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On January 30 2017 14:56 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2017 12:17 cLutZ wrote:
The 3 PT line was an interesting gimmick when good players like Magic and Hakeem were bad at it. If athletic players start taking 3 pointers, it is boring. In a properly balanced situation, Lebron, Harden, Westbrook, etc would never find it worthwhile to take 3s because the EV should be lower than a shot from whatever point in or near the paint they can get to. That's never going to happen. The Tom Thibodeau defenses that pack the paint wrecks every team that doesn't have good 3-point shooters. And every athletic player growing up now knows that even being adequate on shooting the 3 opens up their drive game so much more. Lebron and Westbrook are one thing. Harden wouldn't be as effective if defenders can sag off him. Even Lebron has seasons where he's shooting the 3 well.
That is a rules problem then. The rules should incentivize dunks, contested layups, and footwork around the baseline.
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On January 30 2017 14:15 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2017 12:35 Ace wrote:On January 29 2017 23:07 Scarecrow wrote:On January 29 2017 04:21 Djagulingu wrote:On January 28 2017 21:55 Scarecrow wrote:On January 28 2017 19:26 Djagulingu wrote:On January 28 2017 19:10 RowdierBob wrote:
Conley deserved it more than Lillard and Klay imo. Tough to pick between three of them though. All have pluses and minuses. Cant believe Jordan made it over Gobert. He doesn't play for GSW, he can't deserve being an All Star more than Klay. Any other guys than them just don't deserve it at all. Big effort posting all that to make some stupid joke. I'm no fanboy by any means, but GS do have both the #1 offence and defense in the league as well as the best record. Yet you're whining they got their 4 best players in a conference team? It's hardly as biased/ridiculous as you're making it out to be. GS did deserve 3 to 4 spots. Portland sucks and Lillard's D is part of that. Conley maybe deserved it but he's just not flashy enough and is routinely overlooked. Conley maybe deserved? He's just not flashy enough? Yeah. That might be right. The season is full of flashy crossovers, dunks and assists from Klay Thompson. He's just so flashy that... He had a 60 pt game...in 29 minutes... but sure, he doesn't bring much excitement -.- The other thing you seem to forget is that Klay routinely gets defensive assignments like WB, Harden and Kyrie... He's an elite 2 way player. Lillard only plays one end of the court and that's part of the reason his team sucks. It's a tough call, but there were several deserving guys and one got the spot. You just can't see past your bias against GS. They're the best team in over a decade, and getting 4 all-star spots (especially as CP3 is hurt and Conley missed 12 games) is not a travesty by any means. Klay is definitely not an elite 2 way player. His defense has notably slipped, and while he's an elite shooter (especially spotting up) he isn't an elite offensive player. Well that's just semantics, his shooting alone is good enough to compensate for the low assists. I just think you're being pretty picky when you call someone who can put up 60 pts in 29 min and 37 in a quarter, 'not an elite offensive player'. Anyway for both it really depends how you define elite, and offensive/defensive. As for his defense how has it slipped? He still routinely guards superstars for the team with the #1 defense. The rotation's also got him playing with 2nd unit guys a lot more than last season too so that could be part of any change in his defensive numbers. Unless you're just talking about the eye test, in which case we just disagree.
In that same game he dribbled 11 times aka was set up heavily bu his teammates. I mean how long are you going to use that as a measuring stick? Are we gonna give Brandon Jennings elite offensive player tags because he gets hot too? Elite offensively are the Durants, Hardens, and Currys. Klay is no where even close to that level of offensive dominance. Put it another way - Klay isnt going to lift your teams offense to anywhere near league average without lots of help. Draymond, Steph, and Durant are far more important to the Warriors offense than Klay.
Secondly assists arent the real story (and I never mentioned them). Simply put Klay just isnt able to actually create offense for himself and others at an elite level. He has one of the highest assisted baaket rates for a gaurd in league history. There has never been a player that relies on being set up so much that has actually been elite. Youd have to be an even better shooter than Steph hitting a wild level of 3pt shots to make it so.
"He guards the best offensive player for the #1 defense!" -So? Ignore the eye test. For the second season in a row hes ranked as a minus on defense in DRPM. He has a high individual DRTG, and his shot %s defended against dont jump off the page. None of these stats are concrete at all but if hes that good he should be showing up somewhere on the map. Elite defender Klay playing with the second unit is an excuse - He plays heavily with Durant during those minutes whose a better defender. Likewise Draymond is the real defensive superstar on that team. Klay can hold his own just fine but lets stop pretending hes prine Tony Allen level. He isnt even close.
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Klay's D is overrated. I think he's very capable on ball but he can be guilty of losing his man off the ball and giving up open shots.
But I think you're under rating his offence a bit Ace. Klay is one of the most damaging off ball offensive players in the league. The fact he gets assisted a lot is pretty irrelevant in the GSW context because he is exactly what they need him to be. He warps defenses with his movement that opens up so much for curry, Durant and green to operate. They all work well off each which make them so dangerous.
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I don't think klay is elite in the ways guys like harden, LeBron, curry and Durant are but he the next best thing. He's in that Reggie Miller/Ray Allen class for me.
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I almost agree except Reggie and especially young Ray were capable creators. Prime Ray could actually handle the ball. Klay can not.
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On January 30 2017 16:25 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2017 14:56 andrewlt wrote:On January 30 2017 12:17 cLutZ wrote:
The 3 PT line was an interesting gimmick when good players like Magic and Hakeem were bad at it. If athletic players start taking 3 pointers, it is boring. In a properly balanced situation, Lebron, Harden, Westbrook, etc would never find it worthwhile to take 3s because the EV should be lower than a shot from whatever point in or near the paint they can get to. That's never going to happen. The Tom Thibodeau defenses that pack the paint wrecks every team that doesn't have good 3-point shooters. And every athletic player growing up now knows that even being adequate on shooting the 3 opens up their drive game so much more. Lebron and Westbrook are one thing. Harden wouldn't be as effective if defenders can sag off him. Even Lebron has seasons where he's shooting the 3 well. That is a rules problem then. The rules should incentivize dunks, contested layups, and footwork around the baseline.
You shoot 3s until those defenders get out of the paint. The international and college games have been ahead of the NBA in that regard. That's why there were a lot of shooters among the early European imports in the 90s and early 2000s. The NBA still has the silly defensive 3-second rule. International and college lets teams go full zone defense.
The NBA is just really behind. A lot of teams are late to the party and still haven't figured out who should be shooting 3s and who shouldn't. Then you have the Rockets who are just forcing a lot of threes.
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Other way around. The college game is far behind the NBA. Defensive 3 seconds is still needed so that we dont go to the extremely terrible days of bigs camping the paint. Some teams will def try and live 4 on 5 defensively and limit open 3s to minimize damage at the rim.
Id rather see more inside/post play as the 3pt bonanza has made some of the teams stale.
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That is kinda the fun (although the College game has rules that only work because players stink). Finishing at the rim with 4 bigs in the paint is the cool basketball skill. We want more bigs in the paint, the issue is we want the incentive to be for wings to attack into those bigs. The 3 pointer does two negative things: it gets bigs out of the paint & it makes outside shooting valuable.
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holy shit. lebron went personal on chuck wtf
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On January 31 2017 08:24 JimmiC wrote:
Been doing some daily fantasy for shits and giggles and wondering if anyone uses any sites for injury info. Some times I here about things too late just getting updates to my phone.
I think that you/JimmyJ are THE injury info of this thread.
..but I could be wrong. Split personality works in mysterious ways.
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On January 31 2017 18:25 icystorage wrote:
holy shit. lebron went personal on chuck wtf
Sensational. Lebron's best interview yet!
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I'm glad he didn't sully the discussion with things like "counter arguments" and pointless things like that.
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looks like losing is getting to LBJ. LBJ's first losing month since February 2006
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"I'm tired of biting my tongue, There's a new sheriff in town."
i wonder how the Sheriff's pals feel about LBJ describing himself as the Sheriff... because now the term "posse" fits right in.
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On January 31 2017 18:25 icystorage wrote:
holy shit. lebron went personal on chuck wtf
Some of the things Lebron said to Chuck needed saying. A lot of these old timers are very hypocritical in their stance. And a lot of it is ego bullshit because they think their era is the best.
That said, Cleveland has the highest payroll in the NBA. The Warriors, I believe, are only 8th. If Lebron is that great, he shouldn't only be able to win with the most expensive supporting cast in NBA history, right? He is playing with a no. 1 overall pick (Irving), a no. 4 overall (Thompson), a guy traded for 2 no. 1s (Love) and two guys traded for a no. 4 (JR Smith and Shumpert). Nobody in the NBA is working with more player capital in terms of money spent and draft picks than the Cavs. Not even remotely close. Other teams had to make do with cultivating lower draft picks and cheaper free agents.
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I mean. I don't really think much of what Lebron said is on point, it was mostly ad hominem attacks on Charles (probably because Lebron doesn't have any good points). Back when Phil Jackson called Lebron's boys a "posse" he was all upset about how disrespectful that is, and look at all this power in business and the NBA we have. Now his "business group that is definitely not a posse" is obviously leaking to Windhorst about how little power they have in Cleveland and the roster totally was not constructed by Lebron and his people.
Its really nuts that people don't cover Lebron like a politician: assume he is lying/hiding something until you confirm it with 2 sources.
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Chuck's response was pretty hilarious imo. Very Chuck-like.
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LeBron in full "I just don't give a fuck anymore" mode.
I love it. Surprised he hasn't bursted out like this earlier in his career.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SqNwDOn.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3eBq5gWYAAZEwv.jpg)
