The problem is the handball rule in the EPL is 100% clear cut when it shouldn't be. Handballs in the box are most often accidental and when its ball to hand like it was in the City game there's no way that should be a foul. The stupid rule gave VAR no choice though. The stupidest thing is it only applies in the build up to a goal so the same handball wouldn't be given as a penalty if it was a defender - and they are trying to say it will lead to better consistency!

I would say for handballs let the referee's decision be final unless its 100% a clear intentional handball like Suarez scoring against a League 2 team, or Suarez saving a goal like a keeper in the world cup, in which case VAR overrule.

This rule as it is is going to lead to many unfair situations. What would be a handball against the attacking team wouldn't be a penalty. Its stupid.

Liquid`Drone

Norway28798 Posts

August 19 2019 19:29 GMT

#622

Really good tempo switch by united in that attack, and a very good finish by Martial. Seemed like the Wolves players took half a second to adjust to the increase in pace and that put them too far behind.

Pandemona

Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts

August 19 2019 19:30 GMT

#623

On August 20 2019 04:28 Jockmcplop wrote:
The problem is the handball rule in the EPL is 100% clear cut when it shouldn't be. Handballs in the box are most often accidental and when its ball to hand like it was in the City game there's no way that should be a foul. The stupid rule gave VAR no choice though. The stupidest thing is it only applies in the build up to a goal so the same handball wouldn't be given as a penalty if it was a defender - and they are trying to say it will lead to better consistency!

I would say for handballs let the referee's decision be final unless its 100% a clear intentional handball like Suarez scoring against a League 2 team, or Suarez saving a goal like a keeper in the world cup, in which case VAR overrule.

This rule as it is is going to lead to many unfair situations. What would be a handball against the attacking team wouldn't be a penalty. Its stupid.

The handball rule is summed up with the Wolves disallowed goal on the opening day. The new law says its 100% handball infringement when the ball hits an arm/hand and then ends up in the back of the net aka you get a clear advantage. However that exact same handball is NOT a penalty if the defender did the exact same thing lol. Which is a problems with the rules not VAR i agree.

sneirac

Germany3464 Posts

August 19 2019 19:30 GMT

#624

On August 20 2019 04:18 plasmidghost wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 20 2019 04:07 Rebs wrote:

On August 18 2019 23:08 sharkie wrote:

On August 18 2019 22:49 Pandemona wrote:
VAR in England has been used a couple of times in which it has caused more debate than it has fixed the decisions. I wouldn't be having this conversation otherwise would i lol. Season is only 2 matchdays old!

But lets see what happens throughout the rest of the season.

It's already fixed yesterday's match: the goal was ruled out correctly. That's already 2 correct decisions (the wolves one too) to your 1 bad one (the sterling). And I dont bother to look at the other matches. So even if thats all - thats already 100% more correct decisions than bad ones. And the season is only 2 matchdays old! Wow VAR really is the best

VAR mistakes spark debates, VAR corrections dont, if a goal is ruled out correctly no one will ever talk about it. Thats the only reason we talk about VAR. Because people like to whine about stuff.

Regard every topic humanity has ever talked about. The naysayers have always been louder than the supporters. We would still be working with stone tools if we hadnt progressed regardless of the negativity

I have to say, hes 100% correct Pande. All of your arguments are feel arguments. What he is saying is fact.

No system for officiating can be perfect. The purpose of using technology is to try to be as perfect as possible. Even if it is a 5 percent net gain in improved decisions (which its not, its significantly higher) then its worth it.

Regarding the debates. Thats natural. When you have all of the additional information that the technology brings, the number of variables that go into a decision keep increasing. And naturally many will not be clear cut, debatable, subjective etc etc. And thats more of a problem with rules and their interpretation than a system that simply provides you more information to make the best decision possible.

And even if that is indeed the case and you must make a controversial decision with as much information as possible rather than something based of the naked eye, particularly with the pace the game is played at now?

And to repeat what he said. It is indeed true that there is no debate around the clearcut overturns because they are clear cut. If your going to debate the controversial situations you have to acknowledge the wins.

What I would add is that if you dont do the above, its quite frankly a dishonest position to criticize the system from.

I agree with this. I was super disappointed with VAR when it ruled out the last Man City goal for a handball, but the discussions here made me realize that ultimately the rules themselves are not always clear-cut and that VAR has done more good than bad the few times it's been used in PL. I'm also interested in the complete stats of its use in CL last year

Not seeing CL stats but this is a league writeup from last year www.espn.com

also United looking ... effective, thats gonna take some getting used to

edit: also the reddit thing Pande linked uses the wrong frame rate afaik, the high def cams make it much closer to the blink of an eye

e2: found it

Ultra-Motion Cameras provided by Hawk-Eye work up to 340 fps. The VAR system uses 8 slow-motion and 4 ultra-motion cameras

With a 340 fps utra-motion camera, the "margin of error" using the Daily Mail's 23.4kph (which isn't sourced either lol) from one frame to another would be 1.91cm.

Liquid`Drone

Norway28798 Posts

August 19 2019 19:31 GMT

#625

I think the handball rule must be arbitrary. Kind of a weird thing to advocate for I guess, but I feel there are just so many different factors that influence whether they should be called or not. Like, you should still use VAR for them, but not have rules like 'if it touches the arm in an extended position it's a penalty', if it's unintentional and gives no benefit then imo it shouldn't be.

Deleted User 173346

16169 Posts

August 19 2019 19:32 GMT

#626

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Deleted User 173346

16169 Posts

August 19 2019 19:33 GMT

#627

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Deleted User 173346

16169 Posts

August 19 2019 20:12 GMT

#628

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Pandemona

Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts

August 19 2019 20:13 GMT

#629

Yeah that is goal of season so far (in premier league).,. holy shit beautiful.

Wow his arm was offside but not his shoulder so they gave it as a goal, damnnnn close XD

Faruko

Chile34173 Posts

August 19 2019 20:15 GMT

#630

wut? no offisde lmao?

Faruko

Chile34173 Posts

August 19 2019 20:16 GMT

#631

i'm a bit shocked that that was accepted as a goal tbh

Deleted User 173346

16169 Posts

August 19 2019 20:16 GMT

#632

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Liquid`Drone

Norway28798 Posts

August 19 2019 20:17 GMT

#633

that looked clearly onside when they were doing the var check.. Only body parts you can touch the ball with count as offside, so arms do not.

sneirac

Germany3464 Posts

August 19 2019 20:18 GMT

#634

he is behind the ball, at least US commentator was confused by that

Faruko

Chile34173 Posts

August 19 2019 20:25 GMT

#635

penalty, small, but there's contact there.

Deleted User 173346

16169 Posts

August 19 2019 20:25 GMT

#636

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sneirac

Germany3464 Posts

August 19 2019 20:26 GMT

#637

On August 20 2019 05:25 plasmidghost wrote:
Fuck I just missed the penalty and call, only saw the save. Was Rashford shooting it?

Pogba, he lost his magic since he ditched the idiot runup

Faruko

Chile34173 Posts

August 19 2019 20:26 GMT

#638

Pogba

which i think he wants to leave lol

Deleted User 173346

16169 Posts

August 19 2019 20:27 GMT

#639

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Liquid`Drone

Norway28798 Posts

August 19 2019 20:28 GMT

#640

let rashford take the penalties from now on xD

On second look that's a very solid save. it was very hard and further to the side than I thought. I mean a good penalty is always a goal, but it wasn't a crappy one.