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warding
Portugal2397 Posts
On January 13 2015 20:41 sharkie wrote: Midfielders are most important in football by far. They hold everything together Yup, and that's consistent with the most expensive transfers ever: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_association_football_transfers Sideshow Bob Luiz is the only defender among the most expensive transfers. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
I think attackers benefit from being able to capitalise on moments of brilliance, while defenders are rewarded for constant performance. Imo that's also why attackers sometimes make horrible defensive decisions, their risky style of play isn't rewarded in defensive positions. On the other hand, defenders won't be able to break tight defences on their own, because their decent play isn't volatile enough to have enough of an effect. Returning to the ballon d'or, risky and volatile play will be remembered longer than good defensive work. When an attacker performs well, one says he absolutely dominated the field (for example). When a defender plays well, you'll often hear that the attacking player was invisible. Of course, good defending does get credit, but generally people will remember it less. And I think that is justified. As a consequence of this 'theory', the most extraordinary plays are generally made by attacking players, due to their style. | ||
Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Serpest
United States603 Posts
On January 13 2015 21:46 SatedSC2 wrote: Said it before: Neuer is a better goalkeeper than Messi/Ronaldo are forwards. Messi/Ronaldo compete with each other. Who competes with Neuer? Nobody competes with Neuer. They can't give a ballon d'or to Neuer. They didn't give one to Buffon. | ||
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Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
On January 13 2015 21:46 SatedSC2 wrote: Said it before: Neuer is a better goalkeeper than Messi/Ronaldo are forwards. Messi/Ronaldo compete with each other. Who competes with Neuer? Nobody competes with Neuer. This is bollocks. Defending takes a completely different skill-set to playing in a forward role. Directly comparing the two is ridiculous. No it's not. Being a good defender is easier than being a good attacker. That's not to say that any good attackers can be a good defender or anything, but it's just how it is. This is especially true for the PL btw where defenders have no idea what to do when they get the ball. They're completely clueless on the ball while off the ball they're good at standing in the way or heading the ball away. Not hard compared to the fluid combinations or dribbling skill or finishing skill you need as a midfielder/attacker. There's a reason why midfielders/attackers cost more money. And to your other point, it's pretty clear that you're overhyping Neuer. Yeah he's a great goalkeeper but 8 months ago all the rave was about Thiboaut (sp) Courtois and those other World Cup goalkeepers. Messi/Ronaldo have been on top by quite a distance for 6 years or whatever. No-one comes close to what they achieve every year. People have just gotten used to it by now so they take their numbers for granted. Then when they score slightly less or have an off year they're suddenly 'bad' by some people while they're still miles above anyone else even in their off-season. But I do agree that goalkeepers can't be compared to field players though. | ||
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
 ![[image loading]](http://isport.ua/uf/images2/ronaldoroche.jpg) | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
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Ysellian
Netherlands9029 Posts
On January 13 2015 22:05 Twisted wrote: No it's not. Being a good defender is easier than being a good attacker. That's not to say that any good attackers can be a good defender or anything, but it's just how it is. This is especially true for the PL btw where defenders have no idea what to do when they get the ball. They're completely clueless on the ball while off the ball they're good at standing in the way or heading the ball away. Not hard compared to the fluid combinations or dribbling skill or finishing skill you need as a midfielder/attacker. There's a reason why midfielders/attackers cost more money. And to your other point, it's pretty clear that you're overhyping Neuer. Yeah he's a great goalkeeper but 8 months ago all the rave was about Thiboaut (sp) Courtois and those other World Cup goalkeepers. Messi/Ronaldo have been on top by quite a distance for 6 years or whatever. No-one comes close to what they achieve every year. People have just gotten used to it by now so they take their numbers for granted. Then when they score slightly less or have an off year they're suddenly 'bad' by some people while they're still miles above anyone else even in their off-season. But I do agree that goalkeepers can't be compared to field players though. Going by simplistic comparisons PL defenders have no idea what do when they get the ball, but traditional PL wingers don't even look when they cross. You telling me that running past a player and crossing the ball in a general area is in any way more difficult than just standing in the way of a ball? Both just require a physical advantage over another. To me attackers are better than defenders because there is simply far more competition. For kids playing as a midfielder is great because you are constantly on the ball, while being an attacker you do shit all game and get all the praise when you score. Defenders just concede and get shat on. But you see with today's game and Pep's revolution, defenders are becoming better and better because being a central defender is also becoming much more interesting. | ||
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Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
On January 13 2015 23:08 Ysellian wrote: You telling me that running past a player and crossing the ball in a general area is in any way more difficult than just standing in the way of a ball? Both just require a physical advantage over another. To me attackers are better than defenders because there is simply far more competition. For kids playing as a midfielder is great because you are constantly on the ball, while being an attacker you do shit all game and get all the praise when you score. Defenders just concede and get shat on. But you see with today's game and Pep's revolution, defenders are becoming better and better because being a central defender is also becoming much more interesting. Traditional wingers are pretty much extinct, but giving a perfect cross (Beckham for example) is pretty damn hard to do on a regular basis. And I'm not saying wingers for example aren't better than all defenders, just that the best wingers (Ronaldo, Hazard, Neymar) are better than the best defenders at football. Yeah like I said, kids want to play midfield and attack because of the reasons you stated. I wholly agree. That's why those that can't, turn into defenders. We'll see what happens to your point about Pep's revolution and stuff though. Could be true. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
Such respect! | ||
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Ysellian
Netherlands9029 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Now i concede that maybe being the "best" midfielder vs the "best" defender there could be a greater gap, but being an average midfielder (Carrick/Busquets kind of players that do some things well) is easier than being a good centre back or defender. You have to read more than just the game when defending, you have to make sure you are in the correct spot and time your tackle to the maximum or you are going to fail and punish your team more than if you waste away a pass in the middle of the pitch, or over hit a 20 yard pass out of play. Also add in what Ysellian saying where now on top of being a great defender you now have to be able to spread the ball 40 yards to feet and be comfortable passing around the opposition, ha. Crazy! | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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zeo
Serbia6343 Posts
On January 13 2015 23:20 Steveling wrote: Ibra voted for messi first for the 6th year in a row. Such respect! Messi voted for Mourinho #foreshadow | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
While Messi's and CR's votes have always been terribly biased, Neymar showed some class too by voting CR on second place. | ||
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hootsushi
Germany3468 Posts
On January 13 2015 21:49 Serpest wrote: They can't give a ballon d'or to Neuer. They didn't give one to Buffon. Just because they made a mistake in the past doesn't mean they have to repeat it over and over again. Then again, it's fifa, so they probably will. | ||
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warding
Portugal2397 Posts
On January 13 2015 21:15 Yorbon wrote: Attackers benefit from high risk high reward situations, defenders from low risk low reward situations. For example, a winger may be tempted to try to trick their opponents. If it works, it's a potential chance on goal. If it doesn't, you'll lose the ball and nothing really happens. If a defender (or rather someone in a defensive position) tries to get the ball from an opponent , he won't get any reward for it's riskiness, while a risky manoeuvre does increase the chance of giving a chance to the opponent. I think attackers benefit from being able to capitalise on moments of brilliance, while defenders are rewarded for constant performance. Imo that's also why attackers sometimes make horrible defensive decisions, their risky style of play isn't rewarded in defensive positions. On the other hand, defenders won't be able to break tight defences on their own, because their decent play isn't volatile enough to have enough of an effect. Returning to the ballon d'or, risky and volatile play will be remembered longer than good defensive work. When an attacker performs well, one says he absolutely dominated the field (for example). When a defender plays well, you'll often hear that the attacking player was invisible. Of course, good defending does get credit, but generally people will remember it less. And I think that is justified. As a consequence of this 'theory', the most extraordinary plays are generally made by attacking players, due to their style. Interestingly, the market value of David Luiz, one of the most risk taking defenders of all time, fits well with this theory. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18725 Posts
On January 13 2015 23:41 Ysellian wrote: Yeah, we'll see. At least you see with Pep that defenders have started being far more active in regular play than they used to. Passing the ball out of pressure and keeping possession as opposed to hoofing the ball is pretty difficult to do considering that a mistake is likely a goal, yet we are seeing this development more and more. Pique used to be very comfortable on the ball, and regularly start up attacks for Barcelona. At the very least you'll see kids choosing to be defenders rather just being force to be one haha. You do know that the only reason Pique was able to start was Puyol? Puyol had the world class quality of two centerbacks but without Puyol Pique's "abilities" would have never be seen so often. I agree that there is a trend to CBs having more impact in the midfield nowadays but it is still only the second most important ability of a CB and not the first which is defending. No one would trade Puyol for Pique, not even Pep. | ||
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