On October 08 2010 04:09 sob3k wrote: Seriously, the final terran cutscene in that video:
3:56, is a fucking masterpiece. I have watched it seriously 40 times.
There is absolutely nothing remotely of that quality writing or voicewise in SC2, REMOTELY.
Seriously, if anyone can watch an SC2 cutscene and say it even somewhat compares with that level of epicness, sophistication, writing, and character development, they are a fucking moron.
Ahhh, the best cutscene of SC1 and BW. It's so epic.
Calling the corronation speech a character development is subject to what you think of Arcturus. If you think he was lying scum the whole time then that would make it a reveal, not a development. It would be a development if his discovery of the confederate use of the emitters simply pushed his rage to new heights. I think that both possibilites have merit, so yeah, I guess it can be a development if you want to think of like that.
As for SCII Tychus definitely had a major character arc. He was intentionally unsophisticated I suspect, but he was definitely in a bad situation after accepting what he undoubtedly thought was a win/win deal until he found out about Jim and Sarah.
I think Tychus could have been much more than they made him to be. Too bad the game is too passive in that regard you can't even confront him about having a deathtrap in his suit let alone try to persuade him. Also how many times did Tychus announce he wants to shoot kerrigan, only for raynor to act all surprised when he sees him aiming at her in the end.
On October 08 2010 19:01 SimpleReally wrote: I think Tychus could have been much more than they made him to be. Too bad the game is too passive in that regard you can't even confront him about having a deathtrap in his suit let alone try to persuade him. Also how many times did Tychus announce he wants to shoot kerrigan, only for raynor to act all surprised when he sees him at her in the end.
We may never know. All I know is that Jim survived three major wars, his potential GF, his optimism, and had his friend frozen for years for him. There ain't a therapist or counsellor alive with a big enough band-aid for such a crapsack life. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that Jim was just in denial, I've known people in real life who have had their common sense impared by less than what he's gone through.
I'd rather that Blizzard handled the Tychus issue better, but I'm satisfied enough with my own conjecture that it didn't ruin the campaign for me.
But putting all things together, SC BW has a few cut scenes that are just freaking awesome but they also have some bad ones. SC2 never really had a bad cut scene.
I would say the Arcturus speech is the best of all.
So, I would say SC BW had the two best cut scenes with Arcturus and the Kerrigan/DuGalle ending was top notch (the Tassadar from SC was good too) but SC2 had better consistent cut scenes. I just enjoy the Tychus/Raynor fight in the bar everytime I watch it.
There is an extremely well-written post in the Campaign section of the official forums that outlines pretty much everything wrong with SC2's plot.
I'm not saying BW is perfect, mind you. It's just that SC2's plot is simply terrible. If you enjoyed the plot at all, let me just say I am very concerned for you and hope you get better soon.
On October 11 2010 16:22 .Aar wrote: There is an extremely well-written post in the Campaign section of the official forums that outlines pretty much everything wrong with SC2's plot.
I'm not saying BW is perfect, mind you. It's just that SC2's plot is simply terrible. If you enjoyed the plot at all, let me just say I am very concerned for you and hope you get better soon.
How old are you?
Think I know the one you're talking about, and it;s mostly nit picking and presumption.
But hey, fanboys will be fanboys. Shouldn't expect them to not be full of shit. For example, half the time a popular game get's a score lower than 9,3 at Gametrailers, or the shitstorm that Dantes new look caused.
I ain't saying that Andrew is completely wrong, just that I either
A. Don't give a shit about his trivial problems, or B. realise that the thing with the overmind may or may not have been a good idea, (depends on where the expansions go with it) but that there are people who are simply anti-retcon, anti-change, anti-whatever-it-is-that-they-do-not-want, and are inconsolable that the overmind has more depth to it than an urge to eat some protoss.
I enjoyed the SCBW storyline better. If you think about it, WoL never really had a storyline, just a goal. For example in SC1 there were always twists and turns while in SC2 all we were told was that we had to get get money and research points to eventually invade Char, and so we simply grinded it out.
Basically SC2 is not really a storyline like SC1, but an adventure.
On October 11 2010 21:56 craz3d wrote: I enjoyed the SCBW storyline better. If you think about it, WoL never really had a storyline, just a goal. For example in SC1 there were always twists and turns while in SC2 all we were told was that we had to get get money and research points to eventually invade Char, and so we simply grinded it out.
Basically SC2 is not really a storyline like SC1, but an adventure.
SC2 tried to be an RPG without the elements of an RPG that make RPGs work.
Here's the difference: Every piece of plot in Starcraft and Brood War moved the story forward. Starcraft II was seemingly written so World of Starcraft can come grace us with its Skinner Boxxy appendages. Whether you thought either was compelling, Starcraft and the expansion had much, much tighter writing.
On October 12 2010 23:51 MichaelJLowell wrote: Here's the difference: Every piece of plot in Starcraft and Brood War moved the story forward. .
If this were true than why was the protoss campaign of BW such a train wreck? It wasn't even consistent with the established characters of SCI, unless you thought they were all naive idiots back then. And Kerrigan had one of the most forced and awkwardly written manipulations in gaming history. And the UED weren't even established characters and for some reason they're brought in just to be taken out. What about the new overmind? The whole point of the UED campaign was to defeat Arcturus and capture the overmind. That would be like controlling the fucking Tal'Darim the middle of the SCII minicampaign prelude, just so that we could take the artifacts for the second time as Jim .
If you can't find any problems with BW then you've clearly got your head up your ass and are incapable of sharing an objective opinion.
I said "tighter". "Tighter" as in "more relevant information was dispersed on a line-to-line basis". If you can't understand the definition of "tighter" then you've clearly got your head up your ass and are incapable of sharing an objective opinion.
On October 12 2010 23:51 MichaelJLowell wrote: Here's the difference: Every piece of plot in Starcraft and Brood War moved the story forward. .
If this were true than why was the protoss campaign of BW such a train wreck? It wasn't even consistent with the established characters of SCI, unless you thought they were all naive idiots back then. And Kerrigan had one of the most forced and awkwardly written manipulations in gaming history. And the UED weren't even established characters and for some reason they're brought in just to be taken out. What about the new overmind? The whole point of the UED campaign was to defeat Arcturus and capture the overmind. That would be like controlling the fucking Tal'Darim the middle of the SCII minicampaign prelude, just so that we could take the artifacts for the second time as Jim .
If you can't find any problems with BW then you've clearly got your head up your ass and are incapable of sharing an objective opinion.
well to be fair the UED does bring about the existence of an earth like planet and the faction can be brought up on multiple occasions should the writer intend to do so in similar fashion to the taldarim. Its not bad writing, its good writing. You might not like it but atleast it gives them a terran alternative to the dominion for a set of missions should they choose to do so.
Basically its stuff within the context of the universe, Alien artefacts, and prophecies and destroy everything living hybrid badguys feel ALOT worse writing and game wise than kerrigans mindcontrolling the dark templar matriarch.
Essentially in a nutshell the difference between the two games is that "Starcraft 1" is far more realistic (as a plot) then "Starcraft 2". Releasing convicts in space to colonize other planets rather then giving them all the death penalty sounds like a possibility. But there's even holes in this story too, I mean; where did the Terrans get that advanced technology? How did they know how to use Vespene as a form of gas? Where did the technology from cloaking come from? However, the plot about a confederate government being attacked by a terrorist group sounds like a possibility too. Then out of now where two alien species show up and start obliterating everything in their path, eh...It's a possibility but what took the protoss and zerg so long to show up while the Terrans were building their entire government? Starcraft 1 had some really bloody, dark, and gloomy scenes (The head explosion on the space ship, The hyralisk acid being spat through the marines face, The dragoon dismantling the general, and the zergling chopping through the Terran face on the brood war intro). Sure it was of mature content but it gave the game a "realistic feeling". Starcraft 2 is waaay to cartoony. There's hardly any blood in the cut scenes from the humans and when the blood from the hydralisk splashes on general warfields face it doesn't even stick or drip off lol But back to the storylines Starcraft 2 is more of a sci-fi action flick while Starcraft 1 was created from a more realistic approach. Look at the starcraft 1 unit concepts (The marine suit, firebat suit) That's a realistic version of a combat suit. Then take a look at the starcraft 2 marine and firebat suit, it's very unrealistic. The suits in SC1 were proportinate to the body of the marine while the SC2 suits are far bigger then the person inside. The choose your own path thing was really fucking stupid too. This isn't R.L. stines Goosebumps series where choose your own story by turning to such and such page and such and such chapter. This is a video game that should have one direct storyline so everybody could follow. It went from reality to fantasy. I'm not impressed from an authors prospective on the story or the plot. It seems like they're trying too hard. Another thing I found really stupid was the whole "Dark Voice" thing and how he overwrites the Zergs brain functions to destroy the protoss. That's so unbelievable and really stupid.
I went back and replayed SC after I finished the SC2 campaign and was wanting more. I have to say, I think my memories of it were better than the reality. Thoughts....
1. I had forgotten how much the plot meanders around. Especially in brood war there are sidequests and things which really only exist to have you experience all the race matchups. Not to mention the fact that the protoss campaign in bw doesn't really tie in to the zerg/terran campaigns at all.
2. There were some sublime moments, but there were plenty of dumb ones I forgot about. All that stuff about merging the "light" and "dark" energies of the protoss didn't age well and the whole Stukov/DuGalle betrayal was weird.
3. There wasn't much of it. I mean you had the 2/3 minutes of talking before each mission and any talking that happened during the mission and that was it.
On the other hands WOL has its problems. I liked having more story. I loved the point and click adventure feeling to the in-between missions portion because you got to talk to all of the characters all the time. But it suffers from not having a middle or and end and the whole artifact thing is a huge McGuffin.
BW is pretty straight forward imo, I don't see how you guys can say it was SO DEEP and IMMERSIVE. It's another simple alien vs alien vs human with a little civil war on the side.
On October 12 2010 23:51 MichaelJLowell wrote: Here's the difference: Every piece of plot in Starcraft and Brood War moved the story forward. .
If this were true than why was the protoss campaign of BW such a train wreck? It wasn't even consistent with the established characters of SCI, unless you thought they were all naive idiots back then. And Kerrigan had one of the most forced and awkwardly written manipulations in gaming history. And the UED weren't even established characters and for some reason they're brought in just to be taken out. What about the new overmind? The whole point of the UED campaign was to defeat Arcturus and capture the overmind. That would be like controlling the fucking Tal'Darim the middle of the SCII minicampaign prelude, just so that we could take the artifacts for the second time as Jim .
If you can't find any problems with BW then you've clearly got your head up your ass and are incapable of sharing an objective opinion.
well to be fair the UED does bring about the existence of an earth like planet and the faction can be brought up on multiple occasions should the writer intend to do so in similar fashion to the taldarim. Its not bad writing, its good writing. You might not like it but atleast it gives them a terran alternative to the dominion for a set of missions should they choose to do so.
Basically its stuff within the context of the universe, Alien artefacts, and prophecies and destroy everything living hybrid badguys feel ALOT worse writing and game wise than kerrigans mindcontrolling the dark templar matriarch.
A lot of things in BW had amazing potential. I generally like to think that nearly anything can make for a good story if the story telling is well done, and I find that BW didn't live up to its potential. The UED were a decent concept, but the executuion failed. They existed merely to push the plot along. Just like the Tal'darim of WoL, except without killing them all in the end.
And I;m well aware of WoLs failings, but they aren't anywhere near as understated as Broodwars.
EPT
