tech broodlords with the swarmhost? I think im pretty nonbiased. My ultimate changelog would give each race 2 units (zerg and protoss having spellcasters as one of those units) and terran gets 2 units with no spellcaster, one of those being a transformation of a current unit. | ||
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
On September 07 2012 02:26 HowardRoark wrote: I have an eerie feeling that there are three head designers responsible for one race each. The Zerg guy seem to be the most talented, since both WoL Zerg and HotS Zerg are great in my humble opinion. New nydus uses, Ultralisk charge, Viper and perhaps even Swarm Host are well designed and refreshing. However, the Terran and Protoss designers seem to be in a lower league. Perhaps get the Zerg guy to take a role of overlooking the whole design process. I'd say the complete opposite, actually. Zerg and Protoss suffer from bad deathball design and viability that lives and dies on single high tech units (infestor/colossus) while Terran has a lot of versatility and stylistic freedom, which we see play out in the mirror quite often. Of the SC2 races, Terran plays most like a BW race. That's why it's the most fun to watch and play. | ||
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iloveav
Poland1480 Posts
There are way too many units with spells/abilities. The only micro left in the game as it seems is in mirror match ups, as in others there is only such a think in early game. With those additions, i hardly see any chance that this game will get more interesting. One example: Mothership core. I get the idea but, 60 damage and 13 range?!?!! it will be better than canon rushes vs terrans and zergs or any other P that dont make it. Or at least it looks this way. the problem here is the 13 range btw >D. I cant belive how much crap they are adding to the expansion. Its like they had a shitstorm of ideas and they decided "why not add everything, we will see later what happens". Bah, i aint buyin this shit >D. | ||
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Herect
Brazil216 Posts
Tempest - I'm just seeing a lot of Carrier nostalgia here. The tempest requires good positionting, good target fire, vision management, adress late game Protoss stalemates, and just isn't a lame addition to the Deathball. It's better in all senses. Do you have anything like that for the Carriers? In the best case, they will be micro intensive. And still, I can't see they working with SC2 mechanics. Against Bio terran they'll still be useless. Agains mech or they will roflstomp, or they will be useless. There isn't a sweet spot. Oracle - People need to figure out it yet. It's a unit that have awesome potential. It's a scout/vision management unit with worker friendly harass,. And it's not just dumb as the Observer (i put one here, i can see everything, and i hope that my enemy just don't see it XP). Entomb seems a boring spell, but i still prefer that instead of a raider thta kill everything on my mineral line before i can do anything. | ||
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