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Your careers overlapped some, but how would a young Kobe Bryant react if a retired Michael Jordan was doing an in-depth breakdown of your game? Would you watch it?
No, I would ignore everything Michael Jordan has to say. (laughing) Of course I would watch it. I think simple-minded people tend to give simple-minded answers. The Detail Curse thing about getting into players’ heads too much is about simple-minded people who don’t understand what film study is. When you’re a player you watch film to find advantages, so you look for little areas in which you can take advantage of teams. Some of these fans that say that stuff are just idiots. From a broader scale, it’s not just about looking at that next matchup. We don’t talk about how to win the game, that would be a three-hour “Detail” in order to break the game apart. We’re just looking at a small window of a few plays that a player could take advantage to help himself. You played on some absolutely stacked teams, but there were a few years where you were at the top of your game but were surrounded by players who couldn’t keep up. Is that what you’re seeing with LeBron now? Is this roster a workable solution for him in an era of superteams?
It seems like he has some good talent to me. He’s got (Kyle) Korver who’s a great shooter, J.R. Smith who has always been a solid player — we focus on his one mistake and that tends to overshadow all the things he’s done to help them win a championship before — you’ve got Kevin Love, who was an All-Star and an Olympian; Rodney Hood, who was a 17-point scorer in the Western Conference; you’ve got Tristan (Thompson) who is back to playing like he played a few years ago. He’s got some workable pieces there. I don’t understand how, in order to talk about how great LeBron is we need to [expletive] on everybody else. That’s not O.K. Those guys have talent. I don’t buy this whole thing that he’s playing with a bunch of garbage. There seems to be an almost constant need to debate the greatest player of all-time and you weighed in on that concept on Twitter with a very inclusive message. Do you think the toxicity of the debates would be less if people made an attempt to enjoy all of the all-time greats?
It’s not really about enjoying them all. To me, it’s why would you waste your time debating something that you can’t definitively win? As a competitor I just don’t understand that. You can just yell back and forth at each other, you’re gonna spit stats, you’re gonna spit things that are important to you, but at the end of that debate, who won?
NYTimes
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Colangelo's Resignation
Dwane Casey was falsely implicated in a recruitment scandal. He ended up being exonerated and won a lawsuit. No one cared about the facts. Casey was blackballed. He ended up coaching men's and women's basketball in Japan. Casey turned his career around.
Colangelo needs to go away. Do a great job somewhere outside NA and then come back to the NBA and get hired by any one whose name is not Jerry Colangelo.
On June 08 2018 02:37 andrewlt wrote:
Pace is part of the problem. GSW plays a fast paced game.
yep, that's a good point.
On June 08 2018 02:29 andrewlt wrote:
He(Durant) is good but he's not Lebron level good.
yep, i agree.
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Interesting coincidence that I saw (think it was from ESPN). When Ray Allen set the record for 8 threes in a single finals game, he went 0-8 in the next game. When Steph set the record for 9 threes, he started 0-9 the next game before making his last one.
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Ok, we need to figure out some way to compare the strengths of the supporting casts of various teams. Like I said, I think there's a lot of contradictory views being held. I listened to the BBall breakdown postgame podcast and they made like 3-4 contradictions in a few minutes. The Dafour(?) guy essentially criticized their coaching in one breath and then praised Lue for "playing chess" the next. He said that he had to keep looking at the talent level of the two teams but then said that the Cavs "have been in it for 11/12 quarters". Which is it?
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On June 08 2018 00:26 ZenithM wrote:
To have some hope to win a championship in the coming years, I think Lebron has to be paired up with a good coaching staff with a vision, and to willingly buy into that plan and execute. Lebron has become too independent for his own good. He has really high BBIQ, but there must be things you can't see when you are playing yourself, and decisions you can't easily take when you're not the coach in name. Also he looks completely not accountable for anything bad that happens within the team. He seems only judged by the media and fans. I really doubt anybody among the Cavs organization is stepping up to him like "Bron, would you play some D please?". I would be really curious to see how this old-ish Lebron can be wielded by a good coach.
Will he be willing to give up his independence on the court and some of his impressive stats, in exchange for a higher winning chance?
This is, IMO the correct path, but IDK if Lebron sees that (I often question the people he picks to put around him). This is very similar to him demanding to play 48 Minutes a game in these playoffs. It is definitely not the best way to win. Its just a good way for him to stuff the statsheet. The Cavs are playing 4v5 on defense basically from the tipoff. Come on man, play 40 minutes and give us something on that end.
One reason I don't like Lebron has nothing to do with Lebron, rather its about the media sycophants that praise him no matter what happens. He is at the point of his career where he should have learned that stuffing the statsheet != winning. That is what Jordan learned, he scored less in his last 3 finals. He played more within the Triangle (which is an offense that suppresses the assist numbers of your ball handlers, kind of like the Warriors offense), and focused more on making decisive plays. Notably, for instance, in G6 vs. Utah, the Bulls were physically inferior because of Rodman's partying and Pippen's back problems, so they slowed down the pace. Both teams had Otrg's over 110, but the final score was 87-86.
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On June 08 2018 04:42 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2018 00:26 ZenithM wrote:
To have some hope to win a championship in the coming years, I think Lebron has to be paired up with a good coaching staff with a vision, and to willingly buy into that plan and execute. Lebron has become too independent for his own good. He has really high BBIQ, but there must be things you can't see when you are playing yourself, and decisions you can't easily take when you're not the coach in name. Also he looks completely not accountable for anything bad that happens within the team. He seems only judged by the media and fans. I really doubt anybody among the Cavs organization is stepping up to him like "Bron, would you play some D please?". I would be really curious to see how this old-ish Lebron can be wielded by a good coach.
Will he be willing to give up his independence on the court and some of his impressive stats, in exchange for a higher winning chance? This is, IMO the correct path, but IDK if Lebron sees that (I often question the people he picks to put around him). This is very similar to him demanding to play 48 Minutes a game in these playoffs. It is definitely not the best way to win. Its just a good way for him to stuff the statsheet. The Cavs are playing 4v5 on defense basically from the tipoff. Come on man, play 40 minutes and give us something on that end. One reason I don't like Lebron has nothing to do with Lebron, rather its about the media sycophants that praise him no matter what happens. He is at the point of his career where he should have learned that stuffing the statsheet != winning. That is what Jordan learned, he scored less in his last 3 finals. He played more within the Triangle (which is an offense that suppresses the assist numbers of your ball handlers, kind of like the Warriors offense), and focused more on making decisive plays. Notably, for instance, in G6 vs. Utah, the Bulls were physically inferior because of Rodman's partying and Pippen's back problems, so they slowed down the pace. Both teams had Otrg's over 110, but the final score was 87-86.
The way I see it his only 2 options going into this finals were 1) stuff the statsheet and lose or 2) don't stuff the statsheet and still lose. Might as well got for option 1
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https://streamable.com/s9rel
Goddamn that's the first time I see him acknowledging any kind of talent disparity in any series. Really feels like he's given up after Game 1 and he's just filling the stat sheet to not lose face.
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I think Lebron's playstyle greatly affects another superstars performance, for better or worse.
Let's do another switch player hypothetical: imagine Love, Korver, and even TT in the Warriors. Or even in any system teams like Spurs, Celtics, Indiana, Mavs, and I think they'd flourish.
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On June 08 2018 05:12 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2018 04:42 cLutZ wrote:On June 08 2018 00:26 ZenithM wrote:
To have some hope to win a championship in the coming years, I think Lebron has to be paired up with a good coaching staff with a vision, and to willingly buy into that plan and execute. Lebron has become too independent for his own good. He has really high BBIQ, but there must be things you can't see when you are playing yourself, and decisions you can't easily take when you're not the coach in name. Also he looks completely not accountable for anything bad that happens within the team. He seems only judged by the media and fans. I really doubt anybody among the Cavs organization is stepping up to him like "Bron, would you play some D please?". I would be really curious to see how this old-ish Lebron can be wielded by a good coach.
Will he be willing to give up his independence on the court and some of his impressive stats, in exchange for a higher winning chance? This is, IMO the correct path, but IDK if Lebron sees that (I often question the people he picks to put around him). This is very similar to him demanding to play 48 Minutes a game in these playoffs. It is definitely not the best way to win. Its just a good way for him to stuff the statsheet. The Cavs are playing 4v5 on defense basically from the tipoff. Come on man, play 40 minutes and give us something on that end. One reason I don't like Lebron has nothing to do with Lebron, rather its about the media sycophants that praise him no matter what happens. He is at the point of his career where he should have learned that stuffing the statsheet != winning. That is what Jordan learned, he scored less in his last 3 finals. He played more within the Triangle (which is an offense that suppresses the assist numbers of your ball handlers, kind of like the Warriors offense), and focused more on making decisive plays. Notably, for instance, in G6 vs. Utah, the Bulls were physically inferior because of Rodman's partying and Pippen's back problems, so they slowed down the pace. Both teams had Otrg's over 110, but the final score was 87-86. The way I see it his only 2 options going into this finals were 1) stuff the statsheet and lose or 2) don't stuff the statsheet and still lose. Might as well got for option 1
Good point. But I think learned early on what to do to push his legacy. He is one of the most self-conscious individuals when it comes to legacy/brand, and he knew he had the skills to get the numbers. I think it was during the 2014 loss to SAS when he realized winning 6 is close to impossible and this is when he started to find other ways to "greatness" in addition to getting titles. He forced himself to be the main ball handler and passing where he can maximize his numbers (which he can't do under Spo and Riley, and credit to him, he has become good at over his second stint with the Cavs) helped by the media narrative. In effect, he is kinda reverse MJ and Kobe. They had a goal to win and kill the competition first and the numbers came as a result of that. Lebron checks the boxes and hopes that good numbers will lead to wins. And in most cases it does. But this comes at the cost of Lebron not even learning to play under a coach or a system. I don't know if this is controversial, but Lebron would never play well under Pop or Carlisle unless he accepts being a post player of some sort.
Lebron is in an interesting intersection in his career now with so many narratives in play that this offseason will be the goatest, even goater than last years!
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LOL Look at KD. Owning Lebron and smashing the finals, and this is what he does
https://streamable.com/xq24i
context: Perkins was on his way out of the arena and peeked at the podium and greeted KD with a double middle finger salute. KD responds with a silent "Fuck You" and "Bitch Ass". WHILE STILL ON LIVE INTERVIEW!!! Damn KD is a child, an insecure one!
There was another one on his way to the hotel. Grow up KD.
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KD shouldn't treat 70 year old guys like that.
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On June 08 2018 08:43 Twinkle Toes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2018 05:12 BlackJack wrote:On June 08 2018 04:42 cLutZ wrote:On June 08 2018 00:26 ZenithM wrote:
To have some hope to win a championship in the coming years, I think Lebron has to be paired up with a good coaching staff with a vision, and to willingly buy into that plan and execute. Lebron has become too independent for his own good. He has really high BBIQ, but there must be things you can't see when you are playing yourself, and decisions you can't easily take when you're not the coach in name. Also he looks completely not accountable for anything bad that happens within the team. He seems only judged by the media and fans. I really doubt anybody among the Cavs organization is stepping up to him like "Bron, would you play some D please?". I would be really curious to see how this old-ish Lebron can be wielded by a good coach.
Will he be willing to give up his independence on the court and some of his impressive stats, in exchange for a higher winning chance? This is, IMO the correct path, but IDK if Lebron sees that (I often question the people he picks to put around him). This is very similar to him demanding to play 48 Minutes a game in these playoffs. It is definitely not the best way to win. Its just a good way for him to stuff the statsheet. The Cavs are playing 4v5 on defense basically from the tipoff. Come on man, play 40 minutes and give us something on that end. One reason I don't like Lebron has nothing to do with Lebron, rather its about the media sycophants that praise him no matter what happens. He is at the point of his career where he should have learned that stuffing the statsheet != winning. That is what Jordan learned, he scored less in his last 3 finals. He played more within the Triangle (which is an offense that suppresses the assist numbers of your ball handlers, kind of like the Warriors offense), and focused more on making decisive plays. Notably, for instance, in G6 vs. Utah, the Bulls were physically inferior because of Rodman's partying and Pippen's back problems, so they slowed down the pace. Both teams had Otrg's over 110, but the final score was 87-86. The way I see it his only 2 options going into this finals were 1) stuff the statsheet and lose or 2) don't stuff the statsheet and still lose. Might as well got for option 1 Good point. But I think learned early on what to do to push his legacy. He is one of the most self-conscious individuals when it comes to legacy/brand, and he knew he had the skills to get the numbers. I think it was during the 2014 loss to SAS when he realized winning 6 is close to impossible and this is when he started to find other ways to "greatness" in addition to getting titles. He forced himself to be the main ball handler and passing where he can maximize his numbers (which he can't do under Spo and Riley, and credit to him, he has become good at over his second stint with the Cavs) helped by the media narrative. In effect, he is kinda reverse MJ and Kobe. They had a goal to win and kill the competition first and the numbers came as a result of that. Lebron checks the boxes and hopes that good numbers will lead to wins. And in most cases it does. But this comes at the cost of Lebron not even learning to play under a coach or a system. I don't know if this is controversial, but Lebron would never play well under Pop or Carlisle unless he accepts being a post player of some sort. Lebron is in an interesting intersection in his career now with so many narratives in play that this offseason will be the goatest, even goater than last years!
He's pretty much had the exact same 27/7/7 numbers since his sophomore year. While he has always been about stuffing the statsheet, the theory that he decided one day that this was the only way for him to catch MJ has little evidence. His next 2 seasons after his loss to SAS in 2014 he went 25/6/7 and 25/7/7 which are worse than his career averages. Only in the last 2 seasons do we see his numbers rise a little bit and that has more to do with the whole triple-double trend and MVP races than anything.
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On June 08 2018 09:13 Twinkle Toes wrote:LOL Look at KD. Owning Lebron and smashing the finals, and this is what he does https://streamable.com/xq24icontext: Perkins was on his way out of the arena and peeked at the podium and greeted KD with a double middle finger salute. KD responds with a silent "Fuck You" and "Bitch Ass". WHILE STILL ON LIVE INTERVIEW!!! Damn KD is a child, an insecure one! There was another one on his way to the hotel. Grow up KD.
lebron wouldve done nothing cause hes too image conscious. i have 0 issues with it cause its perkins, who is a bitch ass.
On June 08 2018 08:43 Twinkle Toes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2018 05:12 BlackJack wrote:On June 08 2018 04:42 cLutZ wrote:On June 08 2018 00:26 ZenithM wrote:
To have some hope to win a championship in the coming years, I think Lebron has to be paired up with a good coaching staff with a vision, and to willingly buy into that plan and execute. Lebron has become too independent for his own good. He has really high BBIQ, but there must be things you can't see when you are playing yourself, and decisions you can't easily take when you're not the coach in name. Also he looks completely not accountable for anything bad that happens within the team. He seems only judged by the media and fans. I really doubt anybody among the Cavs organization is stepping up to him like "Bron, would you play some D please?". I would be really curious to see how this old-ish Lebron can be wielded by a good coach.
Will he be willing to give up his independence on the court and some of his impressive stats, in exchange for a higher winning chance? This is, IMO the correct path, but IDK if Lebron sees that (I often question the people he picks to put around him). This is very similar to him demanding to play 48 Minutes a game in these playoffs. It is definitely not the best way to win. Its just a good way for him to stuff the statsheet. The Cavs are playing 4v5 on defense basically from the tipoff. Come on man, play 40 minutes and give us something on that end. One reason I don't like Lebron has nothing to do with Lebron, rather its about the media sycophants that praise him no matter what happens. He is at the point of his career where he should have learned that stuffing the statsheet != winning. That is what Jordan learned, he scored less in his last 3 finals. He played more within the Triangle (which is an offense that suppresses the assist numbers of your ball handlers, kind of like the Warriors offense), and focused more on making decisive plays. Notably, for instance, in G6 vs. Utah, the Bulls were physically inferior because of Rodman's partying and Pippen's back problems, so they slowed down the pace. Both teams had Otrg's over 110, but the final score was 87-86. The way I see it his only 2 options going into this finals were 1) stuff the statsheet and lose or 2) don't stuff the statsheet and still lose. Might as well got for option 1 Good point. But I think learned early on what to do to push his legacy. He is one of the most self-conscious individuals when it comes to legacy/brand, and he knew he had the skills to get the numbers. I think it was during the 2014 loss to SAS when he realized winning 6 is close to impossible and this is when he started to find other ways to "greatness" in addition to getting titles. He forced himself to be the main ball handler and passing where he can maximize his numbers (which he can't do under Spo and Riley, and credit to him, he has become good at over his second stint with the Cavs) helped by the media narrative. In effect, he is kinda reverse MJ and Kobe. They had a goal to win and kill the competition first and the numbers came as a result of that. Lebron checks the boxes and hopes that good numbers will lead to wins. And in most cases it does. But this comes at the cost of Lebron not even learning to play under a coach or a system. I don't know if this is controversial, but Lebron would never play well under Pop or Carlisle unless he accepts being a post player of some sort. Lebron is in an interesting intersection in his career now with so many narratives in play that this offseason will be the goatest, even goater than last years!
lebron doesnt learn to play with anybody. everybody has to learn how to play with lebron.
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On June 08 2018 11:11 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2018 09:13 Twinkle Toes wrote:LOL Look at KD. Owning Lebron and smashing the finals, and this is what he does https://streamable.com/xq24icontext: Perkins was on his way out of the arena and peeked at the podium and greeted KD with a double middle finger salute. KD responds with a silent "Fuck You" and "Bitch Ass". WHILE STILL ON LIVE INTERVIEW!!! Damn KD is a child, an insecure one! There was another one on his way to the hotel. Grow up KD. lebron wouldve done nothing cause hes too image conscious. i have 0 issues with it cause its perkins, who is a bitch ass.
I don't know if you've read the post on Lebron choosing teammates on the other page, but there was a part that Lebron hired Perkins because he strokes Lebron's ego, LITERALLY whispering to him during pregames that he is the best ever and that he should ignore the haters. That's some weird creepy shit.
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Friendly reminder that Twinkle Toes is a "fan" of Lebron here ;D.
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On June 08 2018 11:11 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2018 09:13 Twinkle Toes wrote:LOL Look at KD. Owning Lebron and smashing the finals, and this is what he does https://streamable.com/xq24icontext: Perkins was on his way out of the arena and peeked at the podium and greeted KD with a double middle finger salute. KD responds with a silent "Fuck You" and "Bitch Ass". WHILE STILL ON LIVE INTERVIEW!!! Damn KD is a child, an insecure one! There was another one on his way to the hotel. Grow up KD. lebron wouldve done nothing cause hes too image conscience. i have 0 issues with it cause its perkins, who is a bitch ass.
Lebron probably just laughs it off/ignores it during a live interview cause he's a functioning adult. A bum who's lucky to be there doing something childish, who gives a shit? But apparently KD does. He just had a historic finals game but gets triggered by some idiot giving him the finger. I'm perpetually surprised that a man-child with skin this thin can be so cold-blooded on the court. I guess his constant anger with random haters fuels him and his 8:30 am regimen.
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On June 08 2018 11:39 ZenithM wrote:
Friendly reminder that Twinkle Toes is a "fan" of Lebron here ;D.
Lol why take a cheap shot Z, that's so out of nowhere?
Anyway, I get what you are saying and let's discuss it calmly. I think the confusion is that people think being a fan means raving about a person all the time and not seeing their negatives. Lebron does good things, Lebron does bad things. Kobe does good things, Kobe does bad things. The sun rises, the sun sets. All are facts and part of being a fan. It's not as if I'm saying wild things here slandering Lebron. I mention the good just as I mention the bad.
Would this be an accurate statement of your criticism of my being a Lebron fan: "Twinkle Toes criticizes Lebron's flaws, so he is not a Lebron fan"? If so, we are in agreement, except on when being a "Lebron fan" means, and that's ok.
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On June 08 2018 11:44 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2018 11:11 zev318 wrote:On June 08 2018 09:13 Twinkle Toes wrote:LOL Look at KD. Owning Lebron and smashing the finals, and this is what he does https://streamable.com/xq24icontext: Perkins was on his way out of the arena and peeked at the podium and greeted KD with a double middle finger salute. KD responds with a silent "Fuck You" and "Bitch Ass". WHILE STILL ON LIVE INTERVIEW!!! Damn KD is a child, an insecure one! There was another one on his way to the hotel. Grow up KD. lebron wouldve done nothing cause hes too image conscience. i have 0 issues with it cause its perkins, who is a bitch ass. Lebron probably just laughs it off/ignores it during a live interview cause he's a functioning adult. A bum who's lucky to be there doing something childish, who gives a shit? But apparently KD does. He just had a historic finals game but gets triggered by some idiot giving him the finger. I'm perpetually surprised that a man-child with skin this thin can be so cold-blooded on the court. I guess his constant anger with random haters fuels him and his 8:30 am regimen.
And worse, he does it LIVE, with the cameras and reporters to his face fully conscious that it is being broadcast worldwide.
It's as if KD either doesn't care about his reputation or is socially mal-adjusted.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/06/07/sports/07kobeweb2/merlin_139137657_c00168b3-8c4f-432e-a1ed-96c5981e7261-jumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp)
