EPTText and speech is in Dutch but whatever, looks great already. Oh it has subs. Good.
It's only his years at Ajax.
Alright, I'm teary eyed. Johan Cruijff forever number 14 :'(
2015 - 2016 Football Thread - Page 309
| Forum Index > Sports |
Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
Text and speech is in Dutch but whatever, looks great already. Oh it has subs. Good. It's only his years at Ajax. Alright, I'm teary eyed. Johan Cruijff forever number 14 :'( | ||
|
RvB
Netherlands6303 Posts
In hindsight it's pretty insane that Ajax won the Europa cup 1 3 times in a row. And that in a time where you had to win the league to even qualify. A league with Feyenoord which had won the Europe cup 1 in 1970 as the first Dutch club ever to win it and with players like Van Hanegem Israel and Moulijn. | ||
|
zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
| ||
|
Faruko
Chile34173 Posts
Fuck 2 forced subs in less than 18 minutes, and Argentina scores 2, those 2 subs destroyed our style  We lost | ||
|
Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On March 25 2016 06:31 zulu_nation8 wrote: \Would what he did with Ajax be like if someone carried a Belgium team to the CL title 3x in a row in today's game? Uhh interesting thought actually, but not quite. The dutch only really started playing professionally in the early 60's and Cruyf showed up pretty much immediately after. IIRC after they turned pro they were in the lower echelons of world football but they came good really fast and then just set a tradition. Belgiun or similar teams have been around a while and now the game is kinda set in its ways as far as powers are concerned. Maybe something will change that, but I doubt it will be any massive swings. Ajax ruled when the game was kinda in its infancy so everyone had the chance to rise because the sport was very fragmented. Alot of people won alot at their peaks at clubs when they revolutionized the game in some way. And the precedents that were set meant that they remained a force even after the others got caught up with the meta so to speak. And then ofcourse the meta has shifted consistently. The only really big revolution that has happened since the start of this century and kinda left these kinds of teams in the dust | ||
|
RvB
Netherlands6303 Posts
On March 25 2016 06:31 zulu_nation8 wrote: Reading his accomplishments is amazing. So he basically created La Masia and Ajax youth systems, and is the biggest influence on the style of the Spanish Euro and WC winning sides and Barcelona of the last twenty or so years. Would what he did with Ajax be like if someone carried a Belgium team to the CL title 3x in a row in today's game? No not really. The Ajax team in those years was actually pretty insane. Players Krol, Neeskens, Rep, Swart, Keizer and Mühren are still considered legends in Dutch football.In fact their used to be huge arguments about who was the better player, Keizer or Cruijff (though nowadays nobody except Ajax fans remember Keizer). edit: Also pretty funny that people still don't really know how to write his name. It's Cruijff but even when he made his debut newspapers would write it in all kinds of ways like Cruijff/Cruyf/Cruyff. | ||
|
smr
Germany4808 Posts
What is necessary for it to happen? + Show Spoiler + Bayern would need to agree on that transfer. They normally do not strengthen national competitors but I can still see it happen if Götze says he'll only go to Dortmund. He costs around 12m€/year and if Dortmund say "we'll not make him our record transfer - 20m€ and we're fine" that still free up 32m€ for Bayern. 32m€ for somebody who barely played the last year and who's chances decrease every day because Ribery, Robben, Costa, Coman, Müller are all preferred as wingers. Why would it make sense for Dortmund? + Show Spoiler + Dortmunds bench is pretty weak and behind Mkhitaryan the whole offensive midfield is too inconsistent. It's hard to be worse than Kagawa right now. Castro is hit or miss. Mkhitaryan might want to leave. Pulisic will take another year. Something needs to happen. Lots of our players know Götze, he's used to the city, he could be pretty cheap for a player of his potential. Why it could be bad for Dortmund. + Show Spoiler + 1. The transfer would require a huge marketing stunt. A facebook/Instagram post by Götze wouldn't be enough. He would need to step in front of cameras/the crowd and say sorry no matter if he means it or not. If you look at it his story wasn't so different from Sahins but he went to our biggest competitor which is why lots of fans are angry. 2. Götze changed as a player. He might be fantastic but he isn't the same guy he was when he left. Is our management able to rate him and his skills correctly or do they just remember the 2013 version? (Dumb argument because they are professionals but when you bought 2 players who left you a few years ago it has to be made.) It's all about Tuchel here. Immobile was the perfect player for Klopps 2012 BVB but in 2015 he was a total failure. The question is not how good Götze possibly is/was but: Does he fit the system Tuchel wants to play in Dortmund next year? 3. I often read that Götze is a lot more sensitive than you would think just looking at his social media. And he needs a positive and trusting environment. He could very well break under the pressure the stadium is definitely going to create atleast the first 3-5 games. 4. Even if Götze would accept a 30% reduction of his München-base salary he'll still be a financial risk. Why would it make sense for Götze? + Show Spoiler + 1. I read quite a few times that Ancelotti doesn't want him. 2. There aren't too many clubs who can offer what he most likely wants -> CL (maybe EL) / money / regular playing time. France: PSG won't be interested after his performances those last 2 years. Spain: Barca + Real won't be interested. That leaves Atletico. I'm not sure he'll fit there. Italy: Only option is Juve and Götze years ago said that he doesn't want to go to Serie A iirc. England: Leicester - nope. West Ham - nope. Spurs - I doubt it. City=pep - no, United - I doubt Mourinho wants a Götze who hasn't done anything remarkable for years. Liverpool - very good option should they reach EL. He knows Klopp, the language barrier should be a lot lower than in spain and there are other players who speak German. Arsenal - Absolutely viable option imo. Coach speaks German etc. They just can't win a trophy. Chelsea - they'll want to compete for the title again and buying a player who has close to no confidence doesn't help with that. And he's worse than Hazard. Germany: Dortmund as a club works, but the fans might be a problem. Wolfsburg - nope. Worse city than Dortmund and with the recent VW problems they might not be able to afford him. RB Leipzig - not as long as he is the only big player. What I think + Show Spoiler + 1. I love Sahin, Kagawa is great and I like that we're giving second chances to parts of our family. That said I'd love if we gave chances to another player. Doesn't have to be a 2m€ Weigl, could also be a 13m€ Aubameyang. Somebody who'll think: Damn those guys want me? That's one hell of a chance and I'll totally win their hearts. 2. BUT Götze is only 23 and if he signed a 5 year treaty without a buyout clause he could be a huge step forward. If we look at a price of 20-25m€ and compare his achievements to those of Depay who was more expensive you realize that it is not the worst business. And another BUT: I don't think he is so strong that you cannot find anybody close to his skills. He gained a lot of muscle, which overall might have strengthened him but decreased some of his most important traits from years ago - agility for example. At least that is my impression. I'd rather gamble with an 18 and a 20yr old who fight to start their career and end up 15 points behind Bayern than taking Götze back and end up 5 points behind them. 3. Andreas Möller did about the same thing Götze did and when he came back he was one of the big reasons we won the CL. This is nothing new for a BVB fan. It's the most recent thing and as the club build up his "love" strategy it most likey was the most emotional transfer-case of recent club history but it has happened before. In the end it's all about the club. Look at our 06/07 roster. God we had so many awful players but I always cheered for them. It's my club and whoever tries his best will have my support. 4. I dislike Götze as a person. His championship video from last year and a bunch of other things could just be a social media show but I don't know. I prefer a Mkhi who's calm and intelligent who has more things in life than football. Or Auba who seems to make a show out of everything but who just likes to wear weird things and who is always happy. He doesn't demonstrate happiness for anybody he's just such a positive person. I can see nothing of that in Götze (which might be a misinterpretation). TLDR: I don't want to see Götze in Dortmund again but I realize that under the right circumstances he could be a financially viable option to strengthen the squad. If management and team decide that they want him to play in our jersey I'll support him. Life's too short and too wonderful to be mad about some 20yr olds decision for 5 years. Our management has to care for the clubs success. And that means that they cannot act as passionate as fans do. If they see Götze as the best way to improve they'll try to go for him. PS: Götze sucks! | ||
|
zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
| ||
|
smr
Germany4808 Posts
That said I'd like to see him get 3 or 4 90min matches in the last league games. Let him score twice, assist twice, carry that confidence boost through the summer and he might just turn up as Superman next season. He started to regularly work with the 1st team during winter and whenever he plays you notice that he's still not fully integrated into the tactical scheme but he takes 1on1s and has a few good ideas. I'm not sure if he can establish himself in Dortmund in the long-term but if he keeps working he's on the best way to become a regular in atleast an EL-team. | ||
|
sharkie
Austria18713 Posts
I wouldn't take Götze back even if some oracle would promise me CL and Bundesliga wins for the next few years. He's an ass who allowed Bayern to tell the whole world that they signed him before he told any of his friends and fans (in Dortmund). | ||
|
Skynx
Turkey7150 Posts
On March 26 2016 23:48 sharkie wrote: Götze sucks, indeed! I wouldn't take Götze back even if some oracle would promise me CL and Bundesliga wins for the next few years. He's an ass who allowed Bayern to tell the whole world that they signed him before he told any of his friends and fans (in Dortmund). You just summed up the dota2 drama thats been going on for few days haha | ||
|
Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On March 26 2016 06:24 smr wrote: Rumors about Götze to Dortmund not slowing down these days. Maybe we could say that they became even more serious as Freddie Röckenhaus, SZ-Journalist who's really close to Watzke and the rest of the BVB management, started talking about that option and he like never said anything about the club which wasn't atleast discussed as a viable option for the club. I'd like to talk about my thoughts but I'm afraid it'll lack enough structure. Please bear with me. What is necessary for it to happen? + Show Spoiler + Bayern would need to agree on that transfer. They normally do not strengthen national competitors but I can still see it happen if Götze says he'll only go to Dortmund. He costs around 12m€/year and if Dortmund say "we'll not make him our record transfer - 20m€ and we're fine" that still free up 32m€ for Bayern. 32m€ for somebody who barely played the last year and who's chances decrease every day because Ribery, Robben, Costa, Coman, Müller are all preferred as wingers. Why would it make sense for Dortmund? + Show Spoiler + Dortmunds bench is pretty weak and behind Mkhitaryan the whole offensive midfield is too inconsistent. It's hard to be worse than Kagawa right now. Castro is hit or miss. Mkhitaryan might want to leave. Pulisic will take another year. Something needs to happen. Lots of our players know Götze, he's used to the city, he could be pretty cheap for a player of his potential. Why it could be bad for Dortmund. + Show Spoiler + 1. The transfer would require a huge marketing stunt. A facebook/Instagram post by Götze wouldn't be enough. He would need to step in front of cameras/the crowd and say sorry no matter if he means it or not. If you look at it his story wasn't so different from Sahins but he went to our biggest competitor which is why lots of fans are angry. 2. Götze changed as a player. He might be fantastic but he isn't the same guy he was when he left. Is our management able to rate him and his skills correctly or do they just remember the 2013 version? (Dumb argument because they are professionals but when you bought 2 players who left you a few years ago it has to be made.) It's all about Tuchel here. Immobile was the perfect player for Klopps 2012 BVB but in 2015 he was a total failure. The question is not how good Götze possibly is/was but: Does he fit the system Tuchel wants to play in Dortmund next year? 3. I often read that Götze is a lot more sensitive than you would think just looking at his social media. And he needs a positive and trusting environment. He could very well break under the pressure the stadium is definitely going to create atleast the first 3-5 games. 4. Even if Götze would accept a 30% reduction of his München-base salary he'll still be a financial risk. Why would it make sense for Götze? + Show Spoiler + 1. I read quite a few times that Ancelotti doesn't want him. 2. There aren't too many clubs who can offer what he most likely wants -> CL (maybe EL) / money / regular playing time. France: PSG won't be interested after his performances those last 2 years. Spain: Barca + Real won't be interested. That leaves Atletico. I'm not sure he'll fit there. Italy: Only option is Juve and Götze years ago said that he doesn't want to go to Serie A iirc. England: Leicester - nope. West Ham - nope. Spurs - I doubt it. City=pep - no, United - I doubt Mourinho wants a Götze who hasn't done anything remarkable for years. Liverpool - very good option should they reach EL. He knows Klopp, the language barrier should be a lot lower than in spain and there are other players who speak German. Arsenal - Absolutely viable option imo. Coach speaks German etc. They just can't win a trophy. Chelsea - they'll want to compete for the title again and buying a player who has close to no confidence doesn't help with that. And he's worse than Hazard. Germany: Dortmund as a club works, but the fans might be a problem. Wolfsburg - nope. Worse city than Dortmund and with the recent VW problems they might not be able to afford him. RB Leipzig - not as long as he is the only big player. What I think + Show Spoiler + 1. I love Sahin, Kagawa is great and I like that we're giving second chances to parts of our family. That said I'd love if we gave chances to another player. Doesn't have to be a 2m€ Weigl, could also be a 13m€ Aubameyang. Somebody who'll think: Damn those guys want me? That's one hell of a chance and I'll totally win their hearts. 2. BUT Götze is only 23 and if he signed a 5 year treaty without a buyout clause he could be a huge step forward. If we look at a price of 20-25m€ and compare his achievements to those of Depay who was more expensive you realize that it is not the worst business. And another BUT: I don't think he is so strong that you cannot find anybody close to his skills. He gained a lot of muscle, which overall might have strengthened him but decreased some of his most important traits from years ago - agility for example. At least that is my impression. I'd rather gamble with an 18 and a 20yr old who fight to start their career and end up 15 points behind Bayern than taking Götze back and end up 5 points behind them. 3. Andreas Möller did about the same thing Götze did and when he came back he was one of the big reasons we won the CL. This is nothing new for a BVB fan. It's the most recent thing and as the club build up his "love" strategy it most likey was the most emotional transfer-case of recent club history but it has happened before. In the end it's all about the club. Look at our 06/07 roster. God we had so many awful players but I always cheered for them. It's my club and whoever tries his best will have my support. 4. I dislike Götze as a person. His championship video from last year and a bunch of other things could just be a social media show but I don't know. I prefer a Mkhi who's calm and intelligent who has more things in life than football. Or Auba who seems to make a show out of everything but who just likes to wear weird things and who is always happy. He doesn't demonstrate happiness for anybody he's just such a positive person. I can see nothing of that in Götze (which might be a misinterpretation). TLDR: I don't want to see Götze in Dortmund again but I realize that under the right circumstances he could be a financially viable option to strengthen the squad. If management and team decide that they want him to play in our jersey I'll support him. Life's too short and too wonderful to be mad about some 20yr olds decision for 5 years. Our management has to care for the clubs success. And that means that they cannot act as passionate as fans do. If they see Götze as the best way to improve they'll try to go for him. PS: Götze sucks! I don't see why Mkhitaryan would want to leave. He's been phenomenal and all of his statements point to the fact that he's loving it here. He's becoming the bedrock of our attack, almost moreso than Reus (mostly because of the latter's injuries). As for Götze, I'm extremely skeptical, but open to arguments. As you've pointed out, his history is very patchy and he hasn't been playing well recently; however, that doesn't mean he isn't good and we clearly need some extra depth in the attacking midfield. Kagawa and Castro aren't terrible (even if both have been disappointing), but I still think that Götze would instantly vault himself above both in the depth chart. We'll just have to see what kind of price we're looking at as well. We basically need to obtain more depth at every position, possibly replace Gündogan, and see some improvements in the DM/defense starting positions if we really want to take that next step next year. | ||
|
smr
Germany4808 Posts
On March 27 2016 00:48 Stratos_speAr wrote: I don't see why Mkhitaryan would want to leave. He's been phenomenal and all of his statements point to the fact that he's loving it here. He's becoming the bedrock of our attack, almost moreso than Reus (mostly because of the latter's injuries). As for Götze, I'm extremely skeptical, but open to arguments. As you've pointed out, his history is very patchy and he hasn't been playing well recently; however, that doesn't mean he isn't good and we clearly need some extra depth in the attacking midfield. Kagawa and Castro aren't terrible (even if both have been disappointing), but I still think that Götze would instantly vault himself above both in the depth chart. We'll just have to see what kind of price we're looking at as well. We basically need to obtain more depth at every position, possibly replace Gündogan, and see some improvements in the DM/defense starting positions if we really want to take that next step next year. I agree on Mkhitaryan. He seems really happy and if I had to guess why he hasn't extended his contract yet than I'd say because of some standard negotiation-things. Maybe he wanted to be 100% sure to play CL next year no idea. But from the big 3 who's contracts run out in 2017 (Mkhi, Hummels, Gündogan) he seems to be the one most likely to stay. We haven't heard of a lot of interest from bigger clubs than Dortmund and only if he wants to learn his 25th language or live in another country again to get to know another culture I could imagine him leaving. Pretty sure we'll get him on Reus level moneywise and he'll stay. But as I cannot be sure I couldn't leave him out. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
There's a hurricane in Berlin!!!! | ||
|
smr
Germany4808 Posts
On March 27 2016 04:28 Pandemona wrote: Germany vs England LIVE!! In 15 minutes!!! There's a hurricane in Berlin!!!! Rooting for the refs. Black and Yellow ftw. | ||
|
Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
I would like to apologize for any cases of eye cancer caused by the german kits. | ||
|
smr
Germany4808 Posts
| ||
|
mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
Excitement! Why even have those friendlies, when nobody is showing any effort? e: As I say it, we get the first balls into the box. Woah! Are we starting to play footie? | ||
|
Twoflowers
Germany241 Posts
| ||
|
Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
| ||
| ||
