EPT2017 - 2018 Football Thread - Page 103
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28675 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
On October 19 2017 20:40 Liquid`Drone wrote: If you look at the 5 year period prior to this 5 year period, then arsenal was #6 out of all clubs. Granted that Chelsea and United were both better then, but certainly that's solid. That's the thing though, Arsenal has been extremely solid. Extremely consistent. If every English CL team had an Arsenal performance every season, then England would never have been worse than #2 on the country ranking. It's fine if Arsenal fans blame Wenger for Arsenal not winning any title of importance for 15 years or whatever it is now. But it's woefully incorrect for other English fans to blame Arsenal for England's loss of relative power in the country coefficient ratings, as Arsenal has consistently been better than average for the past decade. Since 2007-2008, there has not been a single 5 year period (so basically, that means since 2002 and onward) where Arsenal was worse than top 10 in Europe. That holds true for two other European teams - Bayern and Barcelona. Even Real Madrid was in 13th at one point. Im not on about coeffecient ranking though xD im on about points per game ala 3points for win in the group table. 45 points on table for English teams and we have made 37/45 so far which is outstanding with 0 defeats. With Spurs playing Real Madrid and Dortmund. Chelsea playing Atletico Madrid and Man City playing Serie A topping Napoli. Again going further in the competition wields more points, which Arsenal do not they consistently crashed out in RO16. Arsenal of course did well to get in champions league all the time and get through the group all the time, but it was never ever easy, from qualifying through just sneaking 4th place in England or getting a lucky result outside of their own games to go through in second. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28675 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18017 Posts
On October 19 2017 22:39 Pandemona wrote: Im not on about coeffecient ranking though xD im on about points per game ala 3points for win in the group table. 45 points on table for English teams and we have made 37/45 so far which is outstanding with 0 defeats. With Spurs playing Real Madrid and Dortmund. Chelsea playing Atletico Madrid and Man City playing Serie A topping Napoli. Again going further in the competition wields more points, which Arsenal do not they consistently crashed out in RO16. Arsenal of course did well to get in champions league all the time and get through the group all the time, but it was never ever easy, from qualifying through just sneaking 4th place in England or getting a lucky result outside of their own games to go through in second. Individual club ranking is calculated based on very similar methods to the country ranking (which is basically an aggregate score of the individual club ranking). It thus stands to reason that a club that is above average in the club ranking for its country is "pulling its weight". Of course, you're doing great this year without Arsenal. No question I'm sure your success in the CL will hype Engerland up to unknown hights (yet again) for the World Cup, where you will hilariously fail... yet again. With the Netherlands not competing I don't have anybody to really cheer for (Brazil, I guess), but at least I can still laugh at Engerland flailing around, as always  | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
On October 19 2017 22:57 Acrofales wrote: Individual club ranking is calculated based on very similar methods to the country ranking (which is basically an aggregate score of the individual club ranking). It thus stands to reason that a club that is above average in the club ranking for its country is "pulling its weight". Of course, you're doing great this year without Arsenal. No question I am not on about coeffecient i am using the points on offer 45 (points for group table rankings) on offer would not be 37/45 and undefeated if Arsenal were in the champions league. All Arsenal do is fuck up an easy group aka lose 3 times in a group with Ludogrets and Olympiacos or something and somehow qualify with 9points where Chelsea finished 3rd one year with 11! That was my point, it was a jibe at Arsenal for being able to fuck things up. All they then did was scrape through said group and crash out RO16 where as other teams can go further. Arsenal not been the best performing team in Europe from England since they reached the final in 2008? Or whenever it was. The coeffecient ranking shows they are conistantly the best point scorers but not go the furthest. 2017 - Leicester 2016 - Man City 2015 - Chelsea (most points) 2014 - Chelsea 2013 - Yanited/Chelsea (most points) 2012 - Chelsea etcetc | ||
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sneirac
Germany3464 Posts
Meanwhile last year Arsenal after 3 games only had 7 points so they clearly would have ruined this average this year, you are absolutely correct and Drone is clearly wrong. Also other PL teams last year after 3 games. City 4 Lesta 9 Spurs 4 | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On October 19 2017 23:09 sneirac wrote: Yes this year PL teams have 37/45 points, or on average 7.4 points per team after 3 games. Meanwhile last year Arsenal after 3 games only had 7 points so they clearly would have ruined this average this year, you are absolutely correct and Drone is clearly wrong. Also other PL teams last year after 3 games. City 4 Lesta 9 Spurs 4 Im trying to understand the analysis or whatever that is above you, I really am making a genuine effort. My head is spinning trying to make sense of itt once I realised he wasnt just jesting.. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
That was the jibe, then it got to a discussion about coeffecient rankings and points to which at this present moment the glorious Arsenal RO16 football club is top of in English readings. Yet as proven they don't go the furthest in the competition and are not the best English side in it....since they lost in the final in 2008 or whatever it was. But anyway my jibe and prod obviously stirred some irritance to some closet Arsenal fans | ||
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sneirac
Germany3464 Posts
On October 19 2017 23:18 Rebs wrote: Im trying to understand the analysis or whatever that is above you, I really am making a genuine effort. My head is spinning trying to make sense... It's really simple, Pande hates Arsenal and made a stupid argument. Drone caught it and called him out, now he is trying to find a way to not be wrong and maintain that Arsenal sucks while making himself look like an idiot in the process. Considering the times we live in we can probably say he is pulling a Trump and is likely very proud of it | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28675 Posts
Last year they won the group with 14 points. 2014-15 they got 13. 2013-14 they got 12. 12-13 they got 10. before that 11, 12, 13, 11, 13. So sure, it's a little below the average of 7.4 you have so far this season, but they've literally never really embarrassed themselves in the group stage, something which holds true for two english teams; Arsenal and Leicester. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
They needed the outside results multiple times in those groups. The one year their future wasn't even in their own hands. And like i said that year of the 3W 3L it took them to go on a 2 game win in the last two games which means they were 1W and 3L after 4! Which is why i said they would not contribute to the 37/45 point mark due to being beaten and not picking up points. Thus; Thanks to Arsenal we are undefeated and are 37/45 points so far Now you get the joke? xD | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28675 Posts
I was willing to drop this 5 posts ago tbh, but I like football statistics. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
And like i said they eventually qualify they never start well and it's always oh wow moment. 2014-15 - L W W D W W 2015-16 - L L W L W W (this is the year i was on about when it wasn't in their own hands) 2016-17 - D W W W D W (3-2 late win over Ludogrets here too! 2-0 down after 15 minutes! Scored 88th min winner) And i don't wanna go any further back but the point is Arsenal are slow starters, they struggle in the group then somehow come out of it smelling like roses. To die in the RO16 that was my point at the job xD So my 37/45 points on all these occasions are Arsenal losing to make the undefeated and great start from English sides....not exist. Also one final little jab, last season was Arsenal's best in the champions league in years and they still went out in the RO16 AND they had their worst ever league finish in decades. So the last year group was the biggest anomaly ever | ||
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nayumi
Australia6499 Posts
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
Before they started awarding a Champions League place for winning the Europa League it wasn't taken seriously by anyone in England and probably anyone anywhere really. But with Koln and Herta bottom of their groups and Hoffenheim hardly flying does this reflect those teams form or just a lack of interest in the Europa League from Bundersliga managers? Do they play full strength teams? | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
On October 20 2017 15:30 Greg_J wrote: Everton are proper nose dive right now. I don’t see Ronald Koeman turning things around anytime soon. Before they started awarding a Champions League place for winning the Europa League it wasn't taken seriously by anyone in England and probably anyone anywhere really. But with Koln and Herta bottom of their groups and Hoffenheim hardly flying does this reflect those teams form or just a lack of interest in the Europa League from Bundersliga managers? Do they play full strength teams? Köln has so far 1 victory this season, in the cup round1 vs a div3 team. Thats it. With the loss of Modeste who scored about half their goals last season and general issues in the team they are completely trash tier. Hertha is playing full, but some games they sucked, some they played well and still lost. Certainly their lack of experience is showing. But with the usual 2nd tier of teams in Germany (like Leverkusen, Schalke, Wolfsburg) failing hard last season we have those rookies and fails in the EL. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
On October 20 2017 15:30 Greg_J wrote: Everton are proper nose dive right now. I don’t see Ronald Koeman turning things around anytime soon. Before they started awarding a Champions League place for winning the Europa League it wasn't taken seriously by anyone in England and probably anyone anywhere really. But with Koln and Herta bottom of their groups and Hoffenheim hardly flying does this reflect those teams form or just a lack of interest in the Europa League from Bundersliga managers? Do they play full strength teams? Everton a disgrace right now yeah, comes from the clueless manager getting money and pretty much wasting it. Pickford - best signing Keane - looks very lost in the squad Klassen - wants to play 10 Sigurrdson - wants to play 10 Rooney - wants to play 10 Spanish striker - awful That's all they managed to bring in basically and there best players are Pickford, Calvert-Lewin who is like 19 and was bought in January for tiny fee from League 1. I mean why would you buy 3 of the same type of players it doesn't make sense. It be like signing Messi Neymar and Hazard and thinking that they can all play in the same team effectively. Think they need to get rid of Koeman and bring in the manager from Shakthar Donetsk who i think is the next big thing. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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