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If there was a thread about it already then feel free to delete this one.
Warnining: Big Spoiler ahead.
I have read countless posts about possible story in the next expansion but i have not found a single one fully explaining of what happened in Wings of Liberty.
After finishing campaign i felt the plot had no sense at all, i had many unanswered questions and not until i played the single player for second time, did i realize how great this story trully is.
In this thread i ll try to show what is. i think, NoT being told directly in the campaign but has great affect on story. Let's start with couple of questions i asked myself after last cinematic:
-If Tychus was hired by Mengsk, why didnt he kill Raynor instead? Emperor ordered him to kill Kerrigan but how the hell did he know that Raynor (and Tychus), with only one flagship, would be able
to deafeat Queen of Blades?
-How did the Mobius fundation know where to find Xel Naga artifacts, and whats more important, how to use it and what effect it will have on Zerg.
-Is doc. Narud - Samir Duran?
-Why is Mengsk experimenting with Hybrid? where did he get that technology?
The answers will show us what was going on in the backround of Jim Raynor crusade.
But let us beging from the
Brood War:
1.Dark Voice forces(making this command part of his genetic system or something like that) Overmind to wipe the Protoss, since the zerg are the only race albe to do that. Success would secore his return.
Plan fails, overmind dies, swarm is in disarray. Dark Voice has to think of something new.
2. Suddenly Duran appears by the Queen of The Blades. He helps her to take control of every zerg in the sector (making Swarm one again, once again the most powerful force around), while destroying
psi disrubtor - a major threat to unity of the broods. Then he dissappears.
3. Zeratul finds Duran on a distant moon, creating hybrids. Our "ghost" reveals thats he is working for a "far greater power" - propably Dark Voice.
4. Kerrrigan destroys "3 fleets", including Mengsk's , becoming the most powerful force in the sector.
Now can finaly begin to "analyze" WoL story:
Lets see what we learn from WoL campaign. Mengsk forces Tychus to kill Kerrigan. Tychus and Mobius Fundation help Jimm Raynor collect the Xel Naga artifacts needed to weaken Queen Of Blades.
Fundation is run by doc. Narud - we can assume that is in fact Duran.(proof: as Kerrigan states: "I can see through you charade "dr. Narud", i know what are you really up to!") Valerian Mengsk states: he needed Raynor to assault Char becouse he is the one who knows Kerrigan.
Jim Raynor finds a dominion facility where someone created Hybrid..technology only known to Dark Voice and Samir Duran.
Having all this in mind this is how I Think story went after point 4:
5. Zeratul discovers p 1. He sees the Future where Dark Voice eliminates Prottos using Hybrids and Zerg Swarm. The only hope is Kerrigan, propably becouse with her free will (which Overmind didnt have) she can resist
Dark VOice and choose to fight back. In other words - > DV needs the control over zerg to wipe out the Protoss, and Kerrigan can interrupt his plans.
6. Samir Duran contacts Arcturus Mengsk. He offers him a way to Kill Kerrigan, an opportunity Emperor would never miss. To do so they need to collect Xel Naga artifacts which will weaken Queen of Blades, make her vurnable.
7.Mobieus Fundation is created in order to locate those artifacts. Duran is in charge, though he is in discuise as a doctor Narud. Using funds the Dominion provides him with, he creates
even more labs with Hybrids.(question remains - does Mengsks know about this?)
8. TO assault Char they need someone who knows Queen of BLades tactics, and who will do everything to save her. Voila here comes Jim Raynor.
9. Raynor would never work with Arcturus Mengsk and it was unclear would he kill Kerrigan if a chance came. Thats why....->
10. Arcturus Mengsk gives Mobieus FUndation to Valerian so dr. Narud (samir Duran) can play on mengsk's son ambition and make him belive he can defeat Kerrigan and become hero of Dominion(become a better
Emperor than his father).(--actualy it might be that Valerian is just following his father's orders - we dont know that for sure) In the same time Arcturus makes a deal with old budy of Raynor - Tychus and orders him to get close to Raynor,
offer him a job(find the Xel Naga artifacts that will later weaken Queen of BLades) and kill Kerrigan when the chance comes. (in this point Mengsk knows they will invade CHar at some point with the help of the domionion!)
11. Tychus makes contact with Raynor and together they collect the artifacts.
12. Zeratul warns Raynor not to kill Kerrigan.
13. Valerian contacts Raynor, they assault Char, use artifact, transform Kerrigan, Tychus gets his order to shoot the queen, Raynor kills Tychus, Dark Voice plan fails again.
14. Zerg will be Free?...
P.S Sorry for the typos.
Feel free to discuss.
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Good stuff and all dr. narud is, is duran backwards.. viola! But yes I agree with you my only problem with the story was i didn't feel the epicness and a game worth a 10+ year wait. Especially in 3 different games, make each one very detailed and legendary. You should talk bout what you think will come in Heart Of the Swarm. PS: How come in the trailer to sc 2 we see small clips that werent in any of the CG movies in WOL? ie- mutalisks flying through a canyon, zeratul ducking and dodging something attacking him and last, the marines forming a line of defense while a nuke goes off in the background???
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13.5 Kerrigan loses her control of the Zerg.
14. Zerg are free (for now)
And probably this will happen.
15. Hybrids & Kerrigan use their psionic abilities to control as much of the Zerg as possible. Which is probably why, Narud wanted her to be "less" zerg, because if Kerrigan becomes human, she is now more vulnerable and easier to kill, not to mention, her control of the zerg is weaker.
Basically I think Heart of the Swarm will be battle of the control of the zerg.
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10387 Posts
I really.. really REALLY don't like how apparently the "dark voice" was controlling the Overmind the entire time :l it really sort of ruins the Zerg campaign in vanilla SC.
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Mensk and Valarian most likely know about the Hybrids and allowed Duran (or Narud?) to continue with his research as he promised them the Hybrids as a new addition to their army so they could control not only the rebellion, but also the Protoss and Zerg. However, Duran simply wanted to continue his research knowing that when Kerrigan would be gone, he and the Hybrids could take over the Zerg and destroy the Protoss and Terran instead.
In fact, we can assume that Duran is several thousands of years old and has the possibility to shape-shift, thus allowing him to enter the Terran ranks as a succesfull researcher and increasing his research with more and better equipment as the greedy Mensk family wanted a secret weapon to fight their many enemies.
However, Kerrigan is to strong in her Zerg form and Duran wants her dead, so the entire of Starcraft 2 is created; Tychus, an old friend from Rayner, is (most likely) forced into a deal where he needs to contact Rayner and then let him find the artefact and deal with any opposing Zerg and Protoss at the same time. Then, Valarian, who owns the Moebius foundation but is secretly controlled by Duran, comes into contact with Rayner to activate the artefact and force the assault on Char. When everything would go as plan, Tychus would kill Kerrigan, Valerian would activate the bomb is the suit of Tychus, thus killing him and Rayner. So, in one blow Kerrigan, Raynor and a convict would be dead and Duran could unveil his plan.
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An important thing to notice is that Kerrigan is not really human but more a Zerg / Human hybrid (as she has, for example, still the strange "hair") and probably can even become more powerful then she already was. However, Duran will continue his plans which will create a battle between Kerrigan and Duran to control the Zerg while the Terran colonies will face a massive civil war when it becomes public what the Mensk family did (and allowed in the first place).
Another interesting point is the question; "what did the overmind know about Kerrigan?". Could the Overmind knew that Kerrigan would only be powerfull enough to battle the Hybrids if she would become a Hybrid herself? Thus, the Overmind knew about the artefact and knew that it would, in a (near) future be used against his Swarm but also knew that an infested human with extreme psionic capabilities would create a Hybrid, and thus a worthly opponent for the Hybrids from Duran (which is the reason why Duran wanted her dead)? This could even indicate that the Overmind knew about Kerrigan long before she was infested and that her capture was planned already a long time before the Mensk family initiated their plans to use the Zerg to destroy the Terran capital. From another point of view, would Duran already be involved as this time, promising Mensk a secret weapon, at the cost of killing Kerrigan (by leaving her behind. So, Duran underestimated the Overmind by thinking it (?) wouldn't know about Kerrigan in the first place)?
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The whole "the Overmind wasn't bad, just being controlled by outside forces" angle reminded me a LOT of Warcraft 3's revelation about the Burning Legion controlling the Orcs. In both cases the story takes a huge step back (not in quality, just perspective) and views the whole situation in a completely different way.
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On August 24 2010 20:44 gonzomd wrote:
The whole "the Overmind wasn't bad, just being controlled by outside forces" angle reminded me a LOT of Warcraft 3's revelation about the Burning Legion controlling the Orcs. In both cases the story takes a huge step back (not in quality, just perspective) and views the whole situation in a completely different way.
Makes me fear for a world of starcraft with good Zerg. (It was all just a misunderstanding!)
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On August 24 2010 20:39 Weemoed wrote:
Mensk and Valarian most likely know about the Hybrids and allowed Duran (or Narud?) to continue with his research as he promised them the Hybrids as a new addition to their army so they could control not only the rebellion, but also the Protoss and Zerg. However, Duran simply wanted to continue his research knowing that when Kerrigan would be gone, he and the Hybrids could take over the Zerg and destroy the Protoss and Terran instead.
In fact, we can assume that Duran is several thousands of years old and has the possibility to shape-shift, thus allowing him to enter the Terran ranks as a succesfull researcher and increasing his research with more and better equipment as the greedy Mensk family wanted a secret weapon to fight their many enemies.
However, Kerrigan is to strong in her Zerg form and Duran wants her dead, so the entire of Starcraft 2 is created; Tychus, an old friend from Rayner, is (most likely) forced into a deal where he needs to contact Rayner and then let him find the artefact and deal with any opposing Zerg and Protoss at the same time. Then, Valarian, who owns the Moebius foundation but is secretly controlled by Duran, comes into contact with Rayner to activate the artefact and force the assault on Char. When everything would go as plan, Tychus would kill Kerrigan, Valerian would activate the bomb is the suit of Tychus, thus killing him and Rayner. So, in one blow Kerrigan, Raynor and a convict would be dead and Duran could unveil his plan.
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An important thing to notice is that Kerrigan is not really human but more a Zerg / Human hybrid (as she has, for example, still the strange "hair") and probably can even become more powerful then she already was. However, Duran will continue his plans which will create a battle between Kerrigan and Duran to control the Zerg while the Terran colonies will face a massive civil war when it becomes public what the Mensk family did (and allowed in the first place).
Another interesting point is the question; "what did the overmind know about Kerrigan?". Could the Overmind knew that Kerrigan would only be powerfull enough to battle the Hybrids if she would become a Hybrid herself? Thus, the Overmind knew about the artefact and knew that it would, in a (near) future be used against his Swarm but also knew that an infested human with extreme psionic capabilities would create a Hybrid, and thus a worthly opponent for the Hybrids from Duran (which is the reason why Duran wanted her dead)? This could even indicate that the Overmind knew about Kerrigan long before she was infested and that her capture was planned already a long time before the Mensk family initiated their plans to use the Zerg to destroy the Terran capital. From another point of view, would Duran already be involved as this time, promising Mensk a secret weapon, at the cost of killing Kerrigan (by leaving her behind. So, Duran underestimated the Overmind by thinking it (?) wouldn't know about Kerrigan in the first place)?
I think that's exactly what Tassadar was trying to say when talking to Zeratul.(about the Overmind making Kerrigan to free the Zerg)
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What you say actually makes a whole lot of sense! If they had worked all that stuff into the plot, I would have been much more satisfied with the campaign (although it was a lot of fun gameplay wise).
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Makes me fear for a world of starcraft with good Zerg. (It was all just a misunderstanding!)
I've also been worried that the story may go this route... Blizzard has been known to do quite a bit of backtracking on canon. For some rather... extreme... evidence of this, you may want to take a look at the WarCraft 1 manual... The human section makes numerous references to "God," in the medieval sense. The tech structure to make Paladins has a cross, there are references to "angels," etc...
ANYWAY, what *I* want to know is how Zeratul didn't know all of this in advance when he touched minds with the Overmind. And does anybody remember how Kerrigan spoke as if she resented having been infested in the first place in BW? Like, telling Arcturus something like, "You're the one who put me through this hell" or something to that affect. And... at the climax of WoL... she's trying to destroy the Artifact and keep herself infested? WTF?
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On August 24 2010 21:55 ghettohobbit2 wrote:And... at the climax of WoL... she's trying to destroy the Artifact and keep herself infested? WTF? From my point of view (with the idea that the Overmind knew that Kerrigan had to become a Human / Zerg hybrid to save the Swarm) the reason for this behavior is that Kerrigan simply didn't knew about her future as the Overmind never told her anything about her future or about the future of the universe in general.
The Overmind knew that the artefact existed and that it was not only a destructive weapon against the Swarm, but also the key to survival as it could transform the infested Kerrigan into a hybrid, and thus being able to battle the hybrids Duran was creating. When the Overmind would have told Kerrigan this information, she would have reacted very different then she has now over the course of time when she was infected and by doing this most likely reveal to Duran that she knew about the upcoming events. That would only ensure that Duran would even put more pressure on Kerrigan so he could destroy her before she would become to powerful.
However, Kerrigan didn't knew this information and Duran saw her, as long as the artefact was still buried, as a minor problem. Then, when everything was set in motion and the artefact was unveiled, Kerrigan became aware of it's destructive powers against the Zerg and decided to destroy it so she could save the creatures she loved. In fact, she did exactly as the Overmind hoped; to create a mighty and united Swarm that would be so powerful that only the Xel'Naga artefact could contain them and thus creating the gateway to the freedom of the Zerg through a Human / Zerg hybrid or to end the threat from Duran through the destruction of the artefact.
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On August 24 2010 21:39 Grend wrote:
Makes me fear for a world of starcraft with good Zerg. (It was all just a misunderstanding!)
I guess no one ever said they were "good" before the dark voice got to them though. Just that it gave them the overriding compulsion to destroy the protoss. I imagine they still wanted to assimilate everything.
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moebius foundation existed in SC1/BW.
They're in the manual as one of the organizations. But I don't think they really come into the story line.
I dislike the story line. I thought the story from SC1 was that the zerg wanted to infest the protoss to increase the strength of their brood. And the protoss wanted to destroy the zerg because they were a rival xel'naga creation and had turned against the xel'naga in the past. You could easily get away from that saying Kerrigan had different motives than the Overmind, but don't bring this 3rd party dark voice crap into play. It's sooo much like Warcraft 3.
"Good zerg" would be so stupid. Zerg aren't even supposed to be autonomous, except for cerebrates.
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Why would Duran work with Kerrigan in SC1 to secure Kerrigan's control over the broods, then work with raynor in WoC to weaken it again? Why would Duran or the Dark Voice allow Kerrigan to kill the second overmind?
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On August 24 2010 21:39 Grend wrote:
Makes me fear for a world of starcraft with good Zerg. (It was all just a misunderstanding!)
How else are they going to make Galaxy of Starcraft with three playable factions?
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On August 25 2010 00:36 Oliwoli wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2010 21:39 Grend wrote:
Makes me fear for a world of starcraft with good Zerg. (It was all just a misunderstanding!) I guess no one ever said they were "good" before the dark voice got to them though. Just that it gave them the overriding compulsion to destroy the protoss. I imagine they still wanted to assimilate everything.
Yup, Overmind was never "good", i guess he wouldnt mind to destroy the prottos. He had forseen that by doing so(anihilating toss race), he would bring doom on himself and what's more - this would lead to zerg enslavement. That was the main reason for creating Kerrigan. Disobeying Dark Voice was not for "good cause", not for the sake of the "good" of universe, it was matter of zerg surviving or not.
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As I understood it, the Overmind was 'reprogramed' by the dark voice to kill all protoss. It could not resist the compulsion, but it didn't want to be a slave, and didn't want to kill the protoss. The zerg were not an 'evil' race by design. If I understand.
therefore it jumped on the chance to create kerrigan who had not been conditioned by the dark voice, then set itself up to be able to be killed.
Still though Kerrigan came out of the transformation with none of her human inhabitions and pure rage
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On August 24 2010 17:36 Neshezim wrote:
7.Mobieus Fundation is created in order to locate those artifacts. Duran is in charge, though he is in discuise as a doctor Narud. Using funds the Dominion provides him with, he creates
even more labs with Hybrids.(question remains - does Mengsks know about this?)
I didn't really think about it, but the secret mission Piercing the Shroud might actually have implications on the story instead of being another way for Raynor/Player to see the Hybrids besides the crystal. If Naurd/Duran is working with the Dominion he might have been the one that was in charge of that lab, though it is kind of weird the lab exists because Duran should already know how to make Hybrids. Possibly Mengsk wanted to make them himself and somehow found out about Duran's Hybrids?
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On August 25 2010 02:05 Primadog wrote:
Why would Duran work with Kerrigan in SC1 to secure Kerrigan's control over the broods, then work with raynor in WoC to weaken it again? Why would Duran or the Dark Voice allow Kerrigan to kill the second overmind?
My take on this is
a. Zerg has to be one unified race to match the power of Protoss (thus destroy them according to Dark Voice's will)
b. Zerg was in huge chaos after the Overmind was controlled by the UED
c. Only Kerrigan has both the ambition and (potential) power to completely drive UED out of the sector
So if Duran kills Kerrigan at that time, there's a chance that Zerg will be enslaved by humans through the second Overmind. That surely is not a sound plan for Duran despite what the prophecy says. Duran sacrificed the chance of a dead Kerrigan for the well-being of Zerg - or the value of Zerg as a weapon for the Dark Voice.
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On August 25 2010 03:27 firedodo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 02:05 Primadog wrote:
Why would Duran work with Kerrigan in SC1 to secure Kerrigan's control over the broods, then work with raynor in WoC to weaken it again? Why would Duran or the Dark Voice allow Kerrigan to kill the second overmind? My take on this is a. Zerg has to be one unified race to match the power of Protoss (thus destroy them according to Dark Voice's will) b. Zerg was in huge chaos after the Overmind was controlled by the UED c. Only Kerrigan has both the ambition and (potential) power to completely drive UED out of the sector So if Duran kills Kerrigan at that time, there's a chance that Zerg will be enslaved by humans through the second Overmind. That surely is not a sound plan for Duran despite what the prophecy says. Duran sacrificed the chance of a dead Kerrigan for the well-being of Zerg - or the value of Zerg as a weapon for the Dark Voice.
Exacly. Duran was helping Kerrigan only to secure Zerg race as a future weapon in the hands of Dark Voice. Together with Queen of Blades they took control over the broods, destroyed all opponents and made Swarm the most fearful force in the Sector - just as Fallen One needed.
Shortly after Duran disappeared - his job was done and soon after he contaced Mengsk and began a plot to "overthrow" Kerrigan.
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10387 Posts
In the vanilla SC, Overmind never stated he wanted to kill all the Protoss, what he wanted to do was completely natural, he just wanted to assimilate the Protoss into his own race to become perfect. Skip to 1:05 + Show Spoiler +, and hear the Overmind's speech in the briefing, would you even be able to tell that the Overmind is being controlled by the "dark voice"? His desire to become perfect seems just so completely natural.. and the quality of the script makes me cringe at SC2's.
I don't care for Warcraft 3's revision of the Orcs being not that evil, it's fine to me. It adds a nice dimension of character to the Orcs as a race.. but making the Overmind a slave to the dark voice? That just dumbs down the character.
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zeratul should bone kerrigan and make the ultimate human-zerg-protoss hybrid baby and then proceed to conquer the xel-naga :D
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There's one thing I still don't understand. As is planned out, the life of Kerrigan is actually in Tychus' hands. If Arcturus, Valerian and Narud are all behind this, on what ground do they base their trust of Tychus? He may be a little bit resentful of Raynor leaving him in prison, but after all they went way back and had a lot in common. It turned out that Tychus DID screw up. As I personally understand it, Tychus intentionally gave Raynor the chance to dispose of him in Kerrigan's hive, and left the Mengsks and Narud undone.
p.s. It may be hard to believe but Arcturus seemed to know about half the dominion's fleet are out when he asked Valerian to explain it. He pretended to be surprised when he saw Raynor, too, according to what the OP says.
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campaign is more retarded as you think about it more and more
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Samir Duran is Dark Voice.
Calling it.
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On August 25 2010 10:46 firedodo wrote:
There's one thing I still don't understand. As is planned out, the life of Kerrigan is actually in Tychus' hands. If Arcturus, Valerian and Narud are all behind this, on what ground do they base their trust of Tychus? He may be a little bit resentful of Raynor leaving him in prison, but after all they went way back and had a lot in common. It turned out that Tychus DID screw up. As I personally understand it, Tychus intentionally gave Raynor the chance to dispose of him in Kerrigan's hive, and left the Mengsks and Narud undone.
p.s. It may be hard to believe but Arcturus seemed to know about half the dominion's fleet are out when he asked Valerian to explain it. He pretended to be surprised when he saw Raynor, too, according to what the OP says.
1. Tychus was trapped in his suit. Did he disobey the order to kill Kerrigan , he would end up dead, killed by the mechanics in his armor. As Mengsk said in the "DEAL" cinematic, his suit was his new prison.
2. Tychus gave Raynor the chance to dispose of him? When? From what i recall he actualy pulled the trigger, he wanted to kill Kerrigan. It rather seemed that he counted on Raynor letting him kill queen of blades.
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heh i JUST noticed that Duran spelled backwards is Narud. Apologies if somebody else posted this before me.
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WoL's plot with its retconned zerg leaves me scratching my head. I seem to recall from somewhere that the zerg gained their original freedom as well as the majority of their cognitive power because they turned on the Xel'naga and consumed the entirety of their creator race. It was through that act that the zerg learned about the protoss in the first place.
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EPT
