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GreatFluke
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Canada40 Posts
October 30 2011 22:52 GMT
#1
For a challenge, I'm trying to do the Bel'shir mission in WoL ideally without any anti-air units, but I may use one if it proves impossible. Im allowing myself turrets (fully upgraded at the armory), but the main idea is that I don't want to use marines or goliaths (besides those I start with and mercs).

How should I go about this? I'm planning on basically massing turrets because I know that the A.I. uses ridiculous amounts of scouts/void rays but I'm not sure if I can build enough turrets around the terrazine patches to defend while harvesting, but then again, maybe I can! Other than that, I was going to snipe harvesting probes with reapers and go mostly for a marauder ball. Anyone know any tricks for me?
Air Attack 2... Anyone?
Callynn
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands917 Posts
October 30 2011 23:15 GMT
#2
I mean no offense when I'm saying you are torturing yourself, there are plenty of brutal achievements that are more realistic and entertaining
Comparing BW with SCII is like comparing a beautiful three-master sailing ship with a modern battlecruiser. Both are beautiful in their own way, both perform the same task, but they are worlds apart in how they are built and how they are steered.
ulan-bat
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
China403 Posts
October 31 2011 00:03 GMT
#3
Take control of the middle asap, always have a line of turrets to fallback to in case you're being overwhelmed and can't get new turrets up.
Use bunkers!
"Short games, shorts, summer weather, those things bring the heat!" - EG.iNcontroL
scrubzor
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia2 Posts
October 31 2011 03:07 GMT
#4
bring a heap of scvs each time you harvest terrazine and mass repair the turrets?
oZe
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden492 Posts
October 31 2011 04:15 GMT
#5
Offence, if you want a challenge you might want to try doing it without help from the pros on TL.
The worst kinds of organized crime are religion & government.
MiKTeX
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States234 Posts
October 31 2011 04:51 GMT
#6
do you have access to orbitals?
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
October 31 2011 11:21 GMT
#7
On October 31 2011 13:15 oZe wrote:
Offence, if you want a challenge you might want to try doing it without help from the pros on TL.

It's a good way to check if:
1) Your challenge is actually challenging.
2) Your challenge would be well received or not should you decide to do it.
3) Anybody has done it before.
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
Jenia6109
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Russian Federation1613 Posts
October 31 2011 12:03 GMT
#8
After this you can play this without Anti-Ground weapons
INnoVation TY Maru | Classic Stats Dear sOs Zest herO | Rogue Dark soO
sigm
Profile Joined December 2010
192 Posts
October 31 2011 12:16 GMT
#9
All I can say is that you're crazy, man. For me, WTTJ was by very, very far the hardest mission in the game (All In? Easy peasy. In Utter Darkness? Laughable). Just completing it on Brutal took me over 20 attempts, and I though I'd go crazy before getting the achievements. So while I can't really give you any tips on your endeavor, I would absolutely love to see a VOD if you actually manage to do it.
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
October 31 2011 12:34 GMT
#10
On October 31 2011 21:16 sigm wrote:
All I can say is that you're crazy, man. For me, WTTJ was by very, very far the hardest mission in the game (All In? Easy peasy. In Utter Darkness? Laughable). Just completing it on Brutal took me over 20 attempts, and I though I'd go crazy before getting the achievements. So while I can't really give you any tips on your endeavor, I would absolutely love to see a VOD if you actually manage to do it.

that mission isn't hard at all, seriously, it took me a little squad of marine/medics and 2 scvs (my first scv died ) and 15minutes.

Isn't the turret against the rules? you should try to make only marauders and repair your scv gathering the terrazine.
Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
sigm
Profile Joined December 2010
192 Posts
October 31 2011 13:29 GMT
#11
On October 31 2011 21:34 Superouman wrote:
that mission isn't hard at all, seriously, it took me a little squad of marine/medics and 2 scvs (my first scv died ) and 15minutes.

Isn't the turret against the rules? you should try to make only marauders and repair your scv gathering the terrazine.



My problem was with the fact that the Protoss started taking Terrazine like crazy, and I had no other choice besides spreading my army, which then got demolished by their forces over and over again. Not to mention their constant harrassment of your base. Also, I had no Medic upgrades by that mission, so they were not quite as useful.

And about Turrets, even though they might be "against the rules", it would be possible to complete this mission without any AA whatsoever. Voidrays would melt your base long before you took the required number of wells, also it would be pretty much impossible to take any wells in the first place since the same Voids would kill the SCVs trying to cap, unless you sacrificed other units en masse to distract them or something.
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
October 31 2011 13:34 GMT
#12
ok this seems pretty impossible to do on brutal with no aa, unless you find some very abusive way to handle it
seg.fault
Profile Joined May 2011
United States3 Posts
October 31 2011 14:59 GMT
#13
I did it with turrets+war pigs for anti air. It's pretty challenging (for me) but by no means impossible.
Yonnua
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2331 Posts
October 31 2011 19:05 GMT
#14
Destroy all their buildings with reapers before they cap enough terrazine altars. probably just as easy as building turrets all over the map.
LRSL 2014 Finalist! PartinG | Mvp | Bomber | Creator | NaNiwa | herO
GigaFlop
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1146 Posts
October 31 2011 19:36 GMT
#15
Remember that they can warp in colossi, just like any warpgate unit. That's one thing that caught me off-guard T.T
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ "Shift-Q oftentimes makes a capital Q" - Day[9] || iNcontrol - Alligator from heaven = ^
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
October 31 2011 21:23 GMT
#16
wait what? warped collosi? :O
Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
GigaFlop
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1146 Posts
October 31 2011 21:53 GMT
#17
On November 01 2011 06:23 Superouman wrote:
wait what? warped collosi? :O

Yep. I saw the warp-in animation, except about 5x as big. Then suddenly, a colossus. No joke.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ "Shift-Q oftentimes makes a capital Q" - Day[9] || iNcontrol - Alligator from heaven = ^
jorge_the_awesome
Profile Joined January 2011
United States463 Posts
October 31 2011 23:16 GMT
#18
On November 01 2011 06:53 GigaFlop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 06:23 Superouman wrote:
wait what? warped collosi? :O

Yep. I saw the warp-in animation, except about 5x as big. Then suddenly, a colossus. No joke.


WAIT WHAT!!! That's really weird, and completely OP.
"Clothes are stupid"-Tastosis "Every dragoon that has ever been made is dumber than a bowl of hair" -Day[9] "Where are you going to take this skill now?" Stephano- "To the bank!" "Baby stuck under a car and you can't lift it up? What a wimp"-Artosis
penguinking
Profile Joined July 2011
United States23 Posts
November 01 2011 00:22 GMT
#19
are you playing zerg? because you have marines if you are playing Terran and marines with stim are the ultimate anti-unit.
seriously though i just massed a ridiculous amount of marines and medics and then stimmed to win.
Stay awhile and listen.
ClysmiC
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2192 Posts
November 01 2011 00:27 GMT
#20
On November 01 2011 09:22 penguinking wrote:
are you playing zerg? because you have marines if you are playing Terran and marines with stim are the ultimate anti-unit.
seriously though i just massed a ridiculous amount of marines and medics and then stimmed to win.

You're missing the point. Anyone could MM this mission on brutal, easily. He want's to do a different strategy, not for practicality, but for the challenge.
Vei
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2845 Posts
November 01 2011 02:08 GMT
#21
On October 31 2011 13:15 oZe wrote:
Offence, if you want a challenge you might want to try doing it without help from the pros on TL.

all the pros that frequent the single-player section and offer their advice and pro-tactics.
www.justin.tv/veisc2 ~ 720p + commentary
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
November 01 2011 10:58 GMT
#22
Uh... No AA with mass turrets... huh.
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
November 01 2011 11:13 GMT
#23
A real challenge is doing the entire campaign without building marines.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Sareth
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany1008 Posts
November 01 2011 14:40 GMT
#24
On November 01 2011 20:13 Plexa wrote:
A real challenge is doing the entire campaign without building marines.


Challenge accepted.
I just need to survive the 2nd and the 3rd mission, other than that, it could work :D
I will try this for sure ^.^
yeint
Profile Joined May 2011
Estonia2329 Posts
November 01 2011 16:25 GMT
#25
On November 01 2011 23:40 Sareth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 20:13 Plexa wrote:
A real challenge is doing the entire campaign without building marines.


Challenge accepted.
I just need to survive the 2nd and the 3rd mission, other than that, it could work :D
I will try this for sure ^.^


I'm sure you could medic/scv rush the 2nd, 3rd you can fight with SCVs until you get the handful of medic/marine colonists and then bunker/turret up.
Not supporting teams who take robber baron money.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-01 19:57:27
November 01 2011 19:56 GMT
#26
No, the real challenge is doing the entire campaign without marines OR siege tanks.

And no laboratory upgrades either.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
undyinglight
Profile Joined December 2008
United States611 Posts
November 01 2011 22:02 GMT
#27
The real challenge is doing the campaign with nothing but Marines.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=155237
Rise Up!
eu.exodus
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
South Africa1186 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-02 14:35:46
November 02 2011 14:03 GMT
#28
lol wrong thread and double post wtf
6 poll is a good skill toi have
eu.exodus
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
South Africa1186 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-02 14:36:30
November 02 2011 14:34 GMT
#29
my bad
6 poll is a good skill toi have
Manimal_pro
Profile Joined June 2010
Romania991 Posts
November 02 2011 16:54 GMT
#30
no, the real challenge is to do the missions without building absolutely anything and using only mercs
If you like brood war, please go play brood war and stop whining about SC2
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52798 Posts
November 02 2011 22:36 GMT
#31
The REAL challenge is beating the campaign with only merc marines!
ModeratorI am still alive, somehow
TL+ Member
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
November 02 2011 23:23 GMT
#32
no. the real challenge is beating the campaign with only SCVs and Spellcasters.
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-03 00:00:05
November 02 2011 23:58 GMT
#33
edited out felt like i was turning this into a reddit quality joke.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
November 03 2011 11:38 GMT
#34
On November 02 2011 04:56 Whitewing wrote:
No, the real challenge is doing the entire campaign without marines OR siege tanks.

And no laboratory upgrades either.

I'm not worried about siege tanks, they're not overly amazing until they reach critical mass. For instance, doing the dig is quite difficult without marines because there isn't a good spammable unit to deflect all the protoss and that keeps impeding on your tank mass.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
yeint
Profile Joined May 2011
Estonia2329 Posts
November 03 2011 13:33 GMT
#35
On November 03 2011 20:38 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2011 04:56 Whitewing wrote:
No, the real challenge is doing the entire campaign without marines OR siege tanks.

And no laboratory upgrades either.

I'm not worried about siege tanks, they're not overly amazing until they reach critical mass. For instance, doing the dig is quite difficult without marines because there isn't a good spammable unit to deflect all the protoss and that keeps impeding on your tank mass.


I didn't find marines necessary at all, I only used them to get the research stuff.

Depot walls on ramp, spam tanks on either side, use drill on immortals. A turret ring kept the warp prisms at bay.
Not supporting teams who take robber baron money.
Treadmill
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada2833 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-03 18:07:00
November 03 2011 18:05 GMT
#36
On November 03 2011 20:38 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2011 04:56 Whitewing wrote:
No, the real challenge is doing the entire campaign without marines OR siege tanks.

And no laboratory upgrades either.

I'm not worried about siege tanks, they're not overly amazing until they reach critical mass. For instance, doing the dig is quite difficult without marines because there isn't a good spammable unit to deflect all the protoss and that keeps impeding on your tank mass.

Float a barracks, kill all the protoss with the mining laser. The dig is depressingly easy no matter what

Edit: I DID run through most of the campaign trying to do it with mech. Unfortunately a LOT of the missions are horribly gas-capped so thats why marines are so strong.
Magictek
Profile Joined January 2011
United States17 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-03 19:28:10
November 03 2011 19:27 GMT
#37
Are you asking this on Brutal or another difficulty, To complete the mission where no gas is sealed off on Brutal, I had a hit squad of hellions. That might help for your slow crawl of turrets to just do that.
sigm
Profile Joined December 2010
192 Posts
November 03 2011 20:54 GMT
#38
You want a real challenge? No upgrades whatsoever, no mercenaries, mission starting units ONLY. And you have to play naked. Each time you complete a mission, take a shot of your preferred drink (80 proof at least). Each time you lose, pour a gallon of ice water on yourself.
undyinglight
Profile Joined December 2008
United States611 Posts
November 03 2011 22:59 GMT
#39
On November 03 2011 01:54 Manimal_pro wrote:
no, the real challenge is to do the missions without building absolutely anything and using only mercs


Interestingly enough this is a challenge in the single player challenge thread, the idea originated from me and I have been working on it
Rise Up!
mikiao
Profile Joined May 2010
United States161 Posts
November 04 2011 01:03 GMT
#40
ghost nuke for your anti air?
"I must rule with eye and claw — as the hawk among lesser birds. "-Duke Leto Atreides
Kornholi0
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada634 Posts
November 04 2011 03:59 GMT
#41
If you mass marauder and pre-emptively build a turret at each gas every 30 seconds you should be able to do this...

The trick is to defend with your original units while you get turrets up. Once you've secured the first 3 terrazine gas, take the middle with marauders.

If you don't have the medic upgrades, it might be tough, but marauder medic is quite good.
Team Channel: VTeX Team Co-leader: AGGhost 223 Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/agghost
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
November 04 2011 05:49 GMT
#42
On November 04 2011 10:03 mikiao wrote:
ghost nuke for your anti air?


Ghosts shoot up so he wouldn't be allowed to build them.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Bswhunter
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia954 Posts
November 04 2011 06:16 GMT
#43
On November 04 2011 14:49 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2011 10:03 mikiao wrote:
ghost nuke for your anti air?


Ghosts shoot up so he wouldn't be allowed to build them.

They have the ability that disable their auto attack.
Please do this mission where the only way you can kill air units is by nuking them
Stop browsing and do whatever it is you're supposed to do. TL will still be here when you get back
TiTanIum_
Profile Joined August 2011
Brazil1335 Posts
November 04 2011 19:41 GMT
#44
On November 04 2011 15:16 Bswhunter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2011 14:49 Whitewing wrote:
On November 04 2011 10:03 mikiao wrote:
ghost nuke for your anti air?


Ghosts shoot up so he wouldn't be allowed to build them.

They have the ability that disable their auto attack.
Please do this mission where the only way you can kill air units is by nuking them


This might actually work.
SpoR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1542 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-04 21:40:37
November 04 2011 21:39 GMT
#45
this is on brutal? I think it's impossible. Not because the air will rape you, but because you need the cheap high dps units like marines and goliaths to fight all that crap that the protoss ground forces contain.

edit- if you can somehow time all the attacks to line up with nukes though, that would be legit.
A man is what he thinks about all day long.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
November 04 2011 22:30 GMT
#46
On November 05 2011 06:39 SpoR wrote:
this is on brutal? I think it's impossible. Not because the air will rape you, but because you need the cheap high dps units like marines and goliaths to fight all that crap that the protoss ground forces contain.

edit- if you can somehow time all the attacks to line up with nukes though, that would be legit.


You could do it with siege tanks, turrets and hellions I think, it would be tough, but do-able. You'd have to use nukes the clear the area, then quickly build 3-4 turrets while your tanks siege up, and hellions shield for your tanks. You'd need to use hellion hit squads to pick off probes trying to block the gas, suicide 3-4 of them in. You'd need to clear the base in the middle of the map and take it pretty quick. It'd be tough, but do-able, especially if you have a bunch of mercenaries available like the marauders and the siege tank ones.

Nukes to clear areas though to give you time to get the turrets up would be a badass way to do it.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
November 06 2011 09:38 GMT
#47
I just realized, you can't use nukes, you can't have ghosts available for that mission, or spectres. You get them in the mission after that one -_-.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
shoop
Profile Joined November 2009
United Kingdom228 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-06 15:50:15
November 06 2011 15:41 GMT
#48
I think it should be hard but doable with turrets, marauders and hellions. Tanks may be useful but I don't know that they have enough ground forces to make them worthwhile. Nukes might also work, but you'll have to keep the ghosts from shooting up somehow Do you have ravens?

@plexa: I did the whole campaign on hard mode without building any units whatever. I suspect that brutal without marines would be easy by comparison, except perhaps in the first few missions when there are no alternatives yet (esp. zero hour).
mikiao
Profile Joined May 2010
United States161 Posts
November 06 2011 20:16 GMT
#49
On November 06 2011 18:38 Whitewing wrote:
I just realized, you can't use nukes, you can't have ghosts available for that mission, or spectres. You get them in the mission after that one -_-.



Damn...go back and redo it? Man...the first great idea I've had in millennia and it turns out to be a dud.
"I must rule with eye and claw — as the hawk among lesser birds. "-Duke Leto Atreides
Atreides
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2393 Posts
November 06 2011 20:41 GMT
#50
On November 03 2011 20:38 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2011 04:56 Whitewing wrote:
No, the real challenge is doing the entire campaign without marines OR siege tanks.

And no laboratory upgrades either.

I'm not worried about siege tanks, they're not overly amazing until they reach critical mass. For instance, doing the dig is quite difficult without marines because there isn't a good spammable unit to deflect all the protoss and that keeps impeding on your tank mass.



Just wall with permacloak ghosts. Don't need tanks or marines
IGotPlayguuu
Profile Joined June 2011
Italy660 Posts
November 06 2011 20:44 GMT
#51
It's gonna be a hard challenge
BW |JaeDong|Bisu|FBH|BeSt| SC2 |MC|DRG|MMA|TLO|HuK|July|ClouD| ||| Boxer best player ever! ||| "HuK never use penix" ||| I <3 SeleCT ||| GO Space! ||| Nerf Roach! |||
Geovu
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Estonia1344 Posts
November 06 2011 21:27 GMT
#52
On November 04 2011 05:54 sigm wrote:
You want a real challenge? No upgrades whatsoever, no mercenaries, mission starting units ONLY. And you have to play naked. Each time you complete a mission, take a shot of your preferred drink (80 proof at least). Each time you lose, pour a gallon of ice water on yourself.

Or you could just play solitaire...
Conquerer67
Profile Joined May 2011
United States605 Posts
November 08 2011 02:46 GMT
#53
On November 07 2011 05:16 mikiao wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2011 18:38 Whitewing wrote:
I just realized, you can't use nukes, you can't have ghosts available for that mission, or spectres. You get them in the mission after that one -_-.



Damn...go back and redo it? Man...the first great idea I've had in millennia and it turns out to be a dud.


You can't use units that you haven't had unlocked when you actually played the mission. IE, using spectres in Devil's Playground, or using BCs in The Evacuation.

As for what a real challenge is, complete every single mission with only building workers, no combat buildings or units. You have to suicide your starting units too, no mercs, and the only armory upgrades you can get are orbital command and the two SCV ones. Try that one out.
I hate when people compare SC2 and rochambeu. One race isn't fucking supposed to counter another one. | Protoss isn't OP. Their units on the other hand....
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
November 08 2011 05:35 GMT
#54
On November 08 2011 11:46 Conquerer67 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2011 05:16 mikiao wrote:
On November 06 2011 18:38 Whitewing wrote:
I just realized, you can't use nukes, you can't have ghosts available for that mission, or spectres. You get them in the mission after that one -_-.



Damn...go back and redo it? Man...the first great idea I've had in millennia and it turns out to be a dud.


You can't use units that you haven't had unlocked when you actually played the mission. IE, using spectres in Devil's Playground, or using BCs in The Evacuation.

As for what a real challenge is, complete every single mission with only building workers, no combat buildings or units. You have to suicide your starting units too, no mercs, and the only armory upgrades you can get are orbital command and the two SCV ones. Try that one out.


Hrm... would have to use a lot of planetary fortresses.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
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