On February 24 2015 20:43 Pandemona wrote: What your saying every Chelsea player dives? Wtf Costa has been booked 3 times for "dives" in which every single time it was a penalty. Cahill dived vs Spurs should have got his 2nd yellow but he didn't appeal for that penalty which i assume saved him. Ivanovic is the other who might have dived i think. Not the whole team that is totally stupid accusation.
Everyone challenges most red card decisions. Every club, whether you're QPR or Man Utd they challenge red cards in England even the ones people think are actually red cards they challenge them. That is not going to stop at all.
I also know football is for men, i watch Hazard get kicked off the pitch in Paris and week in week out in the premier league. He doesn't complain he gets on with it. Most of our players play hard too, Ivanovic JT etc. But when they step out of line that get punished for being to aggressive.
Also you still not understanding EVERY manager complains about referee's whether it is Conference North or Premier league. It just doesn't get seen as much the lower division and the higher up you go the more papered it is. Mourinho this year has had a lot of bad decisions go against his team, but he is combating that with expressing these opinions as much as he can to make refs aware of it psychologically. However this so far has done the opposite and the referee's chelsea have had have been even worse than normal. Add into the fact that there has been so many bad decisions this season that the standard of refereeing has dropped.
Its not just Chelsea though. If we could change ref's decisions, how many bookings for diving would happen post match? How many other bookable offences would you find? Should it only apply to straight red cards? If we're going to change the rules it shouldn't be because "moan, moan, moan" it should be because the rules are unfair. You're sitting there in the position of a Chelsea fan moaning about this right now, but would you think it was fair if all of a sudden a we went back 5 years, found every red card JT should have had and applied his punishments in succession? He would never play again. And before you comment, i use JT as an example because you're a Chelsea fan, not because he's worse or better than anyone else. This applies to every team, Chelsea aren't special, i just used them as an example. I could probably go back and look at any game this season and find reasons for the majority of the players to be booked. Football is full of constant fouling, cheating, diving off the ball incidents etc. You can't go back and re-referee games. This has been decided long ago by the FA and it still applies now for a reason.
I agree with most of what you're saying in this post though. It still doesn't change anything i'm saying though. I do understand that most manager's put pressure on refs, but Mourihno is just as bad as Ferguson was.
Scotland introduced this rule that the Scottish FA are allowed to go back and hand out retrospective punishment even if the ref seen it etc. They then started it and it has been working? i don't know don't follow Scottish football much but i haven't heard anything bad.
Just seems an awful waste of time for this debate to happen everytime something silly happens. A player gets away with scratching or pushing someone. Then another player gets banned for 3-5 games for doing the same thing. Thats what is wrong with the referees in this country. They are not CONSISTENT at all.
How come one red card be given out retrospectively and another not. How can a guy have his over turned red and the other not. All i want is consistency the worse problem is with handballs because FIFA and the FA fail to make a ruling or strict process to follow.
Retrospective action is always the best way, you have to draw a line with what you retrospectively take action for. Afaik the Scottish FA decided not to do "Dives" because there's quite a few cases where you are not 100% certain if there is contact or not. That being said you can still do it and at least punish the blatant ones. I also am struggling to understand your point about going back and banning everyone who did something in the past. That is not how this works due to how laws work. If it starts from next season, then everyone starts a fresh, then it is no problem. When people know the rule/law then if they break it they are punished. It's like you wouldn't go back to 1950s or whatever and give speeding tickets or tickets for not wearing a seatbelt because that is what the norm was back then. (bad example i know but best i could do )
Hand ball for me is when you make yourself bigger or your arms are in an unnatural position and it blocks the ball. Whether you are 10ft away or 10 inches. If your arms out not by your sides or in a position of balance it should be given. But what we get is sometimes its given sometimes its not.
Oh well MAYBE this will be the time we start getting these decisions in the next few games :D
Honestly Pandemona you have to admit that technology is the only way here. If you rely on a bunch of different humans to make decisions there will be inconsistencies, massive ones. Even with the same rule set, you can't say that the referees aren't trying to stick to the rules. They miss things, they make bad choices and they are as susceptible to optical illusions as the rest of us.
What do i mean by 'optical illusions'? Well its simple. One thing was never discussed about the (obvious) handball penalty for Chelsea the other day. You see Shearer on match of the day show a clip that shows the ref had a 'clear view' of the incident. All they mean by this is that his view wasn't blocked. However, the defender's arm was stuck out point directly towards the ref's face. So what does the ref see? He sees the ball hit the defender, somewhere between his lower arm and neck, but has no way of telling which. Obviously he got it wrong, he couldn't be 100% sure. I know a way he could have been 100% sure, and Chelsea would have got their penalty.
Technology needs to happen, to clean up the game, to help the refs, and to stop both players and managers dishonestly putting pressure on refs by encouraging /partaking in the worst kind of deliberate cheating.
So OK, every player in the EPL who has pressured a ref to give a yellow gets now gets a booking from today, ok? This is retrospective action, no? Or do we draw the line at 'only things that have happened against Chelsea?'
I have to agree, inconsistency in refereeing is simply because human beings have imperfect information and therefore make mistakes.
Technology used effectively is the key.
And Pande please stop ranting. No one is disagreeing that some of the decisions werent harsh but because one guy robs a bank and gets away doesnt mean you dont throw the other bank robber in jail.
It would easier to take it seriously if it wasnt agenda driven because blowing up about it to suit your narrative is hypocritical.
Yeah i agree with the technology argument 100%, Mourinho even said in the goals on sunday interview/whatever you want to call it. He wants it to help the referee's and so do i. So do most people probably who like football. The issue of course then becomes FIFA/FA who seem to be stubborn to introduce the rule set. Maybe financially it is expensive to do so and again the lower divisions will probably not be able to have this, just the same with goal line technology. But in the big tournaments, the best leagues i dont understand why not.
I do understand that not everyone is perfect and mistakes will be made, but it is alot of mistakes this year, not just for Chelsea but for the whole league itself. Seems that when Mr Webb retired this season everything has gone to shit
Oh well, lets hope fixes happen and help is given.
On February 24 2015 21:15 Rebs wrote: I have to agree, inconsistency in refereeing is simply because human beings have imperfect information and therefore make mistakes.
Technology used effectively is the key.
And Pande please stop ranting. No one is disagreeing that some of the decisions werent harsh but because one guy robs a bank and gets away doesnt mean you dont throw the other bank robber in jail.
It would easier to take it seriously if it wasnt agenda driven because blowing up about it to suit your narrative is hypocritical.
No im defending, all i have been doing is defending. People posting saying that the tackle on Matic was not a red card. Im adding facts to the discussion that i think he did it on purpose. Mainly due to what happened during the game. Yet everyone then starts pulling up tackles Chelsea players did saying "this is worst" "this went unpunished" which has no relevance on right now or the fact Burnley got lucky, which happens. Then the most annoying part is that everyone in football punditry calls it horrific and the FA say na, not doing anything about it. I do agree it sounds annoying to those who don't care BUT there is alot of people giving their 2 cents worth i wanted too as well :D
Lets all jump threads anyway and i'll get the previews starting for City vs Barca and Dortmund vs Juventus.
The one thing that definitely does need to be reviewed after the fact is diving. It's disgraceful and continues to hurt the integrity of the game. Both the NBA and NHL regularly penalize players during the game and/or fine them hefty sums after the game and it works pretty damn well.
On February 24 2015 22:34 Stratos_speAr wrote: The one thing that definitely does need to be reviewed after the fact is diving. It's disgraceful and continues to hurt the integrity of the game. Both the NBA and NHL regularly penalize players during the game and/or fine them hefty sums after the game and it works pretty damn well.
Fines are not enough imo. It needs to be suspensions + fines. Not like players dont flop because of a fine or 2. And theres alot less at stake when your flopping, most of the time anyway. With dives the stakes are higher so the punishment should be higher.
And it has to be really clear cut dives. Going down easy under contact would be unfair to
On February 24 2015 22:34 Stratos_speAr wrote: The one thing that definitely does need to be reviewed after the fact is diving. It's disgraceful and continues to hurt the integrity of the game. Both the NBA and NHL regularly penalize players during the game and/or fine them hefty sums after the game and it works pretty damn well.
I think massive and expensive punishments for anyone who is caught in a clear and obvious dive would do the trick. This means they would have had to not: a) caught their own feet up or made contact between one foot and the other b) caught the floor with one of their feet c) the opponent obviously couldn't make any contact at all By massive and expensive i mean a long ban - around 5 games - and a fine. Also if a team has more than 2 players punished in a season the club should receive an extra punishment including maybe a manager touchline ban.
The problem is I know the way FIFA works and they would never allow it. If you do this now, you have to admit that diving is a problem, and FIFA can never admit that they allowed a problem to go unsolved for so long, no matter how obvious it is to everyone else.
Premier League chief executive Richard Scudamore says major European clubs are "very disappointed" by a FIFA task recommendation to play the 2022 World Cup in Qatar in November/December.
Yeah its going to be pretty shit not going to lie Going to be the weirdest year of football ever haha. Will assume that the domestic seasons are going to start later? End of August, then play up until like June? :S maybe even July? Surely they would not let it play out at the same time
Each and every club and national league would have the power to take out their teams/club players out of this WC to protest against it. But no one has done, no one even threatened Fifa with it. I love how Rummenige is one of the one whining about it when it's known that he has tons of friends in Qatar lol.
This time Qatar bribed the others enough that everyone will be fine with the 2022 Qatar. Football is becoming more and more a joke.
On February 25 2015 01:29 sharkie wrote: What a huge farce by all.
Each and every club and national league would have the power to take out their teams/club players out of this WC to protest against it. But no one has done, no one even threatened Fifa with it. I love how Rummenige is one of the one whining about it when it's known that he has tons of friends in Qatar lol.
This time Qatar bribed the others enough that everyone will be fine with the 2022 Qatar. Football is becoming more and more a joke.
I don't think clubs do have this power. WestHham where fined for playing one of their players when he claimed to be too injurred to play in the African Cup of Nations
On February 25 2015 01:29 sharkie wrote: What a huge farce by all.
Each and every club and national league would have the power to take out their teams/club players out of this WC to protest against it. But no one has done, no one even threatened Fifa with it. I love how Rummenige is one of the one whining about it when it's known that he has tons of friends in Qatar lol.
This time Qatar bribed the others enough that everyone will be fine with the 2022 Qatar. Football is becoming more and more a joke.
I don't think clubs do have this power. WestHham where fined for playing one of their players when he claimed to be too injurred to play in the African Cup of Nations
Clubs are fined like mad even if they think about not sending a player on national duty, it falls on national FA's tbh.
Yeah this is ridiculous. They totally bought this one. Quite the farce. Football may not be a joke but the people running it certainly are. Its so brazen its shocking. Lots of deep pockets at work here. Atleast we can get a laugh out of it
I still cant believe they bothered to build a damn stadium in Manaus.
I especially like the quote from the Qatarians (is that how you say it) where they say 'it's in everybodies best interest'. Otherwise translated as it's in nobodies interest at all except theirs.
Lets go Australia, lets go UEFA Champions League, lets go leagues, lets go clubs. Lets sue the shit out if FIFA. For denying you chances because of "its too hot in the Australian summer", for shreding all shedules (no boxing day is huge) and for making the years around that redicules in terms of transfer windows.
On February 25 2015 02:09 Micro_Jackson wrote: Lets go Australia, lets go UEFA Champions League, lets go leagues, lets go clubs. Lets sue the shit out if FIFA. For denying you chances because of "its too hot in the Australian summer", for shreding all shedules (no boxing day is huge) and for making the years around that redicules in terms of transfer windows.
Uhmmm, Australian summer is like Nov/Dec to Jan/Feb. Did someone really make that argument ?
The farce is giving the WC to Qatar. Playing it in the winter is the only real option. You can cool stadiums all you want but for the fans outside the summer heat is simply too dangerous.
Manchester United manager Louis van Gaal criticised by Southampton boss Ronald Koeman
Koeman, who spent two years as Van Gaal’s assistant at Barcelona between 1998 and 2000, insists their styles are in complete contrast to each other, and that his former mentor's ego leads to clashes with his players.
Koeman, whose Saints side beat United at Old Trafford last month, also revealed the Netherlands Football Association had to employ a “softer” manager in Guus Hiddink to succeed Van Gaal following last year’s World Cup.
Speaking to Dutch television, Koeman said: “When you bring in Van Gaal you bring in quality but you also bring in someone who thinks he knows everything and that will cause clashes.
“When you have Van Gaal in charge, it is a fact that there is fear in his team and that is not always good.
"I was his assistant at Barcelona after the World Cup in 1998 and I learned a lot of things from him, but there is a big difference between him and me as managers.
“The way he handles his players is totally different. I don’t put as much pressure on the shoulders of my players.
“After Van Gaal coached the Dutch national team at the World Cup, the Dutch federation had to bring in a manager who would bring in a softer touch. The players needed an arm around their shoulder, someone calmer.”
EPT
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