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On March 07 2019 10:02 WillyWanker wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 09:47 Rebs wrote:On March 07 2019 09:00 WillyWanker wrote:On March 07 2019 08:46 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
If the Man United boardroom don't sign Ole Gunnar to contract then the fans should burn the stadium to the ground. What did he do exactly? His team played terrible today, and went through because Paris threw them 3 gifts. In the league, the team isn't exceptional, is it? He managed to get the players' heads back in the game, and is somewhat saving the season. But a team like MU can't be satisfied with that, and I hope for them that they'll not fall into the trap and give him a longer contract... yet. At least consider other options. There is no denying hes earned a contract. The merits of what hes done or not done isnt even a question given the results. Granted hes been fortunate at times. But you cant argue anything against him at this time. If that's what ManU is, and what fans want, fine with me. We're talking about the richest club in the world. I'm not saying Solskjaer is bad or anything (he hasn't even had time to build the team HE wants), but a club of that dimension shouldn't react to a victory like tonight's by signing him for years. They should have options.
But its not just luck . And come on. Everyone gets lucky. Reals won 3 Titles with teams literally backpassing them goals just like United got today, other times theyve played absolute trash and nicked wins. But no one holds it against them unless they just dislike them because at the end of the day. And they shouldnt. Just like they shouldnt here.
I think this United team is ass and is only good for freestyling on teams weaker than them because thats the only thing Ole has managed. I think against teams better than them that dont choke United will have the same problem.
But the bottom line is that he has shown results and that merits atleast getting 4odd years worth of a Contract. What else is he supposed to do ? Hes a known commodity now. Why risk anything else?
THe other part of if it is, none of the top teams look invincible this season at this stage anyway. So why wouldnt United keep believing especially when they just nicked a hugely improbably win while mostly playing like ass.
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You seem to omit the fact that MU is the richest club in the world, and their owners probably are looking to stay it. For that, you need titles. To get titles, you need to be good on the pitch 90% of the season, and against big teams. I'm not talking about playing tiki-taka or anything, I'm talking achieving good results most of the time.
As many trophies Zidane has won, on his last season he wanted to win la Liga and he probably left the team because he saw he couldn't go any further with those players. This is having high standards. They won 4 of the last 5 CL, and this season they win nothing; it should be alright for most teams, but not for Real. Fans are asking Solari to go right now, Perez to go, etc. This is having high standards. MU should fall in the same category as Real Madrid, but they haven't in a while.
They shouldn't behave like a smaller team and be happy when they have a lucky win streak, hoping that things will go their way. They should make things go their way, and the first step of achieving this is hiring a coach that knows where he's going. Ole said before the game that he HOPED to score a goal early and then "be alive in the last minutes, and see what happens". What kind of MU coach ambition is that? Even with a half broken squad, this isn't the image MU should project.
What he deserves after all those good results is to be in the discussion for staying the coach next season, not a guaranteed 3-4 years contract or something. For a club like MU, he should be a plan B.
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You've got to be kidding me, what else could he have said? United went into the game with half the senior squad depleted, against PSG at home with a 2 goal deficit. Obviously you don't go into the game with full confidence that you'll win. We definitely needed all the luck we could get.
And why shouldn't Ole get the contract? He's turned the club around in an unbelievably short period of time, revitalized the squad and most importantly brought the feel good factor back to Old Trafford again. Fans are genuinely excited to watch games which we haven't been in YEARS. Even in Mourinho's first year where he won some trophies the brand of football wasn't particularly exiciting.
Ole is by far the best thing that has happened to United since Fergie left, most fans would be more than willing to take the risk and give him a permanent job.
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First leg wasn't exactly glorious either, and it was still 0-0 against a Neymar/Cavani-less PSG. Never during the whole matchup you felt MU was in a position to score. They just parked the bus and hoped for some miracle to happen, which it did. But say the football logic is respected, PSG wins the game 3-0 yesterday. What do you say about the coach then? Because yesterday it was a 3-0 game, not a 1-3. So you can't be euphoric after a win like that, is what I'm trying to say.
I'm not a MU fan so I suppose I don't appreciate the situation the same. If you tell me that's how fans feel, it's great then. I still think the club should aspire to more. It wouldn't need years and years to get back to what it was before, there are some good players in the team already, and lots of money. A good coach with clear ideas, and some signings and it could be back to the top (of England, at least).
From my external point of view, and tell me if I'm wrong, the club has a managerial issue. Ole doesn't seem to be the kind of guy that could make big decisions for signings and playstyle. And since a 'revolution' would have to come either from the direction (not likely?) or a strong coach, it looks to me that this meh situation could last for a while. First losing streak and they'll be back to what they've been doing the past years.
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On March 07 2019 12:26 WillyWanker wrote:
First leg wasn't exactly glorious either, and it was still 0-0 against a Neymar/Cavani-less PSG. Never during the whole matchup you felt MU was in a position to score. They just parked the bus and hoped for some miracle to happen, which it did. But say the football logic is respected, PSG wins the game 3-0 yesterday. What do you say about the coach then? Because yesterday it was a 3-0 game, not a 1-3. So you can't be euphoric after a win like that, is what I'm trying to say.
I'm not a MU fan so I suppose I don't appreciate the situation the same. If you tell me that's how fans feel, it's great then. I still think the club should aspire to more. It wouldn't need years and years to get back to what it was before, there are some good players in the team already, and lots of money. A good coach with clear ideas, and some signings and it could be back to the top (of England, at least).
From my external point of view, and tell me if I'm wrong, the club has a managerial issue. Ole doesn't seem to be the kind of guy that could make big decisions for signings and playstyle. And since a 'revolution' would have to come either from the direction (not likely?) or a strong coach, it looks to me that this meh situation could last for a while. First losing streak and they'll be back to what they've been doing the past years.
what more do you want from ole? yes there is a bigger issue with the club in terms of the organisation but what ole has done given the circumstances is nothing short of a miracle.
his record at man utd in all competitions atm is 14-2-1. hes undefeated in the PL and if you looked at the table from the date he arrived in man utd, hes topping the league. 1 loss from 17 games, that loss coming from a side that is considerably more stacked than us and tactically got the better of us by completely nullifying pogba, id say solskjaer has done a brilliant job so far.
anyways i didnt get to catch the game and i got busy at work so completely forgot to check the score. it doesnt matter how we won because im 98% sure if i met ole in person id probably suck his dick
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How much of that can be put on him though? How much can be put on players finally doing their job? I mean, he didn't suddenly make Pogba increase his talent by 200%, it was always there. Players were fed up with Mou and played poorly. Now, they're "free" and they're playing better and beating teams they should have beaten before.
Again, not saying he's a bad coach and shouldn't be considered, but come on. Big club, ambitions, all that, make sure the one you're signing for the next years is actually worth it. Zidane did great in the same kind of situation, Di Matteo a little less.
Talking about something I know better, Martino at Barça was a terrible coach but he won most games (not many titles). Valverde won and will win many titles, but he's not a great coach for the club. These guys are more men leaders, and although they might get short-term success, they usually don't steer the club in the right direction long-term. They're good temporarily to make the situation better UNTIL you find someone more suitable.
Players can't run a club long. I still don't get how you guys aren't more angry at them given they basically were throwing your club in the shitters, only to get back to being professionals once Mou got fired. Messi and his friends are doing the exact same in Barcelona, having won and still winning much much more than MU, and it infuriates me.
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Ay maybe ole is not a tactical genius, but there's no denying that he has brought back the air of positivity and fun in United since post SAF. The supporters want him, the players like him. I think he should get the job full time. He's not the best manager but he is the right manager for now
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On March 07 2019 12:26 WillyWanker wrote:
First leg wasn't exactly glorious either, and it was still 0-0 against a Neymar/Cavani-less PSG. Never during the whole matchup you felt MU was in a position to score. They just parked the bus and hoped for some miracle to happen, which it did. But say the football logic is respected, PSG wins the game 3-0 yesterday. What do you say about the coach then? Because yesterday it was a 3-0 game, not a 1-3. So you can't be euphoric after a win like that, is what I'm trying to say.
I'm not a MU fan so I suppose I don't appreciate the situation the same. If you tell me that's how fans feel, it's great then. I still think the club should aspire to more. It wouldn't need years and years to get back to what it was before, there are some good players in the team already, and lots of money. A good coach with clear ideas, and some signings and it could be back to the top (of England, at least).
From my external point of view, and tell me if I'm wrong, the club has a managerial issue. Ole doesn't seem to be the kind of guy that could make big decisions for signings and playstyle. And since a 'revolution' would have to come either from the direction (not likely?) or a strong coach, it looks to me that this meh situation could last for a while. First losing streak and they'll be back to what they've been doing the past years.
Thing is most fans didn't expect to win this game anyway and were backing him to get the job even before this match.
Look at our past 3 high profile managerial signings and see how that turned out. I'd say it's a good time to take a risk and give Ole a chance. He might not be the most experienced but he knows the club inside out, from training staff, academy and most importantly the Man Utd culture.
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On March 07 2019 12:56 WillyWanker wrote:
How much of that can be put on him though? How much can be put on players finally doing their job? I mean, he didn't suddenly make Pogba increase his talent by 200%, it was always there. Players were fed up with Mou and played poorly. Now, they're "free" and they're playing better and beating teams they should have beaten before.
Again, not saying he's a bad coach and shouldn't be considered, but come on. Big club, ambitions, all that, make sure the one you're signing for the next years is actually worth it. Zidane did great in the same kind of situation, Di Matteo a little less.
Talking about something I know better, Martino at Barça was a terrible coach but he won most games (not many titles). Valverde won and will win many titles, but he's not a great coach for the club. These guys are more men leaders, and although they might get short-term success, they usually don't steer the club in the right direction long-term. They're good temporarily to make the situation better UNTIL you find someone more suitable.
Players can't run a club long. I still don't get how you guys aren't more angry at them given they basically were throwing your club in the shitters, only to get back to being professionals once Mou got fired. Messi and his friends are doing the exact same in Barcelona, having won and still winning much much more than MU, and it infuriates me.
who would you suggest we take if we dont give ole a full contract? the only option right now is pochettino and hes not even guaranteed to come nor does he have the managerial pedigree that other high profile managers have.
the last 3 managers did not come from a man utd background and obviously ran into issues with not just the organisation but coming to terms with the identity/philosophy of the club. at least ole is better suited to dealing with these issues than others. as for his leadership capabilities and his long term viability, well thats a risk a club takes with any manager. ole played under saf for years and even now hes spoken about how he still seeks saf for advice etc. surely he would have picked up a few things?
the ambition and size of the club dont really matter much when choices are so limited. ole has an incredible record at the club atm and he has a united background. if were gonna take risks with anyone might as well be with someone who were familiar with imo.
also i dunno about others but i was very critical of the players for the way they behaved with mou. i didnt want mou to leave when he did, although in hindsight it has turned out much better for the club overall. i think the players should have gotten their fair share of shit for doing a chelsea but again, in hindsight the end result has turned out great for the club.
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Allegri or Zidane? I'm just saying options should at least be considered, that giving Ole a contract right after a nice streak and a lucky qualification is dangerous for a club that has been making a lot of mistakes these past years.
Also I'm not sure coaching players nowadays is the same as when SAF was at the top. They have a lot of ego and are very "fragile", you need to be able to motivate them year after year. To do that, you need to be playing good football, or win titles very frequently. Something that the current team isn't experiencing at all. Next season they won't have the same "excuse" of having a bad start, and there'll be a lot more pressure. What Simeone has done for example is crazy, but I'm not sure many other managers can repeat that x)
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not sure about allegri as i dont see why he would want to leave juventus or why juventus would let him go.
zidane has popped up a lot but the biggest issue with him is that he doesnt speak any english. who knows if he would even be interested.
im sure the club has looked at a variety of options as you would expect from a club of this stature. its just the fans that have come to the conclusion that there arent any viable options atm and if thats the case why not go with someone we love and has been doing well so far anyway. no one is suggesting that ole gets the contract immediately, and no one is suggesting we give it to him simply because of this victory. the way his season has been going however, if it continues to the end, leaves no reason as to why he shouldnt be offered the job
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Juve is at the end of a cycle, he's been close to leaving the last couple of years. If they go out against Atletico (high chances), I think that's it. Zidane could take his place.
I would really love to see Simeone in a non-underdog team like MU. Apparently, he used to be a very offensive coach, Bielsa-like. Wtf happened in his head, I don't know but we got this Atletico xD
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On March 07 2019 14:55 WillyWanker wrote:
Juve is at the end of a cycle, he's been close to leaving the last couple of years. If they go out against Atletico (high chances), I think that's it. Zidane could take his place.
I would really love to see Simeone in a non-underdog team like MU. Apparently, he used to be a very offensive coach, Bielsa-like. Wtf happened in his head, I don't know but we got this Atletico xD
Simeone probably changed because he wanted to be successful with a smaller club? You cant win La Liga by trying to play Barca football :/
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Obviously. Still a very extreme change haha. He "only" won one Liga though, so I don't think his playstyle is really that good to win it. For the CL, it's another story.
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Lalalaland34501 Posts
On March 07 2019 09:11 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 09:00 WillyWanker wrote:On March 07 2019 08:46 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
If the Man United boardroom don't sign Ole Gunnar to contract then the fans should burn the stadium to the ground. What did he do exactly? His team played terrible today, and went through because Paris threw them 3 gifts. In the league, the team isn't exceptional, is it? He managed to get the players' heads back in the game, and is somewhat saving the season. But a team like MU can't be satisfied with that, and I hope for them that they'll not fall into the trap and give him a longer contract... yet. At least consider other options. They have gotten more points than any other team in the league since he took over, won 8 straight AWAY games, captured the seemingly impossible 4th spot... They are doing very, very well!
Nine*
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
Juventus is going to be the next one to get eliminated. Athletico ftw.
Manchester will rather have no problems with Shalke at all ;-)
Imma bet some $$ for Ajax/Athletico as UCL winners, odds are pretty darn good.
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One funny thing about the ManU victory is that "Team with possession makes more mistakes" is one of the core ideas of Mourinho football.
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That Greenwood kid has to go to school tomorrow, he is only 17
Cool story for your friends tbh
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Barcelona played like ass vs RM in both matches and i don't see Willy being mad tbh, because it's Barcelona and not other team 🤔
Sure, that's how Football works tbh, it's fully subjective, but at least give it to United & Solksjaer; 0-2, going to Paris vs PSG (which many thinks is, besides Juventus, a probable winning ucl team), with like half the squad out, relying on mostly young kids from your academy (which is 👌🏻) and suddenly United fans should ask Solksjaer head even if he has won like 15 games, losing only 1 (which if we count as 180 they didn't lose) because they played like ass vs PSG IN PARIS!?!?!?
Come on dude, give it him some time and an actual transfer window, this United team (player by player) was pretty mediocre overall and he made the best out of a terrible situation, and what a best it has been.
He doesn't even has 3 months! I mean most jobs take this time to decide if you should stay or not
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I think I've been clear about how I feel about Valverde and this year's Barça, and I even mentioned them earlier in this discussion.
I didn't see the 2 clasicos but I'm aware Barça didn't deserve much. They out Madrided Madrid. Feels good haha. But the future of the club is worrying. They could very well f up next week, I wouldn't be surprised.
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EPT
